"Live Strong in Character - Don't Leave Your Family"



"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:

[Kunich selectively quotes, carefully eliminating all references to
"abortion" ... ]

> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
> > although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
> > who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
> > sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
> >
> > The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
> > can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
> > search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
> > something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
> > would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
> > provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
> > English translation?

>
> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or perhaps
> it isn't curious.


Isn't it odd that Kunich thinks (or pretends to think) that describing
what is actually in or not in the Bible or the Koran has something to
do with sexual orientation?

Curiously, the comments were equally about abortion, and Kunich
snipped that completely. One can only guess why. :)

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
On 8/5/05 7:49 PM, in article [email protected], "Bill Z."
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> [Kunich selectively quotes, carefully eliminating all references to
> "abortion" ... ]
>
>> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
>>> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
>>> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
>>> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
>>>
>>> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
>>> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
>>> search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
>>> something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
>>> would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
>>> provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
>>> English translation?

>>
>> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or perhaps
>> it isn't curious.

>
> Isn't it odd that Kunich thinks (or pretends to think) that describing
> what is actually in or not in the Bible or the Koran has something to
> do with sexual orientation?
>
> Curiously, the comments were equally about abortion, and Kunich
> snipped that completely. One can only guess why. :)


http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/quran-****.html
 
On 8/5/05 7:49 PM, in article [email protected], "Bill Z."
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> [Kunich selectively quotes, carefully eliminating all references to
> "abortion" ... ]
>
>> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
>>> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
>>> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
>>> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
>>>
>>> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
>>> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
>>> search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
>>> something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
>>> would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
>>> provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
>>> English translation?

>>
>> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or perhaps
>> it isn't curious.

>
> Isn't it odd that Kunich thinks (or pretends to think) that describing
> what is actually in or not in the Bible or the Koran has something to
> do with sexual orientation?
>
> Curiously, the comments were equally about abortion, and Kunich
> snipped that completely. One can only guess why. :)


http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.asp?ID=5704

The Koranic claim that homosexuality was unknown before it first appeared in
Sodom is a uniquely Islamic concept; so is the notion that its destruction
was exclusively due to the homosexual practices of its inhabitants, a
departure from the Hebrew Scriptures. In addition to the Koran many hadiths
or authoritative traditional sayings mention liwat, (homosexual intercourse)
e.g. ³When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes,² and ³Kill
the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to
(6).²  Mohammed¹s first successor Abu Bakr reportedly had a homosexual
burned at the stake. The fourth caliph, Mohammed¹s son-in-law Ali, ordered a
sodomite thrown from the minaret of a mosque. Others he ordered to be
stoned. One of the earliest and most authoritative commentators on the
Koran, Ibn ŒAbbas (died 687) blended both approaches into a two-step
execution in which ³the sodomite should be thrown from the highest building
in the town and then stoned.² Later it was decided that if no building were
tall enough, the he could be shoved off a cliff. Regardless of the exact
method,

³Moslem Jurists agree that, if proven of guilt, both of them should be
killed. However, jurists differ on the methodology of capital punishment
(7).² 

There are seven countries in the world that carry the death penalty for
homosexual acts, and all of them justify this punishment with sharia.
 
On 8/5/05 7:49 PM, in article [email protected], "Bill Z."
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> [Kunich selectively quotes, carefully eliminating all references to
> "abortion" ... ]
>
>> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
>>> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
>>> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
>>> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
>>>
>>> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
>>> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
>>> search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
>>> something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
>>> would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
>>> provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
>>> English translation?

>>
>> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or perhaps
>> it isn't curious.

>
> Isn't it odd that Kunich thinks (or pretends to think) that describing
> what is actually in or not in the Bible or the Koran has something to
> do with sexual orientation?
>
> Curiously, the comments were equally about abortion, and Kunich
> snipped that completely. One can only guess why. :)


http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_isla.htm
 
In short Mohammed said: ""Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the
one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive
partners in gay sexual intercourse) "

Bill's in really big trouble since he's been supporting terrorism and hoping
they'd do for us for a long time. And now it seems they have it in for HIM.
 
Me <[email protected]> writes:

> On 8/5/05 7:49 PM, in article [email protected], "Bill Z."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Isn't it odd that Kunich thinks (or pretends to think) that describing
> > what is actually in or not in the Bible or the Koran has something to
> > do with sexual orientation?
> >
> > Curiously, the comments were equally about abortion, and Kunich
> > snipped that completely. One can only guess why. :)

>
> http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/quran-****.html
>


Sorry I don't see it in there (which is possibly why someone called
Richard Burton "suggests" it has something to do with it, as opposed
to "stating" that it does). The references are just too vague. In
Sura IV, verse 20 is about women committing adultery (i.e., cheating
on one's spouse), and verse 21 seems to refer to basically the same
thing, with a vague reference to men. Sura VII, verse 81 seems more
about "lust" (possibly in a promiscuous sense) than anything else,
with the phrase "approach men" possibly being merely a specific
example. The ones describing "heaven" are even more vague - being
bodiless does not exactly sound very sexual.

