Times article re: urban cycling and heart disease



Chris Malcolm wrote:
> Edinburgh University eh? Must see if I can't find that research and
> send an email!

Dr (cager) Newby is available via the Edinburgh uni website for email
discussions. Ill be asking him a couple of questions later.
 
Tony W wrote:

> So what about pedestrians and car drivers? Surely they are also exposed.


I suppose cyclists will breathe deeper - not that I'm defending
the article.

> Perhaps we should move cars away from people -- they do seem quite
> dangerous!!


:)

--
jc

Remove the -not from email
 
MartinM wrote:

> Hmm; I watched a Panorama about something similar a few years ago, CO
> levels were higher in a car driver than in an un-masked cyclist over
> the same distance; but diesel particulates are more likely to get into
> lungs in the open air I suppose.


I am fairly sure PM10s have been measured at higher levels in car
cabins but cannot find a citation

best wishes
james
 
Jeremy Collins wrote:
> Tony W wrote:
>
>> So what about pedestrians and car drivers? Surely they are also exposed.

>
>
> I suppose cyclists will breathe deeper - not that I'm defending
> the article.
>


Cyclists breathe 2-3 times more air but most studies show they are
exposed to 3-4 times less pollution, so overall cyclists are still
better off than motorists.


--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon
 
[email protected] wrote:
> MartinM wrote:
>
>
>>Hmm; I watched a Panorama about something similar a few years ago, CO
>>levels were higher in a car driver than in an un-masked cyclist over
>>the same distance; but diesel particulates are more likely to get into
>>lungs in the open air I suppose.

>
>
> I am fairly sure PM10s have been measured at higher levels in car
> cabins but cannot find a citation
>


Try http://snipurl.com/h4jz


--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon
 
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 02:35:28 -0700, [email protected] wrote:


> I am fairly sure PM10s have been measured at higher levels in car cabins
> but cannot find a citation


Here is a paper on PM2.5 particles:
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11712603&query_hl=2>

"In the fixed-route study, the cyclists had the lowest exposure levels,
bus and car were slightly higher, while mean exposure levels on the
London Underground rail system were 3-8 times higher than the surface
transport modes."


Mike
 
Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
|
| Jeremy Collins wrote:
| > Tony W wrote:
| >
| >> So what about pedestrians and car drivers? Surely they are also exposed.
| >
| >
| > I suppose cyclists will breathe deeper - not that I'm defending
| > the article.
| >
|
| Cyclists breathe 2-3 times more air but most studies show they are
| exposed to 3-4 times less pollution, so overall cyclists are still
| better off than motorists.

And those of us who merely trundle are presumably breathing like
pedestrians and are a lot better off than drivers.

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph
 
Tony Raven wrote:


> Try http://snipurl.com/h4jz



Hmm; interesting stuff; so what of these pollen filters which I always
get ripped off for at car service time? presumably pollen is bigger
than PM10's?
 
Patrick Herring wrote:
> Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
> |
> | Cyclists breathe 2-3 times more air but most studies show they are
> | exposed to 3-4 times less pollution, so overall cyclists are still
> | better off than motorists.
>
> And those of us who merely trundle are presumably breathing like
> pedestrians and are a lot better off than drivers.
>


Although for the same journey distance you will be exposed for much longer.


--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon
 
Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
|
| Patrick Herring wrote:
| > Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
| > |
| > | Cyclists breathe 2-3 times more air but most studies show they are
| > | exposed to 3-4 times less pollution, so overall cyclists are still
| > | better off than motorists.
| >
| > And those of us who merely trundle are presumably breathing like
| > pedestrians and are a lot better off than drivers.
|
| Although for the same journey distance you will be exposed for much longer.

But not in e.g. central London where even trundle cycling is quicker
than driving.

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph
 
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:01:57 +0100, Phil Cook
<[email protected]> wrote:


>>>And what about walking on city streets or sitting in a bus or car? Do
>>>you suppose....

>>
>>Who? Me? I just reported it, thinking it might be of interest here.

>
>That was a rhetorical plural you, so it wasn't aimed at your good self
>in particular.


Oh: that's ok then...

<fx: puts cosh away for now>

:)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk
 
Received a brief reply from David Newby...

> You are absolutely right. It perhaps will not surprise you to learn that
> "The Sunday Times" took a sentence or two out of context. They removed all
> the comments about higher pollution in cars, etc. They did not use any of
> our comments on particle traps, etc.
> Our sponsors were the British Heart Foundation who certainly would not
> influence what we said. Indeed, we and they would be keen to keep people
> cycling as much as possible.
> The trouble when dealing with journalists!


So once again it looks like the OIL-CENTRIC press were making sure that the
research was *on message* for the papers corporate sponsors - maybe.
 
"stupot" <***@nospamwowo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Received a brief reply from David Newby...
>
> > You are absolutely right. It perhaps will not surprise you to learn that
> > "The Sunday Times" took a sentence or two out of context. They removed
> > all
> > the comments about higher pollution in cars, etc. They did not use any
> > of
> > our comments on particle traps, etc.
> > Our sponsors were the British Heart Foundation who certainly would not
> > influence what we said. Indeed, we and they would be keen to keep people
> > cycling as much as possible.
> > The trouble when dealing with journalists!

>
> So once again it looks like the OIL-CENTRIC press were making sure that
> the
> research was *on message* for the papers corporate sponsors - maybe.


Damage done :-( I was at a CTC meet this morning and there was mention of
said article and how they will not be cycling in traffic again... Even
though I pointed out the areas of contention with the study and how past
studies show cyclists actually better off and how this one hasn't been
peer-reviewed etc., etc., I'm a realtivce young whippersnapper, so what do I
know compared to The Times :-(

Cheers, helen s
 
stupot wrote:
> Received a brief reply from David Newby...
>
> > You are absolutely right. It perhaps will not surprise you to learn that
> > "The Sunday Times" took a sentence or two out of context. They

> removed all
> > the comments about higher pollution in cars, etc. They did not use

> any of
> > our comments on particle traps, etc.
> > Our sponsors were the British Heart Foundation who certainly would not
> > influence what we said. Indeed, we and they would be keen to keep people
> > cycling as much as possible.
> > The trouble when dealing with journalists!

>
> So once again it looks like the OIL-CENTRIC press were making sure that the
> research was *on message* for the papers corporate sponsors - maybe.


Or more likely, what I wrote a couple of days ago:

> ... and just got picked up by some
> weasel journo with a chip on the shoulder about some smug and healthy
> cycling coworker ... or some such scenario.


Since you're corresponding with the original author, maybe it would
be worthwhile to suggest he himself write to the newspaper in question
and demand a right of reply. Get together with someone who is good
at dealing with fobbing-off tricks (possibly from the BHF), and get
shirty about being misrepresented if the paper wants to argue.

--
Nick Kew
 
Patrick Herring wrote:
> Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
> |
> | Jeremy Collins wrote:
> | > Tony W wrote:
> | >
> | >> So what about pedestrians and car drivers? Surely they are also exposed.
> | >
> | >
> | > I suppose cyclists will breathe deeper - not that I'm defending
> | > the article.
> | >
> |
> | Cyclists breathe 2-3 times more air but most studies show they are
> | exposed to 3-4 times less pollution, so overall cyclists are still
> | better off than motorists.
>
> And those of us who merely trundle are presumably breathing like
> pedestrians and are a lot better off than drivers.


If cycling at a speed such that you are breathing as a ped,
you will be going faster, which means your exposure will be
lower, so you will be better off than pedestrians too.

It's pedestrians that should be corralled away from the roads
rather than cyclists.