Better deal alert: lynskey r350 $2,995

[CAMPYBOB]

but some of those Litespeeds used smaller diameter tubing that was double butted for lightness, and dbl butted tubesets (regardless of tube size) flex a bit more than straight butted tubesets, but most TI bikes are dble butted to save weight so it can sell better, because less weight sells and sells for more money.

Wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wut??????????????????

DOUBLE BUTTED Ti??????????????????????????

YOU LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

J/K

Seriously. I never, ever heard of a frame with true DB Ti tubing. That's not to say some Roosian no-name outfit isn't rolling something that is sold as DB.

Most Ti is cheap ass'ed seam-welded rolled tubing with some mandrel and/or hydro-forming. Ti 'tubing, such as it is in the industry, is pre-destined to come unglued just by its method of manufacture. Talk about a heat affected zone...down the entire length of nearly every Ti tube going. And that's after stitch welding/tacking the rolled piece of sheet metal out and adding more stress to it. Brilliant!

Yeah, there's some externally 'butted' Ti. out there, but I'm not sure it does anything to thin the middle of the tube.

A lot of the shaped Ti is mandrel formed and the internal scratches, gouges and grooves made when the mandrell is sprung from the shaped tube leave nothing but a mess of stress risers.

Sure, uber massive tube sizes and strange shapes designed more to catch the eye of the buyer, but sold as 'dis here is fo' da extra sooper stiffness!' do little but add even more to the weight disparity between the now 600-gram carbon frames out there while doing nothing to add a competitive sales feature...like less weight might be. Duh!

Or maybe we could discuss the merits of drilling holes all over your Ti tubes for the latest fashion in geriatric bike ****...RIVETED ON TITANIUM manufacturer's name 'decals'! Holy mother of idiotic ideas, Batman! Where's my damned DeWalt drill? Let me at that thing! Ima gonna slap chrome-plated "CampyBob' logo's all over my new Ribble Rabble! **** yeah!

Worse, almost every Ti old man's dream frame is sold with...wait for it...your choice of CARBON FORK!!! You want a Lynskey fork...what the Hell is a Lynskey fork? Some cheap ass'ed, no name Chicom special? Or do you want a brand name Wound Up or Enve or whatever the carbon sales fluff du jour is with that 'forever and a day' lifetime 'investment' frame.

Amiright?

Of course I'm right!

So even the Koolaid drink anti-carbon crowd is riding a...<gasp> DEATH FORK!!!!!

And then they add carbon wheels to try and get their tanks back down to making weight. Or a carbon seatpost. Or complete carbon cockpit. Or a saddle with a carbon shell. or...<another crowd gasp inserted here!> CARBON shitmaNO pedals!!!!

So, in summary...CARBON! It's what's for dinner. And my next bike.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

But dude, all of those bikes, some of which never got built, keeping broken bikes (not sure why you broke so many bikes, I've never knew anyone to break as many as you have, I got lucky racing in that I never crashed while racing); which all of that leads me to this question: do you have adult ADHD? what's odd most competitors have ADHD, it's been known that people with ADHD if channeled into sports gives them the edge to succeed in whatever sport they undertake. So I didn't say you have ADHD to you to offend you.

Two of the destroyed Pinarello's were 'invisible cyclist' syndrome. Sometime I'll type out the exact details of all three of the spectacular training demo derbies for you.

The broken frames are a reminder of how even when a man is fast, powerful, young and very handsome...life can deal you a hammer blow. They are reminders of happy times when a wad of hundred dollar bills was flashed in a shop half a continent away to scratch an itch...and of the good times had with friends and competitors on that once straight speed machine.

The race crashes were ordinary and common place race incidents. If you ain't crashing, you ain't trying hard enough.

No ADHD. Polio, yes.

I was always a very attentive guy in the pack and it saved my bacon more than a few times. Still, there's a reason they call it 'racing' instead of 'practicing'. There's a big difference. Going fast, everyone's brain fades. That's the rulz. Hit YouTube and watch any race from Cat 4 crash fests right up to the death & destruction in the Pro Tour events. We fall. Often.

I will readily admit, however, to subjecting my bikes to double RR track flyovers (er...'mostly' successful!), curb hops at 20-25 MPH to avoid crashes or cut a corner (again...mostly stylishly pulled off), bouncing off cars, spectators, a parking meter here and there and the multiple over-my-team-mate aerial launches that had the judges score cards torn into confetti as they screamed TEN! TEN! TEN! in unison.

