More OT!! Homeland security

[curt]

"h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
>
> > Let's try to explain this in words of
> > one syllable so that you can understand it.
>
> and
>
> > What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that someone with so
little
> > intelligence as you would EVER ask.)
>
> and
>
> > But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond your powers of
> > comprehension.
>
> what's the point of being so mean and trying to polarize everything? it
> makes my head hurt, and then i don't read your posts for the next week
> or so. curt doesn't sound like he deserves to be treated like ****.
>
> heather

Heather that was nice of you, but I really don't mind when someone talks
like this. They most likely see sense in what I had to say and are just
angry that I brought it up. They are just shouting and not saying anything.

I am of course angry at what is going on. To be honest I am sick that
people are dieing for greed. I will say this...this group overall is pretty
well read on some of this. It does make me happy. Maybe we can have a
changing of the guard in the US. Well, I like to think we have a chance to
get Bush out of there, but the NASCAR fans are many and they love him and
don't read.

Curt

 

[Tom Kunich]

Just out of curiosity how is it that you and a couple of others insist on
citing opinion and rumor as fact?

And I noted that since the Saud royal family consists of some 5,000+
members. And I asked you if you're responsible for what your relatives do.
Your answer, as far as I can make out, is that anything they do, the King is
responsible for. Strange that somehow Clinton was never responsible for
anything.

Perhaps if you narrow your vision even more you can then blame your next
door neighbor since he's closer to Osama Bin Laden than you are.

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BCB9DD29.2EB71%[email protected]...
> On 05/01/2004 10:10 PM, in article
> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:BCB9CB6E.2EB05%[email protected]...
> >> On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
> >> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> "curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>> news:[email protected]...
> >>>>
> >>>> As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you going to
> > compare
> >>>> it with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an invasion to
> > put
> >>>> someone in power to deal with us on oil.
> >>>
> >>> We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to explain this in
words
> > of
> >>> one syllable so that you can understand it. This war IS about oil. But
> > not
> >>> OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it isn't enriching
a
> >>> dictator who will use it to fund terrorism to retain his own power.
> >>
> >> If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't enriching a
dictator
> >> who uses to fund terrorism, then we'd be invading Saudi Arabia instead
of
> >> Iraq.
> >
> > Please feel free to cite anything that shows the controlling members of
Saud
> > royal family involved in any terrorist activities. Soros has more direct
> > ties with terrorism than King Ibn al-Azziz. And it is likely that you
are
> > more closely allied with terrorism than the 5,000+ member Saudi royal
> > family.
>
>
> http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/080303A.shtml
>
>
http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/884/doc
> umentid/1729/history/3,2360,884,1729
>
>
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2003/wallstreetjournal100203.htm
> l
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/13/terrorism.report/
>
> http://www.sptimes.com/2002/11/27/Opinion/The_Saudi_money_trail.shtml
>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/4/165946.shtml
>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/7/27/182314.shtml
>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/11/24/153053.shtml
>
>
>
> > But then you are completely responsible for things done by your 3rd
cousin
> > whom you've never met aren't you?
> >
> >
>
> --
> Steven L. Sheffield
> stevens at veloworks dot com
> veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
> bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
> ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
> aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
> double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
>

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Tim Lines" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8K%kc.11632$0H1.1246525@attbi_s54...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> > Please feel free to cite anything that shows the controlling members of
Saud
> > royal family involved in any terrorist activities.
>
> Please feel free to cite anything that shows Saddam was involved in 9-11.

Explain to me why you believe that terrorism shouldn't be our target but
instead only those directly involved in 9/11/01?

What is it with you guys? Isn't there anyone at home?

 

[TritonRider]

>From: "Tom Kunich" [email protected]
>Date: 5/2/2004 9:07 PM Eastern

>Please feel free to cite anything that shows the controlling members of
>Saud
>> > royal family involved in any terrorist activities.
>>

>What is it with you guys? Isn't there anyone at home?


