Is it possible to live in America without a car?

[Jack May]

"Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> It's difficult for
> most people to see how, because social engineering has organized most
> cities and towns to make it difficult to live without a car. But it can
> be done- the question is whether any one person can make the lifestyle
> adjustments.

So what, homeless people live with even much less. It so vapid to try to
go to extremes to avoid using a car instead of trying to have an enjoyable
life. The old "evil car" **** is really tiresome and worthless.

 

[Pooh Bear]

donquijote1954 wrote:

> Then, last month, I went to Amsterdam for a friend's birthday party. I
> was amazed: Everyone rode bikes, everywhere. I saw 80-year-olds
> pedaling along beside young mothers with two and even three small
> children perched on various parts of their bikes, and dads trundling
> off to work in business suits and nice Italian shoes. The Dutch, I
> later learned, conduct 30 percent of all their trips-to work, for
> errands, socially-by bike.

That'll be because Holland has virually no hills.

Graham

 

[Peter Cole]

Rita wrote:
>
>
> Yes, it is possible to live without a car, but much does depend where
> you choose to live.
>

This is an important point. The author was inspired by Amsterdam, but
where he lived was very different. The suburbs were designed for the
automobile, biking there is an exercise in frustration. Older cities,
like your former NY and my Boston, were largely designed before the car,
and accommodate them less well (like Amsterdam). Bicycles work better
than cars in these places.

 

[Peter Cole]

Dave Head wrote:
> Sure, you can live without a car - lotsa people do it, but its way less
> convenient and you won't get as much done as if you had one, even in good
> public transport cities. Try using a bus or a train to go grocery shopping and
> do it as quickly as if you had a car. You can't - doesn't matter where it is.
> You're going to spend more time in transit with public transit than if you had
> a car. That's just the way it is. But, yeah, you can do without a car...

A bike will beat a car and/or mass transit in a lot of cities, including
mine (Boston).

 

[[email protected]]

Well, since you ask, yes it is.

I donated my car to a charity after I retired and have been car-free
for 2 years.

Best thing I ever did.

Lewis.

