It's killing me but..........

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Felt,

You have a Garmin Edge 800 don't you?

I'm thinking about getting one but was wondering if you need to have the map page displayed for it to announce that there's a turn or waypoint coming up (if you entered a route) or if it would display a notification on the "training" screen that shows all the number (speed, distance, power etc)

I see that it's possible to show speed and distance on the map screen, can you customize it to show power and distance?

If I remember correctly I think I have my map screen set with speed and power 3s at the top. I believe you can set any of the listed metrics on that map screen.
I believe it does have a pop up notification indicating turns and you can set for a warning beep. Bad thing is that depending on where you got the downloaded course it can sometime give the warning a bit late. It's hard for me to remember because I have a lot of that turned off. I have a number of friends that use the navigation mode, but what I like using the most is just a plain course and I follow the line on the map. Zoomed in enough I have no problem seeing the turn coming. That is why it is hard for me to remember all of the features.

I remember the first time I used navigation mode on strange roads in a big group ride. The computer was out of whack from the start because I did not exactly start at the course starting point. From that point forward it kept trying to recalculate or take me off course. Fortunately I had a big group to follow, but at a fast pace I could not turn off the warnings until we finished. It was annoying to the whole group. That was mainly my fault for not understanding how to set it up correctly for the navigation.

There are some good websites to create routes where the turning points are built into the TCX or GPX. My favorite place to create a route is ridewithgps.com

 

[Bigpikle]

Changing the subject slightly away from diet and nutrition, as its all just making me too hungry....

With my season essentially finished on Monday next week with my final TT, I cant help but start to think about how best to get ready for next season? I have some clear goals - 10 miles in <22'30 (-1 min off my PB should be tough but I think achievable given aero gains I still have to make) and to go under the hour in a 25 - as well as a plan for a 6 day 1000km ride across the Alps in Sept 14. Question in my mind is, what should I be doing now? I have a terrible habit of fizzling out in Sept/Oct after a full year, but this year I feel better physically and mentally and would like to use the next few months more wisely to build FTP/overall fitness in a way that can be maintained over winter and built further next spring.

I plan to use August exclusively for unstructured riding and have about 3 weeks of time to do just that, including vacation with the bike in France. Thats perfect for getting 1000km of good fun riding done, that will recharge the batteries, keep a smile on my face and hopefully at least keep my current fitness levels. There'll be no intervals, no plans, but just some good riding and no doubt some attempts on KOMs and PBs on climbs in France. That will be welcome after pressuring myself all year about performance!

Given that winter here typically means 4hr Sunday club rides and occasional short weekday rides supplemented by indoor work, I'm really wondering how best to use Sept/Oct? I keep thinking of this as time to build 'base' before winter but what sort of fitness improvements should I work on so far ahead of next year? Is it time to push on with efforts to build 20-60 min power or maybe build volume again rather than intensity, for those longer term gains? Or is it really something of all of those? My CTL has dropped to <70 this last week as I've really cut back volume since working exclusively on TT performances after the QBH and I'm thinking I should be aiming to ramp that back up gradually, although I know trying to hold a CTL over winter of much above 70 is pretty much impossible for me. I rode a 100 last weekend but that was the first ride of >2hrs since late June! I had no fitness issues and rode probably my fastest ever time despite just riding for fun with a club mate. My 5-25 min power is at PB levels and I guess I have a good all-round power profile. Its hard to know what I should be working on next?

I'd appreciate thoughts on what counts as 'quality' work this far out from next year?

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by Bigpikle .
...I plan to use August exclusively for unstructured riding and have about 3 weeks of time to do just that, including vacation with the bike in France. Thats perfect for getting 1000km of good fun riding done, that will recharge the batteries, keep a smile on my face and hopefully at least keep my current fitness levels. There'll be no intervals, no plans, but just some good riding and no doubt some attempts on KOMs and PBs on climbs in France. That will be welcome after pressuring myself all year about performance!....

