Poll: What's your Functional Threshold power?

[acoggan]

I'm not sure what it's like out there, but in New England, as a cat 3, you need a FTP of around 5w/kg to win the hilly road races. At 79kg, I (among many others) got dropped by the 3 field on a 5 minute climb, where my power was averaging around 450w.

I don't think that you can assume that just because you got "popped" on a 5 min climb that everyone who rode away from you has a higher functional threshold power. For example, take a look at the hilly road race file of mine on the CyclingPeaks website - those I was racing against may not (or may) have realized it at the time, but I was at my absolute limit (i.e., 5.5 W/kg for 6 min) the first time up Harp Hill, and in fact along with a half-dozen others fell behind the leaders at that point by 10-15 s. After a fast descent, I/we then had to chase back on the next uphill (labeled "Bridge to catch leaders"). This is directly analogous to your situation, as none of the other dozen or so riders who made the selection appear to have as high a functional threshold power as I do (at least based on the fact that I could put 2+ min into the best of them in a 40 km TT). Only later in the race, when their "batteries" began to run down due to the fact that they were over their functional threshold power more of the time, was I able to start punching back, eventually being able to get away solo to win the race.

 

[whoawhoa]

FTP:290ish (I plugged in some #'s from a 30 minute hill climb on ac and got 310, so I think this should be in the ballpark)
Age: 16
Mass: 62 kg
Racing Category: Junior Expert MTB/ Junior/cat 4 on the road (haven't done many senior races)
Years Cycling: I got my training wheels off at 4! So 12! Just over a year of serious training
Best Results: 1st junior, 3rd mens b @ UCI 'cross race, 1st french broad tt 15-16

 

[BlueJersey]

That's some awesome power to weight ratio. I am about your weight and twice your age. No where near your 290w FT.

FTP:290ish (I plugged in some #'s from a 30 minute hill climb on ac and got 310, so I think this should be in the ballpark)
Age: 16
Mass: 62 kg
Racing Category: Junior Expert MTB/ Junior/cat 4 on the road (haven't done many senior races)
Years Cycling: I got my training wheels off at 4! So 12! Just over a year of serious training
Best Results: 1st junior, 3rd mens b @ UCI 'cross race, 1st french broad tt 15-16

 

[whoawhoa]

That's some awesome power to weight ratio. I am about your weight and twice your age. No where near your 290w FT.

Yeah, well, I think my one minute power is about 380 I'll have a closer estimate (although still an estimate) when I get my new trainer.

 

[beerco]

Im from MI, i now live in AZ where i can train all year and have lots of hills and mountains. im planning on going to Mi this year for a race or 2. you know of any RR there with lots of climbs?

Luckily for me there aren't too many hills in the Michigan races. The Kensington race in May has about 3 climbs/lap of about 3 to 5min each.

I've never been to it but the tour of Cedar creek apparently has some hills to. It's also the state championship this year so there goes my chances of a repeat championship as a 3

The tour of leelanau also is quite hilly but unless you're a really strong 3 or better it will be tough as it draws some pros.

Scott T - One of our guys did that 3's stage race in ohio and is trying to convince more of us to go this year. I suck on hills but might go just to help out - you do that race?

 

[Eldrack]

My FT is 220W, i'm 18 and have a weight of 69 kilos. Haven't been cycling very long though.

 

[beerco]

My point is that a 75kg cat 3 rider with a FTP of 340w, would not be cleaning up.

Well, I do know that with my race weight of around 75kg, I would certainly be mopping up the threes if I could get my FT up to 340

 

[Thorman]

Scott T - One of our guys did that 3's stage race in ohio and is trying to convince more of us to go this year. I suck on hills but might go just to help out - you do that race?

If you're referring to the Summer Solstice stage race down near Cincy it's pretty much dead flat except for one climb on the last stage, which is about half a mile and not too steep. They've added a TT and a crit this year so it should even it out a bit.

There's more info here:
http://www.ohiovalleyracing.org/

 

[PSUcycling]

racing for 2 years.

FTP 300w
weight 67 kg
age 24

cat 3/ will be a 2 this upcoming season (climber, duh!)

 

[acoggan]

racing for 2 years.

FTP 300w
weight 67 kg
age 24

cat 3/ will be a 2 this upcoming season (climber, duh!)

Except for our age differential, you sound a lot like me:

FTP 300 W
weight 68 kg
age 47

License still says cat. 2, but I couldn't really be a "player" in most P/1/2 races any more. If I downgraded to cat. 3, though, I'm certain that I could.