*****





donquijote1954 wrote:
> It sounds to me like, "Can an ant survive among the big predators?"
> Well, sort of, they run the risk of being stepped upon, but they got
> the "freedom" to run around. Welcome to the Jungle...
>
> The Bicycle Diaries
> Is it possible to live in America without a car? Uh, sort of.
> By Bill Gifford
>
> "I can't believe how windy it is today," said the woman in line at the
> pet store.
>
> "I know," said the cashier. Then, rolling her eyes and nodding
> meaningfully in my direction, she added, "and some people are riding
> their bikes."
>
> "Mmmm," said her customer, gathering up her kitty litter and heading
> for her minivan, studiously avoiding even a glance in my direction,
> which was difficult because I was holding the door open for her.
>
> After two weeks of riding my bicycle everywhere, I'd gotten used to
> people treating me as if I were somehow not right in the head. Store
> clerks ignored me, old men gave me the hard stare, soccer moms avoided
> eye contact. After all, almost nobody in America rides a bike if they
> can afford a car.
>
> But after Katrina jacked gas prices toward $4 a gallon, my Volvo
> station wagon was starting to seem a lot less affordable. It wasn't
> just the $50 fill-ups, either, but the $400-plus repair bill that
> resulted from the Volvo's annual state inspection, on top of a $200
> insurance payment, and the costly new drive shaft that she still needs,
> the insatiable beast. In mid-October, under the influence of warm fall
> weather and a recent visit to Amsterdam, I decided to opt out of
> humanity's little deal with the Devil, known as the automobile.
>
> Long story short: At least I tried.
>
> It seemed easy enough. I'm what the newspapers call an "avid"
> cyclist-rhymes with "rabid." I own four bikes, which I rarely use for
> actual transportation. Like most of the 90 million Americans who swung
> a leg over a bicycle last year, including our president, I rode for
> fitness and recreation only.
>
> Then, last month, I went to Amsterdam for a friend's birthday party. I
> was amazed: Everyone rode bikes, everywhere. I saw 80-year-olds
> pedaling along beside young mothers with two and even three small
> children perched on various parts of their bikes, and dads trundling
> off to work in business suits and nice Italian shoes. The Dutch, I
> later learned, conduct 30 percent of all their trips-to work, for
> errands, socially-by bike. In America, that figure is less than 1
> percent. We drive 84 percent of the time, even though most of our trips
> are less than 2 miles long. More than three-quarters of us commute
> alone by car, compared with just half a million (way less than 1
> percent) who do so by bike, according to the 2000 Census. As a
> "committed" cyclist-another loaded adjective-I'd always tut-tutted
> these kinds of statistics.
>
> In late October, I took a vow of automotive abstinence. I'd go
> everywhere by bike: daily errands, social events, even the "office" (a
> Wi-Fi cafe where I often work-4 miles away, over a decent-sized
> hill). I don't commute to an actual job, but I would go somewhere every
> day, rain or shine. I allowed a few exceptions, like emergency vet
> visits and picking up friends from the train station. Otherwise, I'd be
> helping to cut down on greenhouse-gas pollution and traffic congestion,
> while keeping myself in shape. I was well ahead of the curve: According
> to one survey, gas would have to hit $5 per gallon before a majority of
> Americans would consider walking or riding bikes as alternative
> transportation.
>
> I'm not like most Americans: I have no kids to chauffeur to soccer
> practice, no elderly parents to care for, and I commute in slippers. I
> would still need to eat, however, and I would continue to go to
> restaurants and movies and parties and shopping. Although I live in a
> semirural area, suburbia is closing in on all sides, with more housing
> developments every year. As in much of suburbia, there are almost no
> services within easy walking distance: It's 2 miles to the convenience
> store where I buy the New York Times, 6 miles to the grocery and pet
> stores, 4 miles to my favorite bar. The former country roads around
> here are becoming busier all the time. Luckily, a defunct local railway
> line had recently been converted to a 17-mile recreation trail that
> passes fairly close to the stores I most often visit, as well as a
> couple of pretty good bars and restaurants. I'd be riding a lot of
> miles, but as it turned out, the mileage wouldn't be the problem.
>
> That first Sunday, I hopped on a bike to go get the paper, just a
> couple miles down the rail-trail. I wore jeans, mistake No. 1: By the
> time I reached the Sunoco, I was profoundly chafed, and worse, my
> Banana Republic jeans now sported a black, greasy streak at about
> midcalf, from rubbing against the chain. It was chilly, and I was a tad
> hung over from a party the night before. By the time I got home, I had
> a raging tension headache, thanks to my hunched-over riding position.
>
> Three Advils later, I looked at my bike with fresh eyes. It had a
> skinny little seat that all but required me to wear padded cycling
> pants when I rode. The handlebars were set forward and low, so a
> stretchy top was also a must-with a long tail, to avoid showing the
> cyclist's equivalent of plumber's crack. And it had special "clipless"
> pedals, which required me to wear special stiff-soled shoes with metal
> cleats on the bottom. Great for riding, not so much for walking. My
> beloved mountain bike had always seemed so comfortable on the local
> dirt trails. But like most bikes sold in the United States, it was an
> exercise machine, and not intended to be used for transportation.
> (There are some bikes that work well for city/transport use, including
> the functional Breezer, the retro-stylin' Electra line of cruisers, and
> the supremely elegant Bianchi Milano, which is what I'd ride if I
> actually lived in Milano.)
>
> Years ago, when I commuted by bike to an office job at a magazine, I
> had established a little routine. It was 6 miles each way, and I made
> sure to ride at a slow pace so I wouldn't get too sweaty. Arriving at
> work before most of my colleagues, I'd shut my office door and read
> e-mails while I cooled down. Then I'd swab myself with Old Spice Red
> Zone and change into work clothes, trading my cycling shoes for the old
> Kenneth Coles I kept under my desk. By the time everyone else arrived,
