Know what really pisses me off?

[lokstah]

Yellow ribbons, as they are INTENDED, have NOTHING to do with support or lack of support for the war. They have EVERYTHING to do with supporting YOUR country men and women who volunteer to make incredible sacrifices WHENEVER they are called to do so, and by doing so let YOU enjoy many many things that I won't elaborate on at the risk of sounding cliche. See my response to L'man's question if you previously didn't understand what the yellow ribbon meant.

I guess maybe the joke is on me here because I thought it was common knowlege what the ribbon was all about, but I am evidently wrong (not the first time of course). The ribbon is not divisive and not about taking a side.

Roadhog, I admire your respect for the purity of the yellow-ribbon practice (what you describe as their intended purpose), but I think that's a description which strips behavior of the realities of life and culture: context, communication, and so on.

In reality, whether purely positive or not, of course yellow ribbons (like any other display) are intended to communicate a message to others. "Supporting troops" isn't a pure abstraction--either it's an emotional state of affection towards soldiers, or it's a literal act, such as sending private notes, food, or calling cards. A banner on your home, or a ribbon on your car, isn't either, tradition notwithstanding--it's a means of telegraphing your association with troop support.

Is that intrinsically obnoxious? No, of course not. Nor is it inherently argumentative, preachy, soapbox-y or activist. It might have a purely benevolent intent, such as encouraging others to send calling cards. That said, you can't present a display as though it weren't a display, intended for your peers stateside to see. Absent an actual soldier-returning-home-looking-for-sweetheart's-ribbon-scenario, these displays wouldn't exist if there were no fellow citizens to either rouse or counter.

 

[roadhog]

I agree w/ you but, my contention is that the preponderance of the ribbons "least @ these parts'" are displayed on SUV's, [JEEPS (expensive, larger variety) HUMMERS], Benz's, ect... Seems like a justification for their conspicious consumption under a banner of patriotism to me.

I do understand what you are saying but think we are just going to have to agree to disagree here. My response to the observation you've made around your parts, if it is indeed the statistical case, is that we have somehow failed to educate the people who are not driving the evil cars as to what the ribbon is about. Or perhaps they are too busy toiling away at their jobs to be as aware of world events. Or perhaps this or perhaps that. Get mad at the SUV driver for driving an SUV if you want (although I will again refer to our other discussion about that topic), but don't include the ribbon as a reason to hate him/her.

 

[DiabloScott]

At the following web site: http://www.jvegas.com/Songs.TieYellowRibbn.html
you will find the lyrics to an old song from the WWII era (I believe I have the era correct, but may be wrong and it was WWI??). The song is the origin of the American tradition of tying a yellow ribbon around a tree to support our soldiers deployed to combat.

The yellow ribbon story. The tradition may go back to the Civil War, but the song came out in 1973. As with most traditions, meanings change over time.

http://www.americanfamilytraditions.com/yellow_ribbon.htm

 

[Colorado Ryder]

but don't include the ribbon as a reason to hate him/her.

Why should someone hate someone else for what they drive? Or their political affiliations, opinions, color of their skin, religious affiliation, nationality, sexual orientation etc. If you hate someone for what they drive, you've got some serious mental issues.

 

[lokstah]

The yellow ribbon story. The tradition may go back to the Civil War, but the song came out in 1973. As with most traditions, meanings change over time.

http://www.americanfamilytraditions.com/yellow_ribbon.htm

Tony Orlando, no?

 

[davidmc]

Why should someone hate someone else for what they drive? Or their political affiliations, opinions, color of their skin, religious affiliation, nationality, sexual orientation etc. If you hate someone for what they drive, you've got some serious mental issues.

Call me crazy but, when I see an 120lb woman driving @ in a 9 passenger SUV, it makes me angry . I commuted to work, & everywhere else, on a bicycle for much of the 90's after I got out of the service. Are you saying you are for profligate waste

 

[lokstah]

Call me crazy but, when I see an 120lb woman driving @ in a 9 passenger SUV, it makes me angry . I commuted to work, & everywhere else, on a bicycle for much of the 90's after I got out of the service. Are you saying you are for profligate waste

'Hate' is far too strong a word, and certainly there are much, much, much more important things to consider when deciding how you feel about someone, but naturally, if you're compiling mental data about another individual, choice of vehicle can factor in... with a grain of salt.