I've taken out several helmets, at least one pair of shoes, an Ironman Timex watch, a half-dozen Campy Record/Super Record brake levers, enough wheels to start a small racing squad and one pair of prescription sunglasses with glass lens that ended up in fractured pieces on the brick streets of some long forgotten road.

The falls in hairnets are so far distant in my past thet I've forgotten them, was to concussed to remember them or are still mentally blocked in the playback deck of my failing memory.

I've trained on saddles with one or both sides ground away, derailleurs with the logo's chewed nearly off, pedals so scraped up anyone that ever saw them and was in their right mind never went by me on the outside and I made a point of wearing our long sleeve team jerseys for crits even if it was 95 degrees.

My race face was and is legendary. Motley scruff and a scornful scowl...to this day I only smile in a deliberately casual fashion if the fates smile on me and I use my brain to attack instead of sitting in to be the first loser on the podium.

Broken fingers, ribs, dislocations, abrasions, contusions, concussions, sprains, hip pointers, lacerations, blood loss and a brain starved for oxygen has been my life story.

We are roadies. We have rules! We are the keepers of The Flame. The Fire that burns within.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Exactly the way God intended bikes to be made. Titanium and Shimano.

<cough>

Worse...lollipop pedals. And what's that...a Thomson seatpost with zero setback? What? No arms? And a CARBON fork!?

J/K That's a damned nice ride, Kop! Love the seatpost sticking out of that frame...looks like a perfect fit for a racer type. Give us more side shots of it!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Just cruised Lynskey's website of over-priced toys for geriatrics. I could find no mention of this double-butted Ti tubing of which you speak?

Am I missing it or is it only used on certain models?

They do make a huge deal over their tacky riveted-on logos and laser etched logos and choice of brushed or polished bare tubing...and of course the choice of unsafe, no-name carbon fiber forks so at least half your frame can still asplode like all the cool kidz do.

And then...there is that helical down tube abortion...

 

[Froze]

YOU HAVE POLIO?! I'm sorry to hear that, but you seem to be doing well with it from only what I know of you, so congrats for handling it so well.

I knew you would go and write a book about your anguish. Now look, I've never sawed a bunch of different TI frame tubes in half to see what a company means when they say they use dble butted tubing so I just take their word for it, which I doubt that companies with big names that sell expensive TI bikes would risk their reputations on not using dble butted tubes...so why would you think that way? Of course I know they mean that they only dble butt the 3 main tubes, I don't think ever recall any company, even steel makers, doing that to the stays or the headtube, I know that my Lynskey has reinforcement bands top and bottom of the headtube but that's not dble butted.

Fork wise you're wrong about what I did with my Lynskey. I got my Lynskey through Adrenalin Bikes because they could swap out stuff and I only had to pay the difference. So, like what you said, I had no idea who made the Lynskey fork, so I swapped that fork out for a Enve 2.0, and if you know the difference between the 2.0 and the 1.0 you know why I chose the 2.0 even though I only weigh 170...I wanted a long term fork. I also swapped a lower end FSA headset for a Cane Creek 110, rear 105 for Ultegra, regular Shimano cables to DA9000, wheelset from the black Shimano RS500 to silver RS500 (501?) which even though they cost the same the silver series is 5 mm deeper.

And seam welding is not cheap ass, I thought you would know better than that. You need to read this: http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/materials.php You'll find out that seamed tubing works fine except for 6-4 TI, read that site and learn something.

I don't believe in your crash analysis of not trying hard enough, I made to Cat 3 and was ranked high enough that I could have gone to 4 but only money was a sore point. I've always had quick reflexes and handling skills in both cycling and auto racing I tried to get into, and these attributes served me well in the military. I've always been able to stay out of severe trouble, even riding and training on the streets including in Los Angeles I only had one crash that destroyed a bike and dislocated a shoulder, and one that destroyed a front wheel and dislocated a shoulder. Yeah I had to jump over obstacles, ride across

As far as riding with worn out parts...well that's your thing, I never knew anyone to do that. Besides, if you had used Shimano you would only had to go through 3 or 4 brake levers instead of a dozen like you did with Campy...LOL!!!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

YOU HAVE POLIO?! I'm sorry to hear that, but you seem to be doing well with it from only what I know of you, so congrats for handling it so well.