> clutching their Dunkin' Donuts coffee, I was fully dressed, awake, and
> presentable. Then one morning, while I was locking my bike to a parking
> meter, I happened to see the publisher, a pudgy-fingered little man who
> liked French cuffs and hated bike messengers, which is exactly what I
> resembled at that moment. My career at that magazine ended shortly
> thereafter.
>
> I've got a whole dresser full of cycling clothes. And they work well,
> for their intended purpose, which is exercising. I actually thought
> they looked sort of cool, as long as you didn't venture into the
> neon-yellow end of the color spectrum (or worse, purple). But as my
> first week carless progressed I realized that bike clothes only look
> good when you're actually riding a bike. The moment you stop, get off,
> and walk around among normally-dressed people-say, when you drop by
> the local Kmart and stroll about, in skintight Spandex, holding a
> toilet plunger-bike clothes don't seem quite so cool.
>
> As I approached the Kmart cash registers in this early visit, metal
> cleats clicking on the linoleum tile, the cashier girls stopped
> comparing their incarcerated boyfriends and stared. Then they looked
> away. One studied her nails, while the other concentrated on scanning
> the plunger and counting change. This, I'd come to recognize, was The
> Silence, the awkward, get-this-over-with tension that often accompanied
> transactions where one party is clad head-to-toe in stretch synthetics
> that might not smell so great. I paid, grabbed the plunger, and
> click-clacked out the automatic sliding doors, to everyone's relief.
> And as I pedaled away, I realized that bike clothes aren't merely ugly,
> to normal people: They're transgressive.
>
> So I did an extreme biker makeover: I bought baggy shorts to wear over
> my padded cycling clothes, to spare the sensibilities of store clerks
> and my fellow customers. I wore neutral-toned jerseys but kept the
> bright-gold nylon jacket, because it made me more visible and thus
> safer. I ditched the fancy pedals for regular, flat pedals, so I could
> ride in normal shoes. And I attached a rack to one of my racing bikes,
> an act of utter bike-geek sacrilege. It didn't matter: Sooner or later,
> I'd need to go get dog food.
>
> Still, by the end of that first shakedown week, I was growing to enjoy
> my bike-bound, self-propelled life. I'd made an executive decision to
> ride slowly, because it wasn't fun to get all Lance Armstrong-sweaty
> and then stand in line at Foodland, sweating all over the broccoli. By
> necessity, I chose less-traveled roads, which led me to some
> interesting local discoveries, like a natural-foods market run by the
> Amish that stocked wild salmon and bison steaks. I got exactly one flat
> tire, on a 12-mile trek to have my DVD player repaired. Luckily I
> carried a spare tube-essential for any ride, as is a helmet-and was
> back on my way in less time than it would have taken to get my Volvo
> filled up and washed.
>
> Since I couldn't carry more than about two or three bags worth of
> groceries, I needed to go shopping more often, but as long as the
> weather held, I didn't mind. In fact, I looked forward to longer trips,
> like a 10-mile jaunt to a local college library. The fresh air and
> exercise kept me alert during the afternoons, and after humping an Oven
> Stuffer Roaster up a 2-mile grade, there was certainly no need to go to
> the gym. At night, after a beer or two at the bar, I was probably safer
> riding on the wide, empty rail-trail than driving on the dark, narrow
> rural roads-and there were certainly no cherry-picking local cops
> lurking on the bike path.
>
> Best of all, the bike turned out to be the hottest dating vehicle I've
> ever owned. One Sunday, my girlfriend and I rode to a nearby tavern for
> burgers and beers. We sat outside, enjoying one of the last of the warm
> fall afternoons and then wobbled back up the hill to our town. We got
> home feeling slightly sweaty, a bit tipsy, and full of adrenaline. (She
> opted out of the grocery-shopping trips, however, and refused to bike
> home from the Amtrak station at 10 p.m. on Friday nights.)
>
> Slowly but surely, I started running low on dog food. And the thing
> about dog food is that the more you buy, the cheaper it is: A 5-pound
> bag of my pups' preferred brand goes for $12, while the 15-pounder
> costs $25. Plus, the 5-pounder would only last two or three days at the
> most, which is how I ended up in the pet store, lashing an alarmingly
> heavy sack of "Cowboy Cookout"-flavored kibble to my bike rack.
>
> Once the load was secured, I set out, navigating the rather tricky
> strip-mall exit onto a busy state road. It soon became clear, as I
> pedaled along the gravel-strewn shoulder, that I had failed to
> anticipate the sketchy handling characteristics of a 19-pound bike
> laded with 15 pounds of dog food in a 25-mile-an-hour crosswind. One
> especially nasty gust pushed my top-heavy steed into the busy traffic
> lane; as I swerved back to the shoulder, the Cowboy Cookout decided to
> continue in a straight line, and the rear wheel skidded around, nearly
> tossing me into the guardrail.
>
> That night, I went to watch Monday Night Football in the next town
> over. It was a beautiful, moonlit night, unseasonably warm (the wind
> had died down), and bright enough that I didn't even need my headlamp.
> As I sped home through the woods, I soon forgot about the Eagles'
> catastrophic loss. I crawled contentedly into bed ... and awoke with a
> full-blown head cold. It was my third minicold since I'd started this
> experiment, probably thanks to all the sweating and chilling I'd put
> myself through.
>
> At any rate, I wanted only one thing: soup. And I had no soup. It was
> 40 degrees and pouring down rain. Without a second thought, I hopped
> into the car and raced down to Foodland, where I stocked up on
> Campbell's Select Savory Chicken and Long-Grain Rice, and other
> necessities (like ice cream) that I'd been doing without. On the way
> home, I passed the Sunoco station. $2.49 a gallon for premium, I
> decided, was a terrific bargain.
>
> Bill Gifford is a correspondent for Outside.
>
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
>
> THE BANANA REVOLUTION
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
>
> (Don't forget our new "T-shirts" that show the predators driving behind
> you they can eat your banana. Well, you may use it for other purposes
> as well)
>
> http://cafepress.com/peacebanana

