Tifosi CK7 Questions



Pete Biggs wrote:
> Mark Thompson wrote:
>>> This rub is more likely the result of the BB spindle flexing than
>>> the frame. Especially if it happens (as it usually does) on the
>>> right downstroke and not the left.
>>
>> Is that a sign of a cheap BB spindle, or do they all flex a
>> significant amount?
>
> Shouldn't normally be enough to worry about, but it's not uncommon for
> even good frames/spindles/cranks/spiders to flex enough to cause
> rubbing if the mech is adjusted with hardly any clearance. I don't
> think it's a particularly good way to judge stiffness.
>
> You could casually test total stiffness by standing besides bike
> (facing the side of bike) and forcing flex via the pedal.

No. What you really need is a properly calibrated jig and a complicated
system of weights and pulleys, computers, and other stuff.
 
Jon Senior wrote:
> Simonb wrote:
>> No. What you really need is a properly calibrated jig and a
>> complicated system of weights and pulleys, computers, and other
>> stuff.

<snip>

> As I was in France at the time, I bought a cycling magazine to test my
> French and discovered that said magazine carried out the same tests
> as a part of every bike review.

Really? Sounds better than the reviews in Cycling Weekly (ie, it 'feels
nice' and 'looks good').

I thought Chris Boardman's review of the Look 585 in Procycling was good,
but only because it was Chris Boardman.
 
Simonb wrote:
> No. What you really need is a properly calibrated jig and a complicated
> system of weights and pulleys, computers, and other stuff.

Around this time last year, C+ made a big thing about using such
technology to test the stiffness of a few different frames to compare
materials.

As I was in France at the time, I bought a cycling magazine to test my
French and discovered that said magazine carried out the same tests as a
part of every bike review.

Funny old world.

Jon
 
Mark Thompson wrote:

>>This rub is more likely the result of the BB spindle flexing than the
>>frame. Especially if it happens (as it usually does) on the right
>>downstroke and not the left.
>
>
> Is that a sign of a cheap BB spindle, or do they all flex a significant
> amount?


I suspect that for a given design and material (eg steel square taper)
they are all much the same. ISIS/octalink are stiffer, titanium bendier.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
 
Simonb wrote:
> Really? Sounds better than the reviews in Cycling Weekly (ie, it 'feels
> nice' and 'looks good').

If your French is reasonable, it's (imaginatively) called "Le Cycle".
The issue I bought has in depth reviews of bikes and components, a
round-up of 27 high-end road machines, tips for road racing, a guide to
cycle-touring, routes, news and other features. It seems very
road-specific, but is a better read than C+ (IMO). I'd consider a
subscription if I hadn't come to the conclusion that DFs are not so
interesting. ;-)

Jon
 
"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark Thompson wrote:
> > Find a straight bit of road, look down at BB, accelerate like mad.
>
> ...locate parked vehicle.
>
> I've seen this done (Or rather, I heard the tale and saw the aftermath).
> I wouldn't recommend it.
>
> How about; Find a straight bit of road, get mate to ride behind and look
> at your BB, accelerate like mad.
>
> Jon

.. . . in which case of course he wouldn't see me for dust (I wish).

The cranks and BB I use are Ultegra. What I'm most confused about now is how
there might be so much flex in the frame between two relatively close parts
of it ie the BB and the part of the downtube where the front mech attaches.
If there's enough flex between those points to (possibly) cause chain rub,
the top of the frame must be moving all over the place.

Tom.
 
Tom Orr wrote:
> . . . in which case of course he wouldn't see me for dust (I wish).
>
> The cranks and BB I use are Ultegra. What I'm most confused about now is how
> there might be so much flex in the frame between two relatively close parts
> of it ie the BB and the part of the downtube where the front mech attaches.
> If there's enough flex between those points to (possibly) cause chain rub,
> the top of the frame must be moving all over the place.

The flex is far more likely to be in the cranks / spider / bottom
bracket. Given that this point is where the force is concentrated, and
given how fine the tolerances are on front mech adjustment, it doesn't
take much movement to make it rub.