Here's some interesting talk.
http://backspin.typepad.com/
Sunday, May 02, 2004
Worth reading today
* You know something has changed when both Kofi Annan and former PA Prime
Minister Mahmoud Abbas are calling for serious reform in Arafat's PA.

* Great staff-ed in the Dallas Morning News (req. reg.) about Saudi Prince
Bandar bin Sultan's embarrassing appearance on Meet the Press. Host Tim Russert
aired clips of a Saudi telethon that raised millions of dollars for Palestinian
terrorists, then grilled the prince about it:

An increasingly exasperated Prince Bandar either denied the accusations or said
they were part of the pre-Sept. 11 past. But Mr. Russert reminded him that the
telethon occurred in April 2003 and that a May 2003 report of the U.S.
Commission on International Religious Freedom found that official Saudi
textbooks teach children extreme hatred and intolerance of Jews, Christians and
Muslims who choose to reject the faith.
Meanwhile, the Saudi Crown Prince blamed a recent terrorist attack in Saudi
Arabia on Zionists.

Just food for thought.
Bill C

 

[Tom Kunich]

"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> That's obviously in a Koran I haven't read, or the histories of the Arab
> Peoples that I have here in the house. The Arabs were actually incredibly
> tolerant up until the crusaders showed up.

This must be some form of tolerance with which I'm not familiar: In fact
under the Prophet, war was made against ALL of their neighboring tribes.
Islam was spread especially during it's early stages by the sword. The fact
is that when someone is about to cut your throat and all you have to do to
save yourself is to recite, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his
Prophet" you are likely to have a very high conversion rate. They conquered
by the sword Persia and Demascus among many, many others. They captured by
force and ruled over the greater part of Spain.

They argued among themselves for the power and murdered each other in fits
of jealously. Shi'ite and Sunni split under such a situation and they
murdered each other to this very day. The Ottoman Turks took the religion to
heart since it gave them permissoin to murder everyone in their way which
they proceeded to achieve. Ask the

(Quraysh were a group of powerful Meccans) From "The Life of Muhammad", page
212, by A. Guillaume: " When Quraysh became insolent towards God and
rejected His gracious purpose, accused His prophet of lying, and ill treated
and exiled those who served Him and proclaimed His unity, believed in His
prophet and held fast to His religion, He gave permission to His apostle to
fight and to protect himself against those who wronged them and treated them
badly......[a]
The meaning is "I have allowed them to fight only because they
have been unjustly treated while their sole offense against men has been
that they worship God. When they are in the ascendant they will establish
prayer, pay the poor-tax, enjoin kindness, and forbid iniquity, i.e., the
prophet and his companions all of them." Then God sent down to him: "Fight
them so that there be no more seduction," i.e. until no believer is
seduced from his religion. "And the religion is God's,", i.e. Until God
alone is worshipped.""

(If you read that again especially note: "Until God alone is worshipped."
which was the permission given to kill ALL non-believers. What was the
difference between the extreme persecution that Mohammed put up with while
living in Mecca and that persecution which he would NOT put up with after he
moved to Medina? That fact that he then had, essentially, an army.)

From Guillaume, page 369: "The apostle said, "Kill any Jew that falls into
your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish
merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him.
Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother.
When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of
God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his
wealth?' Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him
ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'"

Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 19, Number 2996:

"The Apostle of Allah said: If you gain a victory over the men of Jews,
kill them."

(You'll have to forgive me if I take "religion of peace" with a grain of
salt.)

Take this little incident from Mohammad's life for instance: "The shepherd
and the Muslim man both identified themselves as members of the same Arab
clan. Prior to going asleep, the shepherd said that he would never become a
Muslim. Umayya waited for the shepherd to fall asleep, and thereafter:

"as soon as the badu was asleep and snoring I got up and killed him in a
more horrible way than any man has been killed. I put the end of my bow in
his sound eye, then I bore down on it until I forced it out at the back of
his neck."