 

[recycled-one]

"gpsman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> No ****. For a guy with 4 bikes it seems he'd have enough sense to put
> on some nylon running shorts and a t-shirt. It always kills me when
> guys who ride for exercise wear an aero suit. If you're looking for
> exercise, add some drag.

At first I thought exaggeration but I'm pretty sure the OP was pure troll.
Re-read it with that thought in mind if you wish.

I am convinced enough to bow out of this crossposted flame bait. I hope
everyone else agrees.

DON"T FEED THE TROLLS

Good day all.

 

[Terri]

donquijote1954 wrote:
> It sounds to me like, "Can an ant survive among the big predators?"
> Well, sort of, they run the risk of being stepped upon, but they got
> the "freedom" to run around. Welcome to the Jungle...
>
> The Bicycle Diaries
> Is it possible to live in America without a car? Uh, sort of.
> By Bill Gifford
>
> "I can't believe how windy it is today," said the woman in line at the
> pet store.
>
> "I know," said the cashier. Then, rolling her eyes and nodding
> meaningfully in my direction, she added, "and some people are riding
> their bikes."
>
> "Mmmm," said her customer, gathering up her kitty litter and heading
> for her minivan, studiously avoiding even a glance in my direction,
> which was difficult because I was holding the door open for her.
>
> After two weeks of riding my bicycle everywhere, I'd gotten used to
> people treating me as if I were somehow not right in the head. Store
> clerks ignored me, old men gave me the hard stare, soccer moms avoided
> eye contact. After all, almost nobody in America rides a bike if they
> can afford a car.
>
> But after Katrina jacked gas prices toward $4 a gallon, my Volvo
> station wagon was starting to seem a lot less affordable. It wasn't
> just the $50 fill-ups, either, but the $400-plus repair bill that
> resulted from the Volvo's annual state inspection, on top of a $200
> insurance payment, and the costly new drive shaft that she still needs,
> the insatiable beast. In mid-October, under the influence of warm fall
> weather and a recent visit to Amsterdam, I decided to opt out of
> humanity's little deal with the Devil, known as the automobile.
>
> Long story short: At least I tried.
>
> It seemed easy enough. I'm what the newspapers call an "avid"
> cyclist-rhymes with "rabid." I own four bikes, which I rarely use for
> actual transportation. Like most of the 90 million Americans who swung
> a leg over a bicycle last year, including our president, I rode for
> fitness and recreation only.
>
> Then, last month, I went to Amsterdam for a friend's birthday party. I
> was amazed: Everyone rode bikes, everywhere. I saw 80-year-olds
> pedaling along beside young mothers with two and even three small
> children perched on various parts of their bikes, and dads trundling
> off to work in business suits and nice Italian shoes. The Dutch, I
> later learned, conduct 30 percent of all their trips-to work, for
> errands, socially-by bike. In America, that figure is less than 1
> percent. We drive 84 percent of the time, even though most of our trips
> are less than 2 miles long. More than three-quarters of us commute
> alone by car, compared with just half a million (way less than 1
> percent) who do so by bike, according to the 2000 Census. As a
> "committed" cyclist-another loaded adjective-I'd always tut-tutted
> these kinds of statistics.
>
> In late October, I took a vow of automotive abstinence. I'd go
> everywhere by bike: daily errands, social events, even the "office" (a
> Wi-Fi cafe where I often work-4 miles away, over a decent-sized
> hill). I don't commute to an actual job, but I would go somewhere every
> day, rain or shine. I allowed a few exceptions, like emergency vet
> visits and picking up friends from the train station. Otherwise, I'd be
> helping to cut down on greenhouse-gas pollution and traffic congestion,
> while keeping myself in shape. I was well ahead of the curve: According
> to one survey, gas would have to hit $5 per gallon before a majority of
> Americans would consider walking or riding bikes as alternative
> transportation.
>
> I'm not like most Americans: I have no kids to chauffeur to soccer
> practice, no elderly parents to care for, and I commute in slippers. I
> would still need to eat, however, and I would continue to go to
> restaurants and movies and parties and shopping. Although I live in a
> semirural area, suburbia is closing in on all sides, with more housing
> developments every year. As in much of suburbia, there are almost no
> services within easy walking distance: It's 2 miles to the convenience
> store where I buy the New York Times, 6 miles to the grocery and pet
> stores, 4 miles to my favorite bar. The former country roads around
> here are becoming busier all the time. Luckily, a defunct local railway
> line had recently been converted to a 17-mile recreation trail that
> passes fairly close to the stores I most often visit, as well as a
> couple of pretty good bars and restaurants. I'd be riding a lot of
> miles, but as it turned out, the mileage wouldn't be the problem.
>
> That first Sunday, I hopped on a bike to go get the paper, just a
> couple miles down the rail-trail. I wore jeans, mistake No. 1: By the
> time I reached the Sunoco, I was profoundly chafed, and worse, my
> Banana Republic jeans now sported a black, greasy streak at about
> midcalf, from rubbing against the chain. It was chilly, and I was a tad
> hung over from a party the night before. By the time I got home, I had
> a raging tension headache, thanks to my hunched-over riding position.
>
> Three Advils later, I looked at my bike with fresh eyes. It had a
> skinny little seat that all but required me to wear padded cycling
> pants when I rode. The handlebars were set forward and low, so a
> stretchy top was also a must-with a long tail, to avoid showing the
> cyclist's equivalent of plumber's crack. And it had special "clipless"
> pedals, which required me to wear special stiff-soled shoes with metal
> cleats on the bottom. Great for riding, not so much for walking. My
> beloved mountain bike had always seemed so comfortable on the local
> dirt trails. But like most bikes sold in the United States, it was an
> exercise machine, and not intended to be used for transportation.
> (There are some bikes that work well for city/transport use, including
> the functional Breezer, the retro-stylin' Electra line of cruisers, and
> the supremely elegant Bianchi Milano, which is what I'd ride if I
> actually lived in Milano.)
>
> Years ago, when I commuted by bike to an office job at a magazine, I
> had established a little routine. It was 6 miles each way, and I made
> sure to ride at a slow pace so I wouldn't get too sweaty. Arriving at
