Big Mig - honest, dishonest?



C

Callistus Valerius

Guest
My favorite tdf winner is the Big Mig. The fact that he was big (170
lbs), that he used clinchers, he was an averaged sized guy, using regular
stuff, not superlight ****, always made him my favorite. Dope free also,
makes him one of the few legitimate winners. Also, his exit was dignified,
and he always seemed less arrogant than the other riders who have come on
gone since. I don't think there are any Indurain haters even out there.
Wouldn't it be nice, if those kind of riders were again invited back into
the peloton.
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
Callistus Valerius wrote:
> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.


Dumbass,

Salbutamol, 1994.

Bob Schwartz
 
D

Dan Gregory

Guest
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

>
> Dumbass,
>
> Salbutamol, 1994.

In which year Riis admits he was using Epo
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
Dan Gregory wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.

>>
>> Dumbass,
>>
>> Salbutamol, 1994.

> In which year Riis admits he was using Epo


Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
in following years.

In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
sure when that came, 1996?

Bob Schwartz
 
On May 25, 9:35 am, "Callistus Valerius" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> My favorite tdf winner is the Big Mig. The fact that he was big (170
> lbs), that he used clinchers, he was an averaged sized guy, using regular
> stuff, not superlight ****, always made him my favorite. Dope free also,
> makes him one of the few legitimate winners. Also, his exit was dignified,
> and he always seemed less arrogant than the other riders who have come on
> gone since. I don't think there are any Indurain haters even out there.
> Wouldn't it be nice, if those kind of riders were again invited back into
> the peloton.


I always liked the fact that he was closer to ~195 lbs. before his
great transformation into a TdF champ and that he could still climb
very well at that weight. Gave some (false) hope to us fat boys that
climb like bags of cement. Plus, I always admired the fact that he
did his time as a super-domestique in service of Delgado before
becoming a champion.

I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
naive but it is how I want to remember him.
 
> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
> naive but it is how I want to remember him.


Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
head's going to explode...........

Seriously, this is one goddamn mess because if anyone deserves to get
busted it was coke head Pantani.

CH
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
>> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

>
>Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
>'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
>was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
>well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
>BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
>that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
>head's going to explode...........


This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they take
out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be clean?

Dope or not Indurain was great.

>Seriously, this is one goddamn mess because if anyone deserves to get
>busted it was coke head Pantani.


As I recall he was busted and by a greater authority than cycling can invoke.

Ron
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
>>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
>>> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

>>
>>Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
>>'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
>>was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
>>well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
>>BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
>>that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
>>head's going to explode...........

>
> This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they
> take
> out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be
> clean?


I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.
 
On May 25, 1:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
>
>
> > On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email protected]"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> >>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
> >>> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

>
> >>Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
> >>'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
> >>was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
> >>well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
> >>BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
> >>that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
> >>head's going to explode...........

>
> > This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they
> > take
> > out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be
> > clean?

>
> I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
> Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.


Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. Julich? likely,
too. Hamilton? I think only he and his only mentor still believe.
 
S

Sandy

Guest
Dans le message de news:[email protected],
B. Lafferty <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> "RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email protected]"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
>>>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this
>>>> is naive but it is how I want to remember him.
>>>
>>> Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
>>> 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
>>> was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
>>> well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY
>>> **** BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the
>>> scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh
>>> my god my head's going to explode...........

>>
>> This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If
>> they take
>> out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know
>> to be clean?

>
> I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold
> or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.


New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
[notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.
 
On May 25, 12:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" wrote:

> I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
> Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.


I saw Mottet cry on the podium at Worlds in Co. (the story being that
he raced clean and Argentin... maybe didn't?)

All well and good as long as there is no possibility that any food
(water, drinks, whatever) or pills or injections had any trace of
forbidden substances in them.

The obvious question is, how does an athlete know he is "clean"?

The "athlete is totally responsible" clause was another low blow in
the War on People.

========

OK, the dam has burst. Mr. 60% (he who gained weight and turned orange
during the TdF, in addition to winning the thing) has admitted using
EPO and other.

All charges, sanctions for positives, whatever and whoever, are
immediately dropped, for everyone.

Just a drop in the bucket, but that would be at least a sign of an
admission from the Power that they are fundamentally responsible for
the mess-- by making bad rules they could not fairly enforce through
simple testing, which situation caused widespread "cheating".

After all, if you know the guy or team next to you can cop an unfair
advantage with little-to-no fear of being detected, what are your
options?

