newbie bike question - how to tell if bike chain is worn too much

[Stephen]

Hi there
Just thought I would ask here to see if anyone had any advice.
I bought a bike about 8 months ago from a local bike store. Last time I took
it into be serviced I was told that the chain was worn and that I needed a
new one. I was told that it was at .9 wear (whatever that is) and I should
replace it within a month for $50 (for a better quality german chain) .

Me being cheap went to another bike store that had a 20% sale of bike stuff.
There I was told that it wasnt that worn and that I shouldnt replace just
the chain and I shouldnt even take the chain off at all. He went on to say
that they were just using a chart or somthing that said that its time to get
a new chain even if it dosnt need one. He said clean my chain with a car
wash degreaser spray and leave it where it was on the bike
He then pulled my bike chain a little to see how loose it was, which didnt
move that much.

Who to believe??
Bike store number 1 who gave me a quote off $320 to fix my mountain bike
that I wore pretty much everything out off and then 2 months later told me
$700
Or bike store number 2 that is a competitor
Thanks
Stephen

 

[Jose Rizal]

Stephen:

> Hi there
> Just thought I would ask here to see if anyone had any advice.
> I bought a bike about 8 months ago from a local bike store. Last time I took
> it into be serviced I was told that the chain was worn and that I needed a
> new one. I was told that it was at .9 wear (whatever that is) and I should
> replace it within a month for $50 (for a better quality german chain) .
>
> Me being cheap went to another bike store that had a 20% sale of bike stuff.
> There I was told that it wasnt that worn and that I shouldnt replace just
> the chain and I shouldnt even take the chain off at all. He went on to say
> that they were just using a chart or somthing that said that its time to get
> a new chain even if it dosnt need one. He said clean my chain with a car
> wash degreaser spray and leave it where it was on the bike
> He then pulled my bike chain a little to see how loose it was, which didnt
> move that much.
>
> Who to believe??
> Bike store number 1 who gave me a quote off $320 to fix my mountain bike
> that I wore pretty much everything out off and then 2 months later told me
> $700
> Or bike store number 2 that is a competitor

Run away from both and don't come back.

Get a $2 ruler and measure the distance between 12 links. If this
length is 12", you're laughing. If it's more than 12" but less than 12
1/16", you're smiling. If it's more than 12 1/16" but less than 12
1/8", it's time to replace the chain, but your cassette and chainrings
will most likely be still ok. If it's more than 12 1/8", there's a good
chance you might need to replace your cassette, and you might have to
check your chainrings depending on how long you've been riding with the
12 links over 12 1/8".

If you replace your chains before you reach the 12 1/16" limit, your
cassette should outlast at least two chains, likely three, and
chainrings should outlast several cassettes (steel ones last a lot
longer than aluminium ones).

If you have worn out your cassette, just get a new one with a new chain.
If you need to get new chainrings as well, then get that but it
shouldn't cost anywhere near $700 to replace these items, even if you
throw in other consumables such as brake pads and cables.

 

[Fred Nieman]

Heya Stephen,

Jose R said all the stuff you need to know about chain, and front and
back cogs wear that you need to know, so what I'm posting is just
additional to that.

The first thing that will wear out on your "running gear" is...

Glossary time. "Running gear" means, in practical terms, mostly the
greasy bits attached to your bike that go round when you pedal - the
chain, the front gears ("chain-rings", "front sprockets"), and the back
gears ("cassette", "rear sprockets", "free-hub", "gears"). These are
the bits that wear out soonest and so need changing.
But technically "running gear" also includes the stuff that changes the
gears, the "front derailleur" that changes the gears where the pedals
are, and the "rear derailleur" that changes the gears at the back of
your bike where they are attached to the back wheel.

(Glossary time, take 2. Add all of that "running gear" together and add
brake/gear shifter levers, brakes, cranks and maybe pedals and a bike's
"gooseneck" and you've got a "gruppo" or "group-set".)

(Glossary time done, now.)

