Shimano 105 11 Speed Is Here! Do You Care?

[new_rider]

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/03/31/shimanos-all-new-11-speed-105-5800-group-plus-new-mechanical-hydraulic-road-disc-brakes/

http://road.cc/content/news/115191-shimano-105-goes-11-speed

Eleven speed has trickled down to 105! As is the case most every year, 105 is refined and has a few new features borrowed from more expensive shiimano groups.

The chain is supposed to wear longer, the brakes are supposed to stop a bit better, and allow for wider tires as well.

I've read rumors that some new bikes will be available this summer with 105 11 speed.

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Do you think the 11th gear is an important factor for new bike buyers, as opposed to 10 speed? The 3 cassette offerings are: 11 - 28, 12 - 25 and 11 - 32.

Let's get your thoughts on the new 105. I think it will be a nicer group, but I'm wondering if it's nice enough to wait for instead of getting a new bike now. Hmmm...

 

[Colnago62]

Can current 105 10 spd. run a 32 rear cog? If not, that might be a big draw for some.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Colnago62

Can current 105 10 spd. run a 32 rear cog? If not, that might be a big draw for some.

FYI. The 10-speed, Shimano 105 rear derailleur CAN accommodate a 32t Cog ...

• depending on the drop which the rear derailleur hanger has, the B-screw may need to be adjusted ...
• here is minimal drop rear derailleur hanger (designed for obsolete, vertical parallelogram derailleurs) + a 105 rear derailleur with an XTR Cassette whose largest cog has 34t ...

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• in addition to adjusting the B-screw to adjust the cant of the paralleogram (as pictured), I happened to change the upper pulley wheel a 10t ...

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With a slightly longer (aka "normal") derailleur hanger, the upper pulley wheel may not need to be changed to accommodate a 32t Cog (however, the B-screw will probably need to be adjusted ... but, maybe not!?!) ...

Of course, a "long" cage rear derailleur is probably necessary to accommodate the additional chain needed to wrap around the larger Cog.

 

[AyeYo]

Yes, it's a big deal and I care. Just look at the gear spacing.

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28
12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32


vs. the 10 speed

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27


You can now have the flexible 11-28 cassette, but without the large jumps on the big cogs. The close ratio 12-25 is now actually close ratio where you need it with an 18T stuffed in there. The 11-32 is also a good offering for someone in very hilly area because they can get the climbing power of the 32T without sacrificing the downhill speed of the 11T, AND maintain reasonable ratios inbetween.

However, I'm annoyed they still aren't offering the combo I'd like to see, which is 11-27(or 28), spaced 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27(or 28) or possibly even 16-17-18-19-22-24-27. I guess I'll have to order up a bunch of cassettes on sale and assemble that one myself. IMO, the 16 gear is important for moderate speed group rides, but I refuse to drop to a 25T climbing gear and sacrifice all that cadence. Big gear changes in the three largest gears aren't a big deal, but the missing 16 and 18 are noticable. I'm pretty ready for 12-speed so I can have the 16 and the 18 in that dream cassette AND close spacing in the top three gears. I run 12-27 now, which has me running out of gear past 40mph.

 

[dhk2]

Don't care in the slightest. I run an old-school triple, DA 7700 9 speed. 53/39/30 on front with 12-27 cassette gives me the wide range I want with minimal shifting. Having 11 cogs just means more gears to click through and more expensive chains and cassettes.

 

[jpr95]

Originally Posted by AyeYo
Yes, it's a big deal and I care. Just look at the gear spacing.

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28
12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32


vs. the 10 speed

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27


You can now have the flexible 11-28 cassette, but without the large jumps on the big cogs. The close ratio 12-25 is now actually close ratio where you need it with an 18T stuffed in there. The 11-32 is also a good offering for someone in very hilly area because they can get the climbing power of the 32T without sacrificing the downhill speed of the 11T, AND maintain reasonable ratios inbetween.

However, I'm annoyed they still aren't offering the combo I'd like to see, which is 11-27(or 28), spaced 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27(or 28) or possibly even 16-17-18-19-22-24-27. I guess I'll have to order up a bunch of cassettes on sale and assemble that one myself. IMO, the 16 gear is important for moderate speed group rides, but I refuse to drop to a 25T climbing gear and sacrifice all that cadence. Big gear changes in the three largest gears aren't a big deal, but the missing 16 and 18 are noticable. I'm pretty ready for 12-speed so I can have the 16 and the 18 in that dream cassette AND close spacing in the top three gears. I run 12-27 now, which has me running out of gear past 40mph.

I'm kind of with you on this. I have an Ultegra triple with the 10-sp 11-28. 21-24-28 is fine (and those are all riveted together as a group), but I would like at least the 16 in there, and perhaps the 18 on occasion. I've resigned myself to the idea that I'll just have to order a 12-23 cassette and cobble together something. Or get in better shape so that I don't need the 28, but when I'm on a week-long tour, there are a few hills in southern Indiana that cause me to use my 30-28 combo after a few days and my legs are starting to turn to jelly.