That's a good plan. Keep riding but take the pressure and structure down a couple of notches.

Personally I ride cross in the fall but if I wasn't doing that I'd stay with the unstructured riding and take time for some other stuff like getting away with a significant other this time of year and start back in with the structure in the October/November time frame. I sure wouldn't hang up the bike for several months but I'd keep it fun and allow for other activities for a while.

Don't start a steady structured build too early as in August or early September if your more important events aren't until next spring. Keep riding, maybe even some longer and harder adventure rides than you normally do but I'd stay away from tight training schedules and too much structure for a while as it'll be a long winter and you don't want to peak in December and then burn out before the season rolls around.

-Dave

 

[swampy1970]

Bigpikle, If you have a glaring weakness that's a stand out item and puts paid to doing as well as you think you could (or should) winter is a great time to work on it. Having trouble holding the TT position under full race effort - get you 2 to 3 hour L2/3 rides done in the winter in that position. Do you have issues riding out of the saddle uphill on the TT bike (or any bike for that matter) knock it up a gear when on the hills and relax. Flexibility/core strength issues - guess when... The other thing to watch out for is club runs. Riding 5 hours in the bollock freezing cold is good for one thing, getting you used to riding in 42x15 at 18mph, which to be honest, if you want a 22 minute 10 mile TT or sub hour ride for a 25 is just slightly more useful than sitting on the couch. It is fun and it is social and at times it is good to talk. When it gets a bit too cold to ride hard but you want some miles in, it's a good option but on other days you will be better served either getting on the turbo trainer or going out on your own getting 3 hour rides in (In the drops or low on the brake hoods) and getting used to that position and being relaxed. Most people who are comfy in that position have either ridden since they were young or worked at it. You spend a lot of time trying to gain 10 watts here and there - IMHO you should spend as much time making your position as efficient if speed is required. You don't have to get super low to where a Russian pre teen gymnast would be jealous - but as tucked in as you can get and maintain a certain degree of comfort and to this end you could use cool, calm days during winter to do some powermeter based aero testing. Figure out what works and what doesn't. Sometimes oddball changes make gains you didn't expect. Sometimes the gains you get would take a fair amount of training to get through popping out some extra watts - not bad for a few hours planning what you want to test, a few more figuring how to properly rest and a few more for the test itself... To be honest, if you want to go sub-hour, you need to be doing your 2 to 3 hour efforts on the bike at 21+mph on the flat during winter. You get the aerobic training in, you'll get used to being in bigger gears and used to how they "roll" (your legs wont think "WTF" at the opening 25) and you'll be somewhat forced to get in the drops or on the tri-bars. Personally, I find it more interesting training like that as it keeps you focused without smashing your body or brains in. The other good reason for getting in the drops - you don't get as cold. Much less frontal area and associated wind chill smashing up and down the A6 in the North West during my winters in Blighty taught me that one.

 

[Bigpikle]

Thanks guys

Dave - yep, August is my 'anti-burnout' month where its just about riding around with no pressure and using some of my fitness to 'play' more than I have done this year so far. I considered CX again, as I've dabbled in the past and have a bike hanging on the wall, but last year it ended up just putting more pressure on again and as got stuck into hard high intensity training sessions to get ready for it my motivation crashed and I chucked it in. I ended up feeling like I 'ought' to be doing it rather than wanting to, so I'm going to see what happens this year and maybe have a go at a local race or 2 and see if its fun again?

Swampy - I totally get your comments on the club run thing having done them the last few years. Sadly the mix of our A group rides has changed this last year and as a result its slowed down just as my fitness has gone up, so I lost interest late spring and havent ridden one in ages. I see them really just as a good prompt to get out in winter and keep some mileage in the legs and at least bag 70 miles/200+ TSS once a week. When I first joined that group it was hard for me to keep the pace for the full distance and although a large % of time is recovery pace it still drove my fitness over longer distances. Now its just too easy, although a few of us are talking about a small group that rides slightly shorter but higher paced weekend rides with no cake stop and more like a useful training ride - we'll see...

