Armstong dopes AGAIN

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by Chris_E, Aug 22, 2005.

  1. Chris_E

    Chris_E New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never been an Armstong fan. Never liked the guy or his methods, personally i think he's doped throughout his career.

    But for God's sake let it go guys.

    This article appeared in the latest addition of L'Equipe, sorry about the online translation.

    As far as i am concerned this is unnecessary and vindictive. Anyone who's anyone in the cycling world has made up their mind about this one way or another.

    Page 1

    http://translate.google.com/transla...quipe.fr/&prev=/search?q=l%27equipe&hl=en&lr=

    Page 2 Cyclingnews.com take on the story

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/aug05/aug23news2
     
    Tags:


  2. scotty72

    scotty72 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Geez,

    The French are making up doping allegations about Armstrong.

    How original !

    If the frogs actually put as much effort into cycling as they do into their vindictive, slimey, grubby slurs then a Frenchman might actually win a tour before hell actually does freeze over.

    Scotty
     
  3. cash player

    cash player New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    well said well said
     
  4. bobke

    bobke New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    1
    Agree with above posts. You'd think they would go back and test Pantani's. What they don't say or explain is how he kept getting better and better from 1999 through 2001 after the EPO test came out. They just can't stand it. And of course Lance has no way of refuting it, it just smears him without any recourse. They identified twelve positives according to l'Equipe, but of course named only Lance's not the other alleged positives.
    Way to go L'Equipe.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/aug05/aug23news2
     
  5. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,402
    Likes Received:
    0
  6. Chris_E

    Chris_E New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0

    Of course there is a more important legal point to be made.

    If Armstrong decides to sue for libel, the burden of proof in a civil court changes from guilty beyond a resonable doubt to guilty within a reasonable possabilty.

    If the tests are proven to be acurate, regardless of his protests, there is a strong possability that Armstrong could lose this case and his reputation in the process.

    Personally i wouldn't touch this with a barge pole.
     
  7. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    What a sad day for cycling......... I'm sorry but if you read below it proves like any other athlete who tested positive that he is guilty....he won’t face the sanctions but it has put a black mark on all his Tour wins now.... the others will be named in due course but Armstrong is the biggest name…..


    Tour champion under the microscope again

    Did Armstrong and six others use EPO in 1999?

    Although he has now retired from cycling, accusations of doping continue to pursue seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong. According to French newspaper L'Equipe, proof was produced today that Armstrong used the banned substance EPO to achieve his first victory in the race in 1999. Armstrong has already denied the claims, saying, "I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance enhancing drugs."

    The allegations came about when L'Equipe journalists compared the urinary sample numbers of the 1999 anti-doping controls with the - unnamed - results of extensive retrospective testing by French Laboratoire national de dépistage du dopage de Châtenay-Malabry (LNDD), which were communicated to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) today. The journalists identified Lance Armstrong's samples by finding the sample numbers on the 1999 doping control reports, which are available at various institutions at the French cycling federation as well as the International Cycling Union (UCI).

    The collaboration between the French Ministry of Sports and WADA was aimed at validating the EPO testing method, which has recently come under fire for false positives. One part of the research involved proofing the EPO test against a sample group which had possibly used EPO without needing to 'hide' it, bearing in mind that the test was first used at the Olympics in Sydney, Australia in 2000, and validated by the UCI in spring 2001. The retrospective testing was carried out since December 2004 on the entirety of the Tour de France 1999 B samples, and determined twelve positive samples - six of which belonged to Lance Armstrong.

    Those six were taken from the rider after the 1999 Tour prologue, which he won, as well as after stages 1 (Montaigu - Challans), 9 (Le Grand Bornand - Sestrières, where he beat Alex Zülle by 31 seconds), 10 (Sestrières-L'Alpe d'Huez), 12 (Saint-Galmier - Saint Flour) and 14 (Casters - Saint Gaudens).