The idea that it is really a prohibition against cheating on one's
spouse and wantoness is consistent with the cultural traditions I've
observed while visiting an Islamic country (although not in the Middle
East). People dressed far more modestly than here, and you wouldn't
expect to find night spots that are more aptly described as "pickup
joints" of the sort that you'll find in U.S. cities. On the other
hand, the Sharia (religious law of some sort that is not part of the
Koran) probably does have some real prohibitions, but I'm not familiar
with the details.

Did you find anything about abortion? I'd expect not due to medicine
at the time being kind of primative, making the procedure kind of
problematic. Anyway, thanks for the references - I did a keyword
search and found nothing, but restricted it to the web site on which I
had found the on-line copy to increase the chance that I was searching
the actual text and not what others said about the text.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Me <[email protected]> writes:

> On 8/5/05 7:49 PM, in article [email protected], "Bill Z."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > [Kunich selectively quotes, carefully eliminating all references to
> > "abortion" ... ]
> >
> >> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >>> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
> >>> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
> >>> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
> >>> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
> >>>
> >>> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
> >>> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
> >>> search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
> >>> something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
> >>> would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
> >>> provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
> >>> English translation?
> >>
> >> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or perhaps
> >> it isn't curious.

> >
> > Isn't it odd that Kunich thinks (or pretends to think) that describing
> > what is actually in or not in the Bible or the Koran has something to
> > do with sexual orientation?
> >
> > Curiously, the comments were equally about abortion, and Kunich
> > snipped that completely. One can only guess why. :)

>
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.asp?ID=5704
>
> The Koranic claim that homosexuality was unknown before it first appeared in
> Sodom is a uniquely Islamic concept; so is the notion that its destruction
> was exclusively due to the homosexual practices of its inhabitants, a
> departure from the Hebrew Scriptures.


I'm not so sure about your statements. In the translation you
referred to, <http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/quran-****.html>,for
example, Sura 29.29 stated,

"29. What! do ye approach men? (or Do you commit sexual acts
with men?) and stop folks on the highway? And approach in your
assembly sin?' but the answer of his people was only to say,
'Bring us God's torment, if thou art of those who speak the
truth!'"

but in the one I found at
<http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=617270>
it translates this as

"[29.29] What! do you come to the males and commit robbery on
the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies? But
nothing was the answer of his people except that they said:
Bring on us Allah's punishment, if you are one of the
truthful."

This translation could be taken to mean that they are Enron types -
arrogant and brazen and who will stomp on anyone.

So, I'd say that the references in the Koran aren't that clear, with
the caveat that I don't know the original language (even if it is
clear in the Sharia, which is something else, or if it occurred
somewhere else).

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
Me <[email protected]> writes:

> On 8/5/05 7:49 PM, in article [email protected], "Bill Z."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > [Kunich selectively quotes, carefully eliminating all references to
> > "abortion" ... ]
> >


> > Curiously, the comments were equally about abortion, and Kunich
> > snipped that completely. One can only guess why. :)

>
> http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_isla.htm
>


Where's the part about abortion? (And web site you mention,
BTW, says very little about the Koran, which is what we were
talking about).

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:

> In short Mohammed said: ""Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the
> one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive
> partners in gay sexual intercourse) "


Where? We were talking about the Koran specifically, not everything
Mohammed might have said.

> Bill's in really big trouble since he's been supporting terrorism and hoping
> they'd do for us for a long time. And now it seems they have it in for HIM.


Kunich is lying through his teeth as usual. If Kunich really thinks
otherwise, he should report it to the police, at which point I will
sue his ass and file criminal charges against him for making a false
report out of malice. And believe me, I can cite plenty of malice
on his part. Kunich absolutely reeks of it.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
>> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
>> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
>> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
>>
>> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
>> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
>> search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
>> something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
>> would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
>> provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
>> English translation?

>
> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or perhaps
> it isn't curious.
>
>


What are you trying to say?



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"Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> writes:

> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
> >> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
> >> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
> >> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
> >>
> >> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
> >> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
> >> search. ...

> >
> > Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or perhaps
> > it isn't curious.

>
> What are you trying to say?


