Please help!

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Straight protein? No green leafies? Maybe it was constipation.

Perhaps constipation was the real culprit here. If one is doing the
induction phase and doesn't know what one is doing, then perhaps
constipation is the result. This is why it's not a good idea to start any
radical diet without first knowing the facts.

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
Palmer <[email hidden]> stated
|
|
| I honestly don't think it was the sugar alcohols. The reason being is
| that up until this dieting excursion I had never had any contact with
| sugar alcohols when on Atkins. For me and for my wife the first time
| she tried it, it was always straight protein and maybe some cool whip.
| Now I am eating the sugar alcohols with no ill effect, but she isn't.

"Palmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on Atkins, and
after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my stomach that was so
bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran tests but couldn't find
anything wrong. I quit the diet and the pain went away. About six
months later I tried Atkins again, and once again the pain came back.
This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went to my doctor and asked
him for pain medicine and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past
February my wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go to the
hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found nothing. She quit
the diet, and the pain went away. Recently I was diagnosed with
diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but not necessarily
Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week indroduction period and
started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day. I have been
steadily losing about three pounds per week. My wife also started
dieting. Her carb intake was greatly diminished and was comparable to
mine, give or take about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started
experiencing those stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the
hospital. I think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's
the diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and can
anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might experience this
pain?

About five years ago I had the same thing happen to me. I was about three
or four days from the end of my induction phase when all of a sudden I began
feeling the most terrible stomach pain. I posted what happened as a result
of this in another message. All I know was that the morphine they gave me
in the hospital couldn't start working fast enough, and when it finally did
kick it it was like heaven.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on Atkins,
::: and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my stomach
::: that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran tests but
::: couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the pain went
::: away. About six months later I tried Atkins again, and once again
::: the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went
::: to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine and quit the diet.
::: The pain went away. This past February my wife and I went on
::: Atkins together. This time I did not experience pain, but she did.
::: It was horrible, and she had to go to the hospital. They ran a
::: whole bunch of tests but found nothing. She quit the diet, and the
::: pain went away. Recently I was diagnosed with diabetes and decided
::: to follow a low-carb but not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I
::: didn't do any two-week indroduction period and started the diet
::: tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day. I have been steadily losing
::: about three pounds per week. My wife also started dieting. Her
::: carb intake was greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give
::: or take about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing
::: those stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the diet.
::: Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and can anyone
::: explain why someone on a low-carb diet might experience this pain?

Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?

Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing your

story

Quoted message said:

of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how you believed the

reason

Quoted message said:

to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe you resumed this diet, let alone
bringing your SO into it.

I can certainly understand Palmer's being [censored] at people who say
things like you just said. Let me repost for you what he did say. From his
very first message: "Recently I was diagnosed with
diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb BUT NOT NECESSARILY ATKINS-TYPE
DIET (emphasis mine). I didn't do any two-week indroduction period and
started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day."

This doesn't sound like Atkins to me. It just sounds like low-carb. I'm
not being sarcastic, Roger, because we're cool over in alt.support.diabetes,
but I don't know whether you just missed those words or you just were paying
more attention to other people who were accusing him of being on Atkins.
The induction phase will cause ketosis for sure, which is probably why he
didn't do it again. It's also why I didn't do it when I went low carb after
being diagnosed with diabetes. Now if I'm reading his initial post
correctly, he also said "My wife also started dieting." And that was it.
No mention of Atkins.

--
MDS (Mister Doctor Sir)

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 31 May 2006 09:32:29 GMT, Palmer <[email hidden]> wrote:

|Jeri wrote:
|>
|> Palmer <[email hidden]> wrote:
|> <snip>
|> > For me and for my wife the first time
|> > she tried it, it was always straight protein and maybe some cool

whip.

Quoted message said:

|>
|> Wait a minute........are you saying you're eating nothing but protein

and a

Quoted message said:

|> little coolwhip??
|
|
|
|No I meant the first time we both tried it at the same time, and for me
|alone those two times before I met my wife. Today I'm eating, in
|addition to the meats and cheeses, low-carb bread, sugar-free candy,
|low-carb pizzas, even half an ear of corn...it's all good!

