Well I have a FUJI Roubaix-Pro, its a light weight steel bike made of Reynolds 853 material. It performs great and its perfect for Crit races.
Is Steel the best material?
- Thread starter Jon Cooper
- Start date
Koichi Nakano won 10 consecutive World Professional Sprint Championships on lightweight steel bikes. I doubt if his Nagasawa frames would be considered overly floppy. A steel frame can be just as stiff as any of the other materials - it depends on the construction and geometry.
I'm a bit of a late comer to this particular thread, which seems to have excited quite a lot of interest.
I have two steel frames. My oldest is a 531c which is over 11 years old and I am still riding. It hasn't given me any trouble at all and, in my opinion, is wonderfully responsive on climbs. My 'newest' frame is 7 years old and is a Reynolds 631 with larger diameter tubing. I really enjoy this bike (it has 2003 Shimano Ultegra 9sp). About the only problem I am encountering now is getting hold of quill stems. Since both frames have threaded forks, I am looking into getting an Ahead adapter.
I would love to try a Titanium frame for use as my "winter" bike since the corrosive effects of all the UK rain and road salt shouldn't bother it.
I have got my eye on the Argon18 Radon Cz frame, which seems to use a combination of alloy and carbon fibre, but I have heard some horror stories of carbon fibre fractures.
I have only experienced one frame "failure" on a steel bike and it was caused by a duff weld - I got a new replacement frame without any questions asked once they saw the breaks (there were two, one on the seat tube, the other on the rear fork).
I think that high-end materials are only there for hard-core racers, for long-distance tootlers like myself it would just be an ego boost rather than a performance boost to be riding some exotic material
I've owned a Trek OCLV, Cannondale CAAD 3, Lemond Zurich (Reynolds 853, not the new alum). I'm quite puzzled by one previous posting: something to the effect that a blind test concluded that there were no obsevable differences in ride quality among different frame materials. In fact, the differences in ride quality in the the three frames I've owned were quite astounding. If you factor in the different shapes and dimensions of tubing (at least partly dictated by the nature of the frame material itself), such a test would seem nonsensical.
What I see looking at this poll is that people enjoy bikes that have real souls, many of these being older steel frames. I claim that it's possible to find a bike with a soul in any given material.
It's actually not that hard to design a frame with all the same qualities in any material. You could give a bunch of different engineers different projects to design frames that flex identical amounts (which can be described as road feel). The weights of these bikes will be different but not hugely. Someone mentioned how carbon is directional, ie has a grain like wood, which allows you to do some really neat stuff with it. Not to be overlooked is butting of metal tubes, not as glamorous but it works. Aluminum is actually not stiff at all, from a materials standpoint. Aluminum bikes tend to have large diameter tubes to compensate. It really is personal preference.
It's actually not that hard to design a frame with all the same qualities in any material. You could give a bunch of different engineers different projects to design frames that flex identical amounts (which can be described as road feel). The weights of these bikes will be different but not hugely. Someone mentioned how carbon is directional, ie has a grain like wood, which allows you to do some really neat stuff with it. Not to be overlooked is butting of metal tubes, not as glamorous but it works. Aluminum is actually not stiff at all, from a materials standpoint. Aluminum bikes tend to have large diameter tubes to compensate. It really is personal preference.
I've been reading this thread for quite a while now without responding. It's very interesting to hear people's opinions on this topic!
I have ridden steel and aluminum frames and I had an aluminum/carbon bonded frame at one time too. I think there are subtle differences with each frame but I agree that it has just as much to do with how the frame is constructed as it does with what the frame is made out of.
You could make an aluminum frame that's jsut as "springy" as a steel one if you didn't mind it snapping like a twig in a relatively short time. You could make a steel frame that's just as stiff as an oversized aluminum frame if you don't mind that it weighs twelve pounds (and so on and so forth).
But I agree with you that this is subjective. That was my first thought when I saw the subject line... It's like asking: Is pizza the best food?
Makes for interesting discussion though.
I can give my analysis on the framesets that I have ridden below:
*Bottechhia- STEEL frameset- road this frame for about 2 years.... it was a mid- 1970's frame- either Columbus SL.. or SLX...... but was SOLID. It was too big for me..... and later upgraded. I would have kept this bike.... simply for a training rig..... but again, too BIG ! Nice ride though....... recommended Italian job !