Umayya returned and spoke with Muhammad. He relates......."He [Muhammad]
asked my news and when I told him what had happened he blessed me".

(Can you imagine a priest blessing a follower for this?)

Since you have a Holy Ku'ran in the house look this up:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day,
nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited,
nor follow the religion of truth, of the people of the Book,
until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves
subdued."

"The people of the Book" are Christians and Jews who hav ethe Bible.
"Jizya" was some sort of tax placed against Christians and Jews alone.

And even this wouldn't save Christians or Jews save only a minority of the
time.

Remember that the Bukari is the second book next to the Holy Ku'ran

"I heard Allah's messenger saying, "During the last days there will appear
some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will
not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out
from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find
them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of
Resurrection."

(From ABC news)

U.S. troops will leave Saudi Arabia when Islamic terrorists "send the bodies
of American troops and civilians home in wooden boxes and coffins," Osama
Bin Ladin vowed in an exclusive interview with ABC NEWS Correspondent John
Miller. "We don't differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms
and civilians. They are all targets in this fatwa."

Need any more?

 

[Tom Kunich]

"curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c8%[email protected]...
>
> What does Iraq have to do with terrorism?

After some of your other postings I should have expected that. In fact, Iraq
funded and was funding terrorism all over the world. Hamas was getting
funding as was Abu Nidal and many many others. Even in the throes of defeat
Saddam Hussein was paying off UN officials with as much as $6,000,000,000
American to look the other way while he spread terror still wider.

> Do you know that Osama bin Laden hated Sadaam?

Did you know that ****** hated both Mussolini and Japanese?

> I thought we were after Osama for 9/11?

And I thought we wanted to stop terrorism. Apparently you want to put a
bandage on the knife wound while the rest of us are interested in stopping
the assault.

> Do you really think we would give a **** about Iraq if there was no oil
> there?

Why is it that you don't have any idea of what oil means? You drive a car,
fly in a plane and ride on boats. You heat your house, demand air
conditioning in your place of business or school and want your food well
cooked, fresh and plentiful.

But apparently you are incapable of connecting your own gluttony to oil. Nor
to the power that such oil revenues give to dictators who would abuse those
riches.

No, silly child, we don't want their oil. But we do want it to be freely
available to everyone without giving excesses of power to evil. To you Iraq
wasn't evil despite the hundreds of thousands tortured to death.

Since you don't understand it perhaps you ought to just leave the worrying
to adults and crawl back into your crib.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> what's the point of being so mean and trying to polarize everything? it
> makes my head hurt, and then i don't read your posts for the next week
> or so. curt doesn't sound like he deserves to be treated like ****.

My appologies for your headache Heather. But the point is that I can't
tolerate this sort of stupidity any longer. I'm tired to death of the same
assholes who are driving SUV's at 90 mph in the fastlane talking on their
cell phones and making appointments for lunch at the "Top of the Mark"
telling us that the war is all about oil as if they weren't the prime
consumers causing it.

You know, I detest Clinton and surely believe that he should have killed Bin
Laden when he had the chance. But I don't blame him because he didn't.
History is the record of things that should have been done but weren't. It
wasn't the Allies fault that they didn't stop ****** at the Sudatenland or
Poland because they too had to allow the evil to spread to everywhere before
asses like "curt" would be convinced that he ought to get his nice clean
hands dirty.

Finally we're taking actions that should have begun in 1975 and it isn't
anyone's fault from then until now that it took that long. And if jerks like
"curt" believe differently than let him go over there and try to discuss it
rationally with the terrorists.

 

[curt]

Tom I must tell you, you really have a strange way of looking at things. I
am glad you think our invasion of Iraq will stop terrorism. Good for you.
I personally think it will work in reverse. Bush of course wants the
American people to live in fear because his advisors told him that he will
have a better chance to get re-elected if people are living in fear and they
will not want to make a change at the helm.

