Reckless, Aggressive Drivers: Homegrown Terrorists

[[email protected]]

On Feb 23, 7:56 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Driving isn't a privilege. It's a right; a right that comes with
> responsibilities.

Really? Is that in your constitution?

If so, I think a citation would dispel a lot of skepticism.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 23, 8:02 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> So they should build rinks a mile apart and only let the kids play the
> teams that play at the half a dozen that are closest?
>
> Riiiiiiight.

That certainly would be expensive. Here are some alternatives:

First, build the rinks five miles apart. Kids would then have to
travel less than three miles to get to the closest one.

Second, get the kids away from the video games, and take away their
high fructose corn syrup drinks and their fatty burgers, to reduce the
size of their fatty asses.

Third, get the kids used to moving around on their own. They should
then be able to haul their own bodies, plus whatever they need to play
games, three miles. Hell, they can take the bus if necessary.

Fourth, and probably most important, get the dads into counseling.
With professional help, they may be able to ditch the fantasy that
their little heroes will grow up to be professional hockey players.
Dads can get back to reality, and kids can get back to their
childhoods.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Alan Baker]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article
> > <93c9360f-06d6-4747-a42b-93d41727c93b@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> > donquijote1954 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 23, 3:58 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> In article
> >>> <[email protected]>,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> donquijote1954 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> On Feb 21, 7:38 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> <[email protected]>,
> >>>>> donquijote1954 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Feb 21, 1:01 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article
> >>>>>>> <368cf42f-4c77-4b27-8446-54a7b6197...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> >>>>>>> DennisTheBald <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Feb 21, 7:59 am, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 20, 6:30 pm, DennisTheBald <[email protected]>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> zle.com/ride_shirt-235520928427805825
> >>>>>>>>> And about the frugal scooters? They only got a little motor...
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.zazzle.com/scooter_shirt-235994025243531447
> >>>>>>>> yes, a little motor can only suck a little. Scooters suck <WAY/>
> >>>>>>>> less
> >>>>>>>> than cars, in fact they're almost as cool as bikes... if they
> >>>>>>>> were
> >>>>>>>> electric motors they would probably suck even less.
> >>>>>>> Riiiiight....
> >>>>>>> ...good luck getting your kids to their hockey game on a scooter.
> >>>>>> Just don't have so many kids. Or have them all ride bikes to the
> >>>>>> hockey game.
> >>>>>> Hey, a van sometimes is necessary. Nobody is preaching kicking the
> >>>>>> addiction altogether.
> >>>>> No.
> >>>>> Just making the subtle assumption that it *is* an addiction; something
> >>>>> bad and to be eliminated.
> >>>>> Personal vehicles are one of the greatest forces for personal liberty
> >>>>> and quality of life ever invented.
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Alan Baker
> >>>>> Vancouver, British Columbia
> >>>>> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> >>>>> to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
> >>>>> sit in the bottom of that cupboard."- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>> When you notice all the couch potatoes behind the wheel stuck in
> >>>> traffic jams, you know they are addicted to gas. Even Bush admitted
> >>>> it, didn't he?
> >>> I wouldn't know.
> >>>
> >>> But no, the existence of traffic jams doesn't show that.
> >> It only shows there no options other than sitting in endless traffic
> >> jams. Create the options, and you will see them come out of their
> >> cages.
> >
> > The options have existed for years.
> >
> > Here's a clue: people don't want them.
> >
> The answer then is to raise people with values that create a healthier,
> more sustainable society.

Riiiiiiight.

If people don't want the right things (i.e. the things *you* think they
should want) there's something wrong with *them*.

Please.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[Alan Baker]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> To every pay-off there's a proportional trade-off;
> >> that of personal motor cars comes at a pretty
> >> steep price.
> >
> > However steep the price is, it's an enormous net positive.
> >
> People in Copenhagen seem quite content with their lives (more so than
> any other major city according to surveys), yet personal automobile use
> is lower than any other major city in a developed nation except for some
> in Benelux.

Wow. Cities were the car was no consideration when they were built don't
work well with cars.

Shocked. I am shocked.

