Chalo wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>>1. you're responding to a very obvious ma2 troll.
>>2. ma2's are easily flat-spotted because of their low profile
>
>
> I have not seen 2) to be a bigger issue with MA2s than with other rims.
that's not my experience. i have a number of [used] ma2's and they're
/all/ flat spotted.
> It seems like where shallow rims flat-spot, deep rims bulge their
> sidewalls, and neither one of these is a good thing.
stone impact, yes, but in my case, not so as you can tell. the only
real manifestation is that some spokes are at almost zero tension to
keep the rim round.
>
> Besides, aren't you the guy who says spoke gauge has an effect on ride
> quality? If you can feel that, then I don't know why you wouldn't
> prefer shallow rims since they have a much more pronounced effect on
> radial deflection. (Not that I can feel any.)
with respect, some people can't tell the difference between $2.00 wine
and $60.00 wine. the differences are real and quantifiable. whether
/you/ can tell is a matter of your perception, not whether it exists.
>
>
>>3. ma2 sockets rust
>>4. ma2's are heavy
>
>
> Open Sports are heavier.
than ma2's?
> So are most deep rims if I'm not mistaken.
open pros are 420g. that's a good deal less shallow than a 460g ma2.
>
>
>>5. ma2's /are/ anodized
>
>
> The green label kind are. The earlier red label kind are not. In any
> case they are not anodized deeply enough to etch the surface to a matte
> finish, like new silver Mavics are. Whether it has to do with the
> anodizing, the alloy, or something else, there is no doubt that new
> Mavics are substantially more crack-prone than MA2, Module 3, and
> Module 4.
but open pros use heavy anodizing, even the much maligned cd anodizing.
no cracking problems there.
>
>
>>6. machined side walls offer superior braking
>
>
> I have not found this to me the case, unless you are talking about the
> palpable blip in some non-machined rims. I do brake to available
> limits on most of my bikes, so I would exclusively use one or the other
> if I could discern a difference in braking power.
the flat wall of a new machines rim mates completely with the flat
profile of a new pad. 100% braking, day 1. a curved rim, ma2, + new
flat brake pad makes <50% contact day 1. your call on which is safer.
>
>
>>7. welded joints offer better balance
>
>
> Not an issue at the sub-500 RPM speeds we ride.
a subjective judgment. invert your bike and spin up the rear wheel on a
pinned rim vs. a good welded rim. the pinned rim has the bike lurching
around. the better balanced welded rim, not so. i know which /i/
prefer when it comes to a fast descent.
> I have
> valve-stem-mounted lights on a couple of my bikes, and I don't feel
> them at all on downhill runs up to 60mph. Needless to say, these
> lights are significantly heavier than any rim pin.
>
>
>>8. welded joints offer better mechanical strength
>
>
> Not for Mavics, they don't.
sorry, but welded joints are nearly as strong at the parent material.
that's /not/ the case with a pinned joint.
> Try to tension new welded Mavics up enough
> to carry a good load, and they will bulge at the weld before they start
> to squish at the valve hole.
dude, if you're tensioning a rim that high, you're insane and have *NO*
right to complain about equipment failure.
> That means they are demonstrably weaker
> than earlier non-welded rims in which the valve hole would be the first
> to go.
>
>
>>9. so what's wrong with single eyelet? what matters is whether they can
>>support the static & fatigue loads. many rims, campy among them have
>>/none/.
>
>
> Until Mavic sort out their eyelet cracking issues, their need for
> improvements in this regard is painfully evident. Double eyelets are
> not an automatic 100% fix, nor are they the only effective measure to
> take, but they do help.
the point is, even competitive rims without eyelets can successfully
avoid cracking, so the single vs. double argument is straw clutching.
>
>
>>10. anything else? oh yes, wear indicators. surely you can't argue
>>against that can you???
>
>
> I'm not under any illusions about the MA2 being some kind of
> extra-special rim-- I've never been able to use them myself, and my
> experience with them comes from having been a shop mechanic when they
> were an available item. But it's clear to me that the MA2 was not
> seriously flawed in in any particular way,
for those of us that have lived outside of palo alto, you know, where it
might rain occasionally, sockets that rust are a big problem. rims that
flat spot are a problem.
> unlike many if not most of
> Mavic's current offerings.
like open pro? open pros are a great rim. light, strong, doesn't
crack, doesn't rust, lasts. available in silver anodized, black
anodized, cd anodized & ceramic. no reliability problems as far as i know.
>
> The pair of MA2s I laced up for my sweetie's bike are holding up just
> fine, and show no signs of rust, flat spotting, braking anomalies, or
> any other kind of problems. I used them because they did the job while
> being much nicer looking than compaable rims I can buy new these days.
> (First, I tried to get polished 32h Sun Venus rims, but to no avail.)
>
> Chalo Colina
>