Please help!

I think what gets to people is your saying that you had pain during ketosis,
when the pain occurred during induction which involves a lot more than
ketosis. It's hard for me to associate abdominal pain with ketosis since
ketosis happens on a cellular level throughout the body. It's the burning
of fat for energy rather than glucose. It's much more reasonable to
associate abdominal pain with digestive changes arising from a change of
diet--a lot less carbs, possibly a lot less fiber, perhaps more fat. Roger
had the pain but I wager he has been in ketosis a lot since induction but no
pain, it was the change in diet that affected his gut, not the ketosis.

People get touchy because we have had a history of trolls coming into the
group and spinning the most outlandish stories such as how low carb wrecked
their marriage, and sometimes they overreact.

In news:[email hidden],
MDS <[email hidden]> stated

|
|
| Look let's forget about it. Your idea makes alot of sense and is
| worth exploring, Roger. Both Palmer and I, and apparently you, had
| problems on ketosis. Constipation is really all people needed to
| suggest, instead of attacking Palmer like some heretic. I'm almost
| inclined to agree with him. Some of the people here seem to have a
| cultist mentality, although in the end I'm sure that's not really the
| case. Simple fact: Palmer, Roger, and I had serious pain during
| ketosis. Possible explanation? Constipation. Question: I remember
| when I had the stomach pains, and my first bowel movement after the
| pains began, iirc, was like a small, thin turd. Hey we're all adults
| here, and these things are important! Get over it! Anyway, does that
| sound right, or would it be more like one of my ex-girlfriends whose
| pain didn't stop until she passed a small but extremely thick turd?

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: MDS wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email hidden]...
::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in
::::::::: my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They
::::::::: ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet
::::::::: and the pain went away. About six months later I tried
::::::::: Atkins again, and once again the pain came back. This time I
::::::::: knew it had to be the diet. I went to my doctor and asked
::::::::: him for pain medicine and quit the diet. The pain went away.
::::::::: This past February my wife and I went on Atkins together.
::::::::: This time I did not experience pain, but she did. It was
::::::::: horrible, and she had to go to the hospital. They ran a
::::::::: whole bunch of tests but found nothing. She quit the diet,
::::::::: and the pain went away. Recently I was diagnosed with
::::::::: diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but not necessarily
::::::::: Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week indroduction
::::::::: period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per
::::::::: day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds per
::::::::: week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
::::::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
::::::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
::::::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
::::::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
::::::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this,
::::::::: and can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
::::::::: experience this pain?
::::::
:::::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
::::::
:::::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing
:::::: your story of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how
:::::: you believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe
:::::: you resumed this diet, let alone bringing your SO into it.
:::::
:::::
::::: I can certainly understand Palmer's being [censored] at people who
::::: say things like you just said. Let me repost for you what he did
::::: say. From his very first message: "Recently I was diagnosed with
::::: diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb BUT NOT NECESSARILY
::::: ATKINS-TYPE DIET (emphasis mine). I didn't do any two-week
::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
::::: carbs per day."
:::::
::::: This doesn't sound like Atkins to me. It just sounds like
::::: low-carb. I'm not being sarcastic, Roger, because we're cool over
::::: in alt.support.diabetes, but I don't know whether you just missed
::::: those words or you just were paying more attention to other
::::: people who were accusing him of being on Atkins. The induction
::::: phase will cause ketosis for sure, which is probably why he
::::: didn't do it again. It's also why I didn't do it when I went low
::::: carb after being diagnosed with diabetes. Now if I'm reading his
::::: initial post correctly, he also said "My wife also started
::::: dieting." And that was it. No mention of Atkins.
:::
::: I think you guys are having comprehension problems. Did you read
::: the first part of his statement? Consider this:
:::
::: Palmer wrote:
::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in
::::::::: my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They
::::::::: ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet
::::::::: and the pain went away. About six months later I tried
::::::::: Atkins again, and once again the pain came back. This time I
::::::::: knew it had to be the diet. I went to my doctor and asked
::::::::: him for pain medicine and quit the diet. The pain went away.
::::::::: This past February my wife and I went on Atkins together.
::::::::: This time I did not experience pain, but she did. It was
::::::::: horrible, and she had to go to the hospital.
:::
::: He is talking about Atkins specifically and saying he knew it was
::: the diet. If he didn't write this, then I apologize, but that's
::: what I read and responded to. I'm also saying that the lack fiber
::: and the potential of preexisting undiagnosed diverticulosis could
::: be the reason for this (rather than ketosis and lack of carbs -
::: those links are BS). Why am I saying this? Because that's exactly
::: what my problem was (is) and I deal with it by eating more fiber in
::: diet, not necessarily carbs. Broccoli is good! I don't think
::: diverticulosis can be diagnosed without probing <ick>.
::
::
::
:: Look let's forget about it.

No problem.

:: Your idea makes alot of sense and is
:: worth exploring, Roger. Both Palmer and I, and apparently you, had
:: problems on ketosis.

I had problems on induction, not ketosis. I don't think ketosis is the
problem. People like to blame it for stuff, because they think it's an
abnormal state of being. It's not. There is research that says that
ketosis is a good state for the body to be in.

:: Constipation is really all people needed to
:: suggest, instead of attacking Palmer like some heretic.

Hey, we get a lot of trolls here. I'm sure Palmer didn't intend to look
that way, but he was blaming Atkins for this problem and then giving links
to the known nutcases. I'm not sure I blame him for making changes though
based on what happened and what seemed to solve the problem. You gotta do
what you gotta do. However, all of this other stuff about eating low carb
goodies came out and many of us know well the effects of sugar alcohols!
Who knows what the real deal is or was.

I'm almost
:: inclined to agree with him. Some of the people here seem to have a
:: cultist mentality, although in the end I'm sure that's not really
:: the case. Simple fact: Palmer, Roger, and I had serious pain during
:: ketosis.

Not ketosis. Induction with too little fiber, in my case, at least.
Inexperienced LCing, IMO.