The simplest solution to this type of flexing (Other than removing the
front mech!) is to learn to spin more! :)

Jon
 
Jon Senior wrote:

<snipped>
>
> The simplest solution to this type of flexing (Other than removing the
> front mech!) is to learn to spin more! :)
>
> Jon

Would that I could spin more in top, flat out with or without my head down
and a friend following checking out my bottom bracket!

Tom.
 
Tom Orr wrote:
> "Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Mark Thompson wrote:
>>
>>>Find a straight bit of road, look down at BB, accelerate like mad.
>>
>>...locate parked vehicle.
>>
>>I've seen this done (Or rather, I heard the tale and saw the aftermath).
>>I wouldn't recommend it.
>>
>>How about; Find a straight bit of road, get mate to ride behind and look
>>at your BB, accelerate like mad.
>>
>>Jon
>
>
> . . . in which case of course he wouldn't see me for dust (I wish).
>
> The cranks and BB I use are Ultegra. What I'm most confused about now is how
> there might be so much flex in the frame between two relatively close parts
> of it ie the BB and the part of the downtube where the front mech attaches.
> If there's enough flex between those points to (possibly) cause chain rub,
> the top of the frame must be moving all over the place.

Flex in the chainstays? My 653 frame flexes sufficiently that when I get
off the saddle on a hill, the rims hit the brake blocks.

...d
 
"Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> Gearing wise, I'd go for 30/40/50 triple 175mm cranks and a 12-25 or
> 13-26 block.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with your gearing recommendation. I'd
seen the Centaur 30/40/50 and was disappointed that it wasn't
available in Veloce and so wouldn't be supplied as original equipment
on the Tifosi. I hoped that maybe I'd missed something.
 
"Pete Biggs" <pwrinkledgrape{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message

> Veloce triple chainset is always supplied with 30-42-52, but it's
> reasonable to sell the rings* and replace them (with Campag or TA) if you
> like. I suggest 28/40/50 or 26/39/50 if you want lower gears. Ideally
> the middle ring should be a pinned middle-specific version but double
> inner rings do work(albeit with slower shifting). Get 175mm cranks.
>
> 10sp cassettes: 12-23, 12-25, 13-26, 13-29, 14-23.
>
Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry I didn't word the second question
clearly enough. I meant what are the cassette and chainring sizes of
the drivetrain delivered with the Tifosi, rather than what are
available in Veloce. Also, the references to Campagnolo "sizes" and
Sheldon's site were a clumsy attempt to say that I haven't been able
find out the number of teeth on each sprocket of the cassettes. It's
fairly easy to find the ranges but there doesn't appear to be a
resource, like Sheldon's for Shimano, that lists the sprocket size
combinations of available cassettes. I can only guess that the 12-25
and 13-26 cassettes are similar to Shimano - single tooth difference
up to 19 and then 2 or 3 tooth difference up to the largest.

I'd say the best setup I can hope for the Tifosi is 52/42/30 with a
13-26 cassette. If supplied with 12-25 I'd get the LBS to change it.
Thanks for the suggestions. However, I don't need lower low gears, if
you see what I mean. It was the higher end of the gearing which
concerned me.
 
Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Uhhhhmmmm... Campagnolo?
>
> <URL:http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=4&cid=all>

Thanks for the link; I've already been there. How am I supposed to
read the "Uhhhhmmmm... Campagnolo?" part of your reply? Did you
intend to insult me by suggesting I can't make the connection between
the name and the Web site? Did you intend to mock me because you
believe I'm not sufficiently competent with search engines to find the
site? Or maybe it was just a cheap attempt at comedy and it hadn't
occurred to you that the reply may be read in these ways.
Unfortunately the comic device of restating the topic word with
"Uhhmm", ellipsis marks, and "thinks" or "now let me see" is hackneyed
and tedious. It's the sort of "witty banter" you hear from Clarkson
and his tiresome colleagues on Top Gear.
 
Micheal Ra wrote:
> You really are an irritating prat. I'll waste no more time on you.