> work before most of my colleagues, I'd shut my office door and read
> e-mails while I cooled down. Then I'd swab myself with Old Spice Red
> Zone and change into work clothes, trading my cycling shoes for the old
> Kenneth Coles I kept under my desk. By the time everyone else arrived,
> clutching their Dunkin' Donuts coffee, I was fully dressed, awake, and
> presentable. Then one morning, while I was locking my bike to a parking
> meter, I happened to see the publisher, a pudgy-fingered little man who
> liked French cuffs and hated bike messengers, which is exactly what I
> resembled at that moment. My career at that magazine ended shortly
> thereafter.
>
> I've got a whole dresser full of cycling clothes. And they work well,
> for their intended purpose, which is exercising. I actually thought
> they looked sort of cool, as long as you didn't venture into the
> neon-yellow end of the color spectrum (or worse, purple). But as my
> first week carless progressed I realized that bike clothes only look
> good when you're actually riding a bike. The moment you stop, get off,
> and walk around among normally-dressed people-say, when you drop by
> the local Kmart and stroll about, in skintight Spandex, holding a
> toilet plunger-bike clothes don't seem quite so cool.
>
> As I approached the Kmart cash registers in this early visit, metal
> cleats clicking on the linoleum tile, the cashier girls stopped
> comparing their incarcerated boyfriends and stared. Then they looked
> away. One studied her nails, while the other concentrated on scanning
> the plunger and counting change. This, I'd come to recognize, was The
> Silence, the awkward, get-this-over-with tension that often accompanied
> transactions where one party is clad head-to-toe in stretch synthetics
> that might not smell so great. I paid, grabbed the plunger, and
> click-clacked out the automatic sliding doors, to everyone's relief.
> And as I pedaled away, I realized that bike clothes aren't merely ugly,
> to normal people: They're transgressive.
>
> So I did an extreme biker makeover: I bought baggy shorts to wear over
> my padded cycling clothes, to spare the sensibilities of store clerks
> and my fellow customers. I wore neutral-toned jerseys but kept the
> bright-gold nylon jacket, because it made me more visible and thus
> safer. I ditched the fancy pedals for regular, flat pedals, so I could
> ride in normal shoes. And I attached a rack to one of my racing bikes,
> an act of utter bike-geek sacrilege. It didn't matter: Sooner or later,
> I'd need to go get dog food.
>
> Still, by the end of that first shakedown week, I was growing to enjoy
> my bike-bound, self-propelled life. I'd made an executive decision to
> ride slowly, because it wasn't fun to get all Lance Armstrong-sweaty
> and then stand in line at Foodland, sweating all over the broccoli. By
> necessity, I chose less-traveled roads, which led me to some
> interesting local discoveries, like a natural-foods market run by the
> Amish that stocked wild salmon and bison steaks. I got exactly one flat
> tire, on a 12-mile trek to have my DVD player repaired. Luckily I
> carried a spare tube-essential for any ride, as is a helmet-and was
> back on my way in less time than it would have taken to get my Volvo
> filled up and washed.
>
> Since I couldn't carry more than about two or three bags worth of
> groceries, I needed to go shopping more often, but as long as the
> weather held, I didn't mind. In fact, I looked forward to longer trips,
> like a 10-mile jaunt to a local college library. The fresh air and
> exercise kept me alert during the afternoons, and after humping an Oven
> Stuffer Roaster up a 2-mile grade, there was certainly no need to go to
> the gym. At night, after a beer or two at the bar, I was probably safer
> riding on the wide, empty rail-trail than driving on the dark, narrow
> rural roads-and there were certainly no cherry-picking local cops
> lurking on the bike path.
>
> Best of all, the bike turned out to be the hottest dating vehicle I've
> ever owned. One Sunday, my girlfriend and I rode to a nearby tavern for
> burgers and beers. We sat outside, enjoying one of the last of the warm
> fall afternoons and then wobbled back up the hill to our town. We got
> home feeling slightly sweaty, a bit tipsy, and full of adrenaline. (She
> opted out of the grocery-shopping trips, however, and refused to bike
> home from the Amtrak station at 10 p.m. on Friday nights.)
>
> Slowly but surely, I started running low on dog food. And the thing
> about dog food is that the more you buy, the cheaper it is: A 5-pound
> bag of my pups' preferred brand goes for $12, while the 15-pounder
> costs $25. Plus, the 5-pounder would only last two or three days at the
> most, which is how I ended up in the pet store, lashing an alarmingly
> heavy sack of "Cowboy Cookout"-flavored kibble to my bike rack.
>
> Once the load was secured, I set out, navigating the rather tricky
> strip-mall exit onto a busy state road. It soon became clear, as I
> pedaled along the gravel-strewn shoulder, that I had failed to
> anticipate the sketchy handling characteristics of a 19-pound bike
> laded with 15 pounds of dog food in a 25-mile-an-hour crosswind. One
> especially nasty gust pushed my top-heavy steed into the busy traffic
> lane; as I swerved back to the shoulder, the Cowboy Cookout decided to
> continue in a straight line, and the rear wheel skidded around, nearly
> tossing me into the guardrail.
>
> That night, I went to watch Monday Night Football in the next town
> over. It was a beautiful, moonlit night, unseasonably warm (the wind
> had died down), and bright enough that I didn't even need my headlamp.
> As I sped home through the woods, I soon forgot about the Eagles'
> catastrophic loss. I crawled contentedly into bed ... and awoke with a
> full-blown head cold. It was my third minicold since I'd started this
> experiment, probably thanks to all the sweating and chilling I'd put
> myself through.
>
> At any rate, I wanted only one thing: soup. And I had no soup. It was
> 40 degrees and pouring down rain. Without a second thought, I hopped
> into the car and raced down to Foodland, where I stocked up on
> Campbell's Select Savory Chicken and Long-Grain Rice, and other
> necessities (like ice cream) that I'd been doing without. On the way
> home, I passed the Sunoco station. $2.49 a gallon for premium, I
> decided, was a terrific bargain.
>
> Bill Gifford is a correspondent for Outside.
>
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
>
> THE BANANA REVOLUTION
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
>
> (Don't forget our new "T-shirts" that show the predators driving behind
> you they can eat your banana. Well, you may use it for other purposes
> as well)
>
> http://cafepress.com/peacebanana