Possible explanation? Constipation. Question: I remember
:: when I had the stomach pains, and my first bowel movement after the
:: pains began, iirc, was like a small, thin turd.

We've had discussions here about this. You are not alone there. That
sounds like constipation to me.

Hey we're all
:: adults here, and these things are important! Get over it! Anyway,
:: does that sound right, or would it be more like one of my
:: ex-girlfriends whose pain didn't stop until she passed a small but
:: extremely thick turd?

Well, I have dropped some rock-hard pellets with too little fiber in my
diet. So constipation is a possibility. In my case, I had it on top of
diverticulosis, and the diverticula became inflamed. I had bleeding, too.
That wasn't fun, I tell ya.

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: MDS wrote:
::::: "Palmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email hidden]...
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away. Recently I
:::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but
:::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
:::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
:::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and
:::::: can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
:::::: experience this pain?
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: About five years ago I had the same thing happen to me. I was
::::: about three or four days from the end of my induction phase when
::::: all of a sudden I began feeling the most terrible stomach pain.
::::: I posted what happened as a result of this in another message.
::::: All I know was that the morphine they gave me in the hospital
::::: couldn't start working fast enough, and when it finally did kick
::::: it it was like heaven.
:::
::: When you say stomach pain, where exactly was this pain? If it's
::: lower abdomen then it is not stomach pain.
::
::
:: It actually started around my navel and then over a short period of
:: time moved to my lower right side. I guess that's what made the
:: doctor think of appendicitis first. What made him really suspect it
:: after that was when he pushed down on where the pain was. I nearly
:: jumped off the table because it hurt so bad.

Well, it wasn't your stomach for sure! It could have been a mass that was
simply causing blockage. I've had that too....I think some people are more
susceptable than others to this. On LC, I generally don't have this problem
when I'm eating and exercising right.

I'm certain that is not due to being in ketosis, however. I've done some
extreme things to get into ketosis quickly, as as long as I'm getting fiber,
I don't have issues.

In article <[email hidden]>, MDS
([email hidden]) says...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Palmer said:

[email hidden] wrote:
>
> What exactly are you eating when you supposedly do Atkins? Give us an
> example of what you would eat in a day.
>
> TC
>

I'm not doing Atkins. I'm simply eating less carbs and trying to
control my blood sugar, which I have done pretty successfully. My wife
was supposed to be eating lunch and breakfast but had been skipping both
and then eating a low-carb dinner with me. That might be why she went
into Ketosis. Who knows, but I told her that she needs to eat more
carbs at breakfast and lunch.

Answer the goddamned question. Your statements do not make any sense.

You are doing low carb and it causes you major stomach pain, twice now,
and your wife experienced it once. But you aren't telling us exactly
what you did eat, only that you are eating less carbs. That means that
you've hardly made any changes to your diet but it somehow is supposed
to be causing you some serious pain. That does not make sense. And now
you say that your wife skips two meals and a snack, what kind of
stupidity is that? It still makes no sense.

And you say that maybe skipping meals and eating low carb may be why
she went into ketosis, as if ketosis is somehow related to and possibly
the cause of her stomach pain. How do you know "she went into ketosis"
and how is that relevant? Starvation by itself does not necessarily
lead to ketosis.

Tell us exactly what you guys ate at breakfast, at lunch, at supper and
in between. We will tell you if it is in fact low carb and if it could
be the cause of your pain or not.

Personally, I think you are a troll and a lying piece of [censored] simply
because your story does not make any sense and you are not volunteering
any useful information that could even remotely explain the alleged
pains.

Personally I think your father must have raped you as a baby, and this is
the source of all your current hostility. If asked more civily he might
have answered. I would have told you what happened to me and what I ate.
Instead, you act like a mentally retarded momma's boy who sits at home and
pounds away at his keyboard trying to get out his anger because his momma
treats him like a little baby.

At this point, I'd say that Palmer/MDS is DEFINITELY a troll. In fact,
I suspect he's the same troll that's been popping up here off and on and
used to come in via Newsguy. Now he's coming in via Easynews. He tried
to change his approach from being overtly obnoxious, but he still can't
stop bashing his wife for being on Atkins, and his disdain for her is
clear. Notice that he talks about her in a derogatory/objectifying
manner and refers to what sounds like what he considers to be
DISOBEDIENCE in nearly every post, including saying that he thought
maybe the problem was a massive pile of [censored] clogging her up. Clearly
he's STILL blaming Atkins for the breakup of his marriage, even though
it's been several years now.

--
Saffire
205/140/135-140 (aka JUST RIGHT!)
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think what gets to people is your saying that you had pain during

ketosis,

Quoted message said:

when the pain occurred during induction which involves a lot more than
ketosis. It's hard for me to associate abdominal pain with ketosis since
ketosis happens on a cellular level throughout the body. It's the burning
of fat for energy rather than glucose. It's much more reasonable to
associate abdominal pain with digestive changes arising from a change of
diet--a lot less carbs, possibly a lot less fiber, perhaps more fat.

Roger

Quoted message said:

had the pain but I wager he has been in ketosis a lot since induction but

no

Quoted message said:

pain, it was the change in diet that affected his gut, not the ketosis.

People get touchy because we have had a history of trolls coming into the
group and spinning the most outlandish stories such as how low carb

wrecked

Quoted message said:

their marriage, and sometimes they overreact.

Hey we've all had problems with trolls. Let this be a lesson to all of us.

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
MDS <[email hidden]> stated

|
|
| Look let's forget about it. Your idea makes alot of sense and is
| worth exploring, Roger. Both Palmer and I, and apparently you, had
| problems on ketosis. Constipation is really all people needed to
| suggest, instead of attacking Palmer like some heretic. I'm almost
| inclined to agree with him. Some of the people here seem to have a
| cultist mentality, although in the end I'm sure that's not really the
| case. Simple fact: Palmer, Roger, and I had serious pain during
| ketosis. Possible explanation? Constipation. Question: I remember
| when I had the stomach pains, and my first bowel movement after the
| pains began, iirc, was like a small, thin turd. Hey we're all adults
| here, and these things are important! Get over it! Anyway, does that
| sound right, or would it be more like one of my ex-girlfriends whose
| pain didn't stop until she passed a small but extremely thick turd?

