Offensive Toyota Commercial



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"Stephen Harding" <[email protected]> wrote

>
> Put the tailgate back on for a gain of 1-2 mpg (highway). The idea that you get better mileage
> without it is not true. You'll do even better if you put a tonneau (cover) over the bed.

I've not heard that theory before. How does the tailgate up get better mileage than tailgate down?

Pete
 
I have but one word: Tivo.

Harris wrote:

> Have you seen the latest TV ad for Camry? This guy is "driving" his new Camry like a maniac on
> somehow deserted freeways in an urban environment. He drives backwards, skids sideways, and weaves
> across three or more lanes in obvious ecstasy. The tag line is, "My car makes the road feel like
> my playground."
>
> Is this what sells cars? Incedible! I sure don't want to be around someone with an attitude like
> that when I'm out riding my bike.
>
> Art Harris

--

Tp

-------- __o ----- -\<. ------ __o --- ( ) / ( ) ---- -\<. ----------------- ( ) / ( )
---------------------------------------------

Freedom is not free; Free men are not equal; Equal men are not free.
 
Antti Salonen <[email protected]> wrote:

>Buck <j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m> wrote:
>
>> While lauded for the sheer audacity of the idea, a recent article in Motorcyclist suggests that
>> it is not likely to ever be produced. During the photo shoot, they locked the suspension so it
>> couldn't turn. During the straight-line passes, the rider (a dirt bike champion) barely turned
>> the throttle (for obvious reasons). If it were to go into production, the estimated price would
>> be $250,000. While Dodge estimates the top speed to be 400mph, others suggest this is more than a
>> bit optimistic. 500hp in a 1,500lb machine makes for great press, but isn't likely to become a
>> reality for even the well-heeled collector.
>
>If the thing really weighs as much as 1,500 pounds, the power to weight ratio isn't anything
>unheard of. Formula One race cars without the driver and fuel weigh a bit more than 500 kg (1,100
>lbs) and the most powerful engines in those put out 900 hp. They certainly don't go anything like
>400 mph, although they are obviously never set up with only straight-line speed in mind.

F1 cars (and other similar cars) are limited by the aerodynamic aids required to pull MUCH more than
1g in the curves. Those wings (and open tires) are NOT very aero - far from it, actually. I'm sure
the Tomahawk is a lot cleaner aerodynamically than any F1 car, but also would guess that there's no
way in the world the Tomahawk would ever get NEAR 400mph. I've seen other estimates of the top speed
at closer to 300mph, which probably makes sense.

That's still a lot faster than I'd want to go on something so "experimental".

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Stephen Harding" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> >
> > Put the tailgate back on for a gain of 1-2 mpg (highway). The idea that you get better mileage
> > without it is not true. You'll do even better if you put a tonneau (cover) over the bed.
>
> I've not heard that theory before. How does the tailgate up get better mileage than tailgate down?
>
> Pete

I read a comparison a number of years ago where they tested mileage in several different trucks with
and without their tailgates. Which was better? It depended on the truck. Some got better mileage
with the tailgate installed, others with it removed. My Mazda gets slightly better mileage with the
tailgate installed (1 to 2 mpg better).

I googled it and found this: http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1997/October/05.html

-Buck
 
The expression "desperately in need of a life" comes to mind.

Art, it's just a silly commercial trying to get people's attention. That's all.

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist, Visual Basic programmer)
"Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Have you seen the latest TV ad for Camry? This guy is "driving" his new Camry like a maniac on
> somehow deserted freeways in an urban environment. He drives backwards, skids sideways, and weaves
> across three or more lanes in obvious ecstasy. The tag line is, "My car makes the road feel like
> my playground."
>
> Is this what sells cars? Incedible! I sure don't want to be around someone with an attitude like
> that when I'm out riding my bike.
>
> Art Harris
 
"Stephen Harding" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Zoot Katz wrote:
>
> > Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Hopping into a performance car out on a NV/UT/CA dry lakebed and just letting everything hang
> > >out would be loads of fun.
> > >
> > >For a while anyways.
> >
> > A good way to get this out of your system is buy yourself some advanced driving courses. What
> > you learn there can be applied to normal driving at regulated speeds too.
>
> Well if one must be totally responsible in everything they do, this is certainly the way to go.
>
> However I have a friend who did exactly this, and whether it improved his driving skills or not I
> can't say. It did make him believe he no longer needed to pay strict attention to speed limits
> though. Those were only for "normal" (unskilled?) motorists.
>
> Come on ZK, admit it! Wouldn't you be doing a few donuts and 120 mph runs across the flats if you
> had a shot, even if only for a a brief few minutes, until your sense of social responsibility
> regained control?
>

I have way more fun doing 10-20 foot high jumps and smacking the lip of a 5-10 foot wave when
windsurfing.
 
Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> What, you think any non-masochists ride mountain bikes? ;-)

Well, I /was/ lusting after one of you're MTB frames. Now I may have to redirect my affections
towards your cross frames. Can't be labeled a masochist now, can I.

--
Wayne Menzie
 
"Buck" <j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m> wrote

>
> I read a comparison a number of years ago where they tested mileage in several different trucks
> with and without their tailgates. Which was
better?
> It depended on the truck. Some got better mileage with the tailgate installed, others with it
> removed. My Mazda gets slightly better mileage with the tailgate installed (1 to 2 mpg better).
>
> I googled it and found this: http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1997/October/05.html
>
> -Buck

Interesting. Please return your tailgate to the upright and locked position.

Pete
 
"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Buck" <j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m> wrote
>
> >
> > I read a comparison a number of years ago where they tested mileage in several different trucks
> > with and without their tailgates. Which was
> better?
> > It depended on the truck. Some got better mileage with the tailgate installed, others with it
> > removed. My Mazda gets slightly better mileage with the tailgate installed (1 to 2 mpg better).
> >
> > I googled it and found this: http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1997/October/05.html
> >
> > -Buck
>
> Interesting. Please return your tailgate to the upright and locked
position.
>
> Pete

It also has the added benefit of keeping the tailgate on the truck. A friend of mine used to keep
the tailgate down on his truck. After working the evening shift one night, he forgot about a set of
railroad tracks on the way home and crossed them a bit too fast. It was fortunate that one of the
cables remained connected. It was unfortunate that the tailgate popped out of the hinges and the
other cable let go. He dragged the tailgate for several hundred feet before getting stopped.

Also, keeping it in the upright position and locked with a tailgate lock will keep it from getting
stolen. These things cost several hundred dollars to replace....

-Buck
 
Wayne Menzie <[email protected]> wrote:

>Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> What, you think any non-masochists ride mountain bikes? ;-)
>
>Well, I /was/ lusting after one of you're MTB frames. Now I may have to redirect my affections
>towards your cross frames. Can't be labeled a masochist now, can I.

Worse - it's sadomasochists that ride 'cross (they not only hurt themselves, but those they pass).
And if you go with a road bike, you're just a cross-dresser.

Sorry - there are always "comfort bikes"...

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
"Steve Barr" wrote:
> Art, it's just a silly commercial trying to get people's attention. That's all.

Well, maybe I'm just being too logical. If I were buying a new car, I'd want a commercial that told
me something about the car, not some fantasy that isn't even funny.

I think the idea of a freeway being a playground, and a car being a toy, is all to prevalent.
The image of the deserted urban highway fits right into the fanstasy. Too many drivers already
see themselves as the only ones on the road who matter, and therefore, feel free to do whatever
they please.

Art Harris
 
x-no-archive:yes

> "Steve Barr" wrote:
> > Art, it's just a silly commercial trying to get people's attention.
That's
> > all.

> Well, maybe I'm just being too logical. If I were buying a new car, I'd
want
> a commercial that told me something about the car, not some fantasy that isn't even funny.
>
> I think the idea of a freeway being a playground, and a car being a toy,
is
> all to prevalent. The image of the deserted urban highway fits right into the fanstasy. Too many
> drivers already see themselves as the only ones on the road who matter, and therefore, feel free
> to do whatever they please.
>
> Art Harris

I didn't know you knew my brother!

Pat
 
x-no-archive:yes

> >
> > >Hopping into a performance car out on a NV/UT/CA dry lakebed and just letting everything hang
> > >out would be loads of fun.
> > >
> > >For a while anyways.

> Zoot Katz wrote:

> > A good way to get this out of your system is buy yourself some advanced driving courses. What
> > you learn there can be applied to normal driving at regulated speeds too.