I lived without a car in Washington DC and rode the Metro to work. It
was $1.00 more each day since I rode during "rush hour". Now I like to
discover landmarks and new bridges and new sites as economically as
possible. Juggling groceries and a backpack is a separate story.

 

[Claire Petersky]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yes for big cities. No for suburbia.

Kent lives in Issaquah, in deepest darkest suburbia, with his wife and two
kids, carfree:

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour...=carless28e&date=20060528&query=kent+peterson



--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Claire Petersky]

"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Considering this is "urban planning", your views are reasonable, but I
> live in a rural area (not suburbia) and here, it is virtually
> impossible to live without a car.


It's your choice to live in such a place. You shouldn't complain about the
cost of gas, though. That was part of the package when you made that choice.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[Will]

Dave Head wrote:
> And I _will_ get my shopping done before you

No you won't. I can ride to the grocery in 10 minutes. You will need 6
if you make the lights. Then you will cruise the parking lot for a
minute hoping for a "good spot". You've beat me by two minutes, maybe
three. Yippee skippee.

> and an carry 5 cases of diet coke (that was on sale - 4 cases for $10.00 and then
> the 5th one for free the last time I was there - I still have a lot left over
> (that I will drink over the next few weeks)) and you'll be making 2 trips to
> take advantage of that - 'cuz its bulky and its heavy.

This is where having a bike really excels. About 2/3rds of the grocery
aisles become irrelevant: soda aisles, chip aisles, buy one get one
free! buy more and save!... so I will make up the 2 or 3 minutes since
I won't be in those aisles. And I won't be in a long checkout line
either. I will be in the express line. When I beat you home, I won't
be lugging 5 cases of coke, and 4 bags of stuff from the garage. I will
have two bags to manage. And they will be put away before you walk in
the door.

Try it sometime. You will even save money.

 

[[email protected]]

Jack May wrote:
> "Dave Head" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 02:32:51 GMT, "Cathy Kearns" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"Dave Head" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> On 1 Jun 2006 17:56:46 -0700, "Furious George" <[email protected]>
> > Hey, it was cheap, and I drink a lot of it. $2.50 a case, and then
> > finding
> > there was a 5th case free, made 'em all $2.00 a case, with a dozen in a
> > case,
> > so... dang, that's cheap.
> >
> > And roger the bike trip, but... I _did_ acknowledge that you can get
> > around
> > without a car, and yeah, I wasn't factoring in a way to haul 5 cases of
> > coke
> > (plus the other stuff I got - it all came to $44.+ and the coke was only
> > $10),
> > but the premise that its gonna take longer without a car is still true.
>
> The reply to you assume that there are no time constraints and the value of
> a person's time is zero. Making multiple trips instead of one trip is
> somehow a good thing.

Assuming that the person is walking or cycling then it may very well be
a good thing. One's health is improved by regular exercise even mild
exercise.


>
> Typical answer of an idealist with no rational understanding of society.
> Also a person that thinks just because they do something that is proves some
> point for everybody.
>
> Not much intelligence or education in the person's reply to you

 

[Pat]

For me, where I live is a choice. But for the record, for many it is
not. If you are under educated and poor, you probably have little
choice where you live. Someone living is "The Projects" in NYC, really
has few options.