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: MDS wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email hidden]...
::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in
::::::::: my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They
::::::::: ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet
::::::::: and the pain went away. About six months later I tried
::::::::: Atkins again, and once again the pain came back. This time I
::::::::: knew it had to be the diet. I went to my doctor and asked
::::::::: him for pain medicine and quit the diet. The pain went away.
::::::::: This past February my wife and I went on Atkins together.
::::::::: This time I did not experience pain, but she did. It was
::::::::: horrible, and she had to go to the hospital. They ran a
::::::::: whole bunch of tests but found nothing. She quit the diet,
::::::::: and the pain went away. Recently I was diagnosed with
::::::::: diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but not necessarily
::::::::: Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week indroduction
::::::::: period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per
::::::::: day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds per
::::::::: week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
::::::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
::::::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
::::::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
::::::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
::::::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this,
::::::::: and can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
::::::::: experience this pain?
::::::
:::::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
::::::
:::::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After hearing
:::::: your story of severe pain after several attempts and seeing how
:::::: you believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it hard to believe
:::::: you resumed this diet, let alone bringing your SO into it.
:::::
:::::
::::: I can certainly understand Palmer's being [censored] at people who
::::: say things like you just said. Let me repost for you what he did
::::: say. From his very first message: "Recently I was diagnosed with
::::: diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb BUT NOT NECESSARILY
::::: ATKINS-TYPE DIET (emphasis mine). I didn't do any two-week
::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
::::: carbs per day."
:::::
::::: This doesn't sound like Atkins to me. It just sounds like
::::: low-carb. I'm not being sarcastic, Roger, because we're cool over
::::: in alt.support.diabetes, but I don't know whether you just missed
::::: those words or you just were paying more attention to other
::::: people who were accusing him of being on Atkins. The induction
::::: phase will cause ketosis for sure, which is probably why he
::::: didn't do it again. It's also why I didn't do it when I went low
::::: carb after being diagnosed with diabetes. Now if I'm reading his
::::: initial post correctly, he also said "My wife also started
::::: dieting." And that was it. No mention of Atkins.
:::
::: I think you guys are having comprehension problems. Did you read
::: the first part of his statement? Consider this:
:::
::: Palmer wrote:
::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in
::::::::: my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They
::::::::: ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet
::::::::: and the pain went away. About six months later I tried
::::::::: Atkins again, and once again the pain came back. This time I
::::::::: knew it had to be the diet. I went to my doctor and asked
::::::::: him for pain medicine and quit the diet. The pain went away.
::::::::: This past February my wife and I went on Atkins together.
::::::::: This time I did not experience pain, but she did. It was
::::::::: horrible, and she had to go to the hospital.
:::
::: He is talking about Atkins specifically and saying he knew it was
::: the diet. If he didn't write this, then I apologize, but that's
::: what I read and responded to. I'm also saying that the lack fiber
::: and the potential of preexisting undiagnosed diverticulosis could
::: be the reason for this (rather than ketosis and lack of carbs -
::: those links are BS). Why am I saying this? Because that's exactly
::: what my problem was (is) and I deal with it by eating more fiber in
::: diet, not necessarily carbs. Broccoli is good! I don't think
::: diverticulosis can be diagnosed without probing <ick>.
::
::
::
:: Look let's forget about it.

No problem.

:: Your idea makes alot of sense and is
:: worth exploring, Roger. Both Palmer and I, and apparently you, had
:: problems on ketosis.

I had problems on induction, not ketosis. I don't think ketosis is the
problem. People like to blame it for stuff, because they think it's an
abnormal state of being. It's not. There is research that says that
ketosis is a good state for the body to be in.

:: Constipation is really all people needed to
:: suggest, instead of attacking Palmer like some heretic.

Hey, we get a lot of trolls here. I'm sure Palmer didn't intend to look
that way, but he was blaming Atkins for this problem and then giving links
to the known nutcases. I'm not sure I blame him for making changes though
based on what happened and what seemed to solve the problem. You gotta do
what you gotta do. However, all of this other stuff about eating low carb
goodies came out and many of us know well the effects of sugar alcohols!
Who knows what the real deal is or was.

Well I can tell you, and you already know this, that I eat low-carb Russell
Stover candy bars, which all have those sugar alcohols in them. One time I
ate too many and got the [censored]. Other than that, I eat them just fine. If
YMMV is true, people shouldn't rush to judgement on those sugar alcohols.
We don't even know how many of those candies he is eating.

Quoted message said:

I'm almost
:: inclined to agree with him. Some of the people here seem to have a
:: cultist mentality, although in the end I'm sure that's not really
:: the case. Simple fact: Palmer, Roger, and I had serious pain during
:: ketosis.

Not ketosis. Induction with too little fiber, in my case, at least.
Inexperienced LCing, IMO.

That was probably my problem, too. Looking back, I can see a whole lotta
protein and not much fiber at all.

Quoted message said:

Possible explanation? Constipation. Question: I remember
:: when I had the stomach pains, and my first bowel movement after the
:: pains began, iirc, was like a small, thin turd.

We've had discussions here about this. You are not alone there. That
sounds like constipation to me.

Well then maybe that was the culprit. See? Level heads like you and me
should be running this world, Roger. We could really get some [censored] done!

Quoted message said:

Hey we're all
:: adults here, and these things are important! Get over it! Anyway,
:: does that sound right, or would it be more like one of my
:: ex-girlfriends whose pain didn't stop until she passed a small but
:: extremely thick turd?

Well, I have dropped some rock-hard pellets with too little fiber in my
diet. So constipation is a possibility. In my case, I had it on top of
diverticulosis, and the diverticula became inflamed. I had bleeding, too.
That wasn't fun, I tell ya.

I know all too well about the bleeding part.

--
MDS (Mister Doctor Sir)

I'm with tunder on this one. After 50 msgs, despite repeated
questions, we still don't know what the hell Palmer or his wife were
actually eating, what diet if any they are actually following.