>
> >> As one of of the greatest forces for personal
> >> liberty and quality of life, the privilege to
> >> drive is so routinely abused that its benefits
> >> are obfuscated by a fog of death and destruction,
> >> let alone plain, antisocial behaviour in
> >> social environments.
> >
> > I think you have cars confused with pre-Prohibition saloons.
> >
> >> Personal liberty & quality
> >> of life, my ass! In Vancouver, streams of car
> >> traffic choke the life out of the city by
> >> preventing people from getting from A to B.
> >
> > I've been to Vancouver. Pretty damn big city in terms of area; getting
> > around the whole thing without a car would be rather painful.[...]
>
> Yes, without a car, you might have to actually interact with other
> people, rather than being isolated in your steel and glass cage.

That would assume that one spends all one's life inside a car.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[Alan Baker]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article
> > <355445d2-2207-4f53-8c4a-9f6bd836ab06@b29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 21, 7:36 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> [email protected] wrote:
> >>>> If your kids can't get themselves to their own hockey game, there's
> >>>> something seriously wrong.
> >>> They can just walk 15 miles on their own? At age 9?
> >> I didn't propose they walk 15 miles on their own, and not only because
> >> I didn't know what the distance was. I simply said there is
> >> _something_ seriously wrong with that situation.
> >>
> >> Possibilities are many. For example, there are serious problems with
> >> neighborhoods in which kids can't safely get around on their own.
> >> Isn't it foolish to build a world where a kid has to be transported
> >> everywhere by car? Yet that's the standard model for American
> >> suburbs.
> >>
> >> But beyond that: there's frequently something wrong with tying kids to
> >> a regimented sports schedule. I've seen firsthand the effects of
> >> demanding coaches and pushy parents. I think nine-year-old kids
> >> should be out exploring the world, and/or arranging pick-up games in
> >> their own neighborhood, not signed up for formal team sports.
> >
> > At what age would you graciously allow kids to start playing for formal
> > sports teams?
> >
> High school is early enough. Unless you think they need earlier
> conditioning in group think and obeying orders.

LOL

That's all you see in it, isn't it?

>
> >> But in general, I think if a kid has to be regularly transported 15
> >> miles by car, it's likely that _someone_ made a mistake - perhaps in
> >> planning, perhaps in objectives, perhaps in priorities. The mistake
> >> could have been made by government agencies, or by housing developers,
> >> or by voters, or by parents. But the situation is not good.
> >
> > On the contrary, the situation is fine.
> >
> >> I think the switch from kid-powered transportation to car-powered
> >> transportation has removed lots of opportunities for kids - and added
> >> lots of body fat and other health problems.
> >
> > You're assuming that the one eliminates the other and that is false.
> >
> There are a lot of things I would have changed about my childhood, but
> being shuttled around in a family vehicle is certainly not one of them.

Non sequitur.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[Alan Baker]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article
> > <913226af-dd72-4d9a-bd08-b4a180b8b041@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
> > Brian Huntley <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Feb 21, 2:47 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> On Feb 21, 2:27 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> >>>> If your kids can't get themselves to their own hockey game, there's
> >>>> something seriously wrong.
> >>> One of my coworkers lives in a small town. They borrow a neighboring
> >>> towns police force, and fire is volunteer. Nice town. His 12-year-
> >>> old son plays hockey. Some games are at 6AM, in Boston. Even if the
> >>> kid could get to the nearest train station, 10 miles away, with all of
> >>> his gear, there are no trains running that early. Other games are in
> >>> Plaistow, NH - there's no way to get there by train. Others are out
> >>> west, and if he makes the playoffs he'll be traveling out of state.
> >>> He's too young to work, and too young to drive. How do you suggest he
> >>> gets himself and all his equipment to his games?
> >> The somthing that's seriously wrong there is the hockey league, that
> >> expects kids and their parents to drive all over creation like that.
> >> If they must travel that far to find competition, why the heck doesn't
> >> the team meet at the local arena and have a team bus or something? Or
> >> better, why travel so darned far?
> >
> > So they should build rinks a mile apart and only let the kids play the
> > teams that play at the half a dozen that are closest?
> >
> > Riiiiiiight.
> >
> Answer the question - why do not the team members travel on a bus,
> instead of individual vehicles?

The families already have cars. It costs money to buy buses and pay
drivers and you'd need a lot of buses.

>
> Why do children need to be in these types of leagues in the first place?
> Is it really for them, or for the parent's ego (like so many organized
> youth sports)?