Yeah. Paralysis of the right leg. I raced as able bodied and in the Para-Olympics. Me and Allen Kingsberry (sp).

I just take their word for it, which I doubt that companies with big names that sell expensive TI bikes would risk their reputations on not using dble butted tubes...

Again...'what' DB Ti tubes? I've never heard of them other than the externally reinforced (thickened) stuff that Seven and some others use. Mandrels and Ti don't exactly play nice.

I don't think ever recall any company, even steel makers, doing that to the stays or the headtube

Swaged/Swedged stays/fork blades.

There were butted headtubes. Never heard of a double butted one in that short length.

And seam welding is not cheap ass, I thought you would know better than that.

It is and I do. Metallurgically speaking, equiax grain is inferior to directionally solidified is inferior to single crystal. Seam welding? That's for gas pipe Schwinns. Not thoroughbreds.

I made to Cat 3 and was ranked high enough that I could have gone to 4 but only money was a sore point.

Wait! Wut???? a 4 is lower than a 3. WTF? I was a 3 and never in my wildest dreams would I have been upgraded to a 2 on points.

As far as riding with worn out parts...well that's your thing, I never knew anyone to do that.

Not worn...crashed. Usually only a few weeks or months old. Like scabs on the arm or scars on the legs they were ridden with honor. Yeah, I still have boxes of those around and a few made the trophy case. More pride in a couple of those relics than the cheesy $5 medal won in some backwater crit or RR.

 

[Froze]

Ok, I'm not going to get into seam welding, I posted a site that explained that but I have a feeling you didn't read that.

Quite a few TI builders do dble butted tubes, so it must not be that complicated to do when a lower costing company like Habanero does it, as does Moots, . But from what I've read over the years it appears that straight gauge is more reliable with titanium and flexes less, but the proponents of dble butted framesets refute that saying it doesn't affect strength, I'm going with Tom Kellog at Spectrum and a few others on this. I would rather save the money on getting a slightly heavier straight gauge TI bike and put that money into wheels instead.

It's been awhile, nearly 30 years ago, when I raced, I got my number order mixed up while typing this nonsense too fast without thinking, it was 2 not 4.

I throw away all my broken and worn out parts, no need for them thus don't need to take up space with junk, kind of like my medals too including the ones from the service...but that's because I didn't like the service and didn't want to be reminded, throwing those medals away was therapeutic for me, it was like getting rid of something that was not needed to be reminded of...I'm weird that way and it's difficult to explain, a lot of guys I knew kept their medals because they like to talk about stuff, me, I don't want to talk about it, I buried it and it's gone. The cycling medals weren't that intense, but with me moving all the time it was one less box of **** to move, and I didn't have any need for the stuff.

To clear everyone up on terms SWAG has two meanings, the one that you were thinking where the inside of the tube is tapered; then there's swag seatstays which means they are slightly curved. Maybe I have that wrong due to different spellings of swag? I don't have time to look it up but I think I'm right.

Anyway congrats for doing so well with cycling while having polio, that's truly remarkable, keep it up which I'm sure you will.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

But from what I've read over the years it appears that straight gauge is more reliable with titanium and flexes less, but the proponents of dble butted framesets refute that saying it doesn't affect strength, I'm going with Tom Kellog at Spectrum and a few others on this.

The problem with using butted Ti. is the micro-scratching caused by mandrel withdrawal. It creates stress risers and is generally avoided. I don't know for certain, but I doubt Moots or any manufacture micro laps or polishes their tube stock internally to remove the defects...never know though, but it sure would be cost prohibitive. The cold worked Reynolds stuff might be decent or they might be really describing warm working to reduce yield temporarily and minimize spring back?

Seam welding, aka building bikes out of sheet stock, NEVER creates as uniform and metallurgically homogeneous zone as a cast, extruded, single piece structure. It sets up a perfect spot for a split and failure regardless of a manufacturer's advertising copy.

And yeah, I figure you just screwed up the Cat thing. No biggee.