You're joking, right? BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You're an [censored]. He said he has his blood glucose under control and is
losing weight. He also didn't say he has experienced any abdominal
discomfort this time around. So if it's working for him, who the hell are
you to act like he's doing something wrong? I also eat low-carb pizzas made
from toasted low-carb wraps, low-carb pizza sauce, mushrooms, and
mozzarella. My BG only goes up ten numbers afterwards. The wraps are whole
wheat. Half an ear of corn? I haven't tried that, but if it works for him,
who the hell are you to act like a two-year-old about it? Sugar-free candy?
I eat low-carb candy bars with the sugar alcohols in them because it
quenches my sweet tooth. And my BG rises only slightly afterwards. So
you're problem with this is? Don't bother replying. I can tell from the
stupid "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" that you are incapable of having an
intelligent discussion. In my killfile you go, you moron.

In article said:

What a bunch of idiots you people are. I asked a simple question
because I assumed you people knew what you would be talking about.

Hey, Palmer buddy...I've lost and kept off 110 pounds on Atkins, and
well, you haven't, so, I guess I may just know a bit what I am talking
about. And the other people you are calling idiots are the people who
really do know something about this. If you want advice, try asking your
question and then actually reading and accepting the advice you get.
Otherwise, shut the hell up and do whatever you want.

When you get desperate enough, you'll decide that this isn't a set of
negotiations you go through until you get the answer you want. I did
this in my first month too...I spent weeks arguing with the people
around here who were successful because I thought that I could decide
how this weight loss thing was going to work. Sorry...doesn't work that
way.

Here's how you do it. Stop eating as much as you were eating, and stop
eating the things that keep you from losing whatever weight you want to
lose.

And stop [censored] and moaning and blaing everyone else when your version
of the "diet" doesn't work. That's not our fault. The ONLY person who
controls your weight loss is YOU. Not a book, not a web site, not a
newsgroup, and the fact that our responses don't match up with the way
you think this should be going means YOU need to change your thinking.
Or invent your own diet where you eat whateve the hell you want and good
luck.

Now please killfile me so the truth doesn't keep slapping you upside the
head.

Oh, and grow up a little.

--
***************************
Wayne Crannell
Atkins+ 10/21/01
249/141
***************************

Palmer wrote:
:: Patricia Martin Steward wrote:
:::
::: On Wed, 31 May 2006 18:17:18 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::
:::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe.
:::
::: Ya think?
::
::
:: http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/dietarytherapy/a/OnlineRegistry.htm
::
:: 11 reported irritable bowel syndrome, severe abdominal pain, or
:: cramps (6%)
::
::
:: http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/highprotein_registry.html
::
:: 31 reported severe gastrointestinal problems including irritable
:: bowel syndrome, diverticulititis, ulcers, heart burn, vomiting,
:: severe abdominal pain, or cramps
::
::
:: http://www.changingshape.com/resources/articles/low-carb-diet.asp
::
:: Most low-carb diets cause ketosis. Some of the potential consequences
:: are nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and confusion.
::
::
:: Gee, ya think??

In my case, I have diverticulosis, which I had before starting LC. Due to
lack of sufficient fiber and water intake, the induction stage would cause
me problems if I stayed on it too long. Uppng fiber was a solution for me,
not upping carbs or coming out of ketosis.

PCRM are a bunch of whack job nut cases, Palmer.

Eat more broccoli. Problem solved!

Palmer wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away. Recently I
:::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but
:::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
:::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
:::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and
:::::: can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
:::::: experience this pain?
:::
::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
:::
::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing
::: your story of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how you
::: believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe you
::: resumed this diet, let alone bringing your SO into it.
::
::
::
::
:: Not doing Atkins. Didn't do the induction phase. Not losing a
:: pound a day. Eating more carbs than Atkins allows. And my wife was
:: never supposed to be doing Atkins but simply low carb. Didn't you
:: guys read where I said I was doing a low-carb but not necessarily
:: Atkins-type diet?

The first time you had this problem you were doing Atkins. You said that on
the second line!
Doesn't matter. Your issue is likely not with ketosis or carbs, but lack of
fiber and possible diverticulosis. If they don't do a colonoscopy, then
won't know. I had (and have) this same problem in my early days of LCing
and have been able to solve the problem effectively: Eat more broccoli!

Palmer said:

Quoted message said:

What exactly are you eating when you supposedly do Atkins? Give us an
example of what you would eat in a day.

