Ibuprofen before Vo2 max workouts? You too?



tonyzackery said:
http://www.peakcentrevancouver.ca/race_series_2008-09.php

Got that early b-day gift and Christmas present in April after all.

On a side note, picked up an eBay special wired PowerTap Comp hub/wheel so I'll get do some intervals outside for a change...looking forward to assessing the difference in power outdoors vs. indoors...
Mea culpa. Posted wrong link - correct link to Stage 18 combined results:

http://www.ridewithrendall.com/results/2009/?race=20090405&city=combined
 
tonyzackery said:
http://www.peakcentrevancouver.ca/race_series_2008-09.php

Got that early b-day gift and Christmas present in April after all.

On a side note, picked up an eBay special wired PowerTap Comp hub/wheel so I'll get do some intervals outside for a change...looking forward to assessing the difference in power outdoors vs. indoors...
Congrats!!

My recent experience after 4 months almost exclusively on a trainer is that I can sustain ~5% more power on a trainer than outdoors! I believe (and hope) that will change soon when I get more time outdoors.
Will be interesting to hear if you experience the same as I have understood that you spend quite a while on a trainer.
 
http://www.peakcentrevancouver.ca/[/url]
I see winter has been treating you well - someone's hitting the racing season running with better form. Nice!

The lighter guys do have an advantage on the long (> a few miles) hills where the gradient is over 8% but I think that too many heavier guys, who still have a better power/weight ratio than the small guys, think too much about it and psych themselves out of a good ride on the hills. Around 7.5% gradient is where 1 watt gained is equal to 1lb less weight. Use the gradients of less than that to your advantage.

I pretty sure that now you have a Powertap and can measure power out on the road, that if you went out and rode the hills at, or above, your FTP and got used to the different style of pedalling (ie slower at a higher torque) at that power output you'd probably do pretty good. Get used to riding very hard out of the saddle for a couple of minutes and you'll be better at it come race day. It's an aquired skill - just like everything else. The more you do it the more you get used to it and the better chance you have of become more efficient at it. Watch the big guys in the European classics go up those 20% hills - it aint like Lance riding in "conservation mode" - it's big gear and lots of grunt. That said, when Lance lauched all of his famous attacks, there was lots of out of the saddle and big gears too.

But don't let the climbers work you over on the hills - work them over before it and after it. Don't let the flyweight peons dictate what's typically a mostly flat race with only 20% of it going up. Sure, it might not always work - but at least you'd have fun trying.
 
For sure, I wish all it took to maintain pace with the better climbers was guts and determination. I'm sure I would manage just fine, as demonstrated last weekend. The issue is managing caloric expenditure versus intake and/or storage.

Power is not the issue. Fuel drain is. On the hills I can maintain the pace, even staying with the surges, for awhile - just not as long as I need to in order to maintain contact in a 100+k race. Not once did I need to get out of the saddle. I'm a 514 big block FE Ford (always been a Ford guy, though I have a soft spot for BB Chevs - hate small block Chevs!) racing against 3.5L V6s and turbo 4 cylinders. You can improve the fuel economy/efficiency of that big block but, relatively, it's still gonna be a gas hog...

I think at some point every rider/racer needs to make an honest assessment of their weaknesses and strengths and accept that "it is what it is"...I'd like to think I can do anything I want, but reality says otherwise.
 
tonyzackery said:
I think at some point every rider/racer needs to make an honest assessment of their weaknesses and strengths and accept that "it is what it is"...I'd like to think I can do anything I want, but reality says otherwise.
Are you absolutly shure you need those big guns & huge shoulders your carrying around? surly the concentration camp look upstairs is far more attractive don't you think? you would be a monster if you lost some of that. Just sayin.

P.S. small blocks rule 327sbc all the way baby ;)
 
bubsy said:
Are you absolutly shure you need those big guns & huge shoulders your carrying around? surly the concentration camp look upstairs is far more attractive don't you think? you would be a monster if you lost some of that. Just sayin.

P.S. small blocks rule 327sbc all the way baby ;)
Where you been??? I've been soliciting for several months someone to take these delts/triceps/biceps/lats off my hands. No takers - yet. Been contemplating getting some chemo from some unscrupulous doc to assist with my transmogrification. Not really interested in having an actual indication for the chemo, if you know what I mean. I know my boys can swim well, but still not interested in cutting their production in half...:D

p.s. you're talking to a drag racer in his former life. Used to run (still have the car, just into cycling at the moment) a small block Ford 302 with a Vortech supercharger at 13lbs. Low 11s in the 1/4 at 122-124mph with a 5 speed manual...SBC **** oil all over the place...
 
bubsy said:
Are you absolutly shure you need those big guns & huge shoulders your carrying around? surly the concentration camp look upstairs is far more attractive don't you think? you would be a monster if you lost some of that. Just sayin.