I'm currently driving a big honking sedan which gets miserable mileage, and that pains me. If I had my way, I'd be zipping around town in a Prius, but frankly, this is the car my wealthy Aunt had to offer me at a rock-bottom price at the moment my previous car was dying. I accepted.

So I consider the issue carefully. I have little patience for, say, Hummers and their owners: here's a grossly expensive resource-hog which gets about 8 mpg. Purchasing one and using it with regularity may not define your personality, but it drops at least small cues about how you approach conservation, road safety, image, and what not. Heck, it's meant to telegraph clues.

Car choice is a piece of the puzzle. Often a small one, yes, and sometimes a misleading one, but a valid piece.

 

[roadhog]

Why should someone hate someone else for what they drive? Or their political affiliations, opinions, color of their skin, religious affiliation, nationality, sexual orientation etc. If you hate someone for what they drive, you've got some serious mental issues.

I completely agree. See my posts in this thread here: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t224847-average-us-gas-price-tops-2-a-gallon.html to see a discussion on this same topic. I've exhausted this argument on a couple people here already who will clearly not change their mind so I'm not trying to any more.

 

[roadhog]

The yellow ribbon story. The tradition may go back to the Civil War, but the song came out in 1973. As with most traditions, meanings change over time.

http://www.americanfamilytraditions.com/yellow_ribbon.htm

Thanks for the correction diablo. I had a feeling I might have had the era wrong, but essentially still the same story. Thanks.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Call me crazy but, when I see an 120lb woman driving @ in a 9 passenger SUV, it makes me angry . I commuted to work, & everywhere else, on a bicycle for much of the 90's after I got out of the service. Are you saying you are for profligate waste

No. I'm saying it is stupid to hate someone for what they drive. I commute by bike but think its ridiculous to judge someone because they drive an SUV.

 

[davidmc]

Here's what I'm talking about-SUV's & ANWR. Georgie & ****. Check out the wheel cover.
http://www.anntelnaes.com/

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Here's what I'm talking about-SUV's & ANWR. Georgie & ****. Check out the wheel cover.
http://www.anntelnaes.com/

Still not a justification to hate someone.

 

[lokstah]

Still not a justification to hate someone.

We're talking about judgement in general, not hate. How does one ever develop an opinion of someone? I'd say it's a survey of small observations, most of which aren't thoroughly researched: the things someone does, says, and so on. Vehicle selection can be a big part of that picture. It can also be a small one. It's highly contingent on various factors, but I don't see how you could suggest that it's completely irrelevant.

 

[davidmc]

Still not a justification to hate someone.

You are thick skinned my freind. I commend you. Over 1500 dead as a result of a war of agression/choice. I, on the other hand, am bothered by it. Besides, I didn't say I hated them I said it made me angry that people choose do drive @ in these various "trophy vehicles" when they have no observable use for them.

 

[ryan_velo.]

Hey, I hate George Bush, & I have the justification for doing so. His imperialistic foreign policies make me sick, & are fraudulent at best.

 

[roadhog]

Roadhog, I admire your respect for the purity of the yellow-ribbon practice (what you describe as their intended purpose), but I think that's a description which strips behavior of the realities of life and culture: context, communication, and so on.

In reality, whether purely positive or not, of course yellow ribbons (like any other display) are intended to communicate a message to others. "Supporting troops" isn't a pure abstraction--either it's an emotional state of affection towards soldiers, or it's a literal act, such as sending private notes, food, or calling cards. A banner on your home, or a ribbon on your car, isn't either, tradition notwithstanding--it's a means of telegraphing your association with troop support.