TC

I'm not doing Atkins. I'm simply eating less carbs and trying to
control my blood sugar, which I have done pretty successfully. My wife
was supposed to be eating lunch and breakfast but had been skipping both
and then eating a low-carb dinner with me. That might be why she went
into Ketosis. Who knows, but I told her that she needs to eat more
carbs at breakfast and lunch.

Answer the goddamned question. Your statements do not make any sense.

You are doing low carb and it causes you major stomach pain, twice now,
and your wife experienced it once. But you aren't telling us exactly
what you did eat, only that you are eating less carbs. That means that
you've hardly made any changes to your diet but it somehow is supposed
to be causing you some serious pain. That does not make sense. And now
you say that your wife skips two meals and a snack, what kind of
stupidity is that? It still makes no sense.

And you say that maybe skipping meals and eating low carb may be why
she went into ketosis, as if ketosis is somehow related to and possibly
the cause of her stomach pain. How do you know "she went into ketosis"
and how is that relevant? Starvation by itself does not necessarily
lead to ketosis.

Tell us exactly what you guys ate at breakfast, at lunch, at supper and
in between. We will tell you if it is in fact low carb and if it could
be the cause of your pain or not.

Personally, I think you are a troll and a lying piece of [censored] simply
because your story does not make any sense and you are not volunteering
any useful information that could even remotely explain the alleged
pains.

TC

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away. Recently I
:::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but
:::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
:::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
:::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and
:::::: can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
:::::: experience this pain?
:::
::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
:::
::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing
::: your story of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how you
::: believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe you
::: resumed this diet, let alone bringing your SO into it.
::
::
:: I can certainly understand Palmer's being [censored] at people who
:: say things like you just said. Let me repost for you what he did
:: say. From his very first message: "Recently I was diagnosed with
:: diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb BUT NOT NECESSARILY
:: ATKINS-TYPE DIET (emphasis mine). I didn't do any two-week
:: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs
:: per day."
::
:: This doesn't sound like Atkins to me. It just sounds like low-carb.
:: I'm not being sarcastic, Roger, because we're cool over in
:: alt.support.diabetes, but I don't know whether you just missed those
:: words or you just were paying more attention to other people who
:: were accusing him of being on Atkins. The induction phase will cause
:: ketosis for sure, which is probably why he didn't do it again. It's
:: also why I didn't do it when I went low carb after being diagnosed
:: with diabetes. Now if I'm reading his initial post correctly, he
:: also said "My wife also started dieting." And that was it. No
:: mention of Atkins.

I think you guys are having comprehension problems. Did you read the first
part of his statement? Consider this:

Palmer wrote:
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital.

He is talking about Atkins specifically and saying he knew it was the diet.
If he didn't write this, then I apologize, but that's what I read and
responded to. I'm also saying that the lack fiber and the potential of
preexisting undiagnosed diverticulosis could be the reason for this (rather
than ketosis and lack of carbs - those links are BS). Why am I saying this?
Because that's exactly what my problem was (is) and I deal with it by eating
more fiber in diet, not necessarily carbs. Broccoli is good! I don't think
diverticulosis can be diagnosed without probing <ick>.

MDS wrote:
:: "Palmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on Atkins,
::: and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my stomach
::: that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran tests but
::: couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the pain went
::: away. About six months later I tried Atkins again, and once again
::: the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went
::: to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine and quit the diet.
::: The pain went away. This past February my wife and I went on
::: Atkins together. This time I did not experience pain, but she did.
::: It was horrible, and she had to go to the hospital. They ran a
::: whole bunch of tests but found nothing. She quit the diet, and the
::: pain went away. Recently I was diagnosed with diabetes and decided
::: to follow a low-carb but not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I
::: didn't do any two-week indroduction period and started the diet
::: tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day. I have been steadily losing
::: about three pounds per week. My wife also started dieting. Her
::: carb intake was greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give
::: or take about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing
::: those stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the diet.
::: Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and can anyone
::: explain why someone on a low-carb diet might experience this pain?
::
::
::
:: About five years ago I had the same thing happen to me. I was about
:: three or four days from the end of my induction phase when all of a
:: sudden I began feeling the most terrible stomach pain. I posted
:: what happened as a result of this in another message. All I know
:: was that the morphine they gave me in the hospital couldn't start
:: working fast enough, and when it finally did kick it it was like
:: heaven.

