less cars : roll on $2 per litre

[Donga]

TimC wrote:

I do wear rose-tinted glasses while cycling, but they don't work so
well when making decisions about my kids' education. That's why they
don't go to the high school. The evidence is clear enough. As for other
people's kids, yes, I'm happy for you to decide to use the high school,
good idea, saves money, easier transport etc.

(... reminding myself this is about cycling).

Donga

 

[Donga]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Your kids can take the bus just like I had to if I wanted to go
> anywhere. Won't kill 'em. Will teach 'em to manage. If they can't
> get up early enough they don't want it enough.

They do, when it works. It's 15 minutes walk, five minutes train, X
minutes wait, 10 minutes train, 20 minutes walk, X depending on how
well the trains coincide. Or 40 minutes bus once per day either way.
That's all very well, until your timetable varies a bit.

Donga

 

[SteveA]

cfsmtb wrote:
> Freight? Logistics? Unless there is a immediate shift to returning
> Australia's freight requirements back to rolling stock, we could be
> potentially in for a very rude shock regarding food prices. So why
> don't food producers grow stuff closer to the population centers??

How about your back yard? Or your front yard for that matter.

My wife has been studying nutrition as part her master's in ed. One
of the factors leading to high levels of obesity is the high cost of
fresh food vs cheap processed foods. Then the quality of the
fresh fruit and veg is deteriorating too, and we can't afford to buy
all organic.

So last week I finally got around to laying out a vege garden.
Rhubarb, cucumber, capsicum and silverbeet to start with We
already have various herbs and lettuce in with the flowers.

It craps me when people with V8s complain about the cost
of fuel. Now I am beginning to think that people with gardens
who whinge about the cost of food are much the same.

And its not just the cost differential of processed/unprocessed foods. Many people have lost the ability to turn ingredients into food. I was just in Woolworths in the city at lunchtime to re-stock the jelly snake jar in my office. I wasn't paying much attention at the check-out but there was some unusual fiddling about with bits of paper, so I looked up. The check-out chick was processing a Department for Community Development emergency purchase order for an older woman with a young boy. I glanced at their shopping - chocolate biscuits, potato chips, corn chips and other **** things. Things gotta change.

SteveA

 

[TimC]

On 2006-08-15, [email protected] (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On 14 Aug 2006 19:52:10 -0700, "AndrewJ" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Is it just my imagination, or are there actually less cars out there?
>> Seems to me that it is starting to reduce slightly.
>>
>> Roll on $2 per litre.
>
> Which means absolutely everything will cost more.
>
> Roll diesel back to 50 cents per litre.

Damn, you've convinced me.

_I hereby declarum that diesel be 50 cents per litre._

There, done.

--
TimC
``Here, sanity ... niiiiiice sanity, come to daddy ... okay, that's a
good sanity ... {*THWONK!*} _Got_ the *******.'' -- Anthony de Boer in ASR

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on 14 Aug 2006 23:57:09 -0700
Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> Your kids can take the bus just like I had to if I wanted to go
>> anywhere. Won't kill 'em. Will teach 'em to manage. If they can't
>> get up early enough they don't want it enough.
>
> They do, when it works. It's 15 minutes walk, five minutes train, X
> minutes wait, 10 minutes train, 20 minutes walk, X depending on how
> well the trains coincide. Or 40 minutes bus once per day either way.
> That's all very well, until your timetable varies a bit.

Yup, sounds familiar.

I used to look at timetables to work out bus and train routes.

You get to decide if they have to handle it or you keep paying heaps.

Maybe even find out if they want it enough.

Zebee

 

[Marx SS]

I used to think parents getting their young children participating in organised sports was like dog owners getting into dog clubs & puppy school etc. But now that I know a lot of young families, it seems like the accepted thing for what is regarded as balanced child rearing.
With the way things are with child care, work & spare time nowadays, most parents spend a majority of time with their children stuck in traffic in between ‘events’.

Prob is with Aussie lifestyle, it all revolves around the car. Imagine the viability of (Melbourne) residential estates like Point Cook & Roxburg Park if it wasn’t for the availability for the car.
And this lifestyle has been ramping up to a greater & greater extent since the ‘50s, so it’s coming as a culture shock to think that you might need to walk around to actually get things done, instead of a means to past the time.

But I don’t think that everyone should use p/t & ride a bike tomorrow. I suppose people will need to gradually consider modifications in lifestyle to account for lesser dependence on the car. Things like, living in denser, more central areas to work & family. Trend away from going across town for dinner/shopping/etc.

