How many cyclists not wearing helmets have been killed?



Buck wrote:
> So best to stick to questions about chain oil and carrot cake.


Don't be ridiculous: carrot cake would be inedible with chain oil in.

A
 
"Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Alan Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Alan Holmes said the following on 15/01/2007 12:54:
>>>
>>>> I was serious, I wonder whether the fuss about helmets is worth while,
>>>> for about a hundred years cyclist have not worn helmets, so why have
>>>> they
>>>> suddenly appeared?
>>>
>>> Please - rather than stir up this always-heated discussion again, have a
>>> look back through the many, many threads on this subject.

>
>> I wasn't aware that there had been any threads on this subject!

>
> Have you mentioned this kind of thing to your doctor?


What doctor?

>
> --
> Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
> IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
> [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
>
 
"Tim Dunne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Alan Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%%[email protected]
>
>> how many times will I fall off a cycle and damage my head?

>
> That would depend on the relative density of the brain concerned.


Thick!

>
> HTH
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Sent from Birmingham, UK... Check out www.nervouscyclist.org
> 'I find sometimes it’s easy to be myself, but sometimes I find it’s
> better to be somebody else.' - Dave Matthews 'So Much To Say'
> My 'reply to' address is valid, mail to the posting address is dumped
>
>
 
"bugbear" <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Alan Holmes wrote:
>>
>> You seem not to understand what I am asking, it's very simple really, am
>> I at more risk when not wearing a helmet than when wearing one, how many
>> times will I fall off a cycle and damage my head?

>
> I suggest a controlled experiment on your part.
>
> Report back here with your findings, for
> the general good.


I don't think I will try, thank you!

>
> BugBear
 
"Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:21:31 GMT, Alan Holmes <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> You seem not to understand what I am asking, it's very simple really, am
>> I
>> at more risk when not wearing a helmet than when wearing one,

>
> More or less risk of what?
> Take care, in your clarification, to define 'injury' 'serious' and
> 'head'.
>
>> how many times will I fall off a cycle and damage my head?

>
> Four.


So I still have four to go?

>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
> |\ /| no .sig
> |o o|
> |/ \|
 
"Chris Malcolm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Alan Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Mike Causer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 22:33:50 +0000, Alan Holmes wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just a thought as to whether helmets really do save lives.
>>>>
>>>> How many cyclists not wearing helmets have been either killed or badly
>>>> injured, compared with cyclists who do wear helmets?

>
>> I was serious, I wonder whether the fuss about helmets is worth while,
>> for
>> about a hundred years cyclist have not worn helmets, so why have they
>> suddenly appeared?

>
> Suddenly? How long have you been asleep?


Compared with the time without helmets!

>
> --
> Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
> IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
> [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
>
 
On Tue, 16 Jan, Alan Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:21:31 GMT, Alan Holmes <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> how many times will I fall off a cycle and damage my head?

> >
> > Four.

>
> So I still have four to go?


Yes - that's what you asked, so that's what I told you.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
John Kane <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
> Just drawing all the information together into one simi-coherent whole
> is probably at least a Ph.D dissertation.


And you will have a hard time defending it, given that even the BMA now
supports helmet legislation, even if their fact sheet on it in my
opinion has nothing to do with honest scientific work.

Btw, has someone had a closer look at the lates declaration of Hagel in
Injury Prevention
(http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/12/6/353?ct)? Unfortunately
I can not get hold of it very easily (none of the libraries in my
vicinity has the journal and I doubt that the editoral is worth the 12$
they want for it), but the response from Peter W Ward sounds as if Hagel
as editor of the journal asks for censorship in this case. Is that true?

Ingo.
 
Buck wrote on 16/01/2007 10:58 +0100:

>> You (apparently) don't.

>
> People don't actually, they have heard from the idiots on both sides but
> have yet to hear from balanced sources, both sides so far have started
> with the solutions they wished to reach, then followed with "research"
> to prove their requirements, both arguments are flawed so we are no
> further forward.
>


Confirming you don't. Most of us here started from the long held
assumption that helmets were good - I wore one for years thinking it
protected my head. Many of us have also had scientific training and at
some point or other something triggered us to look into the research.
The result of that review is that most of us stopped wearing helmets.

So to say we started from solutions we wished to reach is absolutely
wrong. We started from a long held opposite position and were convinced
by the evidence that we had been wrong. The evidence is now collated
out there on cyclehelmets.org for you to read and make up your own mind.
For some reason a number of people don't want to do that which is
their perogative but don't expect to get an easy ride from those of us
that have done the detailed study if you then spout uninformed nonsense
here.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 
soup wrote on 16/01/2007 12:58 +0100:
> Alan Holmes wrote:
>
>> I wasn't aware that there had been any threads on this subject!

>
> Surely you jest?


Nope, this is the man who didn't know who Wiggle was. I've a feeling
Alan is one of those people you hear about who wake up from a coma with
no memory.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 
"Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 16 Jan, Alan Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:21:31 GMT, Alan Holmes <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> how many times will I fall off a cycle and damage my head?
>> >
>> > Four.

>>
>> So I still have four to go?

>
> Yes - that's what you asked, so that's what I told you.


Good, that is comforting to know!


>
> regards, Ian SMith
> --
> |\ /| no .sig
> |o o|
> |/ \|
 
"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> soup wrote on 16/01/2007 12:58 +0100:
>> Alan Holmes wrote:
>>
>>> I wasn't aware that there had been any threads on this subject!

>>
>> Surely you jest?

>
> Nope, this is the man who didn't know who Wiggle was. I've a feeling Alan
> is one of those people you hear about who wake up from a coma with no
> memory.


Is it that obvious?


>
> --
> Tony
>
> "...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
> wildly inaccurate..."
> Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 
In message <%%[email protected]>
"Alan Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> You seem not to understand what I am asking, it's very simple really,
> am I at more risk when not wearing a helmet than when wearing one,
> how many times will I fall off a cycle and damage my head?
>
> Alan
>


You appear to be mixing up concepts of risk and certainty.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"
 
John Kane wrote:
> Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
>
>>Buck wrote:
>>
>>>So best to stick to questions about chain oil and carrot cake.

>>
>>Don't be ridiculous: carrot cake would be inedible with chain oil in.
>>
>>A

>
>
> Some of the biodegradeable chain oils might be okay.


Biodegradeable carrot cake would also be a start ;-)
 
Paul Boyd wrote:

> I do wear a helmet off-road if it's rocky or I don't know the area, but
> my local woods are so squidgy that there's more danger of drowning!


If you can't swim, then wearing a polystyrene helmet really could save
your life.

Martin.
 
In message <[email protected]>
Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:

> Paul Boyd wrote:
>
> > I do wear a helmet off-road if it's rocky or I don't know the area,
> > but my local woods are so squidgy that there's more danger of
> > drowning!

>
> If you can't swim, then wearing a polystyrene helmet really could save
> your life.
>


Uhm... never thought of that risk. However I've just returned from a
weeks skiing in Espace Killy and I've noticed that the proportion of
skiers wearing helmets has greatly increased.

Does anyone know the risks of .........

;-)

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"
 
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:53:50 +0100 someone who may be
[email protected] (Ingo Keck) wrote this:-

>And you will have a hard time defending it, given that even the BMA now
>supports helmet legislation,


Only after a "discussion" of a few minutes at the end of a
conference. I understand this travesty is being challenged.





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
 

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