He's actually saying that anyone who can do a google search or is
somewhat fimiliar with what is in the Bible or Koran (even merely as
literature that has a significant impact on our culture or the culture
of countries with whom the U.S. now has some issues) must be "gay",
particularly if they disagree with his preconceptions. You should
note that the orignal post of mine (which Kunich selectively snipped)
merely commented on how little was said about both of the religious
right wing's hot-button topics - sexual orientation and abortion - in
the Bible and the Koran.

The reality, of course, is that Kunich has a grudge against me that
has spanned well over a decade due to me not buying his anti-helmet
arguments, and much of what he says reflects his decade(s) long
history of animosity, where he has quite literally called me nearly
every name in the book, and where he has posted lies repeatedly where
I would have grounds to sue him for libel if I could show that anyone
of any importance was actually fool enough to believe him (to show
actual financial damages).

Then there is his well-documented abusive personality (as evidenced by
his posts in general and in particular by his own post mentioning a
trip to the hoosegow). You can draw your own conclusions. I've drawn
mine.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
"Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sorry I don't see it in there (which is possibly why someone called
> Richard Burton "suggests" it has something to do with it, as opposed
> to "stating" that it does). The references are just too vague.


That must be why Wahabis commonly execute homosexuals in the public squares
in Arabia.
 
"Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> In short Mohammed said: ""Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the
>> one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive
>> partners in gay sexual intercourse) "

>
> Where? We were talking about the Koran specifically, not everything
> Mohammed might have said.


Bill, if you knew anything about Islam you'd know that they don't use the
Koran as their only source for Muslim law. But plainly you don't.
 
"Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Wogster <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> >>The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
>> >>although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
>> >>who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
>> >>sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
>> >>
>> >>The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
>> >>can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
>> >>search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
>> >>something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
>> >>would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
>> >>provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
>> >>English translation?
>> > Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or
>> > perhaps it isn't curious.
>> >

>>
>> I think it's a non-starter, I really don't give a rats derriere about
>> Bill's sexual orientation.

>
> Kunich sure does. :) A few years ago he was on another of his
> homophobic rants, that time about something like "genetic mistakes"
> and he got real mad at me when I basically quipped that it is kind of
> hard to make genetic mistakes when people don't reproduce (I've yet to
> hear of guys getting other guys pregnant) unless they have superior
> genes that they are withholding from the gene pool, something I didn't
> think he wanted to claim. I thought it was a funny observation, but
> Kunich went through the roof.


Well Bill, you certainly have a lot of those kinds of stories. But strangely
enough you never seem to have a citation to back it up.
 
On 08/07/2005 10:01 PM, in article
[email protected], "Tom Kunich"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The Wogster <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
>>>>> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish men,
>>>>> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
>>>>> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
>>>>> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
>>>>> search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
>>>>> something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
>>>>> would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
>>>>> provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in an
>>>>> English translation?
>>>> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or
>>>> perhaps it isn't curious.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think it's a non-starter, I really don't give a rats derriere about
>>> Bill's sexual orientation.

>>
>> Kunich sure does. :) A few years ago he was on another of his
>> homophobic rants, that time about something like "genetic mistakes"
>> and he got real mad at me when I basically quipped that it is kind of
>> hard to make genetic mistakes when people don't reproduce (I've yet to
>> hear of guys getting other guys pregnant) unless they have superior
>> genes that they are withholding from the gene pool, something I didn't
>> think he wanted to claim. I thought it was a funny observation, but
>> Kunich went through the roof.

>
> Well Bill, you certainly have a lot of those kinds of stories. But strangely
> enough you never seem to have a citation to back it up.




Oddly enough, most of the time, neither do you.

Here's the original post to which Bill refers:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ba.transportation/msg/b2bf760a6a977cfb?h
l=en&

Here's Bill's quip, from
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ba.transportation/msg/847cb0c1d2e0ad1b?h
l=en&

"In any case, the concept of a "genetic mistake" would seem to have some
real problems with it in this instance. If, aside from sexual orientation,
gays have genes that are similar to everyone else's, then there's no
effect on the gene pool at all due to them not reproducing. Instead, you
get a lower growth rate for the species. But we already have an
overpopulation problem, so reducing the growth rate is not exactly a
bad thing in and of itself. On the other hand, if they have really
underdesirable genes, the lack of reproduction would seem to improve
the gene pool. That leaves one additional possibility: that (aside
from factors leading to sexual orientation) gays have superior genes, and
by not reproducing they are helping to eliminate these superior genes
from the gene pool. Now, that would be a real mistake, or at least a
real loss, but I don't think you want to claim that gays are for the
most part genetically superior to the rest of us, given everything
else you said :)."