I never implied it was anything other than a choice for me. And what a
glorious choice it was. Last week, I was fishing down on the Rez, an
eagle swooped in, caught a fish, and landed in a tree about 50 feet
from me. It was spectacular. We took our fish home and ate them. Try
that in a city.

I also didn't complain about the price of gas. Sure it cost more than
it did, but it's still a whole lot cheaper living here than in most
place -- and probably any metro area.

If you like walking around the corner to the sushi bar and then hopping
in to see an experimental dance troupe, then this isn't the place for
you.

OTOH, it's a great place if you like want to look at beautiful scenery,
feel safe, know your neighbors, sit around a gossip with your friends
while kids are at practice, etc. In this area, you still have to call
the school if you want your kids to get off at a different stop after
school. You can also call most teachers at home. When the two youth
football teams play each other, half of the community turns out for it.

So yes, it's a choice and I probably spend more on gasoline than you do
but I use less energy on other things like air conditioning (which we
don't have). It was a wonderful choice, but it is a choice that
requires a car. So when you rent a car and drive out to the State Park
near me to experience the country and live in a cabin for a week,
remember, I am living here all of the time.

BTW, I don't think this decision is any better than your decision to
live where you do. To each his/her own. If the city turns you on,
good for you, but it would drive me crazy.

Has anyone seen my keys, I have to run to the post office.... ;-))

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > It's difficult for most people to see how, because social
> > engineering has organized most cities and towns to make it
> > difficult to live without a car. But it can be done- the question
> > is whether any one person can make the lifestyle adjustments.
>
> So what, homeless people live with even much less. It so vapid to
> try to go to extremes to avoid using a car instead of trying to have
> an enjoyable life. The old "evil car" **** is really tiresome and
> worthless.

I didn't say anything about cars being "evil," Jack. That's your
knee-jerk reaction to rational criticism of the car culture, and as long
as you make those assumptions it's going to be impossible to have a
conversation with you.

Living without a car can make very good financial sense. You can
eliminate thousands of dollars per year in costs out of your budget.

Per the Federal Trade Commission, "A new car is second only to a home as
the most expensive purchase many consumers make. According to the
National Automobile Dealers Association, the average price of a new car
sold in the United States is $28,400." That's 69% of the median annual
income in the U.S.

Few people can afford to buy a new car outright, so they finance it.
Most auto loans for new cars are now 60 or 72 months. Today the
interest rate at my credit union for a car loan is 5.99%, which would
result in monthly payments of $548.92 for a 60 month loan, or $6587.04
per year. That's 16% of the U.S. median income. The total cost of the
loan would be $32,935.20.

Add to that the cost of insurance (U.S. average cost $867 per year in
2005) and gasoline (assuming the CAFE standard of 27.5 mpg is met, at an
average fuel cost of $2.75 per gallon and average of 12,000 miles) at
about $1200 per year- this of course will go up. Add in 4 oil changes
at $30 each and we're up to $8,774.04 per year and $43,870.20 over the
five years. And that doesn't include costs for tires, maintenance or
repairs. Or for that matter, registration, license plates, sales tax,
etc. So these figures significantly underestimate the total cost of
ownership. In 2003, the AAA estimated that total operating costs (not
including buying the vehicle) ranged from $6,400 to $8,500 per year.

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/autocost.htm

http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm82.htm

Without a car, investing that same money into a retirement account would
produce a significant improvement in your retirement income. If you are
in your 20s and made that investment now rather than buying a car, your
retirement picture would be vastly superior to the people in my age
bracket (I'm 46), many of whom will not be able to afford to retire
until Alzheimer's and other health problems put them into a nursing
home. I put 20% of my income into my 401(k) but it will not be enough
to permit me to retire, given the extremely poor rate of return since
2000 and general under-regulation of mutual funds to protect consumers.
In fact, when accounting for inflation, fees and taxes most 401(k)
participants may lose money on tier investments even if the stock market
performs at a reasonably good average over the next 30 years.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/world/401k.html

When you do the math, it's hard to justify buying a new car on financial
grounds. A car is a hole in the street that you pour money into. Cars
aren't evil but they are huge money losers for consumers. People buy
cars anyway, in part because they are the victims of social engineering
that began in 1922 at General Motors designed to eliminate
transportation options other than private automobiles for as many people
as possible (search for Alfred P. Sloan and National City Lines).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Streetcar_Conspiracy

We also haven't touched on the other associated costs of car dependence,
such as the effects on health, because those are very difficult to
quantify and cause and effect is difficult to ascertain with certainty
(except of course, the costs associated with automobile accidents
including death, injury, disability, property damage, etc). More than
44,000 Americans die per year in traffic accidents.

http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/15/09/02.html

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/acc-inj.htm

However, common sense tells us that access to cars has a tendency to
reduce exercise and to promote obesity and its associated health risks,
and that emissions from cars can contribute to problems like the sharp
increase in the incidence of asthma and environmental changes (private
cart use accounts for 20% of the greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S.,
according to the Federal government). We also haven't touched on the
subsidies taxpayers pay through the government into this system.

