Bike lanes in MA, dangerous bike lanes and a possible news story



Recently I engaged in a conversation over at ne.transport regarding
some inadequate bike lanes in the Newburyport, MA area. Shortly after
posting my reply, I got an email from a Boston area reporter. I don't
want to copy-paste the exact email in the interest of privacy, but the
gist was basically that she read my post and she's "heard other
cyclists complain of useless/dangerous bike lanes". She wanted to
know if there were any others that stand out as particularly
dangerous, stating that it may make a good news story for them if
so.

This seems like a good chance to try to get some public awareness, so
I figured I'd bounce the concept off of some other cyclists before
replying to her.

Link to the thread: http://tinyurl.com/2bw4od
Non-tiny link:
http://groups.google.com/group/ne.t...d71a8e070ab/2537a72c21e4603e#2537a72c21e4603e
 
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> writes:

> Recently I engaged in a conversation over at ne.transport regarding
> some inadequate bike lanes in the Newburyport, MA area. Shortly after
> posting my reply, I got an email from a Boston area reporter. I don't
> want to copy-paste the exact email in the interest of privacy, but the
> gist was basically that she read my post and she's "heard other
> cyclists complain of useless/dangerous bike lanes". She wanted to
> know if there were any others that stand out as particularly
> dangerous, stating that it may make a good news story for them if
> so.
>
> This seems like a good chance to try to get some public awareness, so
> I figured I'd bounce the concept off of some other cyclists before
> replying to her.


We've had a few dangerous lanes, but these were installed many years
before the current design standards were developed. The main issue
was a lane that was too narrow to safely pass a parked car - an
opening door could completely block the lane.

One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone messed
up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the gutter pan,
and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up with a crack
parallel to the direction of travel, so you need enough clearance from
that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane while not getting too
close to the gutter pan. That lane was removed and is now back after
some major road improvements that eliminated the problem. A few
people complained about the bike lane being removed, but removing it
was the only reasonable decision, given the liability risk of having
a substandard design.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Recently I engaged in a conversation over at ne.transport regarding
> some inadequate bike lanes in the Newburyport, MA area. Shortly after
> posting my reply, I got an email from a Boston area reporter. I don't
> want to copy-paste the exact email in the interest of privacy, but the
> gist was basically that she read my post and she's "heard other
> cyclists complain of useless/dangerous bike lanes". She wanted to
> know if there were any others that stand out as particularly
> dangerous, stating that it may make a good news story for them if
> so.
>
> This seems like a good chance to try to get some public awareness, so
> I figured I'd bounce the concept off of some other cyclists before
> replying to her.
>
> Link to the thread: http://tinyurl.com/2bw4od


The Globe recently did a very strange story recently about a popular
multi-use path in Eastern Mass, the Minuteman. The headline was about "bike
path rage," though the story only cited one actual "rage" incident that was
two years old. Then lots of quotes about how crowded the path is and how
cyclists and joggers and skaters and eveybody have to get along--not the
same thing, but put in a context that suggested the people quioting were
"responding" to the rage "problem."

The story was the top story of the Sunday paper a few months ago.

I'm not sure what that was about, but I hope this reporter does a better job
on bike lanes, which can kill people if done badly. There are some very bad
ones in Cambridge.
 
On Aug 15, 10:47 am, "OughtFour" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm not sure what that was about, but I hope this reporter does a better job
> on bike lanes, which can kill people if done badly. There are some very bad
> ones in Cambridge.


'Can kill people?' I'm no fan of bike lanes, but to call the poorly
designed ones deadly is pretty damn silly.

Got any examples of bike lanes killing people?

Robert
 
On Aug 15, 9:50 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Recently I engaged in a conversation over at ne.transport regarding
> some inadequate bike lanes in the Newburyport, MA area. Shortly after
> posting my reply, I got an email from a Boston area reporter. I don't
> want to copy-paste the exact email in the interest of privacy, but the
> gist was basically that she read my post and she's "heard other
> cyclists complain of useless/dangerous bike lanes". She wanted to
> know if there were any others that stand out as particularly
> dangerous, stating that it may make a good news story for them if
> so.
>
> This seems like a good chance to try to get some public awareness, so
> I figured I'd bounce the concept off of some other cyclists before
> replying to her.
>
> Link to the thread: http://tinyurl.com/2bw4od
> Non-tiny link:http://groups.google.com/group/ne.transportation/browse_thread/thread...


Dear Dan,

You can scroll back through monthly pictures with captions of
exquisite British bicycle road and path mis-design here:

http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/August2007.htm

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
In rec.bicycles.misc [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 15, 10:47 am, "OughtFour" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what that was about, but I hope this reporter does a better job
>> on bike lanes, which can kill people if done badly. There are some very bad
>> ones in Cambridge.