*GT LTS-1 Team... full suspension 18" w/Marizochi Z-1 Bomber shock- 6061-T6 Oversized tubing....... A solid full suspension frame. Really, aluminum.... of strong guage/oversized tubes.... is good enough for Full suspension, as you have the front+rear shock absorbing much of the terain. Recommended..... if your looking for a full suspension frame. Why did I sell ?? I am a Hard-Tail guy.
*Colnago Master Ti /Bitian 1997(last year they made this frame.... because it was so costly to produce..... and Colnago was doing there best to keep up with the likes of Lightspeed/Merlain...etc. in the Ti. market). ............. A SWEET RIDE ! I just took this bike out today.... after not riding it for a few months........ and yes, its Majic. The double downtube does deflect alot of the road vibration..... and the Ti tubing is 6/4 grade ! Top tube is Diamond profile/Master style. Very Strong, yet still Very Stiff, yet very light(frame is at 3lbs. for a 56cm) , yet is very complacent...forgiving. Has the bomb-proof Colnago Steel Columbus straight bladed fork on the frame ! I highly recommend this frameset. Was only made for 2 years/'96 + '97. Previous to this, from 1992-1995 it was the called the "bititan".... which did not have the master-diamond top tube......, and I'm not sure if it was made out of the 6/4 ti. , ...... maybe it was 3/2.5 ti. ??
*LOOK KG286 Carbon Monobloc frame w/straight blade carbon fork-Steel stearer. Frame weights = 3lbs. Very similer to a Kestral 200sci ......... but better Euro geometry. Frame was only available in a 50, 53, 56, and 59cm . A solid frame overall. I have the Look carbon seatpost to go along with this frameset. It kinda rides like a Steel frame...... but thuds out any road bump along your way. It has aero shaped tubes/oversized head tube/bottom bracket/seat tube... and chain stays for better stability. The seat stays are a wish-bone design... that come up to the seat tube in a single tube section(kinda like a Colnago "B-Stay" style. I recommend the frameset......., although I may be selling this bike in about 1-2 years ..... and in place I might buy a Colnago Master Light/Olympic - for various reasons
Overall though, I do like my Colnago the best- for various reasons(material + looks + pedigree + fit ). I guess it all depends upon what you want out of a frameset. If your over 250lbs...... I would probably go for a Steel frame. If your under 200lbs...... you've got alot more options( Ti, Carbon , steel, alum. etc.). I knew a dude , older gentlemen..... that road alot..... that was about 200- 210lbs..... that road a Merlin Extra-light....... and worked for him very well. It also matters how much your willing to send $$ . In terms of road bikes, or ... probably MTB hardtails- Id greatly recommend a higher grade Titanium frame with a nice carbon fork. I'd stay away from aluminum(any grade, or quality). Aluminum just seems like a use.... and toss in the recycling bin kind of frameset ( I am not bashing anyone on this forum who rides a Al. bike..... to each his own). I just feel as though most people who do buy Aluminum do so for "weight sake"...... and do not give much thought to "ride quality = shock absorbing, etc.".. or durability....... etc. Basically, you get what you pay for much of the time. Steel, although..... still seems to be modistly priced, for what you can get out of a road frame- I recommend most, if not all Italian framesets. You could get a Seven-cycles steel frame.... but be paying out the a$$ for something that a Basso would do just as well.
AGAIN.......... its ALL about FIT on any Bicycle( that is job #1) ! Live it, Learn it , Like it
*Bottechhia- STEEL frameset- road this frame for about 2 years.... it was a mid- 1970's frame- either Columbus SL.. or SLX...... but was SOLID. It was too big for me..... and later upgraded. I would have kept this bike.... simply for a training rig..... but again, too BIG ! Nice ride though....... recommended Italian job !
*GT LTS-1 Team... full suspension 18" w/Marizochi Z-1 Bomber shock- 6061-T6 Oversized tubing....... A solid full suspension frame. Really, aluminum.... of strong guage/oversized tubes.... is good enough for Full suspension, as you have the front+rear shock absorbing much of the terain. Recommended..... if your looking for a full suspension frame. Why did I sell ?? I am a Hard-Tail guy.