http://www.progress.org/2003/energy22.htm

http://www.commutesolutions.org/calc.htm

http://www.progress.org/gasoline.htm

On the whole, walking or riding your bike rather than driving is a good
contribution to your own health, your own finances and the health of
your city and world. Not owning a car would be a huge contribution to
your economic well-being and, if properly managed, the money saved could
allow you to retire, which is a luxury that fewer and fewer Americans
will have.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> But its almost always possible to rent a car/truck or call a cab.
> And while we often think of cabs as expensive, compared with the 44
> cents a mile or so that it costs to feed and pay for a car, its
> really likely to be quite affordable.

The average cost of operation is $.56 per mile, not including the cost
of the vehicle itself, according to the AAA.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Jack May" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > It's difficult for
> > most people to see how, because social engineering has organized
> > most cities and towns to make it difficult to live without a car.
> > But it can be done- the question is whether any one person can make
> > the lifestyle adjustments.
>
> So what, homeless people live with even much less. It so vapid to
> try to go to extremes to avoid using a car instead of trying to have
> an enjoyable life. The old "evil car" **** is really tiresome and
> worthless.

BTW, driving and dealing with cars is the *least* enjoyable time I spend
in any given day. And I end up driving a lot as I am a consultant and
work in two job sites per day, five day per week, in a 30 mile radius
from my home. Cars suck. I prefer riding my bike, and I do so when I
can. Anything up to 15 miles is a very reasonable commute by bike, so I
do get to ride my bike to work fairly often.

 

[Matthew Russotto]

In article <[email protected]>,
gpsman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>No ****. For a guy with 4 bikes it seems he'd have enough sense to put
>on some nylon running shorts and a t-shirt. It always kills me when
>guys who ride for exercise wear an aero suit. If you're looking for
>exercise, add some drag.

If you're riding for exercise, adding drag won't increase your
intensity; it'll just lower your speed.

 

[Matthew Russotto]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>The question is really about the individual and the conditions of their
>particular life. It's not "is it possible to live in America without a
>car" but "how can I live in America without a car?" It's difficult for
>most people to see how, because social engineering has organized most
>cities and towns to make it difficult to live without a car. But it can
>be done- the question is whether any one person can make the lifestyle
>adjustments.

In other words, to live in America without a car, you must structure
your life around not having a car.

 

[N8N]

Tim McNamara wrote:

>
> On the whole, walking or riding your bike rather than driving is a good
> contribution to your own health, your own finances and the health of
> your city and world. Not owning a car would be a huge contribution to
> your economic well-being and, if properly managed, the money saved could
> allow you to retire, which is a luxury that fewer and fewer Americans
> will have.

In some areas, like the one I live in (Metro DC area) not having a car
can actually *cost* you money, in increased real estate prices close to
where the places of work are. In fact I'm currently trying to move
closer to my office (I currently live 50 miles away) and I am having a
really hard time finding any options that make financial sense.

It doesn't help that it appears that the real estate bubble may or may
not burst within the next few years; just paying buttloads of money to
live closer to work may not be a good idea as if the property doesn't
hold its value I could be in for a royal screwing down the road.

nate

 

[Matthew Russotto]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>When you do the math, it's hard to justify buying a new car on financial
>grounds.

A _new_ car, perhaps; a _used_ car is a lot easier to justify on
financial grounds. But to make that calculation you have to consider
the limits that not having a car put on you. If not having a car
means you have to buy a house closer to work which costs $150,000
more (with associated interest and property taxes)... well, there's a
big savings for a car right there.

>On the whole, walking or riding your bike rather than driving is a good
>contribution to your own health, your own finances and the health of
>your city and world.

Somehow, I can't reconcile this statement with the 10+ mile ride over Diamond
Hill.

>Not owning a car would be a huge contribution to
>your economic well-being and, if properly managed, the money saved could
>allow you to retire, which is a luxury that fewer and fewer Americans
>will have.

I'd rather live well now than suffer in hopes of a retirement which
won't happen until I'm too old to fully enjoy life anyway.

 

[Floyd Rogers]

"Claire Petersky" <[email protected]> wrote
> <[email protected]> wrote
>> Yes for big cities. No for suburbia.
>
> Kent lives in Issaquah, in deepest darkest suburbia, with his wife and two
> kids, carfree:
>
> http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour...=carless28e&date=20060528&query=kent+peterson
>

Well, Claire (nice to "see" you again btw), Kent actually lives in
downtown Issaquah, a few blocks from the Iss. Market and all
the shops on Front Street (and the Village Theater!). Hardly
my idea of suburbia, more like a traditional English village/town
location. He and his wife have made a choice in location and
work; it's too bad that there aren't more opportunities in the US
for that choice.

FloydR (down here past May Valley, in *REAL* suburbia)