I hope to be like the 105-year old French guy that set the new UCI Record Of The Hour for his age group. He didn't quite equal the distance he set when he was a youngster of 100, but that's one Hell of a man! I bow to his superior health, fitness and his firm grip on living a life worth living!

 

[kopride]

<cough>

Worse...lollipop pedals. And what's that...a Thomson seatpost with zero setback? What? No arms? And a CARBON fork!?

J/K That's a damned nice ride, Kop! Love the seatpost sticking out of that frame...looks like a perfect fit for a racer type. Give us more side shots of it!

Ha. At some point I think Froze will realize that you are trolling him. Who cares what someone else thinks about your bike as long as your happy? Thanks. BTW, my next bike will be carbon.

I am 6' with a 30" inseam. In other words, freakishly long torso, short legs. Seat is set back at max. The stem is long as well. Same with the Speedplay pedals. EEEE feet so my shoes rub against the crank arm--and I have a half size difference so I really need to play with the cleats to get it dialed in right. I got professionally fitted on that bike a few years ago, and it made a huge difference. Probably why I don't want to go through the whole process again getting fitted for a new bike.

I had a surgery on my nuts a few years ago, so its very important I sit on my sitz bones, not on the taint, or anywhere forward. The odd fit is part of that as well.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Ha. At some point I think Froze will realize that you are trolling him.

SHHHH! Be vewwwy quiet! I'm hunting da wabbit!

BTW, my next bike will be carbon.

Choose wisely and I think you'll love it. My Wilier's have kind of mushy BB's, but other than wanting more stiffness there I think they ride, handle and respond like a good racing machine should. That cheap Douglas Matrix gets more compliments for its looks than it should, IMO, but the damn thing is one of the best racing bikes I've thrown a leg over. The Emonda is super stiff, but a bit too tall in the front end even a slammed stem. A horizontal stem is in the works. The Ribble is promising, but I'll know more when Spring arrives in Ohio.

Seat is set back at max. The stem is long as well.

A Deda Super Zero carbon seatpost would add glamour and style...along with 20 MM more setback! I had to use one on the Emonda. The 8 MM and 12 MM Bontrager seatposts I tried just didn't cut it. My Campy seatposts have 25 MM setback, but Campy discontinued the production of seatposts...weird.

Same with the Speedplay pedals. EEEE feet so my shoes rub against the crank arm--and I have a half size difference so I really need to play with the cleats to get it dialed in right.

Due to the Polio and growing up in casts (think of Chinese foot binding!) I have a full 2 sizes difference in the length of my feet...plus, my paralyzed foot is wider! I play Hell buying shoes. One side too tight...and cycling shoes do not respond well to shoe stretchers...and one side too loose. My paralyzed foot is also angled much more on the pedal than the other foot. I do look a bit weird if you ride behind me and pay attention to my pedaling. And power meters? You should see the erratic data! Leg power balance stats are just unbelievably 'off'. Power distribution throughout the rotation is also a laugh to look at!

I had a surgery on my nuts a few years ago,

OUCH!

 

[kopride]

SHHHH! Be vewwwy quiet! I'm hunting da wabbit!




Choose wisely and I think you'll love it. My Wilier's have kind of mushy BB's, but other than wanting more stiffness there I think they ride, handle and respond like a good racing machine should. That cheap Douglas Matrix gets more compliments for its looks than it should, IMO, but the damn thing is one of the best racing bikes I've thrown a leg over. The Emonda is super stiff, but a bit too tall in the front end even a slammed stem. A horizontal stem is in the works. The Ribble is promising, but I'll know more when Spring arrives in Ohio.



A Deda Super Zero carbon seatpost would add glamour and style...along with 20 MM more setback! I had to use one on the Emonda. The 8 MM and 12 MM Bontrager seatposts I tried just didn't cut it. My Campy seatposts have 25 MM setback, but Campy discontinued the production of seatposts...weird.



Due to the Polio and growing up in casts (think of Chinese foot binding!) I have a full 2 sizes difference in the length of my feet...plus, my paralyzed foot is wider! I play Hell buying shoes. One side too tight...and cycling shoes do not respond well to shoe stretchers...and one side too loose. My paralyzed foot is also angled much more on the pedal than the other foot. I do look a bit weird if you ride behind me and pay attention to my pedaling. And power meters? You should see the erratic data! Leg power balance stats are just unbelievably 'off'. Power distribution throughout the rotation is also a laugh to look at!