When you say stomach pain, where exactly was this pain? If it's lower
abdomen then it is not stomach pain.

MDS wrote:
:: "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: Straight protein? No green leafies? Maybe it was constipation.
::
::
:: Perhaps constipation was the real culprit here. If one is doing the
:: induction phase and doesn't know what one is doing, then perhaps
:: constipation is the result. This is why it's not a good idea to
:: start any radical diet without first knowing the facts.

I think it could likely be more than just constipation. Lots of people have
various degrees of diverticulosis that doesn't necessary become a problem
until a drastic change in diet occurs.

::
::
::
:::
::: In news:[email hidden],
::: Palmer <[email hidden]> stated
::::
::::
:::: I honestly don't think it was the sugar alcohols. The reason
:::: being is that up until this dieting excursion I had never had any
:::: contact with sugar alcohols when on Atkins. For me and for my
:::: wife the first time she tried it, it was always straight protein
:::: and maybe some cool whip. Now I am eating the sugar alcohols with
:::: no ill effect, but she isn't.

Palmer said:

About three years ago I went on Atkins ...
About six months later I tried Atkins again, and once again
the pain came back ...
This past
February my wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
experience pain, but she did ...
Recently I was diagnosed with
diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but not necessarily
Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week indroduction period and
started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day ...

On a completely different note - What was your diet like
previous to all of this?

Human digestion adapts to what it's been eating most of the
time. Since 1999 I've been on a mostly low-carb /
medium-protein / high-fat diet that was Atkins for years but I've
since drifted too far off for it to count any more.

But I love the occasional meal of low-fat Indian vegitarian food.
The stuff tastes wonderfull to me but since my digestion is
not used to it the stuff gives me fierce acid reflux. Knowing I
caused it myself and knowing why, I figure it's part of the
price of the occasional meal so far from my normal.

For folks who used to be on near vegitarian diets that are low
fat, a sudden switch to high-fat meat-based Atkins Induction
(or even a low carb plan of your own design like your fourth
and current attempt) can easily trigger bad indigestion until
your body adjusts.

It doesn't have to be the fault of the diet. It doesn't have to
be diverticulitis. It could just be a body adjusted to digested
greatly different types of food.

If you used to eat low fat, then "the way out is through".
Give your digestion time to adjust. It will in a week or so.
Will it be a rough ride adjusting from one sort of basically
healthy system to a different sort of basically healthy
system? Sure. But as long as you're eating your veggies
and eating reasonable stuff, the adjustment will happen and
all will be well.

A few days of indigestion don't mean that indigestion will
last forever. Folks point to all sorts of short term adjustment
effects of switching to low carb, think they will last forever,
and complain. Doesn't mean their complaints actually
reflect on the real world.

Relax. The adjustment will happen. And if you spend a
week tapering from your previous system to your new one
their might not be all that much adjustment symptoms that
you notice.

Quoted message said:

I have been
steadily losing about three pounds per week.

Great loss. By the way, such a fast loss rate either says
you have 100+ to lose (so how you gained clearly can't
be healthy) or you have a very high suseptibility to low
carbing (great for loss phases but likely higher risk of
falling off and regaining).

Quoted message said:

I think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's
the diet.

Then why did she try low carbing at all? It doesn't make sense.

Quoted message said:

Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and can
anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might experience this
pain?

See my example above about making a radical change in diet.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tell us exactly what you guys ate at breakfast, at lunch, at supper and
in between. We will tell you if it is in fact low carb and if it could
be the cause of your pain or not.

Yes, difficult to tell unless a sample diet is provided. Not enough fat
could be low carb, but not Atkins. Not including salad veggies could be low
carb, but not Atkins.
Many things may cause gastric pain. Left side pain; diverticulosis (as
Roger stated). Right side pain; gall bladder stones or blockage. Other
possible causes could be; too much sugar alcohols, not enough fluids, not
enough fat, not enough fiber, sulfites in processed meats, and a radical
change of diet.