>
> 'Can kill people?' I'm no fan of bike lanes, but to call the poorly
> designed ones deadly is pretty damn silly.
>
> Got any examples of bike lanes killing people?


http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/cambridge/doorzone/laird1.htm

Classic bike lane as car-door lane fatality.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith.
-- Albert Einstein
 
> On Aug 15, 9:50 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Recently I engaged in a conversation over at ne.transport regarding
>> some inadequate bike lanes in the Newburyport, MA area. Shortly after
>> posting my reply, I got an email from a Boston area reporter. I don't
>> want to copy-paste the exact email in the interest of privacy, but the
>> gist was basically that she read my post and she's "heard other
>> cyclists complain of useless/dangerous bike lanes". She wanted to
>> know if there were any others that stand out as particularly
>> dangerous, stating that it may make a good news story for them if
>> so.
>>
>> This seems like a good chance to try to get some public awareness, so
>> I figured I'd bounce the concept off of some other cyclists before
>> replying to her.
>>
>> Link to the thread: http://tinyurl.com/2bw4od
>> Non-tiny link:http://groups.google.com/group/ne.transportation/browse_thread/thread...


[email protected] wrote:
> You can scroll back through monthly pictures with captions of
> exquisite British bicycle road and path mis-design here:
> http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/August2007.htm


That's precious!
Hadn't noticed the archive on my earlier visit.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On 15 Aug 2007 09:20:11 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
wrote:


>One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone messed
>up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the gutter pan,
>and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up with a crack
>parallel to the direction of travel, so you need enough clearance from
>that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane while not getting too
>close to the gutter pan.


What is a gutter pan?
--
JT
****************************
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:35:54 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 15 Aug 2007 09:20:11 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
>wrote:
>
>
>>One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone messed
>>up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the gutter pan,
>>and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up with a crack
>>parallel to the direction of travel, so you need enough clearance from
>>that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane while not getting too
>>close to the gutter pan.

>
>What is a gutter pan?


Dear John,

http://motorman.org/wp-content/gutterpan_02.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Aug 15, 12:26 pm, Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/cambridge/doorzone/laird1.htm
>>
>>Classic bike lane as car-door lane fatality.

>
>
> "Classic?" Really?
>
> Are you suggesting that people don't ride in the door zone on streets
> with no bike lanes?
>


Of course they do. But they are not lured to ride there, unlike as with
door zone bike lanes, which also may be mandatory to use. And, if not
mandatory by law, motorist coercion compels their use.

Wayne
 
>> [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
>>> One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone messed
>>> up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the gutter pan,
>>> and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up with a crack
>>> parallel to the direction of travel, so you need enough clearance from
>>> that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane while not getting too
>>> close to the gutter pan.


> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> What is a gutter pan?


[email protected] wrote:
> http://motorman.org/wp-content/gutterpan_02.jpg


The dippy condescending white paint logo makes it 'desirable', right?
We'd never willingly ride over that **** otherwise. With the logo we're
supposed to persevere and be grateful for the indulgence of the Powers
That Be deigning to give us Our Own Lane with our own tax dollars??
--
Andrew Muzi, who rode on a Bike Path . . . once.
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Just got the latest issue of "American Bicyclist," published by the
League of [same], and it contains a photo of a line of helmeted
cyclists carefully riding single file...in the door zone adjacent to a
line of parked cars.

Nice.

--Karen D.
life member, not ready to resign so I stay out of bike lanes
 
A Muzi wrote:
>>> [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
>>>> One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone
>>>> messed up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the
>>>> gutter pan, and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up
>>>> with a crack parallel to the direction of travel, so you need
>>>> enough clearance from that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane
>>>> while not getting too close to the gutter pan.

>
>> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> What is a gutter pan?

>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> http://motorman.org/wp-content/gutterpan_02.jpg

>
> The dippy condescending white paint logo makes it 'desirable', right?
> We'd never willingly ride over that **** otherwise. With the logo
> we're supposed to persevere and be grateful for the indulgence of the
> Powers That Be deigning to give us Our Own Lane with our own tax
> dollars??


JFTR I've never seen a bike lane like that around my area. (I think there
might be a few cases that used to be and have been fixed quite nicely,
however.)
 
On Aug 15, 7:41 pm, Wayne Pein <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Are you suggesting that people don't ride in the door zone on streets
> > with no bike lanes?

>
> Of course they do. But they are not lured to ride there, unlike as with
> door zone bike lanes, which also may be mandatory to use. And, if not
> mandatory by law, motorist coercion compels their use.