OUCH!

A new carbon bike is on the list. As you can see, I tend to keep bikes a while so I probably will go something special. I am lusting after a Pinnarello even though I know that you can get better bikes cheaper. That's a big investment so I tend to put it off for "next year." The Masi was N + 2 this year--I got a CX bike earlier in 2016 so a Pinnarello, or the like, is probably not in the cards until this summer. It's the same reason why I keep further upgrades to the Litespeed in check.

In order, my dream list includes a Cycleops Hammer-smart trainer, a 29 Hardtail, a tubular CX wheel set, a new carbon road bike, and a fat bike. N + 1 is alive and strong.

The medical and fit issues suck. Sounds like yours are more of a hassle. As you know, Polio can cause late onset recurrent problems. Post-Polio syndrome is no joke. Sounds like you are at least unaffected by the second go-round. I've got some insoles and other stuff to try and deal with my shoe issues. Even with a lot of playing around, it still isn't perfect. My stuff is relatively minor.

That groin surgery kept me off the bike for close to two years; and caused chronic radiating pain for about 8. It sucked. I am truly grateful to the surgeon who fixed it. Least I can do is manage my riding position to not screw up his good work again.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

As you know, Polio can cause late onset recurrent problems. Post-Polio syndrome is no joke. Sounds like you are at least unaffected by the second go-round.

I was the poster child for trying to overcome and over-compensate for Polio. I remember coming home from major surgery on the leg for the umpteenth time and in a hip cast...jumped out of dad's car and ran...er...hopped...across the road to join the neighborhood gang in the ongoing game of tackle football. The kids allowed me to play 2-hand tap using my crutches to tag them! LOL!

Yeah...Post-Polio Syndrome scares the **** out of me. Supposedly, studies show it most affects those that worked hardest at overcoming the effects of Polio...not good! As a lifetime athlete I'm still doing very well in terms of power developed (considering the paralysis level), muscle control and overall health. The team of very advanced doctors that treated me in the 1950's and 1960's told my parents that I would be in a wheelchair by the time I was 50. I'm glad they got that prediction wrong!

At 63 I can report no sign of PPS, but there's still a lot of life ahead of me. Hopefully!

You seem pretty knowledgable about Polio and PPS. A rarity these days and thankfully so.

I've got some insoles and other stuff to try and deal with my shoe issues. Even with a lot of playing around, it still isn't perfect. My stuff is relatively minor.

I use leg length shims from BikeFit.com. http://www.bikefit.com/default.aspx My Polio leg is 1 Cm shorter than my other leg in the relaxed, horizontal (laying on my back) measuring position. I use two 3 MM shims and have found that to be a pretty decent 'fix' for the length discrepancy. I can not rotate the Polio leg so unclipping from the pedal has always meant reaching down with my left hand and smacking the heel of my shoe with the pedat near TDC. Crashing usually involves ending up still with one shoe/foot attached to the bike.

That groin surgery kept me off the bike for close to two years; and caused chronic radiating pain for about 8. It sucked. I am truly grateful to the surgeon who fixed it. Least I can do is manage my riding position to not screw up his good work again.

Amazing! Nut pain for 8 years! Yeah, you definitely don't what to un-do the doc's work down there! A college room mate had a congenital 'knot' in one epididymis. During a raid on the women's dorm he karate kicked a phone off the wall as he was running down a hallway. That pulled the knot tight and strangled the nut. The pain was so bad we had him the ER by 2 AM and the nut was removed the next morning. I can't imagine what 8 years of that kind of pain would be like to live through. Not fun, for sure!

 

[kopride]

I

At 63 I can report no sign of PPS, but there's still a lot of life ahead of me. Hopefully!

You seem pretty knowledgable about Polio and PPS. A rarity these days and thankfully so.


Amazing! Nut pain for 8 years! he karate kicked a phone off the wall as he was running down a hallway. I can't imagine what 8 years of that kind of pain would be like to live through. Not fun, for sure!