 

[PSUcycling]

Except for our age differential, you sound a lot like me:

FTP 300 W
weight 68 kg
age 47

License still says cat. 2, but I couldn't really be a "player" in most P/1/2 races any more. If I downgraded to cat. 3, though, I'm certain that I could.

nice!

also, i would like to reiterate a point that has been made before. Although my numbers are not that impressive, it looks like on paper that I would be a decent climber, and a mediocure Criter/RR. But what those numbers don't tell you is repeatability. I'm never the strongest guy in the race, let alone on the team, but after 4 hours of racing, i can place high in a RR, and especially in a crit that requires LOTS of hard accelerations. My favorite is the last crit of a 3 or 4 stage SR. The question could/should be what is your 60sec CP after 150miles of racing during a crit in the heat? Lots of variables...

 

[acoggan]

i would like to reiterate a point that has been made before. Although my numbers are not that impressive, it looks like on paper that I would be a decent climber, and a mediocure Criter/RR. But what those numbers don't tell you is repeatability. I'm never the strongest guy in the race, let alone on the team, but after 4 hours of racing, i can place high in a RR, and especially in a crit that requires LOTS of hard accelerations.

Actually, they do, at least in the sense that not only your endurance but your "repeatability" is directly linked to your muscle respiratory capacity, and hence your functional threshold power. Couple that with decent neuromuscular power (which I assume you have), and you're naturally going to be good at "worrying people to death" over the long haul. That's certainly always been the tactic that has gotten me the best results (a friend of mine once termed this the "scorched earth approach to racing").

 

[PSUcycling]

maybe i'm missing something...

i guess i see your point but i'm only getting the loose connection.

for example:

my teammate is a state TT champ, now a cat 2 38years old 180lbs and on most days can ride me OFF of his wheel. All of his CP tests are higher, in actual and close in p/wieght. This guy can flat out ride. and sprint.

At the end of long crits he doesn't quite have the snap to come around me. Now this is definately not the case on the 'wednesday night world cup' rides and in jumps, or even shorter TTT's.

how do you explain this? I really do not believe it is a mental barrier on his part, he can suffer.

 

[beerco]

how do you explain this? I really do not believe it is a mental barrier on his part, he can suffer.

I know you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway. I'll bet he spends too much time with his nose in the wind (or brakes too hard for corners in crits) during the race to be effective when it counts. You could verify this with powermeter files comparing you to him during the same crit.

Being naturally weak myself, I've learned to suck wheel very well and have managed to beat quite a few folk who are much stronger than me

 

[PSUcycling]

see thats the point, he doesn't do that. He is a very savy racer, i mean he's been a cat 2 for a year. You can't get there by making cat 5 mistakes.

..even if that was the case. Surly we can use my question hypothetically, and say assuming all else being equal, why would he not be able to repeat as well, also assuming his CP's are the same.

 

[acoggan]

Surly we can use my question hypothetically, and say assuming all else being equal, why would he not be able to repeat as well, also assuming his CP's are the same.

Not enough carbohydrate in his diet?

 

[PSUcycling]

very good point, i don't think he has the best diet.

 

[mises]

see thats the point, he doesn't do that. He is a very savy racer, i mean he's been a cat 2 for a year. You can't get there by making cat 5 mistakes.

..even if that was the case. Surly we can use my question hypothetically, and say assuming all else being equal, why would he not be able to repeat as well, also assuming his CP's are the same.

Another factor is what is being used for fuel. I suspect he's burning a lower % of fat for a given effort than you are so as time goes by he runs out of gas.

Ferrari uses a tank vs engine analogy in explaining better endurance. Your teammate has a great engine but no gas tank, you relatively the opposite.

Ferrari, and I guess he should know, also implies that doping can do a lot for the engine but the gas tank is almost impossible to improve that way, so shorter stage races and stages are in effect encouraging rather than discouraging doping. As a person with a great tank and no engine I wish all race organizers would take his advice. Maybe a 160km and 2 mountain pass minimum.

 

[acoggan]

Another factor is what is being used for fuel. I suspect he's burning a lower % of fat for a given effort than you are so as time goes by he runs out of gas.

Only if 1) his functional threshold power is really lower than PSUcycling's, rather than the same as assumed, or 2) he habitually eats a diet lower in fat (but in that case you'd expect him to fatigue later, not sooner).

 

[beerco]

see thats the point, he doesn't do that. He is a very savy racer, i mean he's been a cat 2 for a year. You can't get there by making cat 5 mistakes...even if that was the case.

Well, actually you can't really tell without a power file. I suspect that riders who are naturally strong never really learn to ride with the fear of being dropped because they're never really in over their heads. Just like climbers never learn to descend.

A good friend and I often race in the same training series. His FT was around 300w@73kg mine was 250@75kg. In the same races, his NP was consistently 20 to 30w higher than mine. He raced more aggressively because he had more power on hand. At the end of the day we were both really pack fill (bi weekly cat 12345 50mile crit).