 

[[email protected]]

Stuart Lamble wrote:
> What we *need* is for the government to retract the funding from private
> schools (especially Catholic schools), and put it into public education.

I send my kids to a private school. It certainly isn't rich, and at
times it has come dangerously close to bankruptcy. My kids get a
good education and the teachers are amazingly dedicated. If my kids
went to the state school it wouldn't save any government funding, quite
the reverse in fact.

Not only are we committed to the education our kids receive, but
we are horrified by the techniques and environment offered in the
state system. Parents are pulling their kids out of state schools
in droves, and it isn't some sort of consumerist status thing.

 

[Stuart Lamble]

On 2006-08-15, SteveA <[email protected]> wrote:
> Many people have lost the ability to turn ingredients into food.

Word. I *love* baking ... so you can imagine just how annoyed I was when
I realised that the damn shops were selling "bread mix" instead of
"bread flour". *BIG* difference.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".

 

[deejbah]

I find it amazing that parents today are willing to drive their kids around almost to the detriment of their own lives, even when their kids are able to either walk or cycle to where they are going. The same goes for people flogging themselves to death at work so they can pay exhorbitant private school fees and clothes. I can't see how that is healthy for either parents or the children. I remember when I was a kid that whenever we played away games, there was usually car pooling or a roster system between the parents. At home games, we would often walk or ride to games.

 

[alison_b]

In aus.bicycle on 14 Aug 2006 23:57:09 -0700
Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> Your kids can take the bus just like I had to if I wanted to go
>> anywhere. Won't kill 'em. Will teach 'em to manage. If they can't
>> get up early enough they don't want it enough.
>
> They do, when it works. It's 15 minutes walk, five minutes train, X
> minutes wait, 10 minutes train, 20 minutes walk, X depending on how
> well the trains coincide. Or 40 minutes bus once per day either way.
> That's all very well, until your timetable varies a bit.

Yup, sounds familiar.

I used to look at timetables to work out bus and train routes.

You get to decide if they have to handle it or you keep paying heaps.

Maybe even find out if they want it enough.

Zebee

I don't know why people think kids *don't* do these things... one of my youngsters crosses the city umpteen times a week getting to and fro to a variety of sporting activities - sometimes by PT, sometimes on her bike, sometimes walking. But sometimes this is impossible - like a hockey match at 8pm on a Friday night in Geelong or Ballarat, and I'll borrow or hire a car. Sure, she could just not play, but only playing games that are convenient isn't much of a way for a team to be, well, a team. And there aren't alternatives at present for both her age, gender, and level. There is car pooling, but again that may not cut down much on distances travelled unless a team all live close by and near PT.

ali

 

[matagi]

On 2006-08-15, SteveA <[email protected]> wrote:
> Many people have lost the ability to turn ingredients into food.

Word. I *love* baking ... so you can imagine just how annoyed I was when
I realised that the damn shops were selling "bread mix" instead of
"bread flour". *BIG* difference.

You can find bread flour (not mix) in our local Coles supermarket, in 5kg bags even, which surprised me.

I'm another who likes to bake .... bread, cakes, biscuits (haven't bought commercially prepared biscuits for over 2 years now).

The funniest experience I ever had with the turning ingredients into food concept was when we had another light added to our pantry. The electrician, whom we new quite well, looked in the pantry and said "how come you haven't got any food in here?" I looked at the groaning shelves in complete puzzlement until I worked out he meant there was no processed food in the pantry, which indeed there never is. (with the exception of baked beans and tomato soup)

 

[Bleve]

gplama wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> > When it hits $10 a litre, what will you do?
> >
> > Seriously, this problem is not going to go away. The world *will*
> > change.
>
> The worrying part is, even if we only ride bikes, we are not immune
> from this in any way. Imagine postage/freight costs, air fairs, FOOD.
> Damn it, I like my food!

It's the last mile that hurts, or, for those of us not chained to cars,
that doesn't hurt. Transport, large-scale, is pretty efficient, it's
every moron *driving* to the stupormarket 10 times a week that adds up.

 

[Donga]

alison_b wrote:
> I don't know why people think kids *don't* do these things... one of
> my youngsters crosses the city umpteen times a week getting to and fro
> to a variety of sporting activities - sometimes by PT, sometimes on her
> bike, sometimes walking. But sometimes this is impossible - like a
> hockey match at 8pm on a Friday night in Geelong or Ballarat, and I'll
> borrow or hire a car. Sure, she could just not play, but only playing
> games that are convenient isn't much of a way for a team to be, well, a
> team. And there aren't alternatives at present for both her age,
> gender, and level. There is car pooling, but again that may not cut
> down much on distances travelled unless a team all live close by and
> near PT.

good on you alison, and good on your kid. She must be special. It's not
as easy as some people think.