Even if one feels compelled to ride in the bike lane, it doesn't mean
you have to ride in the door zone, because some portion of the lane is
outside the DZ. I agree that NO portion of any bike lane should be in
a door zone (and in places like Seattle and Denver new bike lanes are
outside of the doorzones in their entirety). It is not a bike lane
stripe that 'lures' people to ride in the DZ, but ignorance about the
DZ. This is shown by the simple fact that some people ride in the DZ
whether there is a 'door zone bike lane' or not.

If doorings are what concerns you, you should advocate for bike lane
striping that compels riders to remain outside of the DZ (like the
striping of new lanes in Seattle and Denver), rather than leave the
street unstriped and leave unsuspecting novices to their own devices.
So is it really doorings of unsuspecting cyclists that has you
concerned, Wayne?

Robert
 
John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> writes:

> On 15 Aug 2007 09:20:11 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
> wrote:
>
>
> >One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone messed
> >up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the gutter pan,
> >and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up with a crack
> >parallel to the direction of travel, so you need enough clearance from
> >that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane while not getting too
> >close to the gutter pan.

>
> What is a gutter pan?


The concrete area on the side of some roads that allows rainwater
to run to a drain. The asphalt ends where the cutter pan
starts. We have these in our area. When installed, the connection
is flat and smooth. After a decade or so, weathering causes a gap
between the two, parallel to the direction of travel. It's the sort
of thing that can trap a wheel, if not completely, at least enough to
require a quick correction to get out of it.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> writes:

> A Muzi wrote:
> >>> [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> >>>> One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone
> >>>> messed up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the
> >>>> gutter pan, and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up
> >>>> with a crack parallel to the direction of travel, so you need
> >>>> enough clearance from that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane
> >>>> while not getting too close to the gutter pan.

> >
> >> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> What is a gutter pan?

> >
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> http://motorman.org/wp-content/gutterpan_02.jpg

> >
> > The dippy condescending white paint logo makes it 'desirable', right?
> > We'd never willingly ride over that **** otherwise. With the logo
> > we're supposed to persevere and be grateful for the indulgence of the
> > Powers That Be deigning to give us Our Own Lane with our own tax
> > dollars??

>
> JFTR I've never seen a bike lane like that around my area. (I think there
> might be a few cases that used to be and have been fixed quite nicely,
> however.)


FYI (I thought I pointed this out but it isn't in the quoted text),
the lane I mentioned was removed shortly after the bike lane stripe
was painted, and re-installed after the problem was fixed (either by
cutting back the gutter pan or by restriping the other lanes so the
bike lane could be put in in accordance with state standards.

We have a few very old bike lanes that are a bit two narrow, being
some of the first installed in California, so they went in before the
design standards existed. These are being fixed over time.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
A Muzi <[email protected]> writes:

> >> [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> >>> One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone messed
> >>> up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the gutter pan,
> >>> and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up with a crack
> >>> parallel to the direction of travel, so you need enough clearance from
> >>> that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane while not getting too
> >>> close to the gutter pan.

>
> > John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> What is a gutter pan?

>
> [email protected] wrote:
> > http://motorman.org/wp-content/gutterpan_02.jpg

>
> The dippy condescending white paint logo makes it 'desirable', right?
> We'd never willingly ride over that **** otherwise. With the logo
> we're supposed to persevere and be grateful for the indulgence of the
> Powers That Be deigning to give us Our Own Lane with our own tax
> dollars??


This is fundamentally a silly statment - the picture shows a bike lane
stripe to the left of a gutter pan. From the picture, I can't tell
the width of the asphault in the bike lane - to meet standards, it
should be 3 feet in width or more. The logo is a standard symbol that
is required every so often. It is not to impress bicyclists - drivers
are supposed to stay out of bike lanes unless turning across them
(in which case they must be within 200 feet of their turn before
merging into the lane, yielding to any bicycles already in the lane).
Similarly there are rules governing bicyclists. So the logo is
there so that you don't have guess what kind of lane it is by
being able to tell a 3 inch shoulder stripe from a 5 inch bike lane
stripe (both solid white stripes) reliably.

There is no requirement that the logo has to be totally on the
asphault.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
On Aug 15, 7:42 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:35:54 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 15 Aug 2007 09:20:11 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
> >wrote:

>
> >>One lane was installed about 10 years ago by mistake (someone messed
> >>up the design) - it put the lane stripe too close to the gutter pan,
> >>and as the pavement deteriorates over time, you end up with a crack
> >>parallel to the direction of travel, so you need enough clearance from
> >>that so that a cyclist can ride in the lane while not getting too
> >>close to the gutter pan.

>
> >What is a gutter pan?

>
> Dear John,
>
> http://motorman.org/wp-content/gutterpan_02.jpg
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fog


Only high skilled cyclists can ride on this kind lane.