Palmer. I have talked to and observed quite a few people claiming to eat
low carb. Some do not include veggies because they say "Atkins' diet doesn't
allow them". Some people will eat way too much meat and cut off all visible
fat. Some will drink tons of diet sodas, and not drink any plain water. A
few were only eating low carb labeled products like, Atkins bars,
dreamfields pasta, low carb breads, low carb ice creams for most of their
meals. Each of these examples could be low carb, but not good on a
sustainable basis. I can see how some of these things would cause stomach
pain.
I got a stomach ache the next day after a party. I was under the
impression that there would be "low carb" foods and snacks, so I didn't eat
before hand. Mostly what was there was, low fat, high carb foods. So I
pigged out on the sliced meat and pepperoni. I had a painful and rumbling
stomach all of the next day and was constipated for 3 days afterward. Did I
eat low carb? You bet, but obviously the processed meats didn't agree with
me at all.

Roger Zoul said:

Palmer wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away. Recently I
:::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but
:::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
:::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
:::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and
:::::: can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
:::::: experience this pain?
:::
::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
:::
::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing
::: your story of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how you
::: believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe you
::: resumed this diet, let alone bringing your SO into it.
::
::
::
::
:: Not doing Atkins. Didn't do the induction phase. Not losing a
:: pound a day. Eating more carbs than Atkins allows. And my wife was
:: never supposed to be doing Atkins but simply low carb. Didn't you
:: guys read where I said I was doing a low-carb but not necessarily
:: Atkins-type diet?

The first time you had this problem you were doing Atkins. You said that on
the second line!
Doesn't matter. Your issue is likely not with ketosis or carbs, but lack of
fiber and possible diverticulosis. If they don't do a colonoscopy, then
won't know. I had (and have) this same problem in my early days of LCing
and have been able to solve the problem effectively: Eat more broccoli!

My wife had a colonoscopy, and they found nothing. Actually, I had
thought that they might find this huge pile of [censored] clogging her
plumbing somewhere, but they found zip. Could it just be the radical
change from high carb, say 500 or more grams per day, to low-carb,
around 20 per day? Could the sudden change in incoming foods just cause
an imbalance?

Roger Zoul said:

Palmer wrote:
:: Patricia Martin Steward wrote:
:::
::: On Wed, 31 May 2006 18:17:18 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::
:::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe.
:::
::: Ya think?
::
::
:: http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/dietarytherapy/a/OnlineRegistry.htm
::
:: 11 reported irritable bowel syndrome, severe abdominal pain, or
:: cramps (6%)
::
::
:: http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/highprotein_registry.html
::
:: 31 reported severe gastrointestinal problems including irritable
:: bowel syndrome, diverticulititis, ulcers, heart burn, vomiting,
:: severe abdominal pain, or cramps
::
::
:: http://www.changingshape.com/resources/articles/low-carb-diet.asp
::
:: Most low-carb diets cause ketosis. Some of the potential consequences
:: are nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and confusion.
::
::
:: Gee, ya think??

In my case, I have diverticulosis, which I had before starting LC. Due to
lack of sufficient fiber and water intake, the induction stage would cause
me problems if I stayed on it too long. Uppng fiber was a solution for me,
not upping carbs or coming out of ketosis.

PCRM are a bunch of whack job nut cases, Palmer.

Eat more broccoli. Problem solved!

Thanks for the more civilized reply. I don't agree with you about the
nut cases comment. All some of them were reporting were problems
reported. These could very well have been authentic problems that the
die-hard believers here just refuse to accept because those problems
didn't happen to them. Each problem may have had a simple explanation
that a biased researcher might have left out, but this doesn't change
the fact that such problems need to be addressed. I wish you would have
said this earlier, and then we could have discussed it more at length.

Palmer said:

Roger Zoul said:

PCRM are a bunch of whack job nut cases, Palmer.

I don't agree with you about the nut cases comment.

Ah. Definite troll then. They aren't just nutjobs they are liars.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away. Recently I
:::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but
:::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
:::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
:::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and
:::::: can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
:::::: experience this pain?
:::
::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
:::
::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing
::: your story of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how you
::: believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe you
::: resumed this diet, let alone bringing your SO into it.
::
::
:: I can certainly understand Palmer's being [censored] at people who
:: say things like you just said. Let me repost for you what he did
:: say. From his very first message: "Recently I was diagnosed with
:: diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb BUT NOT NECESSARILY
:: ATKINS-TYPE DIET (emphasis mine). I didn't do any two-week
:: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs
:: per day."
::
:: This doesn't sound like Atkins to me. It just sounds like low-carb.
:: I'm not being sarcastic, Roger, because we're cool over in
:: alt.support.diabetes, but I don't know whether you just missed those
:: words or you just were paying more attention to other people who
:: were accusing him of being on Atkins. The induction phase will cause
:: ketosis for sure, which is probably why he didn't do it again. It's
:: also why I didn't do it when I went low carb after being diagnosed
:: with diabetes. Now if I'm reading his initial post correctly, he
:: also said "My wife also started dieting." And that was it. No
:: mention of Atkins.