Here'e two good excerpts from posts made by Palmer that show why some
of us are having problems with this whole story:

Post 1 that started this:
"Recently I
:::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but

:::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::: about 20g of carbs. "

Post 47 from today:
"My wife had a colonoscopy, and they found nothing. Actually, I had
thought that they might find this huge pile of [censored] clogging her
plumbing somewhere, but they found zip. Could it just be the radical
change from high carb, say 500 or more grams per day, to low-carb,
around 20 per day?"

So, how which is it? Is your wife consuming 75-100g plus or minus 20g
like in Post 1, or 20g as in Post 47? And then you wonder why some
of us find all this hard to believe?

Come to think of it how could they possibly find a pile of [censored] in a
colonoscopy after the prep one has to go through.

In news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> stated
| "My wife had a colonoscopy, and they found nothing. Actually, I had
| thought that they might find this huge pile of [censored] clogging her
| plumbing somewhere, but they found zip. Could it just be the radical
| change from high carb, say 500 or more grams per day, to low-carb,
| around 20 per day?"
|
|
|
| So, how which is it? Is your wife consuming 75-100g plus or minus
| 20g like in Post 1, or 20g as in Post 47? And then you wonder why
| some of us find all this hard to believe?

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: MDS wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email hidden]...
:::::: MDS wrote:
:::::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:::::::: news:[email hidden]...
:::::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain
:::::::::::: in my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital.
:::::::::::: They ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit
:::::::::::: the diet and the pain went away. About six months later I
:::::::::::: tried Atkins again, and once again the pain came back.
:::::::::::: This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went to my
:::::::::::: doctor and asked him for pain medicine and quit the diet.
:::::::::::: The pain went away. This past February my wife and I went
:::::::::::: on Atkins together. This time I did not experience pain,
:::::::::::: but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go to the
:::::::::::: hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::::::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away.
:::::::::::: Recently I was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to
:::::::::::: follow a low-carb but not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I
:::::::::::: didn't do any two-week indroduction period and started the
:::::::::::: diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day. I have been
:::::::::::: steadily losing about three pounds per week. My wife also
:::::::::::: started dieting. Her carb intake was greatly diminished
:::::::::::: and was comparable to mine, give or take about 20g of
:::::::::::: carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those stomach
:::::::::::: pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I think
:::::::::::: it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::::::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this,
:::::::::::: and can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet
:::::::::::: might experience this pain?
:::::::::
::::::::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
:::::::::
::::::::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After
::::::::: hearing your story of severe pain after several attempts and
::::::::: seeing how you believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it
::::::::: hard to believe you resumed this diet, let alone bringing
::::::::: your SO into it.
::::::::
::::::::
:::::::: I can certainly understand Palmer's being [censored] at people
:::::::: who say things like you just said. Let me repost for you what
:::::::: he did say. From his very first message: "Recently I was
:::::::: diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb BUT
:::::::: NOT NECESSARILY ATKINS-TYPE DIET (emphasis mine). I didn't do
:::::::: any two-week indroduction period and started the diet tkaing
:::::::: in 75-100g of carbs per day."
::::::::
:::::::: This doesn't sound like Atkins to me. It just sounds like
:::::::: low-carb. I'm not being sarcastic, Roger, because we're cool
:::::::: over in alt.support.diabetes, but I don't know whether you
:::::::: just missed those words or you just were paying more attention
:::::::: to other people who were accusing him of being on Atkins. The
:::::::: induction phase will cause ketosis for sure, which is probably
:::::::: why he didn't do it again. It's also why I didn't do it when
:::::::: I went low carb after being diagnosed with diabetes. Now if
:::::::: I'm reading his initial post correctly, he also said "My wife
:::::::: also started dieting." And that was it. No mention of Atkins.
::::::
:::::: I think you guys are having comprehension problems. Did you read
:::::: the first part of his statement? Consider this:
::::::
:::::: Palmer wrote:
:::::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain
:::::::::::: in my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital.
:::::::::::: They ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit
:::::::::::: the diet and the pain went away. About six months later I
:::::::::::: tried Atkins again, and once again the pain came back.
:::::::::::: This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went to my
:::::::::::: doctor and asked him for pain medicine and quit the diet.
:::::::::::: The pain went away. This past February my wife and I went
:::::::::::: on Atkins together. This time I did not experience pain,
:::::::::::: but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go to the
:::::::::::: hospital.
::::::
:::::: He is talking about Atkins specifically and saying he knew it was
:::::: the diet. If he didn't write this, then I apologize, but that's
:::::: what I read and responded to. I'm also saying that the lack fiber
:::::: and the potential of preexisting undiagnosed diverticulosis could
:::::: be the reason for this (rather than ketosis and lack of carbs -
:::::: those links are BS). Why am I saying this? Because that's
:::::: exactly what my problem was (is) and I deal with it by eating
:::::: more fiber in diet, not necessarily carbs. Broccoli is good! I
:::::: don't think diverticulosis can be diagnosed without probing
:::::: <ick>.
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: Look let's forget about it.
:::
::: No problem.
:::
::::: Your idea makes alot of sense and is
::::: worth exploring, Roger. Both Palmer and I, and apparently you,
::::: had problems on ketosis.
:::
::: I had problems on induction, not ketosis. I don't think ketosis is
::: the problem. People like to blame it for stuff, because they think
::: it's an abnormal state of being. It's not. There is research that
::: says that ketosis is a good state for the body to be in.
:::
::::: Constipation is really all people needed to
::::: suggest, instead of attacking Palmer like some heretic.
:::
::: Hey, we get a lot of trolls here. I'm sure Palmer didn't intend to
::: look that way, but he was blaming Atkins for this problem and then
::: giving links to the known nutcases. I'm not sure I blame him for
::: making changes though based on what happened and what seemed to
::: solve the problem. You gotta do what you gotta do. However, all of
::: this other stuff about eating low carb goodies came out and many of
::: us know well the effects of sugar alcohols! Who knows what the real
::: deal is or was.
::
::
:: Well I can tell you, and you already know this, that I eat low-carb
:: Russell Stover candy bars, which all have those sugar alcohols in
:: them. One time I ate too many and got the [censored]. Other than that,
:: I eat them just fine. If YMMV is true, people shouldn't rush to
:: judgement on those sugar alcohols. We don't even know how many of
:: those candies he is eating.
::
::
:::
::: I'm almost
::::: inclined to agree with him. Some of the people here seem to have a
::::: cultist mentality, although in the end I'm sure that's not really
::::: the case. Simple fact: Palmer, Roger, and I had serious pain
::::: during ketosis.
:::
::: Not ketosis. Induction with too little fiber, in my case, at least.
::: Inexperienced LCing, IMO.
::
::
:: That was probably my problem, too. Looking back, I can see a whole
:: lotta protein and not much fiber at all.
::
::
:::
::: Possible explanation? Constipation. Question: I remember
::::: when I had the stomach pains, and my first bowel movement after
::::: the pains began, iirc, was like a small, thin turd.
:::
::: We've had discussions here about this. You are not alone there.
::: That sounds like constipation to me.
::
:: Well then maybe that was the culprit. See? Level heads like you
:: and me should be running this world, Roger. We could really get
:: some [censored] done!
::
::
:::
::: Hey we're all
::::: adults here, and these things are important! Get over it! Anyway,
::::: does that sound right, or would it be more like one of my
::::: ex-girlfriends whose pain didn't stop until she passed a small but
::::: extremely thick turd?
:::
::: Well, I have dropped some rock-hard pellets with too little fiber
::: in my diet. So constipation is a possibility. In my case, I had
::: it on top of diverticulosis, and the diverticula became inflamed.
::: I had bleeding, too. That wasn't fun, I tell ya.
::
::
:: I know all too well about the bleeding part.