It's really for them. Sometimes, some parents forget that, but it really
is for the kids.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[Alan Baker]

In article
<8c5594fe-57ef-4d2d-9b37-5a56ad44632e@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Feb 23, 8:02 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > So they should build rinks a mile apart and only let the kids play the
> > teams that play at the half a dozen that are closest?
> >
> > Riiiiiiight.
>
> That certainly would be expensive. Here are some alternatives:
>
> First, build the rinks five miles apart. Kids would then have to
> travel less than three miles to get to the closest one.

And you're suggesting that they do that, how? It takes an adult about an
hour to walk three miles.

>
> Second, get the kids away from the video games, and take away their
> high fructose corn syrup drinks and their fatty burgers, to reduce the
> size of their fatty asses.
>
> Third, get the kids used to moving around on their own. They should
> then be able to haul their own bodies, plus whatever they need to play
> games, three miles. Hell, they can take the bus if necessary.

And when the team you need to play is 10 miles away?

>
> Fourth, and probably most important, get the dads into counseling.
> With professional help, they may be able to ditch the fantasy that
> their little heroes will grow up to be professional hockey players.
> Dads can get back to reality, and kids can get back to their
> childhoods.

And that childhood includes the desire to play sports on organized teams.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[Tom Sherman]

Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> It only shows there no options other than sitting in endless traffic
>>>> jams. Create the options, and you will see them come out of their
>>>> cages.
>>> The options have existed for years.
>>>
>>> Here's a clue: people don't want them.
>>>
>> The answer then is to raise people with values that create a healthier,
>> more sustainable society.
>
> Riiiiiiight.
>
> If people don't want the right things (i.e. the things *you* think they
> should want) there's something wrong with *them*.[...]
>
Now we are making progress.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> To every pay-off there's a proportional trade-off;
>>>> that of personal motor cars comes at a pretty
>>>> steep price.
>>> However steep the price is, it's an enormous net positive.
>>>
>> People in Copenhagen seem quite content with their lives (more so than
>> any other major city according to surveys), yet personal automobile use
>> is lower than any other major city in a developed nation except for some
>> in Benelux.
>
> Wow. Cities were the car was no consideration when they were built don't
> work well with cars.
>
> Shocked. I am shocked.[...]

Furthermore, these cities provide a higher quality of life than
auto-centric cites.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <913226af-dd72-4d9a-bd08-b4a180b8b041@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Brian Huntley <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 21, 2:47 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 21, 2:27 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> If your kids can't get themselves to their own hockey game, there's
>>>>>> something seriously wrong.
>>>>> One of my coworkers lives in a small town. They borrow a neighboring
>>>>> towns police force, and fire is volunteer. Nice town. His 12-year-
>>>>> old son plays hockey. Some games are at 6AM, in Boston. Even if the
>>>>> kid could get to the nearest train station, 10 miles away, with all of
>>>>> his gear, there are no trains running that early. Other games are in
>>>>> Plaistow, NH - there's no way to get there by train. Others are out
>>>>> west, and if he makes the playoffs he'll be traveling out of state.
>>>>> He's too young to work, and too young to drive. How do you suggest he
>>>>> gets himself and all his equipment to his games?
>>>> The somthing that's seriously wrong there is the hockey league, that
>>>> expects kids and their parents to drive all over creation like that.
>>>> If they must travel that far to find competition, why the heck doesn't
>>>> the team meet at the local arena and have a team bus or something? Or
>>>> better, why travel so darned far?
>>> So they should build rinks a mile apart and only let the kids play the
>>> teams that play at the half a dozen that are closest?
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiight.
>>>
>> Answer the question - why do not the team members travel on a bus,
>> instead of individual vehicles?
>
> The families already have cars. It costs money to buy buses and pay
> drivers and you'd need a lot of buses.
>
If one needs a lot of buses, then how many freaking individual motor
vehicles does it take?

Until shown proof, I will not believe that every parent driving one or
two children in a motor vehicle is less expensive than a bus.