 

[new_rider]

I wish 105 came with a triple: 52/40/28 would be amazing. A 52 would allow me to drop the 11t and start with a 12t, and choose either a 25t or 28t as my low gear for the tightest spacing, yet preserving a very low bailout gear. I wouldn't have to shift much either, as the 40t would be ideal for slightly rolling but most flat terrain.

I could probably build it myself, but then the hoods would be mismatched in shape and feel and I doubt I'd like that very much.

 

[AyeYo]

Yea I hear you. People can mock my granny gearing all they want, but I regularly do rides with 15-20% grades and I'm plenty strong enough to grind out 34x25 at 40rpm, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to blow out a knee in the process. More reasonable gearing like 34x27+ lets me keep a reasonable cadence that maintains knee happiness and avoids injuries. Honeslty, when I'm on a big hill I miss my original 12-30 cassette. Those tall low gear combos are fine if you're racing and blasting up every hill, but for endurance riding where you don't want to hammer huge hills out of the saddle at 15mph, the really short gearing is nice. Shimano needs to start just selling individual sprokets so people can customize to their riding style and the topography of their area.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by AyeYo
Yea I hear you. People can mock my granny gearing all they want, but I regularly do rides with 15-20% grades and I'm plenty strong enough to grind out 34x25 at 40rpm, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to blow out a knee in the process. More reasonable gearing like 34x27+ lets me keep a reasonable cadence that maintains knee happiness and avoids injuries. Honeslty, when I'm on a big hill I miss my original 12-30 cassette. Those tall low gear combos are fine if you're racing and blasting up every hill, but for endurance riding where you don't want to hammer huge hills out of the saddle at 15mph, the really short gearing is nice. Shimano needs to start just selling individual sprokets so people can customize to their riding style and the topography of their area.

MICHE sells "individual sprockets."

 

[Froze]

I could care the least! I have a 10 speed, I can't imagine another useless gear squished between the already more than needed gears. It doesn't matter if you have a 5 speed or an 11 speed, the first and last sprocket are still all the same choices they had for 50 years or more, it's just the number of gears between those two gears that have doubled allowing a person to stay at a certain RPM level easier, but an 11th gear isn't going to make that any easier, it just means people will be more shift crazy than before.

 

[mpre53]

Yes, it's a big deal and I care.  Just look at the gear spacing. [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32[/COLOR] vs. the 10 speed [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25[/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851] [/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851]12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25[/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851] [/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851]12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]You can now have the flexible 11-28 cassette, but without the large jumps on the big cogs.  The close ratio 12-25 is now actually close ratio where you need it with an 18T stuffed in there.  The 11-32 is also a good offering for someone in very hilly area because they can get the climbing power of the 32T without sacrificing the downhill speed of the 11T, AND maintain reasonable ratios inbetween.[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]However, I'm annoyed they still aren't offering the combo I'd like to see, which is 11-27(or 28), spaced 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27(or 28) or possibly even 16-17-18-19-22-24-27. I guess I'll have to order up a bunch of cassettes on sale and assemble that one myself.  IMO, the 16 gear is important for moderate speed group rides, but I refuse to drop to a 25T climbing gear and sacrifice all that cadence.  Big gear changes in the three largest gears aren't a big deal, but the missing 16 and 18 are noticable.  I'm pretty ready for 12-speed so I can have the 16 and the 18 in that dream cassette AND close spacing in the top three gears.  I run 12-27 now, which has me running out of gear past 40mph.[/COLOR] [/quoted rather have the 18

Yes, it's a big deal and I care.  Just look at the gear spacing. [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32[/COLOR] vs. the 10 speed [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25[/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851] [/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851]12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25[/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851] [/COLOR][COLOR=2F3851]12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]You can now have the flexible 11-28 cassette, but without the large jumps on the big cogs.  The close ratio 12-25 is now actually close ratio where you need it with an 18T stuffed in there.  The 11-32 is also a good offering for someone in very hilly area because they can get the climbing power of the 32T without sacrificing the downhill speed of the 11T, AND maintain reasonable ratios inbetween.[/COLOR] [COLOR=2F3851]However, I'm annoyed they still aren't offering the combo I'd like to see, which is 11-27(or 28), spaced 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27(or 28) or possibly even 16-17-18-19-22-24-27. I guess I'll have to order up a bunch of cassettes on sale and assemble that one myself.  IMO, the 16 gear is important for moderate speed group rides, but I refuse to drop to a 25T climbing gear and sacrifice all that cadence.  Big gear changes in the three largest gears aren't a big deal, but the missing 16 and 18 are noticable.  I'm pretty ready for 12-speed so I can have the 16 and the 18 in that dream cassette AND close spacing in the top three gears.  I run 12-27 now, which has me running out of gear past 40mph.[/COLOR]

I'd rather have the 18 on the 12-25 than the 28 on the 11-28.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by mpre53


I'd rather have the 18 on the 12-25 than the 28 on the 11-28.

