"FasterthanUR" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:FasterthanUR-
> >
> > At least "FastBoy" has the decency to keep his insults to a person's
bike or
> > riding ability.
>
> Buck, All this stuff has gotten a bit old and out of hand. I'm starting to get bored with the role
> of Fastboy in these threads.
I'm glad to see that you are ready to have a discussion in a civil manner. You will find that the
vast majority of the posters around here like to discuss the issues, debunk the myths and have a
good-hearted exhange of ideas. As I relayed to you via private e-mail, Fabrizio is the one poseur
around here who typifies the posters over in rec.bicycles.racing. Take whatever he writes with a big
grain of salt. Get a good laugh out of it and move on.
> Too bad we just can't discuss the pros and cons of aerodynamics on both the bent and DF platform
> with no biases. There are plusses and minus no matter what the frame design is. I know that you
> ride in terrain that requires a lot of versatility and what you are currently riding is the best
> for the area you are in. Personally, I have no problems with what you are riding as it keep you in
> shape and enjoying the experience.
Now this is the kind of discussion that we are most interested in! There are several 'bents I
would like to try out on a long-term basis when my budget (and space) constraints ease up a bit.
I've had my eye on a Greenspeed trike, but can't justify the expense if I can't use it on my daily
commute. As it is now, I rotate through four different bikes, all of which handle the commute
well. Two are road, two are mountain. One of the mountain bikes is full suspension, but once was
my everyday commuter with slicks, my weekend trail bomber with knobbies. The second has become a
rainy-day bike with full theft deterrence (rusty paint scratches), full fenders, a rear rack, and
mounts for lights.
I would "need" two bents if I were to try them out - a weekday commuter and a weekend racer. Not for
racing, mind you, but I like going fast for the thrill. Whether or not it would be faster is part
and parcel to the discussion, but being just a few inches off the ground is certain to make the
perceived speeds much higher.
> The bents that Ed and I ride are European imports that were designed for racing and also to be
> ridden on the street. The average bike shop will not have any knowledge about our bikes. The fact
> is the Europeans have been designing recumbents for many many years now and have advanced the
> efficiency of the design to a higher level than what is being produced regarding production bents
> in the US. There is only one builder in the US at this point in time producing a speed specific
> lowracer as opposed to the European recumbent builders. Most of the bents sold in the US are used
> for touring and not racing.
I've seen a number of the websites, but admit to seeing very few in person. I do have a
'bent-specific shop nearby, so I have access to a large number of 'bents and even have ridden most
of their stock. But comfort is their thing, so lowracers aren't in their business plan.
> The common impression most roadies have is that bents are slow, can't climb, etc.. and not all of
> that is true. What they are witnessing is most likely a rider on a 35+ lb. touring bent
While I can agree that most people's experience is with a limited range of 'bents, I still wonder
about the physiology of climbing while on a 'bent. There is just something unnatural about the foot
position relative to the body when going uphill on a 'bent. This is where people like Jon and I
start throwing science at the question. We would test the climbing ability through a series of
all-out efforts up a nice big hill and time the runs. I'd also like to physiological data during the
rides. I'm guessing that blood pressure would be higher while climbing on the 'bent because of the
body position. I would also bet that their respiration and heart rates would be lower. Since you
have a 'bent (and probably a diamond frame too), you could run these tests yourself and get back to
us with the results. Heck, I'm sure that we would be satisfied with a few well-timed sprints up your
favorite hill switching back and forth between bikes between each run.
> The amount of riders in the US that own and ride racing bents is quite small so the exposure is
> very limited. The guys that are riding race specific bents are very fast. We hear the same old
> rehashed digs like fat old guys ride bents, those things are not real bikes and all the other ****
> constantly being posted on bike forums.
I'm sure that there is plenty being dished out to you, but the only way to gain respect around here
is to post some hard data, not use slash and burn tactics with the other posters. I have to admit,
before this post, you were just about to be "plonked" into my killfile. If you want to get some
folks here excited about trying out a lowracer, then show us the data. We have a large number of
people in here that own a garage full of bikes and I'm sure a zippy little lowracer would find a
good home among them if you can convince us that they are worth the big bundle of cash!
> If you guys who own DFs would just accept the fact that there are performance oriented bents that
> are as fast and sometimes faster than diamond frames, that performance bents can climb
> efficiently and are also safe on the road then we would probably get along better and the acid
> posts would vanish.
No one here argues that lowracers are faster on the flats and downhill. Many of us have experienced
this first hand as one passed us by. But most of us know being passed is no big deal, since
experience has shown us that we will catch and pass that guy on the next big hill. It's just our
experience. Safety and climbing efficiency are oft-discussed around here. Personally, I think some
'bents would make safe commuting machines. But it depends on where they are ridden and what 'bent we
are talking about. Being lower than the passenger window cannot be a good thing.
> Bents are a different platform than DF's. Some of us bent riders are using fairings to benefit
> efficiency and there are other bent riders who build their own custom bikes for racing and those
> are extremely low to the ground and other's are fully faired.
>
> If this thread ever becomes civil I'll be glad to share a lot of info with you and whoever else is
> interested. But if I have to continually listen to my pal Fab and others with their degrading
> opinions regarding speed specific performance bents and bents in general then no one here will
> learn anything regarding efficiency or speed when riding.
Provide us with some objective information and you will find that we will share as well. If you are
willing to carry out some experiments with your machine, the data will be well-received. If you
aren't comfortable with setting up an objective experiment, we will be glad to make suggestions.
Post some results along with your opinion about why you think they came out that way and you will
garner a lot of respect here!
> Shall we continue this discussion Buck?
I'm willing as are others. Let's see what we can all learn from each other.
-Buck
P.S., If you have a name that we could address other than "FastBoy," that might help with the
civility. We all respect anonymity if you want to stay that way, but the name you have chosen
can put readers on the defensive. Sort of like Fabrizio does to you. Many post with their real
names, some post with their first names and a few remain anonymous.