rockbottom ripoff?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Ant, Apr 7, 2003.

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  1. Ant

    Ant Guest

    http://www.rockbottombikes.com/ click on 'bike maintenance' or 'bike info'

    looks to me like they ripped article after article off of sheldon's site, and i dont see any credit
    given. its all verbatim, with the pictures. what's their deal?

    i found them by mistake, and recognized the glossary as sheldon's. i emailed them about it, and
    although i got no reply, i cant find it on the site now. maybe they took the glossary off not
    realizing that everything else is non-original too. or maybe i just missed the glossary this time.

    did sheldon let them copy these articles?
     
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  2. ant wrote:
    > http://www.rockbottombikes.com/ click on 'bike maintenance' or 'bike info'
    >
    > looks to me like they ripped article after article off of sheldon's site, and i dont see any
    > credit given. its all verbatim, with the pictures. what's their deal?
    >
    > i found them by mistake, and recognized the glossary as sheldon's. i emailed them about it, and
    > although i got no reply, i cant find it on the site now. maybe they took the glossary off not
    > realizing that everything else is non-original too. or maybe i just missed the glossary this time.
    >
    > did sheldon let them copy these articles?

    Most assuredly not! Thanks very much for bringing this to my attention.

    I've emailed them requiring them to remove the stolen material. I didn't see the Glossary on their
    site, but there were several of my articles and photos there.

    Sheldon "http://captainbike.com" Brown +---------------------------------------------+
    | Do not needlessly endanger your lives | until I give you the signal. | --Dwight D. Eisenhower |
    +---------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  3. Bosaci

    Bosaci Guest

    "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > ant wrote:
    > > http://www.rockbottombikes.com/ click on 'bike maintenance' or 'bike info'
    > >
    > > looks to me like they ripped article after article off of sheldon's site, and i dont see any
    > > credit given. its all verbatim, with the pictures. what's their deal?
    > >
    > > i found them by mistake, and recognized the glossary as sheldon's. i emailed them about it,
    > > and although i got no reply, i cant find it on the site now. maybe they took the glossary off
    > > not realizing that everything else is non-original too. or maybe i just missed the glossary
    > > this time.
    > >
    > > did sheldon let them copy these articles?
    >
    > Most assuredly not! Thanks very much for bringing this to my attention.
    >
    > I've emailed them requiring them to remove the stolen material. I didn't see the Glossary on their
    > site, but there were several of my articles and photos there.

    It was copyrighted by Rockbottom, Wasup?
     
  4. bosaci wrote:
    > "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>ant wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://www.rockbottombikes.com/ click on 'bike maintenance' or 'bike info'
    >>>
    >>>looks to me like they ripped article after article off of sheldon's site, and i dont see any
    >>>credit given. its all verbatim, with the pictures. what's their deal?
    >>>
    >>>i found them by mistake, and recognized the glossary as sheldon's. i emailed them about it,
    >>>and although i got no reply, i cant find it on the site now. maybe they took the glossary off
    >>>not realizing that everything else is non-original too. or maybe i just missed the glossary
    >>>this time.
    >>>
    >>>did sheldon let them copy these articles?
    >>
    >>Most assuredly not! Thanks very much for bringing this to my attention.
    >>
    >>I've emailed them requiring them to remove the stolen material. I didn't see the Glossary on their
    >>site, but there were several of my articles and photos there.
    >
    >
    > It was copyrighted by Rockbottom, Wasup?

    The four articles I found on their site were copyrighted by me in 1996 and '97.

    http://sheldonbrown.com/gears.html http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
    http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html

    Sheldon "They're Mine" Brown +---------------------------------------------------------+
    | "Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, | it might be, and if it were so, it would
    | be; | but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" | --Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" |
    +---------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
    Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
    shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  5. Jim Edgar

    Jim Edgar Guest

    Sheldon Brown at [email protected]om wrote on 4/7/03 8:32 PM:
    > The four articles I found on their site were copyrighted by me in 1996 and '97.
    >
    > http://sheldonbrown.com/gears.html http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
    > http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
    > http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html

    ...suprising, they sound like a class operation:

    "This company was started by two nterpreneurs in 1999. From then it has gone from strength to
    strength. It is part of the large group called Rock International. The Rock International group has
    many company under in its portfolio, including Apnastyle.com - Selling Indian clothes,
    RockbottomBikes
    - Bikes specialist, Rockperfume - Specialising in high class perfume and also
    RockInternational.co.uk- Specialist in electrical goods.

    We sell most brand of bikes, we sell CBR bicycles, claud butler bicycles, British Eagle bicycles,
    Falcon bicycles, Ideal cycles, cross cycles,universal cycles and also electrical bicycles, if you
    cannot find what you want just contact us we find the right bike for you."
     
  6. Jim Edgar

    Jim Edgar Guest

    ...not to mention their liberal return policies:

    http://www.rockbottombikes.com/returnnrefund.asp

    "My product works fine but it just doesn't suit my needs so I'd like my money back.

