What we know now after start of Paris-Nice

[alan_atwood]

Well, after 4 days of racing in France, it is crystal clear that Pat
McQuaid has zero control over bicycle racing, which is kind of lacking
considering he's the head of the international governing body. In
light of this, the following should take place in order to begin to
fix this mess:

1) Pat McQuaid must resign IMMEDIATELY. He has zero credibility now
and must leave the UCI and the sport with no possible return to any
position within the sport.

2) One McQuaid is gone, dissolve the ProTour immediately. Re-estabish
the former 3-level trade team system, with the former ProTour teams
being TT1's, the former Professional Continental teams being TT2's,
and the Contiental teams being TT3's.

3) Remove ALL UCI criteria for race selection and leave them up to the
promoters. If the UCI can't enforce ProTour rules, how the heck are
they going to stop other promoters from inviting who they want.

4) All UCI licensed riders should be able to join the rider's union,
which will represent the riders and make sure there is balance between
the needs of promoters and the needs of riders.

I'm sure there are lots of intelligent people, even in this forum, who
can fix the mess that Pat McQuaid has created. Hope someone is able
to come to the forefront to do what's best for cycling so that it's
doesn't rot into the night to be gone forever.

Alan

 

[Bill C]

On Mar 14, 11:16 am, alan_atwood <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well, after 4 days of racing in France, it is crystal clear that Pat
> McQuaid has zero control over bicycle racing, which is kind of lacking
> considering he's the head of the international governing body.  In
> light of this, the following should take place in order to begin to
> fix this mess:
>
> 1)  Pat McQuaid must resign IMMEDIATELY.  He has zero credibility now
> and must leave the UCI and the sport with no possible return to any
> position within the sport.
>
> 2) One McQuaid is gone, dissolve the ProTour immediately.  Re-estabish
> the former 3-level trade team system, with the former ProTour teams
> being TT1's, the former Professional Continental teams being TT2's,
> and the Contiental teams being TT3's.
>
> 3) Remove ALL UCI criteria for race selection and leave them up to the
> promoters.  If the UCI can't enforce ProTour rules, how the heck are
> they going to stop other promoters from inviting who they want.
>
> 4) All UCI licensed riders should be able to join the rider's union,
> which will represent the riders and make sure there is balance between
> the needs of promoters and the needs of riders.
>
> I'm sure there are lots of intelligent people, even in this forum, who
> can fix the mess that Pat McQuaid has created.  Hope someone is able
> to come to the forefront to do what's best for cycling so that it's
> doesn't rot into the night to be gone forever.
>
> Alan

Hey Alan
Even Bill B can't do EVERYTHING though he comes damned close. Good
starting points. I'd add that the riders union needs to be totally
seperate from the teams too.
Bill C

 

[Geraard Spergen]

alan_atwood wrote:
> Well, after 4 days of racing in France, it is crystal clear that Pat
> McQuaid has zero control over bicycle racing, which is kind of lacking
> considering he's the head of the international governing body. In
> light of this, the following should take place in order to begin to
> fix this mess:
>
> 1) Pat McQuaid must resign IMMEDIATELY. He has zero credibility now
> and must leave the UCI and the sport with no possible return to any
> position within the sport.
>
> 2) One McQuaid is gone, dissolve the ProTour immediately. Re-estabish
> the former 3-level trade team system, with the former ProTour teams
> being TT1's, the former Professional Continental teams being TT2's,
> and the Contiental teams being TT3's.
>
> 3) Remove ALL UCI criteria for race selection and leave them up to the
> promoters. If the UCI can't enforce ProTour rules, how the heck are
> they going to stop other promoters from inviting who they want.
>
> 4) All UCI licensed riders should be able to join the rider's union,
> which will represent the riders and make sure there is balance between
> the needs of promoters and the needs of riders.
>
> I'm sure there are lots of intelligent people, even in this forum, who
> can fix the mess that Pat McQuaid has created. Hope someone is able
> to come to the forefront to do what's best for cycling so that it's
> doesn't rot into the night to be gone forever.
>
> Alan

Pro Tour is a good idea but badly implemented. There should only be
about 10 PT teams and they must be invited (not required to show) to all
PT races. That leaves plenty of room for the organizers to fill in with
whoever they like, and it gives sponsors some assurance that they'll see
some payback.