>> Why do children need to be in these types of leagues in the first place?
>> Is it really for them, or for the parent's ego (like so many organized
>> youth sports)?
>
> It's really for them. Sometimes, some parents forget that, but it really
> is for the kids.
>
Maybe the parents think the children need to be regimented, but is that
what the children really want, or are they taught what to believe?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

Alan Baker wrote:
> In article
> <8c5594fe-57ef-4d2d-9b37-5a56ad44632e@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Feb 23, 8:02 pm, Alan Baker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> So they should build rinks a mile apart and only let the kids play the
>>> teams that play at the half a dozen that are closest?
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiight.
>> That certainly would be expensive. Here are some alternatives:
>>
>> First, build the rinks five miles apart. Kids would then have to
>> travel less than three miles to get to the closest one.
>
> And you're suggesting that they do that, how? It takes an adult about an
> hour to walk three miles.

And 20 minutes cycling at a leisurely pace.
>
>> Second, get the kids away from the video games, and take away their
>> high fructose corn syrup drinks and their fatty burgers, to reduce the
>> size of their fatty asses.
>>
>> Third, get the kids used to moving around on their own. They should
>> then be able to haul their own bodies, plus whatever they need to play
>> games, three miles. Hell, they can take the bus if necessary.
>
> And when the team you need to play is 10 miles away?
>
Drive the bus a little farther?

>> Fourth, and probably most important, get the dads into counseling.
>> With professional help, they may be able to ditch the fantasy that
>> their little heroes will grow up to be professional hockey players.
>> Dads can get back to reality, and kids can get back to their
>> childhoods.
>
> And that childhood includes the desire to play sports on organized teams.
>
A desire no doubt inoculated into the children by adults.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Robert Bolton]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David White wrote:
>> "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:ce2543e5-da33-46d5-aa63-e85ce03fa5d3@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 20, 11:35 am, "Bob Myers" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> Which is why I think all people who can, should ride a M/Cycle to
>>>> prove they can drive adequately....failing the test can mean a
>>>> failure in
>>>> a
>>>> close casket.....not much to add to that...
>>>> Although some need a 4 wheeler for cargo space, 90% of them don't,
>>>> and gobble up the city's parking spaces horrendously. In my City, the
>>>> meter
>>>> maids and insurance companies dump on the M/C guys big time, in a
>>>> vain
>>>> attempt to cause as much damage as possible to the environment and
>>>> keep
>>>> the
>>>> accident flow coming their way.....
>>> Just wait for gas to get even pricier than it is now, and
>>> I think we'll start to see a lot more cagers looking
>>> longingly at two-wheeled transportation. In the
>>> cities, probably be a lot more scooters - even seen,
>>> say, downtown Taipei during rush hour?
>>>
>>> Bob M.
>>
>>> Yeah, but prices are not nearly high enough to make >people move into
>>> scooters. Maybe above $8.
>>
>> >Parking spaces could be another factor. Small compact >cities like
>> Key
>>> West (pop. 25,000) rely a lot on scooters and bikes.
>>
>>> And last but not least the factor that keeps most people >from trying
>>> two wheels is... FEAR. In the land of the dinosaurs, the >little furry
>>> animals must be very careful.
>>
>> But, there are those who have not the co-ordination to ride
>> motorcycles.
> There is always a vehicle like this for such people:
> <http://www.twike.com/english_informations.html>. If mass produced the
> price would drop dramatically.
>
The annual Fur Rondezvous is underway here in Anchorage. I visited the
antique auto display to day and saw a Free Way (yellow, with single head
light).

http://clubs.hemmings.com/frameset.cfm?club=hmvfreeway

Robert

 

[Alan Baker]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
> >>> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> To every pay-off there's a proportional trade-off;
> >>>> that of personal motor cars comes at a pretty
> >>>> steep price.
> >>> However steep the price is, it's an enormous net positive.
> >>>
> >> People in Copenhagen seem quite content with their lives (more so than
> >> any other major city according to surveys), yet personal automobile use
> >> is lower than any other major city in a developed nation except for some
> >> in Benelux.
> >
> > Wow. Cities were the car was no consideration when they were built don't
> > work well with cars.
> >
> > Shocked. I am shocked.[...]
>
> Furthermore, these cities provide a higher quality of life than
> auto-centric cites.

Do they?