    As exch good is specially ordered for you from the manufacturer and we do not keep stock of any
    bicycles there will be a 25% restocking fee. Our products do not come under the UK Distance Selling
    Regulations because each product specially ordered for you .But however, we regret that we cannot
    accept cancellations and return of products if the seal on the item has been broken or the item has
    been used or damaged. The consumer' s right to reject goods from the day the contract is made and
    ends on the expiry of 7 working days starting from the day after the goods have been received by the
    consumer."

    "I have been given an item as a gift, but do not want it. It has not been opened yet, can I
    return it?

    We will take the goods back as long as the goods have not been used and are in original condition,
    we will only refund 75% of the value of the priceUnfortunately we will normally refund back on to
    the original purchasing card."
     
  7. Jim Edgar

    Jim Edgar Guest

    ...more

    "How do I know whether you have a product in stock?

    We update our website daily to include only products which are currently in stock in our warehouses.
    But if a product is not in stock we will contact you immediately."

    ... but, wait, didn't they state that they order everything specifically for each order?
     
  8. Jim Edgar

    Jim Edgar Guest

    ...ok, last one:

    http://www.rockbottombikes.com/generalhelp.asp "What is the copyright on this Web site? No
    substantial part of the web site may be reproduced on or transmitted to or stored in any other web
    site or other electronic retrieval system.

    Reproduction of all or any substantial part of the Material in any form is prohibited except that
    individual users may print or save portions of the Material for their own personal use. This license
    does not permit users to incorporate the Material or any substantial part of it in any other work or
    publication, whether in hard copy or electronic or any other form. In particular (but without
    limitation) no substantial part of the Material may be distributed or copied for any commercial
    purpose. No substantial part of the web site may be reproduced on or transmitted to or stored in any
    other web site or other electronic retrieval system"."
     
  9. "bosaci" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > It was copyrighted by Rockbottom, Wasup?

    It was copyrighted by them the same way a kid steals another kid's toy train and says "It's mine."

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    *******************************************
     
  10. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    Obviously RockBottom deserves a few e-mails telling them that they've lost a lot of potential
    business due to their blatant ripoff of Sheldon as well as their usurious return policy. I'd
    certainly never do business with them!
     
  11. Fred

    Fred Guest

    They can't spell "accessories" either! And that on their home page. (Oh lord!) Whatever is the world
    coming to.

    "Benjamin Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Sheldon Brown wrote:
    >
    > > The four articles I found on their site were copyrighted by me in 1996 and '97.
    > >
    > > http://sheldonbrown.com/gears.html http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
    > > http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
    > > http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html
    > >
    > > Sheldon "They're Mine" Brown
    >
    > . . . right down to the spelling of "derailer".
    >
    > --
    > Benjamin Lewis
    >
    > Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Guest

    Sheldon, are you sure you didn't steal those articles from these guys? You've been a hero to us for
    all these years, and now it seems you've been web-mining this stuff. Crushed in Colorado (but not by
    an avalanche or anything like that)

    Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > ant wrote:
    > > http://www.rockbottombikes.com/ click on 'bike maintenance' or 'bike info'
    > >
    > > looks to me like they ripped article after article off of sheldon's site, and i dont see any
    > > credit given. its all verbatim, with the pictures. what's their deal?
    > >
    > > i found them by mistake, and recognized the glossary as sheldon's. i emailed them about it,
    > > and although i got no reply, i cant find it on the site now. maybe they took the glossary off
    > > not realizing that everything else is non-original too. or maybe i just missed the glossary
    > > this time.
    > >
    > > did sheldon let them copy these articles?
    >
    > Most assuredly not! Thanks very much for bringing this to my attention.
    >
    > I've emailed them requiring them to remove the stolen material. I didn't see the Glossary on their
    > site, but there were several of my articles and photos there.
    >
    > Sheldon "http://captainbike.com" Brown +---------------------------------------------+
    > | Do not needlessly endanger your lives | until I give you the signal. | --Dwight D.
    > | Eisenhower |
    > +---------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    > 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    > http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  13. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    [email protected] (Jon Isaacs) wrote:

    >>Sheldon, are you sure you didn't steal those articles from these guys? You've been a hero to us
    >>for all these years, and now it seems you've been web-mining this stuff. Crushed in Colorado (but
    >>not by an avalanche or anything like that)
    >
    >When making jokes like this it is important to include a smiley or a <g> so that everyone knows it
    >is a joke...
    >
    >Those pages came down fast though, those guys were quick getting their hand out of the cookie jar.

    Anybody have any idea how long they had those pages up?

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  14. Ant

    Ant Guest

    Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > Anybody have any idea how long they had those pages up?
    >

    At least a week- since when i first saw them. I'd make a guess that they havent been up that long,
    though. With Sheldon's material as wide-read and recognizable as it is, it seems like it would
    only take a few bike-savvy folk doing some internet research to uncover the 'similarities' between
    the pages.

