The relationship of 5 min power to FT

[objective]

I'm under the impression that there is a relationship between 5 min power and FT such that one can make predictions about ones possbile FT ceiling? Is this true and can someone help me understand this?

My FT is, well, underwhelming and I'm trying to determine whether or not I should expect to improve in this area given the proper does of 2X20s. Is there reason to be hopeful?

Duration | W/kg
----------------
5 sec | 18.23
1 min | 7.79
5 min | 4.72
FT | 3.23 measured average or 3.6 NP

 

[Woofer]

I'm under the impression that there is a relationship between 5 min power and FT such that one can make predictions about ones possbile FT ceiling? Is this true and can someone help me understand this?

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t307235.html

 

[WarrenG]

I'm under the impression that there is a relationship between 5 min power and FT such that one can make predictions about ones possbile FT ceiling? Is this true and can someone help me understand this?

My FT is, well, underwhelming and I'm trying to determine whether or not I should expect to improve in this area given the proper does of 2X20s. Is there reason to be hopeful?

Duration | W/kg
----------------
5 sec | 18.23
1 min | 7.79
5 min | 4.72
FT | 3.23 measured average or 3.6 NP

If those numbers are accurate you can just stick to doing the kilo as your main event.

 

[Woofer]

If those numbers are accurate you can just stick to doing the kilo as your main event.

If this is who I think it is, Rob E., he has never done a kilo, officially. I'm just surprised my FTP and five minute powers are close to his, considering his far superior palmares in road races and in crits. I think he could give you a run for a money whenever he upgrades to 3 on the road.

 

[objective]

If this is who I think it is, Rob E., he has never done a kilo, officially. I'm just surprised my FTP and five minute powers are close to his, considering his far superior palmares in road races and in crits. I think he could give you a run for a money whenever he upgrades to 3 on the road.

You're correct. I've never done the kilo *and* you've discovered my secret identity. ;-)

Oh, and thanks for the pointer to Andy's comments on this subject. That's exactly what I was after.

 

[Krazyderek]

If those numbers are accurate you can just stick to doing the kilo as your main event.

What's a kilo?

I don't think there's really a relationship of 5min to FTP, i always thought of 5min power as "breakaway" power, being right on the edge of what someone can maintain anaerobically and FTP is well.... aerobically sustainable for an hour or more.

 

[WarrenG]

I'm just surprised my FTP and five minute powers are close to his, considering his far superior palmares in road races and in crits.

In this case, too much importance ascribed to watts/kg compared to absolute watts...

 

[objective]

In this case, too much importance ascribed to watts/kg compared to absolute watts...

Interesting. I think I see where you are headed but not sure. Are you suggesting that w/k may not be the best metric to use for predicting/explaining the result of a flat crit?

 

[Woofer]

w/k may not be the best metric to use for predicting/explaining the result of a flat crit?

I use much sillier tactics, that explains everything.

But you did a lot better than me at Wente RR, in slightly diff categories but the lead riders were probably doing the same work, which makes it seem odd that your 5 and FTP are a bit lower than mine. I got dropped by about ten seconds by the finish line at Wente on the first lap, was working to chase on the descent and dropped the chain and wasted a minute getting it back on and that was it for me.

What are you doing to raise FTP?

 

[WarrenG]

Interesting. I think I see where you are headed but not sure. Are you suggesting that w/k may not be the best metric to use for predicting/explaining the result of a flat crit?

Yes. Drafting overcomes most of the weight and size differences until the key moments, and then aerodynamics matter more than weight.

 

[acoggan]

If those numbers are accurate you can just stick to doing the kilo as your main event.

Wait a sec...I thought you disputed my statement that performance in events such as the 500 m and kilo is heavily influenced by your neuromuscular power?

 

[acoggan]

In this case, too much importance ascribed to watts/kg compared to absolute watts...

We've been over this ground before: absolute power doesn't mean jacksh*t when it's generated by guys who are so big that they punch Mack-truck sized holes in the air...

 

[objective]

I use much sillier tactics, that explains everything.

But you did a lot better than me at Wente RR, in slightly diff categories but the lead riders were probably doing the same work, which makes it seem odd that your 5 and FTP are a bit lower than mine. I got dropped by about ten seconds by the finish line at Wente on the first lap, was working to chase on the descent and dropped the chain and wasted a minute getting it back on and that was it for me.

What are you doing to raise FTP?

Believe it or not, at Wente the climbers failed to take advantage of the climb. Can you believe that? I'm doing Pescadero this weekend and I'm sure to get spanked.

As for FTP development, I just started a 2nd round of 2 X 20 @ L4. The first round was in Feb/March and consistend of about 10 sessions.

I'm also thinking that I need to lose ~12-17 lbs. I was down to 150 over the winter and I'm currently at 162. A goal of mine has been to reach 145 and keep the same wattage numbers. Not sure its possible, or safe for that matter...

 

[workingguy]

Believe it or not, at Wente the climbers failed to take advantage of the climb. Can you believe that? I'm doing Pescadero this weekend and I'm sure to get spanked.

As for FTP development, I just started a 2nd round of 2 X 20 @ L4. The first round was in Feb/March and consistend of about 10 sessions.

I'm also thinking that I need to lose ~12-17 lbs. I was down to 150 over the winter and I'm currently at 162. A goal of mine has been to reach 145 and keep the same wattage numbers. Not sure its possible, or safe for that matter...

I am consistently around 140-142. Early in the season, I tried to drop to 130 but only made it to 134 before feeling a loss of power.

From the posts on this forum, I'm figuring FTP is my main weakness, although I need to raise the numbers across the board.

I started my first 2x20 session today, 10 min rest in between. Same gear, cadence 88-92. I guessed at my FTP to be 230. The second interval was mentally tough to hold it above 220. In the last couple of minutes I could bump it up to 240 or 250. So maybe my ftp estimate of 230 is too low?
First interval at 229 AP and second at 231 AP. The legs did burn quite a bit and breathing was very labored. I tried to keep it controlled with deep breaths.

 

[WarrenG]

Wait a sec...I thought you disputed my statement that performance in events such as the 500 m and kilo is heavily influenced by your neuromuscular power?

Uh, I know that neuromuscular power is an important part of a 500, and also, to a lesser extent the kilo. He says he has 18w/kg.

 

[WarrenG]

We've been over this ground before: absolute power doesn't mean jacksh*t when it's generated by guys who are so big that they punch Mack-truck sized holes in the air...

I have not seen any Mack trucks in my (bike) races.

 

[acoggan]

I have not seen any Mack trucks in my (bike) races.

No, but guys who are, oh, 6'6" and ~200 lbs have to punch a MUCH larger hole in the air than guys who are "only" 6'0" and <150 lbs. Yet, you would have people believe that absolute power is better indicator of performance ability than power per unit mass, which correlates with power per unit CdA...

 

[acoggan]

Uh, I know that neuromuscular power is an important part of a 500, and also, to a lesser extent the kilo.

You have previously disputed this point.

 

[WarrenG]

No, but guys who are, oh, 6'6" and ~200 lbs have to punch a MUCH larger hole in the air than guys who are "only" 6'0" and <150 lbs. Yet, you would have people believe that absolute power is better indicator of performance ability than power per unit mass, which correlates with power per unit CdA...

Once again, you have mis-stated and/or mis-characterized my opinion on this subject.

To be near equal on time for such events, as the difference in size increases so must the difference in absolute power.

 

[WarrenG]

You have previously disputed this point.

Once again, you have mis-stated and/or mis-characterized my opinion on this subject.

A decent start is important, moreso for the 500 than the kilo, but I've seen many riders win or lose the race in the last third or so of the event.