Shortly thereafter, Kunich responds thusly:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ba.transportation/msg/8c3ffd81adcba38e?h
l=en&

"(Bill accusing other's of being bigoted because he likes to suck on
things.)"

Then, 3 years later, when Bill is having a discussion with Guy Chapman about
forgery, during the course of a helmet thread, Tom pops his head in and
says:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.soc/msg/0ad48062b17620b9?hl
=en

"What was that again Bill? I'm sorry I can't understand you. You'll have to
remove that penis from your mouth."

And, lest anyone accuse me of taking Bill's side in a helmet thread, I
choose to wear a helmet most of the time. I do not think that will protect
me from being injured in the case of many crashes, but it certainly can't
hurt to wear one. And I definitely don't believe in mandatory helmet laws,
so Kunich and I actually have one small basis of common ground.

Of course, that won't stop Kunich from accusing me of being a queer
somewhere along the line ... He's done it in the past, he'll do it again.



--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
 
Thanks for citing that posting in order to put the discussion into context
Steven. I see that, like Bill, you don't understand what I mean when I said
"genetic mistake" and both of you are thinking that means that somehow it is
a reproducible genetic change. In fact that ISN'T what that research I was
discussing meant at all. Not that it would mean anything at all to you, but
the fact is that along the DNA chain there are places where a break or
"error" occur more easily than in other places. The research paper I had
been discussing concerned the fact that there appeared to be that sort of
error in homosexuality.

So you'll forgive me if I didn't understand what the hell Bill was talking
about when he was saying that an error in the gene just wouldn't reproduce.
Such an idea was too stupid to understand.

But then we can go back to your expertise in Christian terrorist Terry
Nichols. I suppose when you feel the need for blaming the USA for 9/11
you'll call anyone that is required for the issue.

So you're making California wages and living in Salt Lake huh? You'll
forgive me if I chuckle. What is "California Wages"? Illegal alien farm
worker wages? Or maybe one of those gay insurance company CEO's from San
Francisco? And just to make your point - weren't you looking to give one of
those CEO jobs? Or was that some other sort of 'job'?


"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BF1CA30E.26836%[email protected]...
> On 08/07/2005 10:01 PM, in article
> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The Wogster <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> "Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Bible also does not declare homosexuality to be a capital crime,
>>>>>> although it does prohibit certain specific sex acts between Jewish
>>>>>> men,
>>>>>> who thousands of years ago could be sentenced to death for those
>>>>>> sex acts but who would not have been for their sexual orienation
>>>>>> alone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Koran appears to be completely silent on both topics from what I
>>>>>> can tell by quickly scanning an on-line copy and trying a google
>>>>>> search. It is at <http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html>. If
>>>>>> something is in there (perhaps I need to use different keywords),
>>>>>> would someone mind pointing to the relevant section? You know,
>>>>>> provide a URL to a passage in the Koran showing the literal text in
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> English translation?
>>>>> Isn't it curious how educated about homosexuality that Bill is? Or
>>>>> perhaps it isn't curious.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it's a non-starter, I really don't give a rats derriere about
>>>> Bill's sexual orientation.
>>>
>>> Kunich sure does. :) A few years ago he was on another of his
>>> homophobic rants, that time about something like "genetic mistakes"
>>> and he got real mad at me when I basically quipped that it is kind of
>>> hard to make genetic mistakes when people don't reproduce (I've yet to
>>> hear of guys getting other guys pregnant) unless they have superior
>>> genes that they are withholding from the gene pool, something I didn't
>>> think he wanted to claim. I thought it was a funny observation, but
>>> Kunich went through the roof.

>>
>> Well Bill, you certainly have a lot of those kinds of stories. But
>> strangely
>> enough you never seem to have a citation to back it up.