The TT bike will be bolted to the turbo all winter for sure. I doubt it will see the tarmac often as the country roads around here dont make for very pleasant riding on the bars due to their condition, traffic, blind corners etc, so it will mostly be indoor interval work but I certainly want to work on adapting further to the position and improving aerodynamics. Thats a big key for me - the position is fairly good right now but I can do a lot better I suspect without too much effort. My similar sized and lower powered clubmate is about 30 secs faster than me on a 10 despite 25w less power, so I need to experiment more with position. He has a disc and slightly more slippery bike but its my frontal area that is the issue!

My plan for autumn was maybe to make sure I have 1 key workout each week - like a 2x20 or 2x30 L4 - just to ensure there is something to focus on and track power with, but then use the other sessions to do whatever I fancy. Work will be busy so it wont be easy to get loads done, but hopefully I will be ready for some structure and routine once the days get cold and dark again....

 

[swampy1970]

A stop at a cafe ain't a bad thing. Get some of the faster lads together and do 3 to 5 hours fairly hard with a cafe stop in there. You get the harder miles in and the social aspect too. Beans n egg on toast with a pot of tea, just what the doctor ordered. One thing you all need to agree on, as I saw this on all the faster group rides I was on is a mudguard policy. As the rides get faster, the bikes tended to get "faster" too. We ended up with the policy that no full mudguards = stuck at the back if there's spray coming off the wheels.

 

[Bigpikle]

Nobody dares turn up at one of the club rides in winter wont out mudguards - it's a pretty traditional club really with the usual rules and ways of doing things. It just lacks a good chain gang session.

 

[Felt_Rider]

It is nice not to always be under pressure for structured riding on Saturday's. I went out to my usual starting place and saw a friend that was in my old group. We had a similar goal and even had the same route in mind so we rode together. The first few miles were pretty easy as we chatted about how we have been riding, training and life interferences (work and weather). A few miles later the chatting stopped and the pace picked up. He told me at the start that he was going to ride easy and I said that was okay since I was tired from a week of intervals. Next thing I know I am seeing a lot of moments over my FTP just trying to hang on his wheel.

At mile 40 I glanced at my computer and was at 0.8 IF so it was not super hard, but a bit more than his claim of riding easy. At mile 50 going up a small hill I hear him say something behind me when I went over the crest and looked back he wasn't there. A few seconds later he rolls up saying that he cramped. Even though he is a much more powerful cyclist than me he had a fitness cramp. I knew he may have been going a little too hard based on saying he missed a lot of cycling time recently due to work commitments. I suppose he lost more fitness than he thought.

For the next 16 miles it was a really slow pace as he cramped on every little incline. He kept telling me to go ahead and not lose my training time, but I refused to leave him out there. I've been in that spot myself a number of times and have at least one out of the group sit with me or try to pull me in. My friend was struggling so bad yesterday he couldn't even sit in my draft.

I have a number of cycling friends that will not even think for a moment to come back and help anyone. I can understand if someone is nearing a very important event and every training event is crucial, but yesterday wasn't going to make much difference to me. I ended the ride with 200 TSS so the intensity in the first 40 was enough for one day especially since I plan to train today solo.

I guess it is kind of a good feeling not to have such a me first attitude all of the time, which I sometimes have. At the end my friend was very appreciative that I sat back with him to make sure he could get back okay.

When I got home and reflected on the day I felt good for helping someone, but I also thought how much better my overall endurance is compared to two years ago even if my FTP has barely gone up. I kind of like the investment made in doing a lot of solo 80 mile efforts while trying to increase intensity during those rides.

edit: I should say the investment has been weekday intervals attempting L4 and endurance rides on the weekends.