Man, did you ever get of the wrong side of bed today? If your question
had been worded perfectly so that there was no ambiguity then you'd
probably have cause for complaint. As it was, it appeared that you were
asking what the range was... information that is easily obtained from
Campag's website.

Sleep well, and I hope your hangover has gone by tomorrow! ;-)

Jon
 
Jon Senior wrote:
> Tom Orr wrote:
>> . . . in which case of course he wouldn't see me for dust (I wish).
>>
>> The cranks and BB I use are Ultegra. What I'm most confused about
>> now is how there might be so much flex in the frame between two
>> relatively close parts of it ie the BB and the part of the downtube
>> where the front mech attaches. If there's enough flex between those
>> points to (possibly) cause chain rub, the top of the frame must be
>> moving all over the place.
>
> The flex is far more likely to be in the cranks / spider / bottom
> bracket. Given that this point is where the force is concentrated, and
> given how fine the tolerances are on front mech adjustment, it doesn't
> take much movement to make it rub.

What Jon said. I have 105 on the Speedmachine and Ultegra on the Trice and
Baron. On all three, pushing hard can cause the crank to flex enough that
it makes contact with the chainring guard.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)
 
in message <[email protected]>, Micheal Ra
('[email protected]') wrote:

> "Pete Biggs" <pwrinkledgrape{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
>
>> Veloce triple chainset is always supplied with 30-42-52, but it's
>> reasonable to sell the rings* and replace them (with Campag or TA) if
>> you
>> like. I suggest 28/40/50 or 26/39/50 if you want lower gears.
>> Ideally the middle ring should be a pinned middle-specific version
>> but double
>> inner rings do work(albeit with slower shifting). Get 175mm cranks.
>>
>> 10sp cassettes: 12-23, 12-25, 13-26, 13-29, 14-23.
>>
> Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry I didn't word the second question
> clearly enough. I meant what are the cassette and chainring sizes of
> the drivetrain delivered with the Tifosi, rather than what are
> available in Veloce.

I posted the answer to this, and you responded with rudeness.

> Also, the references to Campagnolo "sizes" and
> Sheldon's site were a clumsy attempt to say that I haven't been able
> find out the number of teeth on each sprocket of the cassettes.

I posted the answer to this, too.

> I'd say the best setup I can hope for the Tifosi is 52/42/30 with a
> 13-26 cassette.

Then that's what you specify when you order it.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...
 
in message <[email protected]>, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> ('') wrote:

> Tom Orr wrote:
>> . . . in which case of course he wouldn't see me for dust (I wish).
>>
>> The cranks and BB I use are Ultegra. What I'm most confused about now
>> is how there might be so much flex in the frame between two
>> relatively close parts of it ie the BB and the part of the downtube
>> where the front mech attaches. If there's enough flex between those
>> points to (possibly) cause chain rub, the top of the frame must be
>> moving all over the place.
>
> The flex is far more likely to be in the cranks / spider / bottom
> bracket. Given that this point is where the force is concentrated, and
> given how fine the tolerances are on front mech adjustment, it doesn't
> take much movement to make it rub.

Campag front mechs - at least the better ones - have a little
replaceable PTFE insert which can safely and silently be allowed to
ride on the outer side of the chain. This is good on bikes with flexy
cranksets, because as Jon says the flex on a flexy chainset can easily
exceed the tolerance.

This is why my Raleigh, with its utterly **** chainset, sports a
Campagnolo Record front mech... in theory it is going to get the
Centaur chainset when I get a carbon chainset for the Dolan. In
practice, this hasn't happened yet.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When all else fails, read the distractions.
 
Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:

: Campag front mechs - at least the better ones - have a little

s/better ones/10 speed ones/;

The plastic bit was introduced with the first 10 speed mechs. Since
the mechs are now 9/10 speed independant they all have it, but I'm
not convinced it makes any difference myself.

FWIW one my two bikes I have one centaur mech (pending my buying the
campag compact front mech whenever it's easy to get) complete with
plastic bit, which works fine. On the other bit I'm running a
Shimano sora (ie cheap) front mech on a Campag Chorus 9 speed
setup. That also works fine.

Front mechs are pretty simple things really.


Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness
 
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