The first thing that will wear out on your "running gear" is the chain.
You'll find this out when your chain breaks, leaving you pedaling air.
This means it's time to buy a new chain.
Your Local Bike Shop ("LBS") will tell you that when you buy a new
chain, it's also time to buy new front gears and back gears. They are
right, and they are wrong.
Your bike will run good as new with a new chain, and new front and rear
gears, if you have the $ to buy all three.
That's fine and dandy if you want to shell out the $. Truth is, a new
chain with old gears works fine. Until, that is, it starts "skipping
gears". You press down on the pedals, and skkkrt, the gears don't want
to engage.
Time to buy a new "cassette", "rear sprockets", "free-hub", "gears".
You can buy a cassette tool, or get your LBS to fix them. And let's
just skip the cassette gear ratios thing here, for simplicity's sake.
Fine and dandy for a while... but now your front gears are skipping...
the cog teeth don't look like \_/ but little shark's teeth \/.
Check if your bike's front chain-rings have bolts that can undo the
three chain-rings, or they are riveted to the pedals' cranks. If they
are riveted to the pedals' cranks, then, ummm... buy a new bike. If
they have bolts that you can undo... visit your LBS and buy a new middle
(MTB) or little (road) crank ring...

A mid-standard chain lasts about 8 000 km. Mid-standard cassette lasts
about 10 000 km. Mid-standard (ish) 34-tooth MTB or 42-tooth road alloy
chainring lasts about 14 000 km.

Summary:
* if your LBS says your chain is stretched, but you have no problems, do
nothing;
* if your chain snaps, buy a new chain;
* if your bike skips its back gears
- if you have recently bought a new chain, just get new back gears
- if you haven't recently bought a new chain, buy a new chain and new
back gears
* if you have replaced your chain and back-gear stuff, your front gears
should be fine, but if they skrkkrk, get a new 34 or 42 tooth front
chain-ring.

ps: a rear "derailleur" wears out and becomes flibby-flabby after about
20 000 km. A front "derailleur" wears out, etc, after about 40 000 - 50
000 km.

***
p


Stephen wrote:
>
> Hi there
> Just thought I would ask here to see if anyone had any advice.
> I bought a bike about 8 months ago from a local bike store. Last time I took
> it into be serviced I was told that the chain was worn and that I needed a
> new one. I was told that it was at .9 wear (whatever that is) and I should
> replace it within a month for $50 (for a better quality german chain) .
>
> Me being cheap went to another bike store that had a 20% sale of bike stuff.
> There I was told that it wasnt that worn and that I shouldnt replace just
> the chain and I shouldnt even take the chain off at all. He went on to say
> that they were just using a chart or somthing that said that its time to get
> a new chain even if it dosnt need one. He said clean my chain with a car
> wash degreaser spray and leave it where it was on the bike
> He then pulled my bike chain a little to see how loose it was, which didnt
> move that much.
>
> Who to believe??
> Bike store number 1 who gave me a quote off $320 to fix my mountain bike
> that I wore pretty much everything out off and then 2 months later told me
> $700
> Or bike store number 2 that is a competitor
> Thanks
> Stephen

 

[amirm]

Stephen wrote:
> Hi there Just thought I would ask here to see if anyone had any advice.
> I bought a bike about 8 months ago from a local bike store. Last time I
> took it into be serviced I was told that the chain was worn and that I
> needed a new one. I was told that it was at .9 wear (whatever that is)
> and I should replace it within a month for $50 (for a better quality
> german chain) .
> Me being cheap went to another bike store that had a 20% sale of bike
> stuff. There I was told that it wasnt that worn and that I shouldnt
> replace just the chain and I shouldnt even take the chain off at all. He
> went on to say that they were just using a chart or somthing that said
> that its time to get a new chain even if it dosnt need one. He said
> clean my chain with a car wash degreaser spray and leave it where it was
> on the bike He then pulled my bike chain a little to see how loose it
> was, which didnt move that much.
> Who to believe?? Bike store number 1 who gave me a quote off $320 to fix
> my mountain bike that I wore pretty much everything out off and then 2
> months later told me $700 Or bike store number 2 that is a competitor
> Thanks Stephen

Hi Stephen. After detailed responses posted by Jose and Fred, I thought
I would give you some non-technical but still lengthy (!!) perspective.

On a general note, what counts when it comes for overhaul is the actual
condition of the bike components (in this case chain, rear cassette
and/or front chain rings). If you think you do not have the technical
experience/knowledge to judge for yourself, you will need a bike
mechanic's opinion. Since there are a minority that would rather entice
customers to spend unnecessary dollars, I'd suggest you find a reliable
bike shop first. If you're going to be into riding regularly, you won't
escape this fact.