Which is exactly the reason I like 11spd. Pretty much the only reason, but enough of a reason for me. It's odd to me that folks even give a **** about the wants/needs of other riders.

 

[new_rider]

http://blog.performancebike.com/2013/10/25/our-take-10-speed-vs-11-speed/

Interesting Q and A from a performance bike employee comparing 10 and 11 speed. He seems strongly supportive of 11 speed, noting smoother shifting without any hit to durability or reliability:



I’ve been riding both 11-speed Campagnolo and 10-speed SRAM for several years now, and I switch between the two often enough to be able to tell you there are some definite differences between 10- and 11-speed drivetrains. Generally, adding an extra cog means you have more gear ratios to choose from which can make your riding more efficient...
Is 11-speed less durable?
Answer: There’s not really much difference...I haven’t ridden the new Shimano stuff, but I’ve read that their new PTFE chain technology actually makes the chains stronger than their 10-speed chains.
Isn’t the shifting compromised?
Answer: If anything the 11-speed shifting feels smoother and crisper than 10-speed...
Is it worth it?
Answer: In my experience, I love having the extra 11th gear. And yes, I definitely do notice that it’s not there when I switch back to a 10-speed bike. The biggest benefit to me is that the shifting is smoother and more progressive, since there are fewer big jumps in cog size. I don’t have to keep two different cassettes around anymore...
Why upgrade? Won’t they just go to 12-speeds soon?
Answer: ...I believe that road bikes would need to adopt the MTB standard 135mm rear spacing, and I don’t see that happening any time soon. But then, nobody really saw disc brakes for the road coming either...

 

[AndrewCulture]

11? I'm still on 9!

I always think I don't care about having a narrow range, at least until I go up north where they have real hills. Then I suffer

 

[Froze]

a 12 speed in the future? Perhaps, but I think they'll probably go to a CVT type of system instead, or perhaps after a 12 speed is introduced? I don't know, but sooner or later CVT will become the standard.

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by AndrewCulture
11? I'm still on 9!

I always think I don't care about having a narrow range, at least until I go up north where they have real hills. Then I suffer

I use to race and train in the mountains of California for 30 years and all I ever had at the most was a 7! funny thing is, none of us cried for more gears. The other funny thing is that with all of our extra gears and aerodynamics and lighter weight bikes and components and high technology training and nutrients, the average speed of the TDF is only up by 1.3 mph since 1963 while the total miles in that same time period has decreased by around 400 miles and the rate of ascent has been reduced, so the real reason for the average speed increase it due to lessor miles and less inclines! I actually think we went backwards if you take all of that into consideration which means the riders aren't as strong as they use to be. OUCH, that should cause an uproar. I would love to see a TDF race using the identical course of the 1963 race and see what the end result would be. I also think the course shouldn't change either, there is no way to compare who is the best rider over the last 100 years because the course is constantly changing from one year to the next.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Quote by Froze:
"so the real reason for the average speed increase it due to lessor miles and less inclines! "

Possibly.

Dope and better road surfaces certainly have played significant roles also.

As for not wanting more ratios? I disagree. We ALWAYS wanted more gears...lower low with the same closeness of ratios. We went to 6-speeds with joy and 7-speeds were heaven sent as we aged into the masters ranks. When 10-speeds hit I raced to get my new Campy groups and was first in line for the new 11-speed rigs.

When Campy delivers a 12-speed I will be all over that and slip my currently missing 18 back in the line.

 

[oldbobcat]

Quote: As for not wanting more ratios? I disagree. We ALWAYS wanted more gears...lower low with the same closeness of ratios. We went to 6-speeds with joy and 7-speeds were heaven sent as we aged into the masters ranks. When 10-speeds hit I raced to get my new Campy groups and was first in line for the new 11-speed rigs.


While overall speeds have not increased significantly, climbing speeds have. Being able to maintain cadence on climbs has been a boon to racer and duffer alike.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Quote by OBC:
"Being able to maintain cadence on climbs has been a boon to racer and duffer alike."

I'm beyond the ability of gearing to help.

I need EPO and lots of it!

 

[Colnago62]

When it is time to buy a new bike or groupo, I am definitely going 11 speed. Right now I am heavily invested in 10 speed in terms of wheels (10 speed Zipps) and don't believe adding an extra gear will be worth losing the aero advantage of those wheels. The range in which my legs are comfortable pedaling is pretty wide. So while I do notice a gap, it doesn't bother me.