 

[jsirabella]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

IHe told me at the start that he was going to ride easy and I said that was okay since I was tired from a week of intervals. Next thing I know I am seeing a lot of moments over my FTP just trying to hang on his wheel.

felt, Again it seems the days of felt hanging off the back are over. So you are telling me you get two guys or more together and put them on bikes they have to ride hard? Wow what a surprise That is why group rides are pretty much mini-crits or races which pretty much tire out everyone and is really not as much training but training to race. If you want to have an endurance ride better to do on your own or I was lucky enough to find a rider, bike messenger friend who would ride at any pace we wanted. No need to take out the ruler and start measuring if you know what I mean. Given the way he acted, it makes you an even nicer guy to make sure he was ok.

bp, that was one thing I knew I could never get back to with my issues is CX. I really liked riding offroad and doing some hops. Great stuff. The attitude of the riders and event I was at is so different than road. Fun stuff...But every type of cycling is not for everyone and you are doing very well with road right now.

For myself yesterday was a day of riding the CT for 3 hours but I had another hour of just trying to get the TT bars and seat work for me. I ordered the Cobb saddle so I want to be ready. I am spending more time in the bars and if I can get this comfort down I will love doing more TT. Today not that sore and it feels much more comfortable in the TT bars than not.

-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by jsirabella .


felt, Again it seems the days of felt hanging off the back are over. So you are telling me you get two guys or more together and put them on bikes they have to ride hard? Wow what a surprise That is why group rides are pretty much mini-crits or races which pretty much tire out everyone and is really not as much training but training to race. If you want to have an endurance ride better to do on your own or I was lucky enough to find a rider, bike messenger friend who would ride at any pace we wanted. No need to take out the ruler and start measuring if you know what I mean. Given the way he acted, it makes you an even nicer guy to make sure he was ok.


-js

js, I guess my post came off the wrong way. This was a very good ride yesterday with my friend that simply misjudged his decline in fitness. I felt bad for him to experience this cramp as it has happened to me plenty of times. He felt bad thinking it distracted from me hitting my goal for the day. We may ride together next weekend and I am sure now that he has this one bad day out of the way it is going to be a very spirited pace. I hope I will be ready.

 

[jsirabella]

felt, based upon all your recent posts I am pretty sure that you are going to be fine with next week's ride. He on the other hand may not but I am pretty sure that given your personality that you will take it easy on him.

My point is more that you put two guys together and a couple bikes and the race begins. [SIZE= 13px]If he has not ridden for a while why did he push the tempo up? Probably been wise for some easy rides till back into it and enjoy the ride. If it was me I would let you set the pace probably. [/SIZE]

Just my 2 cents but as you said I am not there and in the end just glad you got a good ride with 200TSS which sounds like just made of good stuff.

On my front I just finished a 2 hour ride and for some reason I am feeling so comfy in the bars but once I get off and wait a while my body is sore as heck but not a bad sore so maybe this is good. I hope and will know by tomorrow.

My other dumb issue is now the weather is amazing in NYC but I have a DVD authoring due like yesterday so I have to ride in the factory and good for all the fitting but now I have NO WINDOWS HERE! We put A/C units in like every open one and the others do not open so I am either freezing or pouring buckets of sweat. Today was sweat pouring and I am tired as heck now.

[SIZE= 13px]I am much more sore for this low wattage output but with all the changes in position I am not that surprised and willing to loose some watts now till I get it all dialed in.[/SIZE]

[SIZE= 13px]-john[/SIZE]

 

[bgoetz]

Well back in one peice, myself, not so much the bike. I could write a novel about this weekend, having my friends and family watch me on a live stream, the unexplainable ora that team Cannondale gave off, how I had a front wheel blown apart @30 and somehow stayed up, just how fast some of the dudes I raced with are, or Bob Roll and his skinny jeans. I could go on forever, so raced well both days. Yesterday just a victim to bad luck and my sub par handling skills, also nasel spray before a race is a horrible idea. Today raced better than yesterday, had better luck, just could not fight (literally fight) hard enough at the end. Really just a cool weekend despite toasting another damn $800 wheel.

 

[bgoetz]

Also, Chicago is a pretty sweet town!

