Obituary for David G. Groves



Bay Area Dave wrote:

> what problem(s) did DGG have with Humulin that he didn't
> have with animal insulin?

Hi Dave,

Dave G had unpredictable hypoglycemia that caused two car
accidents. This happens to a subset of T1s as the anti-
insulin antibody concentration lowers when these T1s switch
from beef to human rDNA. The process takes about 3-5 years
to bottom out and stabilize. This was in the Diabetes Care
article you downloaded from my web site last year.

HTH,
--
Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely
hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate
exercise, typically <6% HbA1c
 
perhaps he should have checked his bg's more often, and
certainly before driving, or while driving for long periods.
Wouldn't that have been the sensible and prudent thing to
do, knowing how he had hypo unawareness? Too bad he isn't
here to explain himself. Did he ever try pumping to level
out his bg's?

dave

Jim Dumas wrote:

> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>
>>what problem(s) did DGG have with Humulin that he didn't
>>have with animal insulin?
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Dave G had unpredictable hypoglycemia that caused two car
> accidents. This happens to a subset of T1s as the anti-
> insulin antibody concentration lowers when these T1s
> switch from beef to human rDNA. The process takes about
> 3-5 years to bottom out and stabilize. This was in the
> Diabetes Care article you downloaded from my web site
> last year.
>
> HTH,
 
Bay Area Dave wrote:

> perhaps he should have checked his bg's more often, and
> certainly before driving, or while driving for long
> periods. Wouldn't that have been the sensible and prudent
> thing to do, knowing how he had hypo unawareness? Too bad
> he isn't here to explain himself. Did he ever try pumping
> to level out his bg's?

I think this was before the small BG meters came out in the
late 1980s.

I had an AccuChek 2 that stayed at home when I was first
dx'd. So it was a craps shoot when 5pm rolled around and it
was time to drive 45 minutes north on I-95 to get home.

His major accident was going home in Miami after work
about 1987.

So we can't judge by today's standards,
--
Jim Dumas T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely
hypoglycemic: <1/mo. lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate
exercise, typically <6% HbA1c
 
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> perhaps he should have checked his bg's more often, and
> certainly before driving, or while driving for long
> periods. Wouldn't that have been the sensible and prudent
> thing to do, knowing how he had hypo unawareness?

Dave, as I recall it, when Dave had his forst accident,
there wasn't much known about unawereness caused by human
insulins as they'd only been on the market for a short
period. I can easily see how ONE accident could have
occured, as I told Dave himself, but I never could
understand how another one could. I still can't either.

As a diabetic who's known for running relatively low BGs (me
that is) I never drive before testing and I never get in the
car without my esting gear AND a healthy supply of
provisions. (It's become a standing joke with my pals, my
"provisions bag":)

I don't drive unless my sugar is 5 or higher and I test
frequently even if I feel perfectly Ok.

> Too bad he isn't here to explain himself.

He did try explaining at one time. I'm sure his posts (on
this NG) will be archived to.

Did he ever try pumping to
> level out his bg's?

I don't think he did, but he did try VERY hard to ensure the
continued supply of his beloved beef. To no avail as it
turned out, but he never gave up the fight until the very
end. you've got to admire him for that alone, even if his
tactics weren't well thought out.

Beav
 
thanks for responding, beav. sounds like you and I use the
same precautions. I've always got my little blue ***** pack
with glucagon and several rolls of glucose tablets, along
with my meter. I can drive and check my bg's quite handily,
having done it thousands of times over the years. I steer
with my knees for a second.

I've accidentally left my home twice in about 14 years
without a meter. First time I did that I had a job
interview. That was NOT a fun day. I was extremely nervous
not knowing what my bg's were doing. Just to be safe, I
popped a few tablets. Of course it turned out I was high at
the time but I didn't want to take the chance of getting low
and "stupid" during the interview. Since I've been pumping I
haven't needed to use the Glucagon. Before pumping I used it
3 or 4 times. DGG sounds as if he was pretty well tortured
by his DM, as was I on MDI.

dave

Beav wrote:

> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>perhaps he should have checked his bg's more often, and
>>certainly before driving, or while driving for long
>>periods. Wouldn't that have been the sensible and prudent
>>thing to do, knowing how he had hypo unawareness?
>
>
> Dave, as I recall it, when Dave had his forst accident,
> there wasn't much known about unawereness caused by human
> insulins as they'd only been on the market for a short
> period. I can easily see how ONE accident could have
> occured, as I told Dave himself, but I never could
> understand how another one could. I still can't either.
>
> As a diabetic who's known for running relatively low BGs
> (me that is) I never drive before testing and I never get
> in the car without my esting gear AND a healthy supply of
> provisions. (It's become a standing joke with my pals, my
> "provisions bag":)
>
> I don't drive unless my sugar is 5 or higher and I test
> frequently even if I feel perfectly Ok.
>
>
>>Too bad he isn't here to explain himself.
>
>
> He did try explaining at one time. I'm sure his posts (on
> this NG) will be archived to.
>
> Did he ever try pumping to
>
>>level out his bg's?
>
>
> I don't think he did, but he did try VERY hard to ensure
> the continued supply of his beloved beef. To no avail as
> it turned out, but he never gave up the fight until the
> very end. you've got to admire him for that alone, even if
> his tactics weren't well thought out.
>
> Beav
 