My family has a fairly severe strain of CMTX, which many people used to confuse with polio even though its a completely different disease. In our families' case, it basically causes loss of nerve function to the bottom third of the upper and lower extremities followed by severe atrophy to the distal muscles. My Dad developed obvious and unusually extreme symptoms of CMT in the 1930s so most people thought he had polio growing up and would get out of the pool when he got in. He has no calf muscles to speak of, and his forearms and fingers have little function. He spent his childhood with clunky braces, and his adult braces weren't much better. Doctors recommended that he go to a school for "crippled children," to which my Irish grandmother basically used the f-word the one and only occasion in life, and sent him to regular schools. As an x-linked disease on my father's side, I didn't get the bad gene. My sisters are carriers and some of my male cousins--from my Dad's sisters--because their sole X is a bad CMT--X have it pretty bad. Females usually carry and get a more subtle form because they do have at least one good X. Because I got only a Y from my Dad, I'm neither a carrier nor sufferer. Basically, because we were such a huge family (My Grandmother had 9 siblings, and they all had big families), we were the subject of multiple studies into this syndrome; as well as lots of research into various types of braces, shoes; and most recently, an experimental "bionic" prosthetic that duplicates a calf muscle. CMTXs walk with a very pronounced drop foot because they can't articulate their foot at the ankle joint. In the early days, the bracing and shoes was very similar to polio groups. As that population has aged out. . . sorry . . . there is more focus on congenital conditions causing nerve loss in the extremities, including milder forms of MD and CMT. The PPS syndrome group is another population being considered for the newer types of bracing.

As an aside, I wonder how much PPS is re-decompensation. In my Dad's case, he developed a very unusual walking style, and his working muscles and nerves compensated for his muscles and nerves that didn't. He never used a cane because he always said, once he started using one, he would be wheelchair bound. because he was always worried about ending up in a chair, my Dad would walk for miles with his strange gait and shoes, and I got in lots of fights if somebody mocked his walk . . . he was a well known fixture around our area and had "earned" lots of ignorant nicknames and sometimes other kids didn't know the relation. I usually only had that fight once.

As he's aged, the ability of those serviceable muscles to compensate for the dead nerves and muscles decreased. That, in turn, causes a loss of mobility, which means that additional compensating muscles atrophy. It's tough for him because his upper extremity problems prevent him from effectively using canes or crutches. I think that the same issue may occur in PPS. it's also why the people who successfully recompensated themselves after the acute stage, have more severe problems when they are older. IOW, I am not convinced that PPS is a true reactivation of the virus, as opposed to something similar to what my Dad struggles with, which is that he no longer has enough strength and dexterity in his unaffected nerves and muscles to offset the paralysis. As much as you like to ride, I wonder whether there is value in some resistance training of your unaffected parts to make sure that you maintain the strength you need that allows you to function. In any event, its an interesting scientific issue and neuromuscular diseases is an area of particular interest to my family.

My nut pain also evolved from a martial arts injury. I was taking a form of kyokushinkai with an big instructor who liked heavy low kicks to the upper inner thigh. Small target and if you miss high it causes a devastating groin injury--iow, the right one swelled up like a grapefruit after some 250 pound guy kicked me square on, and it was re-injured in similar fashion over a 5 year period, each injury getting worse. Common sense and more expensive medical co-pays prevailed and I started doing duathalons, instead of an activity that involved constant bruises and injuries.

When I started doing more cycling, it was just an occasional twinge after long rides which evolved into occasional bouts of epididymitis Then, after a vasectomy, it turned into 8 years of hell. Before the surgery I got, I swear I was contemplating getting one of them lopped off. It was horrible unrelenting radiating pain coming from my right side. Eventually, I had to get off the bike completely and get a fairly involved surgery. Knock on wood, but I'm about 4 years pain free. I do try and ride less than two hours at a stretch, stand a lot to relieve pressure, and have my position so that I am squarely sitting back on my sitz bones.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Wow! Got to digest your post! I've never heard of CMTX and the 5 seconds I spent reading Google does make it sound very similar to Polio. Off to research.

Agree that PPS is not a reactivation of the virus, but more of a reaction to 'life'. And as much as I have actually seen, it seems to more acutely affect those that did NOT have athletic lives...data be damned.

Karate and almost every other martial art can be brutal. Mass and speed yield energy that may or may not be controlled. Much like high speed bicycle crashes or crashes involving large, steel objects, pain and bodily injury are the results! After reading what have typed about your injury, I would have found the one good use for Ti in cycling and had the doc implant a big pair of Ti ballz. That clanked when I walked. Instant respect from the men and adoration from the women!