*Colnago Master Ti /Bitian 1997(last year they made this frame.... because it was so costly to produce..... and Colnago was doing there best to keep up with the likes of Lightspeed/Merlain...etc. in the Ti. market). ............. A SWEET RIDE ! I just took this bike out today.... after not riding it for a few months........ and yes, its Majic. The double downtube does deflect alot of the road vibration..... and the Ti tubing is 6/4 grade ! Top tube is Diamond profile/Master style. Very Strong, yet still Very Stiff, yet very light(frame is at 3lbs. for a 56cm) , yet is very complacent...forgiving. Has the bomb-proof Colnago Steel Columbus straight bladed fork on the frame ! I highly recommend this frameset. Was only made for 2 years/'96 + '97. Previous to this, from 1992-1995 it was the called the "bititan".... which did not have the master-diamond top tube......, and I'm not sure if it was made out of the 6/4 ti. , ...... maybe it was 3/2.5 ti. ??
*LOOK KG286 Carbon Monobloc frame w/straight blade carbon fork-Steel stearer. Frame weights = 3lbs. Very similer to a Kestral 200sci ......... but better Euro geometry. Frame was only available in a 50, 53, 56, and 59cm . A solid frame overall. I have the Look carbon seatpost to go along with this frameset. It kinda rides like a Steel frame...... but thuds out any road bump along your way. It has aero shaped tubes/oversized head tube/bottom bracket/seat tube... and chain stays for better stability. The seat stays are a wish-bone design... that come up to the seat tube in a single tube section(kinda like a Colnago "B-Stay" style. I recommend the frameset......., although I may be selling this bike in about 1-2 years ..... and in place I might buy a Colnago Master Light/Olympic - for various reasons
Overall though, I do like my Colnago the best- for various reasons(material + looks + pedigree + fit ). I guess it all depends upon what you want out of a frameset. If your over 250lbs...... I would probably go for a Steel frame. If your under 200lbs...... you've got alot more options( Ti, Carbon , steel, alum. etc.). I knew a dude , older gentlemen..... that road alot..... that was about 200- 210lbs..... that road a Merlin Extra-light....... and worked for him very well. It also matters how much your willing to send $$ . In terms of road bikes, or ... probably MTB hardtails- Id greatly recommend a higher grade Titanium frame with a nice carbon fork. I'd stay away from aluminum(any grade, or quality). Aluminum just seems like a use.... and toss in the recycling bin kind of frameset ( I am not bashing anyone on this forum who rides a Al. bike..... to each his own). I just feel as though most people who do buy Aluminum do so for "weight sake"...... and do not give much thought to "ride quality = shock absorbing, etc.".. or durability....... etc. Basically, you get what you pay for much of the time. Steel, although..... still seems to be modistly priced, for what you can get out of a road frame- I recommend most, if not all Italian framesets. You could get a Seven-cycles steel frame.... but be paying out the a$$ for something that a Basso would do just as well.
AGAIN.......... its ALL about FIT on any Bicycle( that is job #1) ! Live it, Learn it , Like it
I'd like to echo another poster sentiments.::::::
Tube diameter size on the Tope and Down Tube..... are very important ! Look for frames that have oversized tubes on the top + down tube. Also, look at how the frame is proportioned. The front triangle is important..... but so is the rear-triangle(actually.... this triangle is majorly important..... since this is where a riders energy is directly transmitted to forward motion).
Shape of tubes + geometry (overall fit of the bike) ........ will greatly affect how the rider responds to the frameset. Along with frame material. If you have crappy roads where you live.... look into a steel... or Carbon bike. If you have Super-Smooth roads where you'll be doing much of your riding......... get a nice Aluminum bike ! If your not sure where your going to be riding one week to another.............. GET Titanium .
Tube diameter size on the Tope and Down Tube..... are very important ! Look for frames that have oversized tubes on the top + down tube. Also, look at how the frame is proportioned. The front triangle is important..... but so is the rear-triangle(actually.... this triangle is majorly important..... since this is where a riders energy is directly transmitted to forward motion).
Shape of tubes + geometry (overall fit of the bike) ........ will greatly affect how the rider responds to the frameset. Along with frame material. If you have crappy roads where you live.... look into a steel... or Carbon bike. If you have Super-Smooth roads where you'll be doing much of your riding......... get a nice Aluminum bike !