Organizers could still ban individuals under investigation, but not PT
teams.

And UCI should be sucking up to race organizers to make them want to be
part of PT.

No objection to PMcQ resigning.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"alan_atwood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:b45c4fb4-76d2-4053-afdb-fee29767e9bc@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> Well, after 4 days of racing in France, it is crystal clear that Pat
> McQuaid has zero control over bicycle racing, which is kind of lacking
> considering he's the head of the international governing body. In
> light of this, the following should take place in order to begin to
> fix this mess:
>
> 1) Pat McQuaid must resign IMMEDIATELY. He has zero credibility now
> and must leave the UCI and the sport with no possible return to any
> position within the sport.

Personally I think you're full of it. For one thing the people following the
Paris-Nice are now a small percentage of those who followed it last year.

> 2) One McQuaid is gone, dissolve the ProTour immediately. Re-estabish
> the former 3-level trade team system, with the former ProTour teams
> being TT1's, the former Professional Continental teams being TT2's,
> and the Contiental teams being TT3's.

In other words put different names on what's already there. My, aren't you
the smart one.

> 3) Remove ALL UCI criteria for race selection and leave them up to the
> promoters. If the UCI can't enforce ProTour rules, how the heck are
> they going to stop other promoters from inviting who they want.

We all are really trusting of the promoters. After all, they're really
people who are supportive of the riders.

> 4) All UCI licensed riders should be able to join the rider's union,
> which will represent the riders and make sure there is balance between
> the needs of promoters and the needs of riders.

In case you missed it the rider's union has done exactly NOTHING.

> I'm sure there are lots of intelligent people, even in this forum, who
> can fix the mess that Pat McQuaid has created. Hope someone is able
> to come to the forefront to do what's best for cycling so that it's
> doesn't rot into the night to be gone forever.

McQuaid has made a lot of errors. But McQuaid is improving and he's
beginning to see how not to make such errors in the future. Leave it to a
complete and utter fool to suppose that anyone could come in blind and be
able to succeed where the odds are so far against him.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Geraard Spergen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> alan_atwood wrote:
>> Well, after 4 days of racing in France, it is crystal clear that Pat
>> McQuaid has zero control over bicycle racing, which is kind of lacking
>> considering he's the head of the international governing body. In
>> light of this, the following should take place in order to begin to
>> fix this mess:
>>
>> 1) Pat McQuaid must resign IMMEDIATELY. He has zero credibility now
>> and must leave the UCI and the sport with no possible return to any
>> position within the sport.
>>
>> 2) One McQuaid is gone, dissolve the ProTour immediately. Re-estabish
>> the former 3-level trade team system, with the former ProTour teams
>> being TT1's, the former Professional Continental teams being TT2's,
>> and the Contiental teams being TT3's.
>>
>> 3) Remove ALL UCI criteria for race selection and leave them up to the
>> promoters. If the UCI can't enforce ProTour rules, how the heck are
>> they going to stop other promoters from inviting who they want.
>>
>> 4) All UCI licensed riders should be able to join the rider's union,
>> which will represent the riders and make sure there is balance between
>> the needs of promoters and the needs of riders.
>>
>> I'm sure there are lots of intelligent people, even in this forum, who
>> can fix the mess that Pat McQuaid has created. Hope someone is able
>> to come to the forefront to do what's best for cycling so that it's
>> doesn't rot into the night to be gone forever.
>
> Pro Tour is a good idea but badly implemented. There should only be about
> 10 PT teams and they must be invited (not required to show) to all PT
> races. That leaves plenty of room for the organizers to fill in with
> whoever they like, and it gives sponsors some assurance that they'll see
> some payback.
>
> Organizers could still ban individuals under investigation, but not PT
> teams.
>
> And UCI should be sucking up to race organizers to make them want to be
> part of PT.
>
> No objection to PMcQ resigning.