Remember "Lead us not into temptation"? Makes me wonder if any of
these holy rollin' dope cops ever read the Good Book.

At some point, the world of sport needs to grasp the concept of an
"unsolveable problem", and find a way to play fair. --D-y
 
D

Donald Munro

Guest
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> With a little bit of luck and a couple more 7-CD set self-realization
> courses from California, I will be fully justified by the time I die.


Somebody should have sent some of these Californian CD sets to Sartre.
 
On May 25, 1:58 pm, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email protected]"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
> >>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this is
> >>> naive but it is how I want to remember him.

>
> >>Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
> >>'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
> >>was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
> >>well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY ****
> >>BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the scandal
> >>that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh my god my
> >>head's going to explode...........

>
> > This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If they
> > take
> > out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know to be
> > clean?

>
> I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold or the
> Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal


Of course I think anyone would feel cheated and would want justice.
Clearly the worst victims of doping are those that are truly clean and
have made the sacrifices their sport demands only to be denied their
just dues. (Not that anybody outside the world of pro cycling
believes that there is a such thing as a "clean" rider anymore). As
others here have asked, how do you re-write the race results in good
concious and without knowing whether you are swapping one cheater for
another? In the case of Riis, Ullrich, and Pantani you're talking
about +/- 10 years ago. Looking at the GC standings of those Tours,
who would you elevate to the top step of the podium?
 
D

Donald Munro

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> OK, the dam has burst. Mr. 60% (he who gained weight and turned orange
> during the TdF


That would be a nice trick for a Euskatel rider (the orange bit anyway).

> At some point, the world of sport needs to grasp the concept of an
> "unsolveable problem", and find a way to play fair. --D-y


Unfortunately this dumb circle jerk is probably going to result in more
power to dicks like Pound.
 
D

Donald Munro

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> Who can we say was really clean? Eki? Probably. Julich? likely,
> too. Hamilton? I think only he and his only mentor still believe.


I believe.

Tugboat

PS Could someone turn on the air conditioner.
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Dans le message de news:[email protected],
> B. Lafferty <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré
> :
>> "RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> On 25 May 2007 09:36:57 -0700, "[email protected]"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I too will always think of him as being a dignified patron of the
>>>>> peleton and-- rightyl or wrongly-- as a clean rider. Perhaps this
>>>>> is naive but it is how I want to remember him.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, this is naive! Big Mig was a doper; he was once described as
>>>> 'EPO perfected'. I sure as hell hope no one still believes Pantani
>>>> was clean! If they take Riis' title, they should take Pantani's as
>>>> well. Should Ullrich admit he doped too that would leave...HOLY
>>>> **** BOBBY JULICH AS THE VIRTUAL TdF champion! Considering the
>>>> scandal that year and his meteoric crash, I'd Julich was clean. Oh
>>>> my god my head's going to explode...........
>>>
>>> This is why the entire concept of rewriting results is so stupid. If
>>> they take
>>> out Riis, who do they replace him with? Someone who we somehow know
>>> to be clean?

>>
>> I wonder how you would feel if you raced clean and lost Olympic Gold
>> or the Tour to a doper. I'd want justice and the medal.

>
> New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
> [notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.


Damn Sandy, I could be the virtual TdF champion without having been there.
;-)
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"Donald Munro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>> With a little bit of luck and a couple more 7-CD set self-realization
>> courses from California, I will be fully justified by the time I die.

>
> Somebody should have sent some of these Californian CD sets to Sartre.
>


Not even that could have let him die a happy death. (joke intended).
 
B

benjo maso

Guest
"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Dan Gregory wrote:
>> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>>> Callistus Valerius wrote:
>>>> Dope free also, makes him one of the few legitimate winners.
>>>
>>> Dumbass,
>>>
>>> Salbutamol, 1994.

>> In which year Riis admits he was using Epo

>
> Gewiss made a ton of progress that year. Just like Telekom would
> in following years.
>
> In 1994 I don't believe EPO was a banned substance yet. I'm not
> sure when that came, 1996?



No, 1990

Benjo
 
C

Curtis L. Russell

Guest
On Fri, 25 May 2007 20:30:47 +0200, "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:

>New rule, proposed long ago - you did nothing wrong? Cast the first stone.
>[notes to rule] - check your memory really really closely, first.


OK, so I did a few things wrong. OTOH, I find as I grow older, I have
better reasons for doing what I did when I was young.

With a little bit of luck and a couple more 7-CD set self-realization
courses from California, I will be fully justified by the time I die.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...