 

[kopride]

Wow! Got to digest your post! I've never heard of CMTX and the 5 seconds I spent reading Google does make it sound very similar to Polio. Off to research.

Agree that PPS is not a reactivation of the virus, but more of a reaction to 'life'. And as much as I have actually seen, it seems to more acutely affect those that did NOT have athletic lives...data be damned.

!

CMTX is potentially disabling and progressive but its not potentially fatal like Polio. It's more like a form of MD. In my Dad's case, it was very severe since infancy. Because it was so rare, he underwent a lot of testing as a kid to rule out other stuff including polio. For my cousins, it developed later in adolescence and is not nearly as severe. Theoretically, I have no bad X to pass.

Your perception about PPS is right. Outcomes seem better for folks that stay active. But folks that have a nerve disorder who do not stay active usually start from a lower level of function to begin with. Accordingly, when they age, the difference in function is more pronounced. IOW, if you were already in a wheelchair or using crutches, then the age-related changes are less noticeable. If you go from walking independently without aids to needing more assistance, its noticeable. I've never heard any recommendations to limit activity, or avoid athletics. My Dad's compensation issues were not really evident until his late 70s.

It's great you were able to race and achieve so much in cycling. My Dad actually adapted pretty well to swimming, swam competitively when he was a kid, and that was his deal for many years. It's tough for him to get in and out of a pool area safely, and he's too damn proud to use a chair.

Growing up with a father with a disability did alter my perception and make me more grateful. Every time I ran with my kids or chase after them, I couldn't help but think that I was doing something my father would have moved heaven and earth to experience. When I ran cross country in high school, I would think that I was doing something my Dad never did. At the same time, it made me realize how courageous and how much will it takes for some people to walk a few miles, or carry out the activities of daily living. His feet were a blistery bumpy mess. He always swam as well.

Cycling is a great sport. There is something about it, that even today, I feel like a kid when I get on my bike and start to ride. Very few things in my life match that joy. It really sucked when a medical issue kept me off the bike. Ride on.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

It's great you were able to race and achieve so much in cycling. My Dad actually adapted pretty well to swimming, swam competitively when he was a kid, and that was his deal for many years. It's tough for him to get in and out of a pool area safely, and he's too damn proud to use a chair.

Good for him! I was involved in a nasty car crash when I was 18. My 'comeback' started with swimming because I was so weak. I joined the college swim team and did distance events since I could sort of drag my leg. I found swimming boring and that's when a guy in the dorm loaned me one of his Schwinn Continentals in February. I was hooked and a group of us did the 201-mile TOSRV tour that May. Hey, when you're 18 you can do anything, right?! And yes, we were stupid! My ass bled for a week!

Growing up with a father with a disability did alter my perception and make me more grateful. Every time I ran with my kids or chase after them, I couldn't help but think that I was doing something my father would have moved heaven and earth to experience. When I ran cross country in high school, I would think that I was doing something my Dad never did. At the same time, it made me realize how courageous and how much will it takes for some people to walk a few miles, or carry out the activities of daily living. His feet were a blistery bumpy mess. He always swam as well.

I'm glad you have that 'perception' of reality. It teaches a man what is important in life. In all honesty and no fake humbleness, I really don't think I did anything special. There are lots and lots of folks like your dad and me. Our stories are rarely told...too boring and mundane. And even when they are it is only immediate family or those that also had close experiences with the affects of some nasty disease or other that are interested. No biggee. Your dad did what he had to do...what he could do...and probably some of just what he wanted to do.

We may not have the balance to become ballet dancers with the Kiev or be able to run a marathon, but we got by and even did a lot of things many able bodied people were afraid to tackle.

And a disability, be it polio, CMTX or smashed nutz to the point you can't ride a bike for years teaches us...it is nothing. Cancer. ALS. MD. CP. CF. All of those are far worse and there are many, many more of those really serious diseases.

You are correct that some strains/types of Polio are fatal, but that was a small percentage. Like you, I count my blessings. I got lucky. And I not only survived. I had a lot of fun doing it. I hope your dad had just as much fun going through life!

I tell my wife, "No one gave us a death sentence today! We should be happy and thankful for that!".