I think you guys are having comprehension problems. Did you read the

first

Quoted message said:

part of his statement? Consider this:

Palmer wrote:
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital.

He is talking about Atkins specifically and saying he knew it was the

diet.

Quoted message said:

If he didn't write this, then I apologize, but that's what I read and
responded to. I'm also saying that the lack fiber and the potential of
preexisting undiagnosed diverticulosis could be the reason for this

(rather

Quoted message said:

than ketosis and lack of carbs - those links are BS). Why am I saying

this?

Quoted message said:

Because that's exactly what my problem was (is) and I deal with it by

eating

Quoted message said:

more fiber in diet, not necessarily carbs. Broccoli is good! I don't

think

Quoted message said:

diverticulosis can be diagnosed without probing <ick>.

Look let's forget about it. Your idea makes alot of sense and is worth
exploring, Roger. Both Palmer and I, and apparently you, had problems on
ketosis. Constipation is really all people needed to suggest, instead of
attacking Palmer like some heretic. I'm almost inclined to agree with him.
Some of the people here seem to have a cultist mentality, although in the
end I'm sure that's not really the case. Simple fact: Palmer, Roger, and I
had serious pain during ketosis. Possible explanation? Constipation.
Question: I remember when I had the stomach pains, and my first bowel
movement after the pains began, iirc, was like a small, thin turd. Hey
we're all adults here, and these things are important! Get over it!
Anyway, does that sound right, or would it be more like one of my
ex-girlfriends whose pain didn't stop until she passed a small but extremely
thick turd?

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MDS wrote:
:: "Palmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on Atkins,
::: and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my stomach
::: that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran tests but
::: couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the pain went
::: away. About six months later I tried Atkins again, and once again
::: the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went
::: to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine and quit the diet.
::: The pain went away. This past February my wife and I went on
::: Atkins together. This time I did not experience pain, but she did.
::: It was horrible, and she had to go to the hospital. They ran a
::: whole bunch of tests but found nothing. She quit the diet, and the
::: pain went away. Recently I was diagnosed with diabetes and decided
::: to follow a low-carb but not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I
::: didn't do any two-week indroduction period and started the diet
::: tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day. I have been steadily losing
::: about three pounds per week. My wife also started dieting. Her
::: carb intake was greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give
::: or take about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing
::: those stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the diet.
::: Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and can anyone
::: explain why someone on a low-carb diet might experience this pain?
::
::
::
:: About five years ago I had the same thing happen to me. I was about
:: three or four days from the end of my induction phase when all of a
:: sudden I began feeling the most terrible stomach pain. I posted
:: what happened as a result of this in another message. All I know
:: was that the morphine they gave me in the hospital couldn't start
:: working fast enough, and when it finally did kick it it was like
:: heaven.

When you say stomach pain, where exactly was this pain? If it's lower
abdomen then it is not stomach pain.

It actually started around my navel and then over a short period of time
moved to my lower right side. I guess that's what made the doctor think of
appendicitis first. What made him really suspect it after that was when he
pushed down on where the pain was. I nearly jumped off the table because it
hurt so bad.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Palmer said:

Quoted message said:

What exactly are you eating when you supposedly do Atkins? Give us an
example of what you would eat in a day.

TC

I'm not doing Atkins. I'm simply eating less carbs and trying to
control my blood sugar, which I have done pretty successfully. My wife
was supposed to be eating lunch and breakfast but had been skipping both
and then eating a low-carb dinner with me. That might be why she went
into Ketosis. Who knows, but I told her that she needs to eat more
carbs at breakfast and lunch.

Answer the goddamned question. Your statements do not make any sense.

You are doing low carb and it causes you major stomach pain, twice now,
and your wife experienced it once. But you aren't telling us exactly
what you did eat, only that you are eating less carbs. That means that
you've hardly made any changes to your diet but it somehow is supposed
to be causing you some serious pain. That does not make sense. And now
you say that your wife skips two meals and a snack, what kind of
stupidity is that? It still makes no sense.