If your not sure where your going to be riding one week to another.............. GET Titanium .
Adam-from-SLO brings up a quality far more important that frame material: road quality. If you really care about the best ride, don't you think it's time to move to an area with better roads? Steel, Al, Ti, Carbon? Bah! How about 100 miles of freshly paved asphault or 12 miles of 1950s cracked concrete? How many pro races take place on garbage dump service roads, huh? Forget frame material and get in the game and buy a pad in a community with a big tax base.
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Thanks Harry
Great idea - certainly the A217 in Surrey is a nightmare dodging the pot holes .....
Jon
Great idea - certainly the A217 in Surrey is a nightmare dodging the pot holes .....
Jon
We have a real Ying/Yang of roads here........ super nice Hwy 1 vs. Paso "El Hotta + El crappy roads" Robles !
Makes for fun riding though...... possibly the most diverse in the world ??? Not quite the elevation of Colorado........ but........
Makes for fun riding though...... possibly the most diverse in the world ??? Not quite the elevation of Colorado........ but........
"Best" to me means best strength and performance you can get at the lightest weight and durability. Or something like that. It doesn't include cost (that's best for the price).
I've had numerous bikes of all four major materials, and I have no doubt Ti is best, by my definition. Lighter than steel, stonger, doesn't bend as easy, and won't rust. Stronger than AL and much more durable. Ride quality between Ti and steel isn't a big issue to me, it's subjective, and I love a stiff AL bike, but not every day. I went w/ Ti for the road bike because I want a comfortable, light bike that will last essentially forever. Offroad the bike is aluminum because my preference is for stiffness there (and all the suspension changes the equation).
Ultimately, of course, if you like to ride you'll enjoy a bike with nice components no matter what the frame's made of.
I've had numerous bikes of all four major materials, and I have no doubt Ti is best, by my definition. Lighter than steel, stonger, doesn't bend as easy, and won't rust. Stronger than AL and much more durable. Ride quality between Ti and steel isn't a big issue to me, it's subjective, and I love a stiff AL bike, but not every day. I went w/ Ti for the road bike because I want a comfortable, light bike that will last essentially forever. Offroad the bike is aluminum because my preference is for stiffness there (and all the suspension changes the equation).
Ultimately, of course, if you like to ride you'll enjoy a bike with nice components no matter what the frame's made of.
Especially important is a good saddle - the best I have found is Aliante (Fizik) - absolutely superb - plus Mavic Krysium SL wheels which roll and roll.
I have a lovely Al offroad Rocky Mountain Vertex TO which is silky smooth and my steel Casati Geo at the moment for the Road (plus a Ron Cooper steel frame road bike ).
What are you riding?
I've ridden a few different materials. The one I don't ride anymore is aluminum.
I had a '92 cannondale MTB that was light and stiff, but a bit too much of a brick, in terms of feel.
I've got a 1983 Trek 970 (Columbus SL). I love the bike, but it's a bit whippy feeling.
My favorite steel bike is an early 90's Lemond Maillot Jeaune (Columbus TSX). Stiff enough. Forgiving. And I love lugged frames. There's something to be said for elegance, and expertly crafted lugged steel is beautiful.
BUT.... the best! That would be my mid 90's Litespeed Ocoee. Light, stiff (unlike the early Ti frames), durable. Almost 10 years of hard riding and I may as well have bought it yesterday.
For me, Ti wins.
I had a '92 cannondale MTB that was light and stiff, but a bit too much of a brick, in terms of feel.
I've got a 1983 Trek 970 (Columbus SL). I love the bike, but it's a bit whippy feeling.
My favorite steel bike is an early 90's Lemond Maillot Jeaune (Columbus TSX). Stiff enough. Forgiving. And I love lugged frames. There's something to be said for elegance, and expertly crafted lugged steel is beautiful.
BUT.... the best! That would be my mid 90's Litespeed Ocoee. Light, stiff (unlike the early Ti frames), durable. Almost 10 years of hard riding and I may as well have bought it yesterday.
For me, Ti wins.
Thanks for the feedback - I will probably try TI next time for Road bike - Litespeed seems the overall favourite from emails I have receved