And you know this because...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[Alan Baker]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Alan Baker wrote:
> >>> [...]
> >>>> It only shows there no options other than sitting in endless traffic
> >>>> jams. Create the options, and you will see them come out of their
> >>>> cages.
> >>> The options have existed for years.
> >>>
> >>> Here's a clue: people don't want them.
> >>>
> >> The answer then is to raise people with values that create a healthier,
> >> more sustainable society.
> >
> > Riiiiiiight.
> >
> > If people don't want the right things (i.e. the things *you* think they
> > should want) there's something wrong with *them*.[...]
> >
> Now we are making progress.

We certainly are.

You're a socialist, aren't you?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[Tom Sherman]

Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Keats <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> To every pay-off there's a proportional trade-off;
>>>>>> that of personal motor cars comes at a pretty
>>>>>> steep price.
>>>>> However steep the price is, it's an enormous net positive.
>>>>>
>>>> People in Copenhagen seem quite content with their lives (more so than
>>>> any other major city according to surveys), yet personal automobile use
>>>> is lower than any other major city in a developed nation except for some
>>>> in Benelux.
>>> Wow. Cities were the car was no consideration when they were built don't
>>> work well with cars.
>>>
>>> Shocked. I am shocked.[...]
>> Furthermore, these cities provide a higher quality of life than
>> auto-centric cites.
>
> Do they?
>
> And you know this because...
>
Because I have been to both type of places.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> It only shows there no options other than sitting in endless traffic
>>>>>> jams. Create the options, and you will see them come out of their
>>>>>> cages.
>>>>> The options have existed for years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a clue: people don't want them.
>>>>>
>>>> The answer then is to raise people with values that create a healthier,
>>>> more sustainable society.
>>> Riiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> If people don't want the right things (i.e. the things *you* think they
>>> should want) there's something wrong with *them*.[...]
>>>
>> Now we are making progress.
>
> We certainly are.
>
> You're a socialist, aren't you?
>
I am someone who has not swallowed the propaganda of the mainstream culture.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Bill Sornson]

Alan Baker wrote:

> If people don't want the right things (i.e. the things *you* think
> they should want) there's something wrong with *them*.

Lemme guess. You're arguing with a liberal.

:-D

 

[Zoot Katz]

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:56:28 GMT, Alan Baker <[email protected]>
is still an idiot:

>
>Driving isn't a privilege. It's a right; a right that comes with
>responsibilities.

A "right" can't be suspended, revoked or require passing a test. You
aren't required to renew, for a price, your rights every five years.
--
zk

 

[Alan Baker]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Alan Baker wrote:
> >>> In article <[email protected]>,
> >>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Alan Baker wrote:
> >>>>> [...]
> >>>>>> It only shows there no options other than sitting in endless traffic
> >>>>>> jams. Create the options, and you will see them come out of their
> >>>>>> cages.
> >>>>> The options have existed for years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's a clue: people don't want them.
> >>>>>
> >>>> The answer then is to raise people with values that create a healthier,
> >>>> more sustainable society.
> >>> Riiiiiiight.
> >>>
> >>> If people don't want the right things (i.e. the things *you* think they
> >>> should want) there's something wrong with *them*.[...]
> >>>
> >> Now we are making progress.
> >
> > We certainly are.
> >
> > You're a socialist, aren't you?
> >
> I am someone who has not swallowed the propaganda of the mainstream culture.

I notice you neatly avoided the question...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

 

[David White]

"Alan Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:alangbaker-D60556.23592123022008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Alan Baker wrote:
>> >>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> >>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>> >>>>> [...]
>> >>>>>> It only shows there no options other than sitting in endless
>> >>>>>> traffic
>> >>>>>> jams. Create the options, and you will see them come out of their
>> >>>>>> cages.
>> >>>>> The options have existed for years.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Here's a clue: people don't want them.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> The answer then is to raise people with values that create a
>> >>>> healthier,
>> >>>> more sustainable society.
>> >>> Riiiiiiight.
>> >>>
>> >>> If people don't want the right things (i.e. the things *you* think
>> >>> they
>> >>> should want) there's something wrong with *them*.[...]
>> >>>
>> >> Now we are making progress.
>> >
>> > We certainly are.
>> >
>> > You're a socialist, aren't you?
>> >
>> I am someone who has not swallowed the propaganda of the mainstream
>> culture.
>
> I notice you neatly avoided the question...

You already answered it for him.
>
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
> sit in the bottom of that cupboard."