    The testing of the LNDD involved three parameters: (A) visual interpretation, (B) percentage of isoforms (indicating EPO use when present in values greater than 80 percent, with a margin of 5 percent) and (C) mathematical modelling. Only the samples positive in each of the three parameters were interpreted as positive, with a number of other samples found inconclusive. The urine samples had been frozen at -20° Celsius, making them resistant to molecular transformations which could lead to false positive testing, according to Prof. Michel Audran, member of Science and Industry Against Blood Doping (SIAB), quoted in the paper.

    WADA is now evaluating the possible consequences for the American Tour de France champion. But because of the investigative nature of the testing, UCI sanctioning is not expected. "The investigations had an experimental character," LNDD scientific Jacques De Ceaurriz told ANP. "Since there is no possibility of a counter-evaluation, a rider can not be sanctioned on the basis of our findings."

    The entirety of the A samples had been used in 1999, and the latest LNDD examinations involved using the B samples. Nevertheless, according to L'Equipe, the leftover quantities of the B samples would still be sufficient to realize another test, if this is deemed necessary by WADA.

    The identity of the six other positive samples has not yet been revealed.
     
  8. MJtje

    MJtje New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    http://www.cyclingforums.com/t277332-armstrong-used-epo-in-99.html


     
  9. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,402
    Likes Received:
    0
  10. Roadrash Dunc

    Roadrash Dunc New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rather sneaky of the French when you think about it.
    Initially i thought "well if that isnt true Armstrongs going to be suing the arse out of this lot" but like a previous poster said , he could incriminate himself by doing so or at least lose face.

    I dont believe the top pro's are squeaky clean , they all break the rules at some time , but this strikes me as a vicious witch hunt.
    You only have to listen to what old pros are saying to realise how irrelevant this is.
    If its just to improve drug testing methods today , then no names should have been released.
    Whoever the mole was id want to avoid Armstrong if i was them.

    But even the Equipe article says the tests cannot be 100% verified so no action can be taken and the defendants cannot counter.Thats hypocrisy and madness.
     
  11. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    10,605
    Likes Received:
    339

    It would be a little more complex than that. Some countries recognize "crimminal libel" which would involve proving false statement with malice with the intent to defame of injure ones reputation.
    A civil suit would involve attempting to recover damages for alleged losses due to said written libel.
    Civil law is generallly based on comparitative fault issues and the failure to exercise reasonable care when a duty owed is involved.
    The best way would be to try to get a conviction on malicious libel and then file the civil suit.
    Of course the statutes and torts vary from country to country .
     
  12. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reaction in the cycling community has been swift and mixed in the aftermath of revelations in French paper L'Equipe that Lance Armstrong allegedly tested positive for EPO use at the 1999 Tour de France. "I feel disappointment inside me," Tour de France director Jean-Marie Leblanc said Tuesday.

    Leblanc answered "yes" when asked if he felt let down by the seven-times Tour de France champion, but added that caution was nonetheless still the order of the day.

    "I remain cautious and slightly circumspect, but this is troubling and I feel disappointment inside me, like many sports lovers must do," Leblanc said in an interview on French radio station RTL.

    Hein Verbruggen, president of the International Cycling Union (UCI), also took a wait-and-see stance, but hinted that legal recourse against Armstrong could be envisioned.

    "We have to wait and see if this is true. Only then will we be able to ask ourselves whether there should be any legal action and whether this is a further blow for cycling," Verbruggen said.

    "I have to say this is not pleasant but, for the moment, it only involves Lance Armstrong and France."

    Reaction from the peloton itself has swung closer to the side of Armstrong.

    "Why is this coming out now... It seems a little bizarre," recently retired French breakaway artist Jacky Durand said.

    "I've got real doubts on the veracity of these accusations. All this is out of my realm of expertise, but this has thrown me for a loop."

    French former Tour de France winner Laurent Fignon was more blunt in his assessment of the Armstrong brouhaha: "I don't give a sh**. 1999? This is ancient history. What does this prove and what does this solve?"

    "What interests me now is keeping the next generation of cyclists clean and drug-free."