There are a lot of people in here who really know their [censored] on LCing, so
keep that in mind. You ought to hang out here more, MDS. The trolls are
sometimes amazing and they get eating like bait, too.
Another longstanding usenet rule is to lurk a while before posting. Good
idea for noobs.

Saffire wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>, MDS
:: ([email hidden]) says...
:::
::: <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::: news:[email hidden]...
::::
:::: Palmer wrote:
::::: [email hidden] wrote:
::::::
:::::: What exactly are you eating when you supposedly do Atkins? Give
:::::: us an example of what you would eat in a day.
::::::
:::::: TC
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::: I'm not doing Atkins. I'm simply eating less carbs and trying to
::::: control my blood sugar, which I have done pretty successfully.
::::: My wife was supposed to be eating lunch and breakfast but had
::::: been skipping both and then eating a low-carb dinner with me.
::::: That might be why she went into Ketosis. Who knows, but I told
::::: her that she needs to eat more carbs at breakfast and lunch.
::::
:::: Answer the goddamned question. Your statements do not make any
:::: sense.
::::
:::: You are doing low carb and it causes you major stomach pain, twice
:::: now, and your wife experienced it once. But you aren't telling us
:::: exactly what you did eat, only that you are eating less carbs.
:::: That means that you've hardly made any changes to your diet but it
:::: somehow is supposed to be causing you some serious pain. That does
:::: not make sense. And now you say that your wife skips two meals and
:::: a snack, what kind of stupidity is that? It still makes no sense.
::::
:::: And you say that maybe skipping meals and eating low carb may be
:::: why she went into ketosis, as if ketosis is somehow related to and
:::: possibly the cause of her stomach pain. How do you know "she went
:::: into ketosis" and how is that relevant? Starvation by itself does
:::: not necessarily lead to ketosis.
::::
:::: Tell us exactly what you guys ate at breakfast, at lunch, at
:::: supper and in between. We will tell you if it is in fact low carb
:::: and if it could be the cause of your pain or not.
::::
:::: Personally, I think you are a troll and a lying piece of [censored]
:::: simply because your story does not make any sense and you are not
:::: volunteering any useful information that could even remotely
:::: explain the alleged pains.
:::
:::
:::
::: Personally I think your father must have raped you as a baby, and
::: this is the source of all your current hostility. If asked more
::: civily he might have answered. I would have told you what happened
::: to me and what I ate. Instead, you act like a mentally retarded
::: momma's boy who sits at home and pounds away at his keyboard trying
::: to get out his anger because his momma treats him like a little
::: baby.
::
:: At this point, I'd say that Palmer/MDS is DEFINITELY a troll. In
:: fact, I suspect he's the same troll that's been popping up here off
:: and on and used to come in via Newsguy. Now he's coming in via
:: Easynews. He tried to change his approach from being overtly
:: obnoxious, but he still can't stop bashing his wife for being on
:: Atkins, and his disdain for her is clear. Notice that he talks
:: about her in a derogatory/objectifying manner and refers to what
:: sounds like what he considers to be DISOBEDIENCE in nearly every
:: post, including saying that he thought maybe the problem was a
:: massive pile of [censored] clogging her up. Clearly he's STILL blaming
:: Atkins for the breakup of his marriage, even though it's been
:: several years now.

That might be the case for Palmer, but not for MDS. They are two different
people, IMO, I'd bet money on such.

[email hidden] wrote:
:: I'm with tunder on this one. After 50 msgs, despite repeated
:: questions, we still don't know what the hell Palmer or his wife were
:: actually eating, what diet if any they are actually following.
::
::
:: Here'e two good excerpts from posts made by Palmer that show why some
:: of us are having problems with this whole story:
::
:: Post 1 that started this:
:: "Recently I
:::::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb
:::::::: but
::
:::::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::::: about 20g of carbs. "
::
::
:: Post 47 from today:
:: "My wife had a colonoscopy, and they found nothing. Actually, I had
:: thought that they might find this huge pile of [censored] clogging her
:: plumbing somewhere, but they found zip. Could it just be the radical
:: change from high carb, say 500 or more grams per day, to low-carb,
:: around 20 per day?"
::
::
::
:: So, how which is it? Is your wife consuming 75-100g plus or minus
:: 20g like in Post 1, or 20g as in Post 47? And then you wonder why
:: some of us find all this hard to believe?