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> thanks for responding, beav. sounds like you and I use the
> same precautions. I've always got my little blue *****
> pack with glucagon and several rolls of glucose tablets,
> along with my meter. I can drive and check my bg's quite
> handily, having done it thousands of times over the years.
> I steer with my knees for a second.

I've even done it while I was flying a helicopter:) I gave
up testing on the move though, coz my first "shot across the
bows" is always a long time before the incoming gets close
enough for me to duck. If I'm in any doubt though, I'll eat
a mini "Bounty" bar and if I'm high, I'll just be a bit
higher for a few minutes;-)
>
> I've accidentally left my home twice in about 14 years
> without a meter.
>First time I did that I had a job interview. That was NOT a
> fun day.

Been there too-) (Not the job interview, but a hospital
appointment), and if there's ANYWHERE you don't want to be
without your testing gear, it's a piggin' hospital!!:)

> I was extremely nervous not knowing what my bg's were
> doing. Just to be safe, I popped a few tablets. Of
> course it turned out I was high at the time but I didn't
> want to take the chance of getting low and "stupid"
> during the interview.

Of COURSE it turned out you were high, could it be any
other way:))))

Since I've been pumping I haven't needed
> to use the Glucagon. Before pumping I used it 3 or 4
> times. DGG sounds as if he was pretty well tortured by his
> DM, as was I on MDI.

DG was tortured by the human insulin and all it's pitfalls
for sure. I'm also sure he's in a small minority that don't
do well on GM insulins, but FOR that small minority, there
should be easy access to the insulin that works for them.
Dave's fight was for those people.

Beav
 
> Jim Dumas
>> Bay Area Dave wrote:

>>>what problem(s) did DGG have with Humulin that he didn't
>>>have with animal insulin?

>> Hi Dave,

>> Dave G had unpredictable hypoglycemia that caused two car
>> accidents. This happens to a subset of T1s as the anti-
>> insulin antibody concentration lowers when these T1s
>> switch from beef to human rDNA. The process takes about
>> 3-5 years to bottom out and stabilize. This was in the
>> Diabetes Care article you downloaded from my web site
>> last year.

3-5 years? Good God! Is it really as long as that?

> perhaps he should have checked his bg's more often, and
> certainly before driving, or while driving for long
> periods.

That's an appalling thing to suggest. It's like blaming the
victim. It _is_ blaming the victim. The sensible thing to do
would have been to go back to sensible (for him) insulin.

> Wouldn't that have been the sensible and prudent thing to
> do, knowing how he had hypo unawareness?

No. Did he know that? Since when has bodily self-abuse ever
been a sensible thing to do? It can cause profound
psychological damage.

> Too bad he isn't here to explain himself. Did he ever try
> pumping to level out his bg's?

> dave

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany) Email: [email protected]; to
decode, wherever there is a repeated letter (like "aa"),
remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").
 
"Alan Mackenzie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Jim Dumas
> >> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
> >>>what problem(s) did DGG have with Humulin that he
> >>>didn't have with animal insulin?
>
> >> Hi Dave,
>
> >> Dave G had unpredictable hypoglycemia that caused two
> >> car accidents. This happens to a subset of T1s as the
> >> anti-insulin antibody concentration lowers when these
> >> T1s switch from beef to human rDNA. The process takes
> >> about 3-5 years to bottom out and stabilize. This was
> >> in the Diabetes Care article you downloaded from my web
> >> site last year.
>
> 3-5 years? Good God! Is it really as long as that?
>
> > perhaps he should have checked his bg's more often, and
> > certainly before driving, or while driving for long
> > periods.
>
> That's an appalling thing to suggest. It's like blaming
> the victim. It _is_ blaming the victim. The sensible thing
> to do would have been to go back to sensible (for him)
> insulin.

But that wasn't an option. He'd been switched because the
"new and improved" insuon was all that was available to him
>
> > Wouldn't that have been the sensible and prudent thing
> > to do, knowing how he had hypo unawareness?
>
> No. Did he know that?

Apparently not at the beginning, but after the first
accident he did.

Beav
 
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