>
> Well if one must be totally responsible in everything they do, this is certainly the way to go.
>
> However I have a friend who did exactly this, and whether it improved his driving skills or not I
> can't say. It did make him believe he no longer needed to pay strict attention to speed limits
> though. Those were only for "normal" (unskilled?) motorists.
>
> Come on ZK, admit it! Wouldn't you be doing a few donuts and 120 mph runs across the flats if you
> had a shot, even if only for a a brief few minutes, until your sense of social responsibility
> regained control?
>
>
> SMH

I have a brother who won't use turn signals because "he knows which way he wants to go." He
also tailgates in an extreme way--because he wants those "normal" motorists to get the hell out
of his way.

go figure.

Pat
 
In article <[email protected]>, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

> Wayne Menzie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> >
> >> What, you think any non-masochists ride mountain bikes? ;-)
> >
> >Well, I /was/ lusting after one of you're MTB frames. Now I may have to redirect my affections
> >towards your cross frames. Can't be labeled a masochist now, can I.
>
> Worse - it's sadomasochists that ride 'cross (they not only hurt themselves, but those they pass).
> And if you go with a road bike, you're just a cross-dresser.
>
> Sorry - there are always "comfort bikes"...

How much did you say that Toyota in the ad cost again?

Home of the $795 Tercel,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Harris"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Steve Barr" wrote:
> > Art, it's just a silly commercial trying to get people's attention. That's all.
>
> Well, maybe I'm just being too logical. If I were buying a new car, I'd want a commercial that
> told me something about the car, not some fantasy that isn't even funny.

You are being too logical. 30s TV ads are a poor place for fact-based arguments about car details,
except in the most simplistic form. They are a great place for establishing brand awareness and an
emotional response for a product. Go read C&D or Consumer Reports.

> I think the idea of a freeway being a playground, and a car being a toy, is all to prevalent.
> The image of the deserted urban highway fits right into the fanstasy. Too many drivers already
> see themselves as the only ones on the road who matter, and therefore, feel free to do whatever
> they please.

Blaming car ads for bad driving will get you nowhere.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
Harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Steve Barr" wrote:
> > Art, it's just a silly commercial trying to get people's attention. That's all.

> Well, maybe I'm just being too logical. If I were buying a new car, I'd want a commercial that
> told me something about the car, not some fantasy that isn't even funny.

> I think the idea of a freeway being a playground, and a car being a toy, is all to prevalent.
> The image of the deserted urban highway fits right into the fanstasy. Too many drivers already
> see themselves as the only ones on the road who matter, and therefore, feel free to do whatever
> they please.

Art, commercials make emotional appeals. They are not a place for rational argument. That's a good
thing: it's developed because people now have enough skepticism to no longer trust commercials on
matters of fact. (Like when you see a commercial for a Lincoln that says it outcorners a BMW. None
of the drivers who care how well a car corners are going to believe that without a test drive.)

Let's keep in mind that we are talking about an ad for a Camry, which is possibly the most reliable,
boring, square, middle-of-the-road car you can buy (This is not a knock on it - it's boring in part
because it's reliable and gets you where you want to go). People who buy Camrys don't do donuts on
highways even if they are deserted. They might like to think about it, but they never actually
would; that's what the commercial is playing on. I'm sure some Camry owners drive aggressively and
unsafely, but for the roots of that one needs to look elsewhere.

Anyway, I apologize for ranting off-topic about cars. Just think, if the bicycle were much more
popular, we could be flaming bike manufacturers for their misleading TV ads.
 
Pete wrote:

> "Stephen Harding" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > Put the tailgate back on for a gain of 1-2 mpg (highway). The idea that you get better mileage
> > without it is not true. You'll do even better if you put a tonneau (cover) over the bed.
>
> I've not heard that theory before. How does the tailgate up get better mileage than tailgate down?

There have been several studies from engineering departments at various schools that largely
agree on this.

The tailgate up produces an air "bubble" (static air) in the bed that effectively streamlines the
airflow around the vehicle at highway speeds. Opening the tailgate effectively "spills" this bubble
out of the bed, or prevents it from forming.

In order of increasing mpg effects (IIRC)

-- Open bed with cargo net -- Open bed (tailgate down) -- Closed bed (tailgate up) -- Bed cap --
Tonneau cover (just covers over the top of the bed).

The best overall performance was a cap designed to taper toward the rear. Although it performed best
for mpg considerations, because the aft end was so low, it reduced the usefulness of the bed in
carrying things nearly
1/2.

The vehicle looked sort of funny too.

SMH
 
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