Iraq had no military to speak of, and they are NO threat to us in any way.
As far as terrorism goes it is and will be everywhere and has nothing to do
with Iraq. We have plenty of terrorism within our own boarders and the US
backs plenty of terrorism abroad. How soon you forget we backed Osama and
we back all kinds of terrorist all the time, like Sharon.

The US is in the worst shape on a global level in my lifetime. We are not
liked by many. I know that means nothing to people like you, but it will
have a very negative impact on our country. Even in a financial way, since
that has the most meaning to people like yourself Clinton, the man you
hate, was on much better terms with the world. Bush is arrogant and is
hated globally.

If you took a poll around the world and asked, what is the most dangerous
country, the answer would be the US. I talk to people all around the world
and many feel we are headed up by a war monger. I would have to agree. Who
knows who we will invade next?

Go on and think we are going to stop terrorism by invading Iraq and putting
someone in place to deal oil to us in a favorable manner. I find that
laughable.

As far as needing oil because I ride in a car. No I don't need to fly, boat
in a smudge pot...I would sail, and whatever else. If people were as
efficient as I live, we would need no foreign oil to be honest. I can ride
my bike to the local food co-op and walk most places I need to go. There
are plenty of other ways to heat a home, but people like you are too busy
worrying about how you are going to make your next payment on your H2.

No get back to your NASCAR show or whatever. I will go back to my crib.
Curt


"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news%[email protected]...
> "curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:c8%[email protected]...
> >
> > What does Iraq have to do with terrorism?
>
> After some of your other postings I should have expected that. In fact,
Iraq
> funded and was funding terrorism all over the world. Hamas was getting
> funding as was Abu Nidal and many many others. Even in the throes of
defeat
> Saddam Hussein was paying off UN officials with as much as $6,000,000,000
> American to look the other way while he spread terror still wider.
>
> > Do you know that Osama bin Laden hated Sadaam?
>
> Did you know that ****** hated both Mussolini and Japanese?
>
> > I thought we were after Osama for 9/11?
>
> And I thought we wanted to stop terrorism. Apparently you want to put a
> bandage on the knife wound while the rest of us are interested in stopping
> the assault.
>
> > Do you really think we would give a **** about Iraq if there was no oil
> > there?
>
> Why is it that you don't have any idea of what oil means? You drive a car,
> fly in a plane and ride on boats. You heat your house, demand air
> conditioning in your place of business or school and want your food well
> cooked, fresh and plentiful.
>
> But apparently you are incapable of connecting your own gluttony to oil.
Nor
> to the power that such oil revenues give to dictators who would abuse
those
> riches.
>
> No, silly child, we don't want their oil. But we do want it to be freely
> available to everyone without giving excesses of power to evil. To you
Iraq
> wasn't evil despite the hundreds of thousands tortured to death.
>
> Since you don't understand it perhaps you ought to just leave the worrying
> to adults and crawl back into your crib.
>
>

 

[Henry Etta]

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BCB9CB6E.2EB05%[email protected]...
> On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you going to compare
>> it
>>> with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an invasion to put
>>> someone in power to deal with us on oil.
>>
>> We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to explain this in words
>> of
>> one syllable so that you can understand it. This war IS about oil. But
>> not
>> OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it isn't enriching a
>> dictator who will use it to fund terrorism to retain his own power.
>
>
>
> If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't enriching a dictator
> who uses to fund terrorism, then we'd be invading Saudi Arabia instead of
> Iraq.
>
> Where is Osama bin Laden from? Saudi Arabia.
> Where were 14-15 of the 9-11 terrorists from? Saudi Arabia.
> Where does most of Al Qaeda's funding come from? Saudi Arabia.
>
> So why are we invading Iraq?

God told Bush to do it?

