"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
news:
[email protected]...
> Re: Abortion
Just Re: Abortion? When I have waxed eloquent and imparted immortal words of
wisdom to all and sundry? Have you no shame?
> HHS and Dolan: Lets get some thing straight.
>
> 1. You feel that abortion is that taking of an already existing human
> life. You feel it is the moral equivilant of murder. I am certain that if
> I felt the way you do I would feel the same amount of outrage that you do.
> So we can begin with a point of agreement, specifically that murder is
> morally wrong and we both are outraged by it. There are no social issues
> or impact that justify murder.
>
> Don't accuse me of things I didn't say. Because I point out the social
> issues does not mean that I would condone abortion if I believed it was
> murder. I wouldn't.
The social issues, whatever they are, are not worth considering when
confronted with the reality of taking innocent human lives.
> Just so that we have a two way point of agreement, lets also agree that if
> it could somehow be demonstrated to your satisfaction that abortion was
> not infact the taking of human life then it wouldn't be repugnant to you.
> I'm not saying that I or anyone else can do this and I promise not to even
> try. I'm just saying that we have a point of agreement at the idea that
> murder is wrong.
>
> The key difference in our opinion is not that I condone murder and you
> don't. It is that I don't believe abortion is murder and you do. If you
> are going to attempt to change my opinion or the opinion of people who
> think like I do then it would probably be best not to lump us together
> with practitioners of genocide or clubbers of baby seals, etc.
You cannot persuade anyone that abortion is not the taking of innocent human
life (murder). Abortion has been with us for a long time now and it is a
more divisive issue that it has ever been. Abortion is not just another
subject to be discussed rationally. It is like the subject of slavery just
prior to the Civil War. You have chosen your side and I have chose my side.
I would be willing to have another civil war over this issue because I
believe it goes to the heart of what a humane and good society is all about.
Like all liberals, you have blinders on and you do not use words the way
they should be used. You are into euphemisms and nonsense talk. There is no
disagreement about what an unborn child is and what it is that you do to
that unborn child when you abort it. You do it because you value the
convenience of individuals more than you do any God given right to life. The
religionists are right on this issue and the liberal secularists are a
horror and an abomination. You are only a step away from the likes of ******
and Stalin and other mass murderers.
> 2. Given how you feel, you should continue to advocate for your position
> and attempt to get the laws of this country changed. That is what I would
> do if I felt the way you do.
>
> But you must also admit that as obvious as you feel your position is, it
> is not the only position on the issue. At this point it is not the
> majority position although the opinion is pretty evenly divided. I
> wouldn't say that either side has a clear mandate of public opinion. Don't
> bother to show me your statitics and surveys because I can find ones done
> by people who feel the way I do that are the mirror image.
We do not need liberal judges to tell us what to think about an issue such
as abortion. The damn liberal judges are making the laws, not our elected
representatives. That is going to change shortly thanks to President Bush
and no thanks to a moral cretin like former President Clinton.
Public opinion has been subject to liberal media bias on this issue from the
beginning. Opinions can be easily change from pro to con if and when the
facts are presented truthfully, something the liberal media is incapable of
doing.
> 3. Social Issues.
>
> It is all well and good to say that people should abstain from sex to
> prevent pregnancy. The problem is that they don't. You can advocate it all
> you want but it is never going to be an effective birth control method.
> Not because it wouldn't work but because you won't get enough people to
> practice it.
>
> It is also important to recognize that abortion will always be available
> to the wealthy. It always has been. Weather you like it or not you are
> really trying to legislate its availability to those who couldn't afford
> it otherwise. You can't completely divorce class from the issue.
Who cares if a few rich people want to abort (kill) their own children for
the sake of their convenience. I do not want all of society imitating such
swinish behavior. Until fairly recently, the moral middle classes have
always had a superior morality to the immoral wealthy. I would like to keep
it that way. The very rich and the very poor have always behaved like swine.
What else is new? We need to only concern ourselves with the middle classes,
which is about 90% of all of society.
> Note to Ed:
>
> I know you don't like this style of posting. You've made that clear. If
> all you are capable of is insulting me becuase you don't like my posting
> style then you don't get to discuss an issue of great importance to you.
> Do you really care about my posting style at a level equal to how you feel
> about abortion? I would think that the abortion issue trumps here.
Nothing trumps posting style! It is the one and only thing that counts in
the grand scheme of things. You ought to be thrown up against a wall and
executed forthwith. Top posters are deserving of the lowest levels of Hell.
Read your Dante if you would like to know where you are destined to go for
your posting transgressions.
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