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Cycling is a great sport. There is something about it, that even today, I feel like a kid when I get on my bike and start to ride. Very few things in my life match that joy. It really sucked when a medical issue kept me off the bike. Ride on.

Riding is a mental fountain of youth! Sure, it keeps us in shape, but it's the feeling of being on a time machine that allows us feel like the fit little runts we once were that I also enjoy the most.

Off the bike for two years? That's a hard thought to wrap my mind around!

 

[Froze]

Like I said before I've never sawed a dbl butted ti tube lengthwise to see if it's truly dble butted or not, I'm also not into metallurgy so all of that whether or not something is dble butted, or how complicated it is to do such a thing with all the polishing and micro laps with TI and whether or not any company is doing that, so I would have no clue whatsoever! So in that regard I'll take your word for it. And as scary as this sounds it wouldn't be the first time I took your word for something! LOL!!

 

[kopride]

Our stories are rarely told...too boring and mundane. And even when they are it is only immediate family or those that also had close experiences with the affects of some nasty disease or other that are interested. No biggee. Your dad did what he had to do...what he could do...and probably some of just what he wanted to do.

You are correct that some strains/types of Polio are fatal, but that was a small percentage. Like you, I count my blessings. I got lucky. And I not only survived. I had a lot of fun doing it. I hope your dad had just as much fun going through life!

I tell my wife, "No one gave us a death sentence today! We should be happy and thankful for that!".

True. My Dad actually never told his story. Put his braces on in his room, and he never made it any issue. Growing up, it was just that's the way my Dad walks. I didn't learn it until later--bits and pieces from his mom, siblings, and folks who knew him then. When another generation started showing signs, my Dad got more involved in the research and was more open about his problem. By then I was in college. Lately, he's been very involved with some prosthetic research because he has a grandson with CP and the same type of bracing can be adapted for kids who have CP-related lower extremity paralysis. CP is a completely different problem that dwarfs what we thought was our family's only issue. That kid is a brave kid who has a very tough set of challenges.

My Dad did have lots of fun. Because he already walked funny and had crappy balance, he rarely drank, which was a big change from many of the other Irish Catholic degenerates in my extended family. I never saw him even remotely impaired-- a rarity in my family and neighborhood. When I started to fall into that trap, it was a huge help to have someone who could function and have fun without alcohol.

I here you about feeling bad with no shoes until you see the guy with no feet. Every day above ground is a victory. For me, being off the bike for 2 years meant that I took up yoga. After 30 years of chasing men wearing lycra on bikes, I said, "how long has this co-ed underwear stretching party been going on, and why has nobody ever told me about it, until now." Suffice it to say, that I used my time wisely. Still glad to be back riding.

Still. I will always give a heads up to those who have to do a little more to get out there. It's hard enough for folks who don't have any excuse. I also like to combine medical related charity and fitness. Charity 5ks, charity bike rides, fundraisers, and sponsoring some other charities is all great. I get my kids involved as well.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

So in that regard I'll take your word for it. And as scary as this sounds it wouldn't be the first time I took your word for something! LOL!!

For 'cold' working Ti the tooling is usually heated, as is the Ti work piece...the tube in this case. There are some really good lubricants available that allow the withdrawal of the mandrel with minimal marking, but the production tooling and fixturing has to be damned near perfect in surface finish. We polish and lap a lot of the type of tooling and the finish is usually worn in a hurry as it is a punishing process with any material.

If Reynolds / Tube Industries is making it, I would have faith that's it's a good product.

Carbon fails if not laid up correctly or if the resin has voids, etc. Ti. fails due to grain structure irregularities, inclusions, voids, cold shuts, splits caused by seam welding, etc. Aluminum fails from fatigue and weld heat affected zone issues (thus: the use of Scandium) and the same things that also affect Ti. and steel. Steel fatigues, cracks from over heating brazed joints, etc. It all fails. That's the one constant of material science.

In cycling the largest percentage of pure frame failures (i.e. not caused by a crash...which usually kill a frame no matter what it's made out of) are fatigue or heat related. Carbon eliminates the heat problem and offers the best fatigue resistance while introducing other manufacturing problems that affect reliability.

Like the man said, we ride what we enjoy riding, but there is no magic bullet when it comes to frame material. Shiney or matte black...light weight or less light weight...metal or plastic...it's all a trade off.