While I think you're much closer to the point I suggest that anyone that
believes that they could have done any better than McQuaid (remember this is
what he got when he took over) is kidding himself.

 

[Donald Munro]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Personally I think you're full of it. For one thing the people following
> the Paris-Nice are now a small percentage of those who followed it last
> year.

Citation please.

 

[Bill C]

On Mar 14, 2:30 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "alan_atwood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:b45c4fb4-76d2-4053-afdb-fee29767e9bc@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Well, after 4 days of racing in France, it is crystal clear that Pat
> > McQuaid has zero control over bicycle racing, which is kind of lacking
> > considering he's the head of the international governing body.  In
> > light of this, the following should take place in order to begin to
> > fix this mess:
>
> > 1)  Pat McQuaid must resign IMMEDIATELY.  He has zero credibility now
> > and must leave the UCI and the sport with no possible return to any
> > position within the sport.
>
> Personally I think you're full of it. For one thing the people following the
> Paris-Nice are now a small percentage of those who followed it last year.
>
> > 2) One McQuaid is gone, dissolve the ProTour immediately.  Re-estabish
> > the former 3-level trade team system, with the former ProTour teams
> > being TT1's, the former Professional Continental teams being TT2's,
> > and the Contiental teams being TT3's.
>
> In other words put different names on what's already there. My, aren't you
> the smart one.
>
> > 3) Remove ALL UCI criteria for race selection and leave them up to the
> > promoters.  If the UCI can't enforce ProTour rules, how the heck are
> > they going to stop other promoters from inviting who they want.
>
> We all are really trusting of the promoters. After all, they're really
> people who are supportive of the riders.
>
> > 4) All UCI licensed riders should be able to join the rider's union,
> > which will represent the riders and make sure there is balance between
> > the needs of promoters and the needs of riders.
>
> In case you missed it the rider's union has done exactly NOTHING.
>
> > I'm sure there are lots of intelligent people, even in this forum, who
> > can fix the mess that Pat McQuaid has created.  Hope someone is able
> > to come to the forefront to do what's best for cycling so that it's
> > doesn't rot into the night to be gone forever.
>
> McQuaid has made a lot of errors. But McQuaid is improving and he's
> beginning to see how not to make such errors in the future. Leave it to a
> complete and utter fool to suppose that anyone could come in blind and be
> able to succeed where the odds are so far against him.

Hey Tom, McQuaid may be improving, though I don't see it. He was stuck
in a no win situation. You can't make chicken soup from chicken ****
and that's what he inherited.
Alan's a lot more reasonable, and patient than me. he also knows a
hell of a lot more about racing than most since he does a hell of a
lot more for the sport than a sane person would. (sorta joking Alan,
but we're all a bit nuts ;-))
Besides promoting, organizing, officiating, reporting on, and
advocating for cycling, racing in general, his own races, and Cross
races he is always there to help. He's one of the people who makes New
England go, along with Bill Black, Wade Somers, Adam and others. He's
a real resource when you need to know something.
He offered up some ideas and opinions for debate, isn't that what
we're supposed to do here? What're your suggestions. I think I've got
a pretty good idea, but don't remember seeing them together anywhere.
We've gotta start somewhere, and Alan seems to be suggesting that we
go back to a modified form of the last version that, mostly, worked.
Decent place to start the debate IMO. By putting more of it on the
promoters you grow the sport, as long as it's balanced by a real
riders union.
Never seen a governing body make everyone happy, seen some implode
but none decided to destroy their athletes as part of the power play.
McQuaid's calling the riders victims is rich since he's been one of
the huge victimizers.
Anyway I'm just saying that Alan is well worth having a discussion
with.
Bill C

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Bill C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:63ead086-1dd8-453e-bf84-afb6f2278a6e@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> He offered up some ideas and opinions for debate, isn't that what
> we're supposed to do here?

If that's what he's doing I appologize for being insulting instead of
conversational. But the fact remains that the riders definitely need a UCI
and for reasons beyond reason McQuaid is being made the target here instead
of cycling in general.