Henry Etta

 

[Henry Etta]

"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> >From: "Tom Kunich" [email protected]
>>
>> >But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond your powers of
>> >comprehension.
>>
>> Tom, I'll Give him Sharon is a war criminal and several people here can
>> confirm that I've said the POS should be strung up. I bet he protested
>> the
>> kilings of the Hamas murderers. Israel has never denied the Palestinians
> right
>> to exist. What has been the Arab view on Israel? Oops they can say that
> they
>> intend to kill all of them because they are an "oppressed" people.
>> I'll agree they have been screwed over by the west, and the catholic
> church in
>> particular over the centuries, but the Jews are also a semitic population
>> native to the area. This is nothing but religious persecution and civil
> war.
>
> Sharon? What the hell has he to do with anything? Do you suggest that
> Israel
> is doing the wrong thing by killing the leaders of a group who have been
> strapping explosives onto women and children to set them off in hordes of
> innocent shoppers? Do you forget that one of the prime commandments of
> Mohammed after he entered Medina was "kill all Jews". Followed shortly by
> "the way to heaven is to kill all unbelievers."

Tom have you ever heard of the Crusades?

Tell us about them.

Henry Etta

 

[Henry Etta]

"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> That's obviously in a Koran I haven't read, or the histories of the Arab
>> Peoples that I have here in the house. The Arabs were actually incredibly
>> tolerant up until the crusaders showed up.
>
> This must be some form of tolerance with which I'm not familiar: In fact
> under the Prophet, war was made against ALL of their neighboring tribes.
> Islam was spread especially during it's early stages by the sword. The
> fact
> is that when someone is about to cut your throat and all you have to do to
> save yourself is to recite, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his
> Prophet" you are likely to have a very high conversion rate. They
> conquered
> by the sword Persia and Demascus among many, many others. They captured by
> force and ruled over the greater part of Spain.
>
> They argued among themselves for the power and murdered each other in fits
> of jealously. Shi'ite and Sunni split under such a situation and they
> murdered each other to this very day. The Ottoman Turks took the religion
> to
> heart since it gave them permissoin to murder everyone in their way which
> they proceeded to achieve. Ask the

Tom have you read the Bible?

Slaves, obey your human masters in everything, not only when being watched,
as currying favor, but in simplicity of heart, fearing the Lord.
(Colossians 3:22 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions



While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled
themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited
them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were
feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was
joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze
against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize
all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so
his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses
ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping
Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman
into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they
were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of
Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the
assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent.
Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the
woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not
before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to
kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to
do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not
a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred
young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the
camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan...

There is more, much more! <G>

Henry Etta

 

[Henry Etta]

"h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>
>> Let's try to explain this in words of
>> one syllable so that you can understand it.
>
> and
>
>> What has terrorism to do with it you ask? (Not that someone with so
>> little
>> intelligence as you would EVER ask.)
>
> and
>
>> But a simple perusal of history seems to have been beyond your powers of
>> comprehension.
>
> what's the point of being so mean and trying to polarize >everything?

Ah, it's ok heather, Tom's just not too bright! <G>

Henry Etta



> it
> makes my head hurt, and then i don't read your posts for the next week
> or so. curt doesn't sound like he deserves to be treated like ****.
>
> heather

 

[Davey Crockett]

"Henry Etta" <[email protected]> writes:

> "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BCB9CB6E.2EB05%[email protected]...
>> On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
>> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> "curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you going to compare
>>> it
>>>> with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an invasion to put
>>>> someone in power to deal with us on oil.
>>>
>>> We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to explain this in words
>>> of
>>> one syllable so that you can understand it. This war IS about oil. But
>>> not
>>> OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it isn't enriching a
>>> dictator who will use it to fund terrorism to retain his own power.
>>
>>
>>
>> If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't enriching a dictator
>> who uses to fund terrorism, then we'd be invading Saudi Arabia instead of
>> Iraq.
>>
>> Where is Osama bin Laden from? Saudi Arabia.
>> Where were 14-15 of the 9-11 terrorists from? Saudi Arabia.
>> Where does most of Al Qaeda's funding come from? Saudi Arabia.
>>
>> So why are we invading Iraq?
>
> God told Bush to do it?
>
Is that god in the yellow belt?