Is that intrinsically obnoxious? No, of course not. Nor is it inherently argumentative, preachy, soapbox-y or activist. It might have a purely benevolent intent, such as encouraging others to send calling cards. That said, you can't present a display as though it weren't a display, intended for your peers stateside to see. Absent an actual soldier-returning-home-looking-for-sweetheart's-ribbon-scenario, these displays wouldn't exist if there were no fellow citizens to either rouse or counter.

My ribbon is absolutely for the soldiers, and only secondly for "my peers" here stateside to see. I have served 13 months in combat, and it absolutely makes a difference in the morale of our troops when their friends/relatives back home write them or tell them on the phone things like: "you should see all the signs of support here at home...yellow ribbons, american flags, bulletin board messages, signs in front of fast food joints, etc". It does nobody any good for them to hear things like "nobody even ackowledges that you guys are over there, you would never know the difference, no show of support for you back here, etc." The soldiers may not be here to see my ribbon, but they are still in tune enough with our society while deployed (especially with today's technology) to recognize what is going on. They very much appreciate your support.

As a secondary purpose, if people here stateside see it then maybe they will be inspired to think for a couple minutes at a stoplight behind me about our troops over there then great.

My wife can't see my wedding ring when I'm not around her either, but I still wear it. Is that supposed to be strange too?

 

[davidmc]

We're talking about judgement in general, not hate. How does one ever develop an opinion of someone? I'd say it's a survey of small observations, most of which aren't thoroughly researched: the things someone does, says, and so on. Vehicle selection can be a big part of that picture. It can also be a small one. It's highly contingent on various factors, but I don't see how you could suggest that it's completely irrelevant.

A late model used vehicle is one thing. I'm talking about shiny new 8-10 passenger behemoth's that are, by the way, banned on residential roads in California because they tear up the roads due to their sheer size.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

We're talking about judgement in general, not hate. How does one ever develop an opinion of someone? I'd say it's a survey of small observations, most of which aren't thoroughly researched: the things someone does, says, and so on. Vehicle selection can be a big part of that picture. It can also be a small one. It's highly contingent on various factors, but I don't see how you could suggest that it's completely irrelevant.

Judging someone by what they drive is also wrong. Just because one person is driving a SUV with no else in the vehicle doesn't equate in no observable use. Whats next? A walker or runner getting ****** at me because I'm cycling. Hey my bike takes resources to make and use. Besides, mr MC thinks all the SUV drivers are republicans. I got hit by an SUV last year. Had a Kerry sticker on it.

 

[davidmc]

My ribbon is absolutely for the soldiers, and only secondly for "my peers" here stateside to see. I have served 13 months in combat, and it absolutely makes a difference in the morale of our troops when their friends/relatives back home write them or tell them on the phone things like: "you should see all the signs of support here at home...yellow ribbons, american flags, bulletin board messages, signs in front of fast food joints, etc". It does nobody any good for them to hear things like "nobody even ackowledges that you guys are over there, you would never know the difference, no show of support for you back here, etc." The soldiers may not be here to see my ribbon, but they are still in tune enough with our society while deployed (especially with today's technology) to recognize what is going on. They very much appreciate your support.

As a secondary purpose, if people here stateside see it then maybe they will be inspired to think for a couple minutes at a stoplight behind me about our troops over there then great.

My wife can't see my wedding ring when I'm not around her either, but I still wear it. Is that supposed to be strange too?

I'm against the pansy politicians who started this war of choice w/ no discernable exit strategy. I don't have any beef w/ the servicemen/women. Their doing what soldiers do-following orders. I was in ops/intel (3rd & 7th Fleets), in the late 80's, so I know a little of what goes on.

 

[davidmc]

Judging someone by what they drive is also wrong. Just because one person is driving a SUV with no else in the vehicle doesn't equate in no observable use. Whats next? A walker or runner getting ****** at me because I'm cycling. Hey my bike takes resources to make and use. Besides, mr MC thinks all the SUV drivers are republicans. I got hit by an SUV last year. Had a Kerry sticker on it.

Touché'. You got me there. I'm saying the PREPONDERANCE of luxury vehicles, where I reside, "fly the "W" flag/banner".