Look, it isn't the UCI's fault that riders dope. What's more, it is
extremely difficult for the UCI to try to solve the doping problem and
maintain a smooth fascade that allows the sport to look good and yet push
the promoters to improve conditions for the top end pros.

I think that the promoters are important, but while the Tour de France and
the Giro D'Italia are extremely important races they can be replaced with
American races and we all know that. There simply isn't anything in those
races that can't be more than duplicated here if necessary. And if those
promoters are willing to tear cycling apart instead of promote professional
cycling then perhaps they've outlived their usefulness to the sport.

Let's be clear about this - France is hardly a cycling nation any longer.
Let's remember that Hinault was the last French winner over 20 years ago. If
the French want to pretend that this is because everyone else is doping and
they aren't that's their privilege but we know better than that.

Drugs must be defeated in all sports because it misrepresents the human
condition which is what racing is supposed to test. But we must defeat drugs
completely on the up and up and not by what appears to be a frame job on
Floyd. We're seeing the same sort of thing with DeLuca - no "proof" so they
use suspicion instead. With management like that perhaps it's time to move
on to some other sport. Certainly we can start paying a lot more attention
to our local USA races than those foreign substitutes.

 

[Keith]

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:36:56 +0200, Donald Munro
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Kunich wrote:
>> Personally I think you're full of it. For one thing the people following
>> the Paris-Nice are now a small percentage of those who followed it last
>> year.
>
>Citation please.

Don't bother, Kunich is the master of baseless claims, you have to
wonder why he bothers, someone break his computer.

 

[[email protected]]

On Mar 14, 8:16 am, alan_atwood <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 1) Pat McQuaid must resign IMMEDIATELY. He has zero credibility now
> and must leave the UCI and the sport with no possible return to any
> position within the sport.
>

Thoughtful post, but premature.
He hasn't suspended the riders yet.
He may still win.

 

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Mar 14, 3:01 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> Look, it isn't the UCI's fault that riders dope. What's more, it is
> extremely difficult for the UCI to try to solve the doping problem and
> maintain a smooth fascade that allows the sport to look good




Moron -


That's a crock.

The NFL does it. FIFA does it.

Those leagues are simply smarter than the UCI. They don't let WADA
drag them around by the nose.

The truth is: the UCI is run by relative amateurs. They, like you
(someone who thinks McQuaid is the gold standard), are not very smart.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

 

[Michael Baldwin]

Alan Atwood wrote;

>I'm sure there are lots of intelligent people, even in
>this forum, who can fix the mess that Pat McQuaid
>has created. Hope someone is able to come to the
>forefront to do what's best for cycling so that it's
>doesn't rot into the night to be gone forever.

Respectfully Alan, while thoughtful, your suggestions are treating
symptoms.
The root cause of the degenerating professional athlete, regardless
the sport, is the IOC.
I'm not so naive to think every _amateur_ Olympian was clean & pure
prior to the IOC's decision to allow _professional_ athletes to compete
in the Olympic Games.
However even the casual observer can see the connection between the
current day problems associated with professional sports management and
the IOC's landmark blunder.
I've happen upon a few traffic accidents in my day, and not once have
I heard those attending to the victims scream "Is there a Civil or
Design Engineer in the crowd?"
I know in blaming the IOC, I too am shouting "after the fact". But
I'd like to change the mindset from treating symptoms to administrating
prevention.
I offer the following as a supporting argument. Of all the
_professional_ cycling disciplines, _CycloCross_ is the discipline least
(if at all) tainted by recent scandal. I hope CycloCross _NEVER_
becomes an Olympic Sport.

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> Look, it isn't the UCI's fault that riders dope. What's more, it is
> extremely difficult for the UCI to try to solve the doping problem and
> maintain a smooth fascade that allows the sport to look good and yet push
> the promoters to improve conditions for the top end pros.

The problem is the UCI _attempting_ to eradicate doping.
They ought to be doing what every sane governing body
in sports is doing: back peddling furiously while
talking a good game, and behind the scenes dealing to
get the heat turned off, the way FICA does it.

--
Michael Press