http://members.rogers.com/davey_crockett/bye_bye_basra.jpg

--
le Vent a Dos
Davey Crockett
Six-Day site: http://members.rogers.com/sixday/sixday.html

 

[Robert Chung]

Henry Etta wrote:
>
> There is more, much more! <G>

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/religious_tolerance/dt13_13-15.html

 

[JP]

[email protected] (TritonRider) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Palestinians haven't been screwed over by "the west". They've been screwed
> over by their Arab brothers since 1948 and even before that. Palestinians
> came to this country for education, success and a chance for peaceful lives
> and achieved that in spades.
>
> That I agree with in spades. The wealthy arab countries have done little to
> nothing to make life better for the Palestinians. There has been a lot of talk
> but the money trail, and physical effects tell a different story.

Your opinion doesn't matter. The Palestinians think that the West took
their land after WWII and used it to create a homeland for the Jews
displaced by the war, and that the West has taken the side of Israel
ever since. I think the evidence is (based on the land for peace
proposal put out by the Saudis and the Camp David negotiations) that
creation of a Palestinian state accompanied by complete Israeli
withdrawal to the pre-1967 borders will result in a peace settlement
and recognition of Israel that will completely maginalize (although
not immediately eliminate) the Israeli extreme rightwing and the
Palestinian terrorists.

The Palestinians believe based on what they experience on a daily
basis that the Israelis have no regard for Palestinian lives or
property, and that they will take them away without regard to age, sex
or relative innocence.

The fact is, there are horrors being committed by both sides. Both
sides seem to feel that if they can perpetrate enough horrors against
the other they will win, but the Israelis will never win until they
withdraw to their 1967 borders and stop using bulldozers and high
explosive munitions in crowded civilian neighborhoods, and the
Palestinians will never win until they adopt the strategy of Gandhi
and reject terror.

JP

 

[Henry Etta]

"Davey Crockett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:87oep5yksg.fsf@cpe000423176ea9-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com...
> "Henry Etta" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:BCB9CB6E.2EB05%[email protected]...
>>> On 05/01/2004 09:25 PM, in article
>>> [email protected], "Tom Kunich"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as comparing this to any other war, what are you going to
>>>>> compare
>>>> it
>>>>> with? WW2? LOL Please. This is not a war, it is an invasion to put
>>>>> someone in power to deal with us on oil.
>>>>
>>>> We needn't go any further than this. Let's try to explain this in words
>>>> of
>>>> one syllable so that you can understand it. This war IS about oil. But
>>>> not
>>>> OUR "control" of it but the free flow of it so that it isn't enriching
>>>> a
>>>> dictator who will use it to fund terrorism to retain his own power.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If this war was about a free flow of oil that wasn't enriching a
>>> dictator
>>> who uses to fund terrorism, then we'd be invading Saudi Arabia instead
>>> of
>>> Iraq.
>>>
>>> Where is Osama bin Laden from? Saudi Arabia.
>>> Where were 14-15 of the 9-11 terrorists from? Saudi Arabia.
>>> Where does most of Al Qaeda's funding come from? Saudi Arabia.
>>>
>>> So why are we invading Iraq?
>>
>> God told Bush to do it?
>>
> Is that god in the yellow belt?

Quite possibly!

Henry Etta

 

[Sam]

"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tim Lines" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:8K%kc.11632$0H1.1246525@attbi_s54...
> > Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > > Please feel free to cite anything that shows the controlling members
of
> Saud
> > > royal family involved in any terrorist activities.
> >
> > Please feel free to cite anything that shows Saddam was involved in
9-11.
>
> Explain to me why you believe that terrorism shouldn't be our target but
> instead only those directly involved in 9/11/01?
>
> What is it with you guys? Isn't there anyone at home?
>
>

The Saudi family members have been funding Al Qaeda for years. Also they
have been sending money to the families of "Palestinian" suicide-homicide
bombers for years. This has been documented.