P.S. small blocks rule 327sbc all the way baby ;)
My ZZ502 big block would argue otherwise...
 
tonyzackery said:
For sure, I wish all it took to maintain pace with the better climbers was guts and determination. I'm sure I would manage just fine, as demonstrated last weekend. The issue is managing caloric expenditure versus intake and/or storage.
It's not a guts and determination issue - it a use your strengths before they get a chance to use theirs issue. You'll never beat a good climber on a hard climb, but there's nothing that says you can't work him over before you get there, maybe also on part of a climb that's only a couple of percent grade and on the way down the other side...
 
Success!
Had my second test today - not the full meal deal as in December but more of a Aerobic and LT threshold test. Of particular note was my increased efficiency, evidenced by the fact that at every lower wattage stage (220, 250, 280, and 310) my heart rate was ~10 beats lower than in December.

Won't get the final numbers until Monday but today I completed the entire 400w 3minute stage, whereas in December I only completed 2mins of the 370w stage.
My training rx has been on the money and with crit racing commencing in earnest next month, the numbers will only go higher still;) .
 
For those that are interested, here's the current schedule now that the TT series has ended:

Monday: LSD 2hrs w/ avg HR <125 (~70% of maxHR). Recovery facilitation.
Tuesday: Vo2max intervals; 5-7 x 2mins @ ~120% FTP. Rest between reps 3-5mins. NO IBUPROFEN - lately:D . Sometimes I'll do 4-5min intervals at 110-115% for variety.
Wed: Repeat Monday.
Thurs: FTP intervals; 1x40mins and 1x20mins @ FTP; 5mins rest between
Fri: OFF
Sat: Moderate ride with some SST mixed in 2-4hrs
Sun: Group ride w/ sprints, Vo2max and threshold efforts 3-4hrs

Very simple, very basic and very effective - for me. Of course, YMMV.

The crits, every Tuesday and Thursday starting in May, will alter the sched. Foresee moving the day off to Monday with Friday becoming a short (10-15mins) threshold interval day. Once I have the PT wheel up and running, I'm sure I'll tweak the sched even more.

non progredi est regredi...
 
Good to see your kickin the ibuprofin is it in favour of something stronger 400mg of caffine perhaps? does wonders for me not 400mg though l'm only 73kg atm and 200-300mg puts me in another mindset all together, never used it in training or racing until late last year and holy **** what a differance l mean night and day differance it's turned 2x20's into 3x20's 3xpw, this is gunna be an interesting year for me to say the least.


BTW l found that if you tighten the oil pan bolts on a sbc it will usually solve the leaking oil problem ;)
 
bubsy said:
Good to see your kickin the ibuprofin is it in favour of something stronger 400mg of caffine perhaps? does wonders for me not 400mg though l'm only 73kg atm and 200-300mg puts me in another mindset all together, never used it in training or racing until late last year and holy **** what a differance l mean night and day differance it's turned 2x20's into 3x20's 3xpw, this is gunna be an interesting year for me to say the least.


BTW l found that if you tighten the oil pan bolts on a sbc it will usually solve the leaking oil problem ;)
Can't say I'm "kickin the ibu", but I've probably cut back somewhat - lately. Have tried acetaminophen to apparent good effect. Caffeine doesn't seem to do much for me - maybe I haven't used enough. Seems you got the recipe down, however.

Poor design on Chevs part with only 4 bolts to hold down each valve cover, irrespective of the oil pan leaks...
 
tonyzackery said:
As I notice a trend towards transparency of info, thought I'd pass along all of my test results and let you all compare yourself to me:


Aerobic threshold: 280w/155bpm 78% of power at Vo2max
Lactate threshold: 330w/166bpm 92% of power at Vo2max
Minimum power to elicit Vo2max: 360w

Vo2 test stages:

Watts----------- HR------------- Lactate-
1 - 220w------135bpm--------------1.39mMol -
2 - 250--------145------------------1.44
3 - 280--------154------------------1.86
4 - 310--------164------------------2.75
5 - 340--------167------------------4.52
6 - 370--------175------------------8.14

Completed only 2mins. at 370w stage. 90rpm required. 3min stages.
Height 6'3" 200.8lbs. Gear ratio 53/17. Total time 17mins.
Mistakenly reported that I completed the 400w. I only completed 90s of it - must've been delirium setting in for me to believe I did the entire 3mins:D .

'Before' (12/08) results above, 'after' results below:

Watts----------HR-----------Lactate
220------------128-----------1.75
250------------139-----------1.69
280------------145-----------2.05
310------------156-----------2.84
340------------164-----------4.03
370------------172-----------5.77
400------------178-----------7.71

Aerobic Threshold: 275w (-5w) 144bpm (-11bpm)
Lactate Threshold: 340w (+10w) 164bpm (-2bpm)
Minimum Power to elicit Vo2max: 385w (+25w)

The goal after the initial test in December was to raise power at Vo2max. Mission accomplished. Further, I'm quite suprised at how little focused work I did to make that gain. Racing season will undoubtedly push the current figure well into the 400+ range, hopefully pulling FTP up with it.