Yep, it's damn hard to believe he's not a troll. Frankly, his entire
pattern here is very trollish. However, I'm not sure if that last statement
implies she was actually at 20g of carbs per day....sounds like he was just
shooting for an explanation...and the statement isn't really in reference to
his wife, though the first one obviously is.

Finally, those looking for help typically don't become combative so quickly.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: MDS wrote:
::::: "Palmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email hidden]...
:::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain in my
:::::: stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital. They ran
:::::: tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit the diet and the
:::::: pain went away. About six months later I tried Atkins again,
:::::: and once again the pain came back. This time I knew it had to be
:::::: the diet. I went to my doctor and asked him for pain medicine
:::::: and quit the diet. The pain went away. This past February my
:::::: wife and I went on Atkins together. This time I did not
:::::: experience pain, but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go
:::::: to the hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away. Recently I
:::::: was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb but
:::::: not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I didn't do any two-week
:::::: indroduction period and started the diet tkaing in 75-100g of
:::::: carbs per day. I have been steadily losing about three pounds
:::::: per week. My wife also started dieting. Her carb intake was
:::::: greatly diminished and was comparable to mine, give or take
:::::: about 20g of carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those
:::::: stomach pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I
:::::: think it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this, and
:::::: can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet might
:::::: experience this pain?
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: About five years ago I had the same thing happen to me. I was
::::: about three or four days from the end of my induction phase when
::::: all of a sudden I began feeling the most terrible stomach pain.
::::: I posted what happened as a result of this in another message.
::::: All I know was that the morphine they gave me in the hospital
::::: couldn't start working fast enough, and when it finally did kick
::::: it it was like heaven.
:::
::: When you say stomach pain, where exactly was this pain? If it's
::: lower abdomen then it is not stomach pain.
::
::
:: It actually started around my navel and then over a short period of
:: time moved to my lower right side. I guess that's what made the
:: doctor think of appendicitis first. What made him really suspect it
:: after that was when he pushed down on where the pain was. I nearly
:: jumped off the table because it hurt so bad.

Well, it wasn't your stomach for sure! It could have been a mass that was
simply causing blockage. I've had that too....I think some people are

more

Quoted message said:

susceptable than others to this. On LC, I generally don't have this

problem

Quoted message said:

when I'm eating and exercising right.

I'm certain that is not due to being in ketosis, however. I've done some
extreme things to get into ketosis quickly, as as long as I'm getting

fiber,

Quoted message said:

I don't have issues.

I only know that I'm getting plenty of fiber now. Some people in here might
take issue with some of what I'm eating, but that's their problem. It's
working for me. I'm more or less regular (that's [censored] on a regular
basis for those of you in Yahooville), the weight is slowly coming off, the
BG is fairly normal (although I'm still having a problem with my morning BG;
it was 129 this morning when I woke up), and I feel so much more energy and
less fatigue. That's good enough for me. See ya around Roger. Now it's
off to dinner for me. Be well, dude.

--
MDS (Mister Doctor Sir)

"MDS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 31 May 2006 09:32:29 GMT, Palmer <[email hidden]> wrote:

|Jeri wrote:
|>
|> Palmer <[email hidden]> wrote:
|> <snip>
|> > For me and for my wife the first time
|> > she tried it, it was always straight protein and maybe some cool

whip.

Quoted message said:

|>
|> Wait a minute........are you saying you're eating nothing but protein

and a

Quoted message said:

|> little coolwhip??
|
|
|
|No I meant the first time we both tried it at the same time, and for me
|alone those two times before I met my wife. Today I'm eating, in
|addition to the meats and cheeses, low-carb bread, sugar-free candy,
|low-carb pizzas, even half an ear of corn...it's all good!

You're joking, right? BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You're an [censored]. He said he has his blood glucose under control and is
losing weight. He also didn't say he has experienced any abdominal
discomfort this time around. So if it's working for him, who the hell are
you to act like he's doing something wrong? I also eat low-carb pizzas
made
from toasted low-carb wraps, low-carb pizza sauce, mushrooms, and
mozzarella. My BG only goes up ten numbers afterwards. The wraps are
whole
wheat. Half an ear of corn? I haven't tried that, but if it works for
him,
who the hell are you to act like a two-year-old about it? Sugar-free
candy?
I eat low-carb candy bars with the sugar alcohols in them because it
quenches my sweet tooth. And my BG rises only slightly afterwards. So
you're problem with this is? Don't bother replying. I can tell from the
stupid "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" that you are incapable of having an
intelligent discussion. In my killfile you go, you moron.

Peter is just grumpy because the stroke made his pee pee quit working.
Laureen's gonna try to help get it working when he and the wife take their
swingers trip later this year.

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger Zoul (rogerzoul2
@hotmail.com) says...

Quoted message said:

Saffire wrote:

That might be the case for Palmer, but not for MDS. They are two different
people, IMO, I'd bet money on such.

So there are TWO [censored] from the same news server who just happened to
show up at the same time claiming the same experience. Okay.

--
Saffire
205/140/135-140 (aka JUST RIGHT!)
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

Yep, it's damn hard to believe he's not a troll. Frankly, his entire
pattern here is very trollish. However, I'm not sure if that last statement
implies she was actually at 20g of carbs per day....sounds like he was just
shooting for an explanation...and the statement isn't really in reference to
his wife, though the first one obviously is.

Finally, those looking for help typically don't become combative so quickly.

And MDS sure has a timbre not unlike a certain "doctor" from Atlanta who
has the distinction of being the only person to have his own wing in my
killfile.

--
***************************
Wayne Crannell
Atkins+ 10/21/01
249/141
***************************

Saffire wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>, Roger Zoul
:: (rogerzoul2 @hotmail.com) says...
::: Saffire wrote:
:::
::: That might be the case for Palmer, but not for MDS. They are two
::: different people, IMO, I'd bet money on such.
::
:: So there are TWO [censored] from the same news server who just
:: happened to show up at the same time claiming the same experience.
:: Okay.