 

[alienator]

double post

 

[alienator]

.... also nasel spray before a race is a horrible idea.

How so? I think the general consensus is that nasal spray isn't needed as congestion tends to clear up during exercise.

 

[Bigpikle]

BG - sounds like a good few stories to be told around that weekend. I'd be far more upset than you seem to be about the amount of equipment you have got through recently

PS dont most cold remedy nasal sprays have 'naughty' ingredients? Sure i've read they can be performance enhancing for many people even without a cold?

 

[alienator]

BG - sounds like a good few stories to be told around that weekend. I'd be far more upset than you seem to be about the amount of equipment you have got through recently 

PS dont most cold remedy nasal sprays have 'naughty' ingredients? Sure i've read they can be performance enhancing for many people even without a cold?

The UCI places limits on the amount of ephedrine, pseudoephidrine, and methylephedrine than can be detected in urine. Similar restrictions exits on other stims. The performance benefits of such drugs in decongestants is minimal, at least according to research.

 

[jsirabella]

Originally Posted by bgoetz .
[SIZE= 13px] front wheel blown apart @30 and somehow stayed up, just how fast some of the dudes I raced with are, or Bob Roll and his skinny jeans.[/SIZE]

Blow apart? Hope not bad memories but what do you mean by blow apart?

For myself I was really happy with how I feel today as comfort was a big goal this weekend with the TT bars. Now I get the Cobb saddle and I try and increase the watts in that position.

On the weight front I was really surprised with the results at the end of one week. It seems I lost 3lbs and really all I had to do was make my own lunches, exchange some bad foods with good goods and a bit more control on the portions. That includes delivery and eating out yesterday at an italian restaurant for dinners. It reminds me of the weight lifting days where all I can order is chicken paillard. I am still the garbage can when my wife and daughter have large portions I suddenly have more food on my dish. I am surprised cause thought was not going to happen.

I will increase the good food intake now a bit to slow down the weight loss closer to 1-2lbs.

-john

Side Note: 3 days no energy drinks...the tea is working out, I guess. Need stronger!! Black Tea is good though.

 

[bgoetz]

I had some nasel/sinus congestion, so I decided to try to clear it out. The spray ran through my sinuses into the back of my throat and dried my mouth/throat out something awful. That combined with only being able to take a few drinks really dehydrated me. Js/BP-some dude came into my front wheel hard reacting to something that happened to his right. His shoe or pedal must have went into my spokes, but it blew apart half the spokes, some tearing clear out nipple and all. Yeah, it has been an expensive season, but considering I was doing 30+ when it happened I am happy I am not typing this from a Chicago hospital. Telling my wife I just toasted ANOTHER expensive wheel was not easy, lol.

 

[Bigpikle]

Well 2 days in and I haven't really got the hang of this unstructured riding thing - it seems that my unstructured riding is simply 'riding pretty hard'...

Something in my head is just making me ride at one effort level - hard. 2.5hrs yesterday and 2hrs today and NP of 225w for both rides, although I chose slightly lumpy routes so the AP is a little lower. Knowing I have about 2hrs somehow makes me want to ride as hard as I can sustain for that period, rather than just going with the flow. I varied the routes and rode some roads I havent been to for a while, so maybe thats part of it, but I think I need to embrace the spirit of 'fartlek' a little better and mix it up a little more. Theres no way I can keep just riding tempo every day for this sort of volume, as it will burn me out anyway, so I need to find a different approach. I ignored the power numbers today, but then just started to focus on speed instead. Maybe I need to put the Garmin in my pocket and not look at it at all?

Anyway, time for a quick thrash early tomorrow morning before 4 days forced off the bike at a manic work meeting in Chicago, and then a few days back home and time for some riding before heading to France again for a couple of weeks of holiday. That might be easier as there are lots of cafes and stunning views to stop at, but equally its roads I know well and climbs I've ridden many times and always want to PB, so I need to change my mindset I suspect.