Well folks, this entry will conclude this thread. I must admit I learned alot about myself, and internet forum culture. Not going to wax sentimental, but suffice to say "It's been real". Keep the rubber side down...
 
^^Thanks for the info. Nothing new or earth-shattering, but worth reading nonetheless. Misuse, abuse, or using anything as a crutch is detrimental, so let's not just pick on NSAIDs...Anyway, last time I checked, my kidneys were still working satisfactorily...

I need to repeat that I do not abuse ibuprofen. I know, I know "abuse" is a relative term. Would you consider 400mgs (2 tabs) once every couple weeks for maybe 3 - 4 months out of the year abusive?? Neither would I...

Furthermore, those of you that are concerned for my health will be glad to know that I've reduced my addiction:)D) considerably from last year. Also probably explains why my FTP is down 10-15w from last year as well:confused:. Nahh...

I'm doing the indoor TTs again this year (I'll spare y'all the reporting each week), and as mentioned I'm down 10-15w. I have my suspicions and I'll get things corrected soon...I hope...
 
i know this is originally Tony's thread.
I thought this might be a relevant little gem for more possible discussion.
it is not exactly ibuprofen but painkiller all the same & the effect on cycling.
std. deviation is pretty small though sample size is too (n=13).
OBLA was higher during ACE ingestion but this is expected given power was likely higher also though RPE was not.

maybe other factors contributed to the decrease in TT time when taking ACE (environmental conditions like wind? temp?):

Influence of acetaminophen on performance during time trial cycling

Alexis R. Mauger, Andrew M. Jones, and Craig A. Williams School of Sport and Health Sciences, University of Exeter, Devon, United Kingdom
Submitted 15 July 2009 ; accepted in final form 5 November 2009
To establish whether acetaminophen improves performance of self-paced exercise through the reduction of perceived pain, 13 trained male cyclists performed a self-paced 10-mile (16.1 km) cycle time trial (TT) following the ingestion of either acetaminophen (ACT) or a placebo (PLA), administered in randomized double-blind design. TT were completed in a significantly faster time (t12 = 2.55, P < 0.05) under the ACT condition (26 min 15 s ± 1 min 36 s vs. 26 min 45 s ± 2 min 2 s). Power output (PO) was higher during the middle section of the TT in the ACT condition, resulting in a higher mean PO (P < 0.05) (265 ± 12 vs. 255 ± 15 W). Blood lactate concentration (B[La]) and heart rate (HR) were higher in the ACT condition (B[La] = 6.1 ± 2.9 mmol/l; HR = 87 ± 7%max) than in the PLA condition (B[La] = 5.1 ± 2.6 mmol/l; HR = 84 ± 9%max) (P < 0.05). No significant difference in rating of perceived exertion (ACT = 15.5 ± 0.2; PLA = 15.7 ± 0.2) or perceived pain (ACT = 5.6 ± 0.2; PLA = 5.5 ± 0.2) (P > 0.05) was observed. Using acetaminophen, participants cycled at a higher mean PO, with an increased HR and B[La], but without changes in perceived pain or exertion. Consequently, completion time was significantly faster. These findings support the notion that exercise is regulated by pain perception, and increased pain tolerance can improve exercise capacity.
central regulation; power output; perceived exertion; afferent feedback
 
Yeah, it's MY thread all right - and no one else is supposed to post here!:D

Nice discovery, DM. I'm my own study of which I really give a sheet about, but this further confirms my belief that there's a study somewhere to support practically anything and everything.

Nsaid/ACE status as a legitimate PED is equivocal, no doubt. I think it helps me, maybe a few percentage points at best, but I won't suggest anyone else take up the practice. The genesis for this thread was my wondering aloud whether or not anyone out there in netdom shared the same wavelength as I; and you see what was spawned from that enquiry over a year ago...
 
Ha ha, 22 page thread. yeah, that qualifies as 'spawning something'!! ;)

kinda interesting because technically NSAID (like ibuprofen) is not the same as ACET. technically ACET isn't an anti-inflammatory, but an antipyretic from what i have researched.

the study i posted here had the riders taking - you sitting down? - 1500mg.......less than an hour before the TT's. they may have had aspirin too.

have you experimented w/diff kinds of these - as in aspirin vs. ibuprofen vs acet? any diff in your exp?

intriguing stuff to say the least
 
^^Tried acetaminophen, and it dulled the intense pain as well. No DOMS with either. Haven't tried aspirin.
 

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