And you say that maybe skipping meals and eating low carb may be why
she went into ketosis, as if ketosis is somehow related to and possibly
the cause of her stomach pain. How do you know "she went into ketosis"
and how is that relevant? Starvation by itself does not necessarily
lead to ketosis.

Tell us exactly what you guys ate at breakfast, at lunch, at supper and
in between. We will tell you if it is in fact low carb and if it could
be the cause of your pain or not.

Personally, I think you are a troll and a lying piece of [censored] simply
because your story does not make any sense and you are not volunteering
any useful information that could even remotely explain the alleged
pains.

Personally I think your father must have raped you as a baby, and this is
the source of all your current hostility. If asked more civily he might
have answered. I would have told you what happened to me and what I ate.
Instead, you act like a mentally retarded momma's boy who sits at home and
pounds away at his keyboard trying to get out his anger because his momma
treats him like a little baby.

--
MDS (Mister Doctor Sir)

Palmer wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
::: Palmer wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
::::::
::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in
::::::::: my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They
::::::::: ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet
::::::::: and the pain went away. About six months later I tried
::::::::: Atkins again, and once again the pain came back. This time I
::::::::: knew it had to be the diet. I went to my doctor and asked
::::::::: him for pain medicine and quit the diet. The pain went away.
::::::::: This past February my wife and I went on Atkins together.
::::::::: This time I did not experience pain, but she did. It was
::::::::: horrible, and she had to go to the hospital. They ran a
::::::::: whole bunch of tests but found nothing. She quit the diet,
::::::::: and the pain went away. Recently I was diagnosed with
::::::::: diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but not necessarily
::::::::: Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week indroduction
::::::::: period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per
::::::::: day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds per
::::::::: week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
::::::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
::::::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
::::::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
::::::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
::::::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this,
::::::::: and can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
::::::::: experience this pain?
::::::
:::::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
::::::
:::::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing
:::::: your story of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how
:::::: you believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe
:::::: you resumed this diet, let alone bringing your SO into it.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: Not doing Atkins. Didn't do the induction phase. Not losing a
::::: pound a day. Eating more carbs than Atkins allows. And my wife
::::: was never supposed to be doing Atkins but simply low carb.
::::: Didn't you guys read where I said I was doing a low-carb but not
::::: necessarily Atkins-type diet?
:::
::: The first time you had this problem you were doing Atkins. You
::: said that on the second line!
::: Doesn't matter. Your issue is likely not with ketosis or carbs,
::: but lack of fiber and possible diverticulosis. If they don't do a
::: colonoscopy, then won't know. I had (and have) this same problem
::: in my early days of LCing and have been able to solve the problem
::: effectively: Eat more broccoli!
::
::
:: My wife had a colonoscopy, and they found nothing. Actually, I had
:: thought that they might find this huge pile of [censored] clogging her
:: plumbing somewhere, but they found zip. Could it just be the radical
:: change from high carb, say 500 or more grams per day, to low-carb,
:: around 20 per day? Could the sudden change in incoming foods just
:: cause an imbalance?

It's hard to say for sure, but people do sometimes react differently to
extreme changes in diet. Since they found that she didn't have any
diverticula that were inflamed and such, and if the only change really was
eating only 20g per day of induction foods, perhaps so. Some people don't
tolerate induction level carb intake well. Many people feel terrible while
adapting to induction level carbs, but eventually that turns around (within
a week or so after the carb addiction wears off) and they start to feel
great.

It is curious, I think, that both you and your wife have the same type of
reaction, however. In my experience here (since 2001), this abdominal pain
thing is rare, even though I can say it happened to me. One can wonder if
there is something specific about what you two eat. Of course, you seem to
have a long history with this problem, while hers seems fairly brief. The
power of suggestion can be a strong thing, though.

But the bottom line is that a lot of people here don't follow Atkins. We
use the principles from Atkins (and others) and typically rolls our on
plans. *Induction* isn't necessary for successful weight loss and BG
control. I personally feel it has some advantages, however.

So, if induction doesn't work for the two of you, skip it. Low carb is the
way, IMO, and it's broader than induction.

Oh, that pcrm (or whatever) group are total nutjobs. Sorry.