>
>
>
> Oddly enough, most of the time, neither do you.
>
> Here's the original post to which Bill refers:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ba.transportation/msg/b2bf760a6a977cfb?h
> l=en&
>
> Here's Bill's quip, from
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ba.transportation/msg/847cb0c1d2e0ad1b?h
> l=en&
>
> "In any case, the concept of a "genetic mistake" would seem to have some
> real problems with it in this instance. If, aside from sexual orientation,
> gays have genes that are similar to everyone else's, then there's no
> effect on the gene pool at all due to them not reproducing. Instead, you
> get a lower growth rate for the species. But we already have an
> overpopulation problem, so reducing the growth rate is not exactly a
> bad thing in and of itself. On the other hand, if they have really
> underdesirable genes, the lack of reproduction would seem to improve
> the gene pool. That leaves one additional possibility: that (aside
> from factors leading to sexual orientation) gays have superior genes, and
> by not reproducing they are helping to eliminate these superior genes
> from the gene pool. Now, that would be a real mistake, or at least a
> real loss, but I don't think you want to claim that gays are for the
> most part genetically superior to the rest of us, given everything
> else you said :)."
>
> Shortly thereafter, Kunich responds thusly:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ba.transportation/msg/8c3ffd81adcba38e?h
> l=en&
>
> "(Bill accusing other's of being bigoted because he likes to suck on
> things.)"
>
> Then, 3 years later, when Bill is having a discussion with Guy Chapman
> about
> forgery, during the course of a helmet thread, Tom pops his head in and
> says:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.soc/msg/0ad48062b17620b9?hl
> =en
>
> "What was that again Bill? I'm sorry I can't understand you. You'll have
> to
> remove that penis from your mouth."
>
> And, lest anyone accuse me of taking Bill's side in a helmet thread, I
> choose to wear a helmet most of the time. I do not think that will
> protect
> me from being injured in the case of many crashes, but it certainly can't
> hurt to wear one. And I definitely don't believe in mandatory helmet
> laws,
> so Kunich and I actually have one small basis of common ground.
>
> Of course, that won't stop Kunich from accusing me of being a queer
> somewhere along the line ... He's done it in the past, he'll do it again.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven L. Sheffield
> stevens at veloworks dot com
> bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
> ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
>
>
 
On 08/08/2005 07:27 PM, in article
[email protected], "Tom Kunich"
<[email protected]> wrote:


> So you're making California wages and living in Salt Lake huh? You'll
> forgive me if I chuckle. What is "California Wages"? Illegal alien farm
> worker wages? Or maybe one of those gay insurance company CEO's from San
> Francisco? And just to make your point - weren't you looking to give one of
> those CEO jobs? Or was that some other sort of 'job'?



Put it this way. A six-figure income goes a hell of lot further here than
it does there.

And I knew it wouldn't take long for you to call me a queer. But that's to
be expected from a self-confessed woman-beater like yourself.




--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
 
"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BF1D74A2.26920%[email protected]...
> On 08/08/2005 07:27 PM, in article
> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> So you're making California wages and living in Salt Lake huh? You'll
>> forgive me if I chuckle. What is "California Wages"? Illegal alien farm
>> worker wages? Or maybe one of those gay insurance company CEO's from San
>> Francisco? And just to make your point - weren't you looking to give one
>> of
>> those CEO jobs? Or was that some other sort of 'job'?

>
>
> Put it this way. A six-figure income goes a hell of lot further here than
> it does there.
>
> And I knew it wouldn't take long for you to call me a queer. But that's
> to
> be expected from a self-confessed woman-beater like yourself.


I calls 'em the way I see's um and I met you. I noticed that all of those
club members with me were staying out of your reach. 6 figure income indeed!
Next you'll be telling us that you converted to Seventh Day.
 
On 08/09/2005 08:02 PM, in article
[email protected], "Tom Kunich"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BF1D74A2.26920%[email protected]...
>> On 08/08/2005 07:27 PM, in article
>> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So you're making California wages and living in Salt Lake huh? You'll
>>> forgive me if I chuckle. What is "California Wages"? Illegal alien farm
>>> worker wages? Or maybe one of those gay insurance company CEO's from San
>>> Francisco? And just to make your point - weren't you looking to give one
>>> of
>>> those CEO jobs? Or was that some other sort of 'job'?

>>
>>
>> Put it this way. A six-figure income goes a hell of lot further here than
>> it does there.
>>
>> And I knew it wouldn't take long for you to call me a queer. But that's
>> to
>> be expected from a self-confessed woman-beater like yourself.

>
> I calls 'em the way I see's um and I met you. I noticed that all of those
> club members with me were staying out of your reach. 6 figure income indeed!
> Next you'll be telling us that you converted to Seventh Day.




I think they were leaving me alone because you were following me around like
a puppy. I kept trying to escape, but you had me cornered. I figured they
were just laughing at the fat old wife-beating pervert with the jug ears.

I'm not going to justify my income to you. Investment banks pay well, and I
know what my tax return says, and so does the IRS. That's all that counts.

Why would I convert to Seventh Day Adventist in the land of Zion? We're all
Saints (of the Latter Day sort) here!




--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash
 
I hadn't been monitoring this thread in days, but finally my curiosity as to
why it was still churnin' got the best of me - discovered it had gotten
x-posted into wreck.bikes.racing and entered the Kunich zone.

Have fun kiddies and don't forget to play nice!



Chris Neary
[email protected]

"Against stupidity even the gods struggle in vain" - Goethe
 

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