Donga

 

[beerwolf]

Stuart Lamble wrote:

> Word. I *love* baking ... so you can imagine just how annoyed I was when
> I realised that the damn shops were selling "bread mix" instead of
> "bread flour". *BIG* difference.

There's a food cooperative called "Alfalfa" in Enmore Rd Newtown (Syd),
that sells Good Stuff (real flour, whole grains, organic fruit & veg, etc).
I would be very surprised if there are not a few of these places in
Melbourne, or any large city. But, you do have to hunt for them.

--
beerwolf (remove numbers from email address)

 

[AndrewJ]

Not having kids of that age, I'm only responsible for myself. I choose
to ride to work, and I choose to ride to the gym. In fact I choose to
ride, full stop.

Like the great man said "cycling is life, everything else is just the
bits inbetween".


deejbah wrote:
> I find it amazing that parents today are willing to drive their kids
> around almost to the detriment of their own lives, even when their kids
> are able to either walk or cycle to where they are going. The same goes
> for people flogging themselves to death at work so they can pay
> exhorbitant private school fees and clothes. I can't see how that is
> healthy for either parents or the children. I remember when I was a kid
> that whenever we played away games, there was usually car pooling or a
> roster system between the parents. At home games, we would often walk
> or ride to games.
>
>
> --
> deejbah

 

[Random Data]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:48:12 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> I grew vegies for a while, but various things led to the silverbeet being
> neglected. I didn't realise they could grow 8 foot tall!

I'd offer to help, but the chainsaw's too expensive to run at $1.50/l

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
"Until we understand quantum gravity, we're not going to be
running Linux on a black hole" - Seth Lloyd

 

[Random Data]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:05:30 -0700, Donga wrote:

> I could use the local high and primary schools, for demonstrably worse
> educational outcomes.

To which level? Cherry picking the elite of society, who have better
reading skills due to Mum & Dad having time and education, then relying on
Mum & Dad to provide tutoring and various other expensive bits, then
saying "we've got 25% of our students getting in the top 10%) isn't that
impressive.

There's also good evidence that public school students do better at Uni
than private school students.

Damn, I must be paying attention in lectures.

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
Like most computer techie people, I'll happily spend 6 hours trying to
figure out how to do a 3 hour job in 10 minutes. --Rev. James Cort

 

[Random Data]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:34:15 +0000, Stuart Lamble wrote:

> You're assuming that money will resolve the problem. It will in the long
> term, but only if the good teachers can be attracted to the public system.
> In the short term, it'll make diddly squat difference, especially if only
> one person does it.

The "independent" schools are doing their best to drive good teachers back
to the public system. Sure you get paid more, but when you've got
seniority and experience and get paid $5000/yr more than the
just-out-of-uni punter why would you stay.

> What we *need* is for the government to retract the funding from private
> schools (especially Catholic schools), and put it into public education.

The Catholic system attracts stuff all compared to the private schools,
and has a long tradition of being the halfway between public and private
schooling (like 100+ yrs). Why do schools charging $10k/yr for education
get a handout?

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
Frankly, your argument wouldn't float were the sea composed of mercury.
- Biff

 

[cfsmtb]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:48:12 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> I grew vegies for a while, but various things led to the silverbeet being
> neglected. I didn't realise they could grow 8 foot tall![/color]

I'd offer to help, but the chainsaw's too expensive to run at $1.50/l

Our broadbeans are heading towards that height, but are very much encouraged!

 

[Resound]

"cfsmtb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] Wrote:
>> cfsmtb wrote:
>> > Freight? Logistics? Unless there is a immediate shift to returning
>> > Australia's freight requirements back to rolling stock, we could be
>> > potentially in for a very rude shock regarding food prices. So why
>> > don't food producers grow stuff closer to the population centers??
>>
>> How about your back yard? Or your front yard for that matter.
>
> Been doing that, here's last summer effort:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/51035538080@N01/tags/gardenpixjan06/
>
> This early spring, the front yard looks like a broadbean & rocket
> factory. Other stuff: shallots, lime & apricot trees, lettuce, endives,
> peas, broccoli, spinach, chard, early potatoes. Up the back: carrots,
> bok choy, garlic, parsley, chicory, more spinach, peas & various
> herbs.
>
> More stuff to be planted soon for spring/summer.
>
>
> --
> cfsmtb
>

Damn it I *want* a place of my own. It'll happen soonish, but I want a
kitchen and garden to play with.