The jury still seems to be out on the Iraqi-9/11 connection. There are
still rumors of meetings between Iraqi security people and Al Qaeda
operatives. Wasn't Abu Nidal living in Iraq for a while. Saddam was also
giving money to "Palestinians" to kill Jews.

 

[Sam]

"curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom I must tell you, you really have a strange way of looking at things.
I
> am glad you think our invasion of Iraq will stop terrorism. Good for you.
> I personally think it will work in reverse. Bush of course wants the
> American people to live in fear because his advisors told him that he will
> have a better chance to get re-elected if people are living in fear and
they
> will not want to make a change at the helm.
>
> Iraq had no military to speak of, and they are NO threat to us in any way.
> As far as terrorism goes it is and will be everywhere and has nothing to
do
> with Iraq. We have plenty of terrorism within our own boarders and the US
> backs plenty of terrorism abroad. How soon you forget we backed Osama and
> we back all kinds of terrorist all the time, like Sharon.
Sharon a terrorist. What do you call Arafat?
We backed Osama only in the sense that he and many many others were
fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. I have never seen anything that says
the US specifically was supporting Osama.
Iraq has harbored terrorist and supported the PLO--a terrorist
organization (since it "oversees" Hamas).

>
> The US is in the worst shape on a global level in my lifetime. We are not
> liked by many. I know that means nothing to people like you, but it will
> have a very negative impact on our country. Even in a financial way,
since
> that has the most meaning to people like yourself Clinton, the man you
> hate, was on much better terms with the world. Bush is arrogant and is
> hated globally.
>

The US has been hated by one group or another from decades. US economy
is in fine shape. Unemployment is about where it was at this point in
Clinton's first administration.

> If you took a poll around the world and asked, what is the most dangerous
> country, the answer would be the US. I talk to people all around the
world
> and many feel we are headed up by a war monger. I would have to agree.
Who
> knows who we will invade next?

This statement is Kerry-esque! "I talk to people all over the world".
I agree many Muslims hate us. Why? We have freedoms and people seem to
like many of our products. Funny how many people hate us, but do not mind
taking our money. I have a proposal: If 50% of a country dislikes the US,
they get no US aid. Then you will hear the whining about how we are
abandoning our standing as the richest country in the world.

>
> Go on and think we are going to stop terrorism by invading Iraq and
putting
> someone in place to deal oil to us in a favorable manner. I find that
> laughable.
>
> As far as needing oil because I ride in a car. No I don't need to fly,
boat
> in a smudge pot...I would sail, and whatever else. If people were as
> efficient as I live, we would need no foreign oil to be honest. I can
ride
> my bike to the local food co-op and walk most places I need to go. There
> are plenty of other ways to heat a home, but people like you are too busy
> worrying about how you are going to make your next payment on your H2.
No, but you need oil to get that food to your beloved co-op, unless
everything there is grown within a couple of miles and brought in by horse
and wagon. If the US wanted the Iraqi oil, we could have 1) taken it when
we were there in 1991 or 2) voted to lift all UN sanctions. Either one
would have been easier than another war.