MDS as been on the diabetes newsgroup for some time....controling his BG
with LC. Who knows about Palmer.

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger Zoul (rogerzoul2
@hotmail.com) says...

Quoted message said:

Saffire wrote:

That might be the case for Palmer, but not for MDS. They are two

different

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people, IMO, I'd bet money on such.

So there are TWO [censored] from the same news server who just happened to
show up at the same time claiming the same experience. Okay.

And since Roger just admitted to having the experience himself (low fiber,
not ketosis), I guess that makes us THREE [censored]. It's people like you,
Saffire, who desserve everything you get and more.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MDS wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: MDS wrote:
::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
::::: news:[email hidden]...
:::::: MDS wrote:
:::::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:::::::: news:[email hidden]...
:::::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain
:::::::::::: in my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital.
:::::::::::: They ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit
:::::::::::: the diet and the pain went away. About six months later I
:::::::::::: tried Atkins again, and once again the pain came back.
:::::::::::: This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went to my
:::::::::::: doctor and asked him for pain medicine and quit the diet.
:::::::::::: The pain went away. This past February my wife and I went
:::::::::::: on Atkins together. This time I did not experience pain,
:::::::::::: but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go to the
:::::::::::: hospital. They ran a whole bunch of tests but found
:::::::::::: nothing. She quit the diet, and the pain went away.
:::::::::::: Recently I was diagnosed with diabetes and decided to
:::::::::::: follow a low-carb but not necessarily Atkins-type diet. I
:::::::::::: didn't do any two-week indroduction period and started the
:::::::::::: diet tkaing in 75-100g of carbs per day. I have been
:::::::::::: steadily losing about three pounds per week. My wife also
:::::::::::: started dieting. Her carb intake was greatly diminished
:::::::::::: and was comparable to mine, give or take about 20g of
:::::::::::: carbs. Yesterday she started experiencing those stomach
:::::::::::: pains, and she wanted to go back to the hospital. I think
:::::::::::: it's a waste of time and money because I know it's the
:::::::::::: diet. Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this,
:::::::::::: and can anyone explain why someone on a low-carb diet
:::::::::::: might experience this pain?
:::::::::
::::::::: Constipation. Bad meat? Who knows?
:::::::::
::::::::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe. After
::::::::: hearing your story of severe pain after several attempts and
::::::::: seeing how you believed the reason to be Atkins, I find it
::::::::: hard to believe you resumed this diet, let alone bringing
::::::::: your SO into it.
::::::::
::::::::
:::::::: I can certainly understand Palmer's being [censored] at people
:::::::: who say things like you just said. Let me repost for you what
:::::::: he did say. From his very first message: "Recently I was
:::::::: diagnosed with diabetes and decided to follow a low-carb BUT
:::::::: NOT NECESSARILY ATKINS-TYPE DIET (emphasis mine). I didn't do
:::::::: any two-week indroduction period and started the diet tkaing
:::::::: in 75-100g of carbs per day."
::::::::
:::::::: This doesn't sound like Atkins to me. It just sounds like
:::::::: low-carb. I'm not being sarcastic, Roger, because we're cool
:::::::: over in alt.support.diabetes, but I don't know whether you
:::::::: just missed those words or you just were paying more attention
:::::::: to other people who were accusing him of being on Atkins. The
:::::::: induction phase will cause ketosis for sure, which is probably
:::::::: why he didn't do it again. It's also why I didn't do it when
:::::::: I went low carb after being diagnosed with diabetes. Now if
:::::::: I'm reading his initial post correctly, he also said "My wife
:::::::: also started dieting." And that was it. No mention of Atkins.
::::::
:::::: I think you guys are having comprehension problems. Did you read
:::::: the first part of his statement? Consider this:
::::::
:::::: Palmer wrote:
:::::::::::: Okay here's my situation. About three years ago I went on
:::::::::::: Atkins, and after 7-10 days I developed this horrific pain
:::::::::::: in my stomach that was so bad I had to go to the hospital.
:::::::::::: They ran tests but couldn't find anything wrong. I quit
:::::::::::: the diet and the pain went away. About six months later I
:::::::::::: tried Atkins again, and once again the pain came back.
:::::::::::: This time I knew it had to be the diet. I went to my
:::::::::::: doctor and asked him for pain medicine and quit the diet.
:::::::::::: The pain went away. This past February my wife and I went
:::::::::::: on Atkins together. This time I did not experience pain,
:::::::::::: but she did. It was horrible, and she had to go to the
:::::::::::: hospital.
::::::
:::::: He is talking about Atkins specifically and saying he knew it was
:::::: the diet. If he didn't write this, then I apologize, but that's
:::::: what I read and responded to. I'm also saying that the lack fiber
:::::: and the potential of preexisting undiagnosed diverticulosis could
:::::: be the reason for this (rather than ketosis and lack of carbs -
:::::: those links are BS). Why am I saying this? Because that's
:::::: exactly what my problem was (is) and I deal with it by eating
:::::: more fiber in diet, not necessarily carbs. Broccoli is good! I
:::::: don't think diverticulosis can be diagnosed without probing
:::::: <ick>.
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::: Look let's forget about it.
:::
::: No problem.
:::
::::: Your idea makes alot of sense and is
::::: worth exploring, Roger. Both Palmer and I, and apparently you,
::::: had problems on ketosis.
:::
::: I had problems on induction, not ketosis. I don't think ketosis is
::: the problem. People like to blame it for stuff, because they think
::: it's an abnormal state of being. It's not. There is research that
::: says that ketosis is a good state for the body to be in.
:::
::::: Constipation is really all people needed to
::::: suggest, instead of attacking Palmer like some heretic.
:::
::: Hey, we get a lot of trolls here. I'm sure Palmer didn't intend to
::: look that way, but he was blaming Atkins for this problem and then
::: giving links to the known nutcases. I'm not sure I blame him for
::: making changes though based on what happened and what seemed to
::: solve the problem. You gotta do what you gotta do. However, all of
::: this other stuff about eating low carb goodies came out and many of
::: us know well the effects of sugar alcohols! Who knows what the real
::: deal is or was.
::
::
:: Well I can tell you, and you already know this, that I eat low-carb
:: Russell Stover candy bars, which all have those sugar alcohols in
:: them. One time I ate too many and got the [censored]. Other than that,
:: I eat them just fine. If YMMV is true, people shouldn't rush to
:: judgement on those sugar alcohols. We don't even know how many of
:: those candies he is eating.
::
::
:::
::: I'm almost
::::: inclined to agree with him. Some of the people here seem to have a
::::: cultist mentality, although in the end I'm sure that's not really
::::: the case. Simple fact: Palmer, Roger, and I had serious pain
::::: during ketosis.
:::
::: Not ketosis. Induction with too little fiber, in my case, at least.
::: Inexperienced LCing, IMO.
::
::
:: That was probably my problem, too. Looking back, I can see a whole
:: lotta protein and not much fiber at all.
::
::
:::
::: Possible explanation? Constipation. Question: I remember
::::: when I had the stomach pains, and my first bowel movement after
::::: the pains began, iirc, was like a small, thin turd.
:::
::: We've had discussions here about this. You are not alone there.
::: That sounds like constipation to me.
::
:: Well then maybe that was the culprit. See? Level heads like you
:: and me should be running this world, Roger. We could really get
:: some [censored] done!
::
::
:::
::: Hey we're all
::::: adults here, and these things are important! Get over it! Anyway,
::::: does that sound right, or would it be more like one of my
::::: ex-girlfriends whose pain didn't stop until she passed a small but
::::: extremely thick turd?
:::
::: Well, I have dropped some rock-hard pellets with too little fiber
::: in my diet. So constipation is a possibility. In my case, I had
::: it on top of diverticulosis, and the diverticula became inflamed.
::: I had bleeding, too. That wasn't fun, I tell ya.
::
::
:: I know all too well about the bleeding part.