    I found it off of google, searching for common bike maintenance keywords, and it spit out fairly
    high in google, all things considered.

    and yes- they were quick. when i found the site and noticed the sheldon-speak i emailed them first
    asking about their glossary (which was what i had been reading). when i didnt get an email back in a
    few days, i went back to the site to check-- gone. so i figured that was a good indicator that they
    were being lame, and sent the message to thte list.

    i thoguht the lamest thing of all was that in addition to copying the pictures and information, they
    also copied all of sheldon's witticisms, editorial comments, etc.

    maybe sheldon could threaten to sue for royalities. except- since they 'returned' the goods now, he
    would only charge a 25% restocking fee. ;)

    cheers
     
  15. Brian Lerner

    Brian Lerner Guest

    "ant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.rockbottombikes.com/ click on 'bike maintenance' or 'bike info'
    >
    > looks to me like they ripped article after article off of sheldon's site, and i dont see any
    > credit given. its all verbatim, with the pictures. what's their deal?
    >
    > i found them by mistake, and recognized the glossary as sheldon's. i emailed them about it, and
    > although i got no reply, i cant find it on the site now. maybe they took the glossary off not
    > realizing that everything else is non-original too. or maybe i just missed the glossary this time.
    >
    > did sheldon let them copy these articles?

    I was curious to see if any articles were still left up. Found one:
    http://www.rockbottombikes.com/typesofbicycles.asp which describes types of bicycles. Here's a
    quote, right below the small pics of different bikes:

    "As you may have guessed, the first thing to decide when choosing a bike is how your bike will be
    used. A commuter's needs are different from the needs of a mountain biker, a road racer or a family.
    REI has bikes made specifically for each category of riding. "

    Hmmmm... can't imagine where this one came from.
     
  16. Brian Lerner wrote:

    > I was curious to see if any articles were still left up. Found one:
    > http://www.rockbottombikes.com/typesofbicycles.asp which describes types of bicycles. Here's a
    > quote, right below the small pics of different bikes:
    >
    > "As you may have guessed, the first thing to decide when choosing a bike is how your bike will be
    > used. A commuter's needs are different from the needs of a mountain biker, a road racer or a
    > family. REI has bikes made specifically for each category of riding. "
    >
    > Hmmmm... can't imagine where this one came from.

    I have no idea. It seems it was flagrantly stolen by REI, though:

    http://www.rei.com/rei/learn/detail.jsp?URL=/rei/learn/cycle/howbikef.jsp&ls=Cycling

    Shameful.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent. -- Walt Kelly
     
  17. Benjamin Lewis wrote:

    > Brian Lerner wrote:
    >
    >> I was curious to see if any articles were still left up. Found one:
    >> http://www.rockbottombikes.com/typesofbicycles.asp which describes types of bicycles. Here's a
    >> quote, right below the small pics of different bikes:
    >>
    >> "As you may have guessed, the first thing to decide when choosing a bike is how your bike will be
    >> used. A commuter's needs are different from the needs of a mountain biker, a road racer or a
    >> family. REI has bikes made specifically for each category of riding. "
    >>
    >> Hmmmm... can't imagine where this one came from.
    >
    > I have no idea. It seems it was flagrantly stolen by REI, though:
    >
    > http://www.rei.com/rei/learn/detail.jsp?URL=/rei/learn/cycle/howbikef.jsp&ls=Cycling
    >
    > Shameful.

    "The sports authority" stole some of it too (the part after "Some Extra infromations"):

    http://www.thesportsauthority.com/info/index.jsp?categoryId=222837&backTo=713103

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent. -- Walt Kelly
     
  18. Brian Lerner wrote:

    > I was curious to see if any articles were still left up.

    I'm starting to wonder if anything on the site is original at all. Compare the "Which bike right for
    u" section at

    http://www.rockbottombikes.com/whichbike.asp

    To this one:

    http://www.bicyclenet.co.uk/whichbike.htm

    And their "Assembly Instructions" seem to be mostly copied from Shimano instruction sheets,
    e.g. compare

    http://www.rockbottombikes.com/frontdrivesystem.asp

    with

    http://www.sportex.se/vaxelsystem/Shimano_Tourney_20.pdf

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent. -- Walt Kelly
     
  19. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Benjamin Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > Sheldon Brown wrote:
    >
    > > The four articles I found on their site were copyrighted
    by me in 1996
    > > and '97.
    > >
    > > http://sheldonbrown.com/gears.html http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
    > > http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
    > > http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html
    > >
    > > Sheldon "They're Mine" Brown
    >
    > . . . right down to the spelling of "derailer".

    I've stolen that too -- but that's all, I swear!

    My favorite attitude/approach toward dealing with web thievery is that of web sage Phillip
    Greenspun. He puts offenders in his copyright hall of shame:

    http://philip.greenspun.com/copyright/hall-of-shame.html

    Even better is his explanation of why this works. Scroll down toward the bottom, to the heading, "My
    personal approach to copyright"

    http://philip.greenspun.com/panda/images

    Enjoy!

    Matt O.
     
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