Now, the length of time is not relevant to determine the time for
overhaul. It is the actual mileage and the conditions of ride plus the
grade of components quality to start off with. One may ride over 5000 km
in 8 month and another may ride only a 100 km. Besides, riding in dirt
and rain wears the drivetrain a lot faster, especially if they are not
cleaned and lubricated properly after such rides.

So rather than being confused, just think about your ride history over
the past 8 months, and take your bike to your trustworthy mechanic
(once you found one) and see the assessment. From this you start to
learn for yourself.

I myself, use a combination of Ultegra and 105 components, and change my
chain every 2000-2500 km of riding in dry conditions. I'd say this is a
perfectionist approach. On my hybrid bike, I just went lousy and changed
the chain after 6,500 km. I also needed to cahnge the rear cassette.
Front chain rings were still in good condition. Before the change, the
gear was still running well except that rear gear change started to get
sluggish. I'd say I could have gone a couple of thousand km before it
started to get into trouble. The lubrication was always properly done.
This might give you some idea.






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[Stephen]

Thank you for the replies
I use the bike (a specialised hardrock) for transit to and from work (18-19
km round trip 5 days a week) as I dont have a car
I have done about 2800 km on it, missing out on maybe a months of bike
riding when I fell off and fractured my scaffoid
I havnt noticed the chain slipping much at all , Though it sometimes is a
little slow to change gears.
Im guessing with their quote off $700 to fix my bike(the first one that I
wore the components out of a avanti barracuda) that this bike store might
be a little untrustworthy??

So maybe clean the chain real good with turps (remove chuck in the bottle
and shake) and lightly oil and ignore the bike store for now?
Stephen
sorry bout the doublepost too newsgroups were playing up

 

[amirm]

Stephen wrote:
> Thank you for the replies I use the bike (a specialised hardrock) for
> transit to and from work (18-19 km round trip 5 days a week) as I dont
> have a car I have done about 2800 km on it, missing out on maybe a
> months of bike riding when I fell off and fractured my scaffoid I havnt
> noticed the chain slipping much at all , Though it sometimes is a little
> slow to change gears. Im guessing with their quote off $700 to fix my
> bike(the first one that I wore the components out of a avanti barracuda)
> that this bike store might be a little untrustworthy?? So maybe
> clean the chain real good with turps (remove chuck in the bottle and
> shake) and lightly oil and ignore the bike store for now? Stephen sorry
> bout the doublepost too newsgroups were playing up

With 2800 km, the chain may need to go. But before that, as you plan, it
wouldn't hurt at all to clean and lubricate it to see how it performs.
Unless it is filled with grit or mud, you wouldn't really need to break
the chain in order to clean it. Just apply the lubricant and wipe the
chain. If necessary repeat untill it looks clean. Chain rings and
cassette can be wiped as well.

In any case, $700 to fix the gear shifting problem with or without
changing the chain sounds rediculous.

The slow response in gear change can be due to different things. It
doesn't necessairily mean that your chain is worn. I can name the length
of the chain, condition and tension of cable and adjustment and
condition of derailleur as primary factors to consider first.





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[Fred Nieman]

Stephen wrote:
>
> Thank you for the replies

Mutual. But as I said before, I'm just adding to what other folks
said...

> I use the bike (a specialised hardrock) for transit to and from work (18-19
> km round trip 5 days a week) as I dont have a car

Body weak... mind strong..., must... not... recommend... Critical Mass
or... Reclaim the Streets...

> I have done about 2800 km on it, missing out on maybe a months of bike
> riding when I fell off and fractured my scaffoid

Ouch! (Wrist-bones... Apparently there was a Bug Report about this sent
to God/Allah/insert name of your manifestation of the Divinity here,
sometime around 1880 when bicycles became widely popular - seems there
was a glitch with the BUI ("bicycle user interface", natch) in that
collarbones healed quickly and fine, but scafoids were very problematic
when the BUI "crashed"...)

> I havnt noticed the chain slipping much at all , Though it sometimes is a
> little slow to change gears.