     
  13. bobke

    bobke New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,134
    Likes Received:
    1
    I was just going to post this as well.
    Bravo!
     
  14. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Were you going to post this one as well ?
    _________
    Have a read of the last paragraph here, its a classic ! I have done a Mussette and underlined the important lies..... :)

    STATEMENT OF LANCE ARMSTRONG, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE PRO CYCLING TEAM
    For many years now, dating back to 1990, Chris Carmichael has been my coach and most important technical and training advisor. Others who work with Chris include Johan Bruyneel, my director sportif, John Cobb, in charge of aerodynamics, Dr. Luis del Moral, our team physician and Jeff Spencer my chiropractor.

    Also included are my close friends, former Belgian champion Eddy Merckx and former Motorola team director Jim Ochowitz.

    Chris and I met Michele Ferrari during a training camp in San Diego, California, in 1995. His primary role has always been limited. Since Chris cannot be in Europe on an ongoing basis, Michele does my physiological testing and provides Chris with that data on a regular basis. Chris has grown to trust Michele's opinion regarding my testing and my form on the bike. And lately, we have been specifically working on a run at the hour record. I do not know exactly when I will do that, only that I will in the near future.

    He has also consulted with Chris and me on dieting, altitude preparation, hypoxic training and the use of altitude tents, which are all natural methods of improvements.

    In the past, I have never denied my relationship with Michele Ferrari. On the other hand, I have never gone out of my way to publicize it. The reason for that is that he has had a questionable public reputation due to the irresponsible comments he made in 1994 regarding EPO.

    I want to make it clear that I do not associate myself with those remarks or, for that matter, with anyone who utilizes unethical sporting procedures. However, in my personal experience I have never had occasion to question the ethics or standard of care of Michele. Specifically, he has never discussed EPO with me and I have never used it.

    I have always been very clear on the necessity of cycling to be a clean sport and I have firmly stated that anyone, including me, who tests positive for banned substances should be severely punished.

    As everyone knows, I am one of the very few riders who have no prescriptions in my health book. I have been repeatedly tested during my career including during the entire 1999 and 2000 Tours de France and most recently during the Tour de Suisse ten days ago.


     
  15. meehs

    meehs New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ahhhh! So EPO is the "Super-Drug" that elevated Armstrong from being a "good one day racer" to the most dominant TdF rider of his generation. Just like the "nay-sayers" suspected it had to be something so sophisitcated that no other pro rider could possibly have access to it. There you have it then! This explains everything and proves without question that LA's victories are down to nothing mor ethan superior dope. None of his competitors could possibly be using this amazing "EPO" stuff!

    Gimme a break! :rolleyes:
     
  16. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do note that the LA fans have gone from 'he doesn't dope' to 'so what he is still the best rider and everyone else is doing it'.......

    He made $20million a year on his story of a clean rider and now we know its not true.... I'd be pissed if I was you....... he sucked you in !

     
  17. Roadrash Dunc

    Roadrash Dunc New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    0
    Im not an LA fan anymore than im a Ullrich fan.Im a cycling fan.
    Its small minded bitter individuals like yourself that confuse me though.
    Why follow pro cycling ? Ok , so you dont like Armstrong , he is certainly not a guy id want to socialise with , but dont let it cloud your judgement over his achievements.I dont understand this loathing you have for someone yove never met.I can understand why someone like Simieone or the numerous people he has fked over hate him , but for you sat behind your computer screen to get all excited and happy about a legend failing a dope test in a sport you follow? That makes no sense.
    What miserable little lives you sort of people must lead.
     
  18. Don Shipp

    Don Shipp New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    0
    For an informed, non-partisan, non judgemental view on this:-

    THIS THREAD NEEDS FLYER!!
     
  19. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    10,605
    Likes Received:
    339

    I was also thinking of him. I bet he is reading this stuff and going into seizures about right now.
    We will probably hear about it on the evening news.
     
  20. Chris_E

    Chris_E New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0

    is it true he's been banned from these here forums?
     
Loading...
Loading...