>
> No get back to your NASCAR show or whatever. I will go back to my crib.
> Curt
>
>
> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news%[email protected]...
> > "curt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:c8%[email protected]...
> > >
> > > What does Iraq have to do with terrorism?
> >
> > After some of your other postings I should have expected that. In fact,
> Iraq
> > funded and was funding terrorism all over the world. Hamas was getting
> > funding as was Abu Nidal and many many others. Even in the throes of
> defeat
> > Saddam Hussein was paying off UN officials with as much as
$6,000,000,000
> > American to look the other way while he spread terror still wider.
> >
> > > Do you know that Osama bin Laden hated Sadaam?
> >
> > Did you know that ****** hated both Mussolini and Japanese?
> >
> > > I thought we were after Osama for 9/11?
> >
> > And I thought we wanted to stop terrorism. Apparently you want to put a
> > bandage on the knife wound while the rest of us are interested in
stopping
> > the assault.
> >
> > > Do you really think we would give a **** about Iraq if there was no
oil
> > > there?
> >
> > Why is it that you don't have any idea of what oil means? You drive a
car,
> > fly in a plane and ride on boats. You heat your house, demand air
> > conditioning in your place of business or school and want your food well
> > cooked, fresh and plentiful.
> >
> > But apparently you are incapable of connecting your own gluttony to oil.
> Nor
> > to the power that such oil revenues give to dictators who would abuse
> those
> > riches.
> >
> > No, silly child, we don't want their oil. But we do want it to be freely
> > available to everyone without giving excesses of power to evil. To you
> Iraq
> > wasn't evil despite the hundreds of thousands tortured to death.
> >
> > Since you don't understand it perhaps you ought to just leave the
worrying
> > to adults and crawl back into your crib.
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Tom Kunich]

So tell me Henry, when was the last time that the God of the Jews or
Christians told them to murder Muslims?

Today there are thousands of mullahs who tell their followers every single
day that the way to heaven is by killing all non-believers.

"Henry Etta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%illc.20027$Ik.1504033@attbi_s53...
>
> "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> That's obviously in a Koran I haven't read, or the histories of the
Arab
> >> Peoples that I have here in the house. The Arabs were actually
incredibly
> >> tolerant up until the crusaders showed up.
> >
> > This must be some form of tolerance with which I'm not familiar: In fact
> > under the Prophet, war was made against ALL of their neighboring tribes.
> > Islam was spread especially during it's early stages by the sword. The
> > fact
> > is that when someone is about to cut your throat and all you have to do
to
> > save yourself is to recite, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is
his
> > Prophet" you are likely to have a very high conversion rate. They
> > conquered
> > by the sword Persia and Demascus among many, many others. They captured
by
> > force and ruled over the greater part of Spain.
> >
> > They argued among themselves for the power and murdered each other in
fits
> > of jealously. Shi'ite and Sunni split under such a situation and they
> > murdered each other to this very day. The Ottoman Turks took the
religion
> > to
> > heart since it gave them permissoin to murder everyone in their way
which
> > they proceeded to achieve. Ask the
>
> Tom have you read the Bible?
>
> Slaves, obey your human masters in everything, not only when being
watched,
> as currying favor, but in simplicity of heart, fearing the Lord.
> (Colossians 3:22 NAB)
>
> Kill Followers of Other Religions
>
>
>
> While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled
> themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited
> them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were
> feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel
was
> joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze
> against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses:
"Seize
> all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so
> his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses
> ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping
> Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite
woman
> into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they
> were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of
> Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left
the
> assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent.
> Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the
> woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but
not
> before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)
>
> 1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
>
> So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to
> kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are
to
> do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is
not
> a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred
> young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the
> camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan...
>
> There is more, much more! <G>
>
> Henry Etta
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

[JP]

"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> So tell me Henry, when was the last time that the God of the Jews or
> Christians told them to murder Muslims?
>
> Today there are thousands of mullahs who tell their followers every single
> day that the way to heaven is by killing all non-believers.

Seems to me that there are plenty of people, Muslim, Christian and
Jew, that are rationalizing their hatred of other faiths based on
their distorted understanding of their own religion's teachings. Seems
pretty clear to me that Bush thinks he is on a mission from God to do
something (bring democracy or capitalism or whatever the hell it is)
in the Middle East that could not be accomplished without the killing
of thousands of Muslims, many of whom were just as innocent of any
crime as the people who were in the WTC on 9/11.

JP