There are a lot of people in here who really know their [censored] on LCing, so
keep that in mind. You ought to hang out here more, MDS. The trolls are
sometimes amazing and they get eating like bait, too.
Another longstanding usenet rule is to lurk a while before posting. Good
idea for noobs.

I've already lurked here for about six weeks. That's usually too long for a
newbie to wait before jumping it. It's fine to know one's [censored] about
something, but after what I've just seen here, I'd rather ask for help over
in diabetes. Of all the people here, you're the only one I have any respect
for.

Palmer wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::
::: Palmer wrote:
::::: Patricia Martin Steward wrote:
::::::
:::::: On Wed, 31 May 2006 18:17:18 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::::
::::::: Frankly, your story sounds a bit hard to believe.
::::::
:::::: Ya think?
:::::
:::::
::::: http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/dietarytherapy/a/OnlineRegistry.htm
:::::
::::: 11 reported irritable bowel syndrome, severe abdominal pain, or
::::: cramps (6%)
:::::
:::::
::::: http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/highprotein_registry.html
:::::
::::: 31 reported severe gastrointestinal problems including irritable
::::: bowel syndrome, diverticulititis, ulcers, heart burn, vomiting,
::::: severe abdominal pain, or cramps
:::::
:::::
::::: http://www.changingshape.com/resources/articles/low-carb-diet.asp
:::::
::::: Most low-carb diets cause ketosis. Some of the potential
::::: consequences are nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and confusion.
:::::
:::::
::::: Gee, ya think??
:::
::: In my case, I have diverticulosis, which I had before starting LC.
::: Due to lack of sufficient fiber and water intake, the induction
::: stage would cause me problems if I stayed on it too long. Uppng
::: fiber was a solution for me, not upping carbs or coming out of
::: ketosis.
:::
::: PCRM are a bunch of whack job nut cases, Palmer.
:::
::: Eat more broccoli. Problem solved!
::
::
:: Thanks for the more civilized reply. I don't agree with you about
:: the nut cases comment. All some of them were reporting were problems
:: reported. These could very well have been authentic problems that
:: the die-hard believers here just refuse to accept because those
:: problems didn't happen to them. Each problem may have had a simple
:: explanation that a biased researcher might have left out, but this
:: doesn't change the fact that such problems need to be addressed. I
:: wish you would have said this earlier, and then we could have
:: discussed it more at length.

I don't disagree that some people will have problems that aren't common for
most LCers. But then again, one never can be sure what some people are
doing when they claim to be doing Atkins. People, as a group, do some
really stupid things in the name of dieting.

PCRM are nutcases, period. If you haven't been following them, then you are
in no position to comment on them, so you don't know. But if you have been,
that surely puts you in the troll group. Which is it, Palmer?

MDS wrote:

::: There are a lot of people in here who really know their [censored] on
::: LCing, so keep that in mind. You ought to hang out here more, MDS.
::: The trolls are sometimes amazing and they get eating like bait, too.
::: Another longstanding usenet rule is to lurk a while before posting.
::: Good idea for noobs.
::
::
:: I've already lurked here for about six weeks. That's usually too
:: long for a newbie to wait before jumping it. It's fine to know
:: one's [censored] about something, but after what I've just seen here, I'd
:: rather ask for help over in diabetes. Of all the people here,
:: you're the only one I have any respect for.

I really think you should reconsider this, MDS. There are a lot of good
people here, you just caught them in the mist of a likely troll. We protect
newbies from would be trolls who seek to spread misinformation about LC in
general, though Atkins tends to be the main target (and this is NOT an
Atkins-only newsgroup).

The fact is, diet is very, very similar to religion. Heck, I don't even
talk about LC to my work friends any more, even though many of them have
gained incredible amounts of weight since I started LCing while I have
maintained my loss (142 lbs - starting in 10/01). What you can take from
this is that people here have a lot invested in LCing....we are lifetime
LCers...and have developed a lot of skill in applying it in many situations!
Heck, finding LC saved my life, man, and I think many here would say the
same, or something similar. You simply won't find the skill at LCing in the
diabetes group that you'll find here. Many of those folks still dance around
the carb issue, IMO.