This might be because the gear lines (most probably the line to your
back gears) are dryish, aren't lubricated enough.
Try this:

- get your bike into its lowest rear gear (meaning the biggest cog at
the back, the one closest to the wheel)

- then, without pedaling or anything, flip the right-hand gear lever to
its highest rear gear. The rear gear line will go all floppy, and you
can move the plastic-over-spriralled-steel gear "outers",
-- 1) DOWN from where the "outer" goes to the handlebars to past where
it is connects to the frame of your bike; and,
-- 2) UP from where the bare gear cable goes into the "outer" to where
it connects with the rear "derailleur" (gear shifting thingy with two
little gear-wheel things);

- lubricate* the gear cables where the front and back "outers" would
otherwise be;

- then slip the gear cable "outers" back to where they were before;

- flip the right-hand gear lever to the lowest rear gear;

- lift the back wheel up and give the pedals a few pushes to make sure
it's all ok;

- watch some TV, read a book, etc, then go to bed;

- ride to work with gears that are much better behaved.

* "lubricated"?
This mostly means grease. There are dedicated bike gear- and
brake-cable greases, but "Low Melting Point" car grease works fine (I
borrow a dob of this from my LBS-s whenever I change over a gear- or
brake-cable.) Nevertheless, bike shop chain-oil, sewing-machine oil
from a supermarket is OK; even salad oil (same for a squeaky chain) will
do at a pinch. Go the grease option, long-term, tho.


> Im guessing with their quote off $700 to fix my bike(the first one that I
> wore the components out of a avanti barracuda) that this bike store might
> be a little untrustworthy??
>

Maybe they probably just want to give you the level of service that a
self-confessed noob with $ would expect, which I guess is their bread
and butter. When something goes wrong with the bike, perhaps you could
ask to buy the tools (and ask for advice about how) to repair it instead
of getting them to do it. Maybe buy a bike repair book (any
suggestions, ng?). Sounds like you already want to service your own
bike...

> So maybe clean the chain real good with turps (remove chuck in the bottle
> and shake) and lightly oil and ignore the bike store for now?

Not turps, unless you are lubrication your chain with oil paint! It
might remove some of the gunk, but it won't really work all that well.
Kerosene or just plain petrol will clean all the gunk off, at a pinch,
but citrus oil based cleaners are lots more environmentally friendly
(ok, I guess this means, still environmentally ugly, but less than kero
or gas) and work 90% as well. You can buy them at your LBS (a spray-pak
by "Finish Line" is a product that comes to mind) but you can get just
as good results with "Citro-Clean" that you can buy in the supermarket.
And another bonus is they are water-soluble, and smell nice, unlike (on
both counts) kero and petrol.

> Stephen
> sorry bout the doublepost too newsgroups were playing up

***
p

ps: sorry 'bout the "I know everything" post too, brain were playing up

 

[Stephen]

> > I have done about 2800 km on it, missing out on maybe a months of bike
> > riding when I fell off and fractured my scaffoid
>
> Ouch! (Wrist-bones... Apparently there was a Bug Report about this sent
> to God/Allah/insert name of your manifestation of the Divinity here,
> sometime around 1880 when bicycles became widely popular - seems there
> was a glitch with the BUI ("bicycle user interface", natch) in that
> collarbones healed quickly and fine, but scafoids were very problematic
> when the BUI "crashed"...)
Scaffoid - one of the worst bones in the body to damage apparently
It is a funny shape and some of it has a very poor blood supply so if you
damage the wrong part it dosn't heal that well or at all. I spoke to maybe
5 - 10 people at work (a servo) who came in with similar sorts of cast and
2/3 of them said that their wrist didnt heal the first time. One guy said he
had a cast on for 2 years (he had a removable fibreglass cast so he could
wash it), waiting for elective surgery to remove the scaffoid altogether but
he said he shattered his real good on a motorbike. With me ? well its been
10 months almost and my wrist still hurts somtimes when I bend it, my cast
was on for 10 weeks. One other person said that they took a piece of bone
out of his hip and replaced or grafted or somthing like that the damaged
part of the scaffoid because the bone had died in his wrist. The best thing
about it for me was I was directly on my way to work so workcover covered
it - would have been 1-2000 otherwise.

"Body weak... mind strong..., must... not... recommend... Critical Mass
or... Reclaim the Streets..."
im actually not that strong in body to ride a bike everwhere Im a little
unstable and driving cars freaks me out so its walk or ride or public
transport
Stephen
stuff you maybe didnt want to know.....
thanks again for the answers