Braking the Fixie

[Peter Cole]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:

> Hey, that was what I was going to write!
>
> The smugness of the "hip" makes one happy to see them ticketed.
>

How do you know they're smug? You obviously are.

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

"landotter" the Swede wrote:
> ...Or
> my favorite: pass on a blind recreation path corner--something that
> you'd not think of doing in a car--but when you're on a bike and the
> Hoff's greatest pop hits are blasting in your ear buds--it makes
> perfect sense.

Denigrate USian culture all you want, but one of those thing would only
happen in Europe.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful



--
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[Peter Cole]

[email protected] wrote:

> The ability to stop a bicycle with a rear brake for aggressive riding
> is ludicrous.
>

And yet it was standard issue when we were kids.

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <YYqoi.135509$1i1.83958@pd7urf3no>,
> "Dave Mayer" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The downside for me is that I had bought a heavily discounted track frame a
>> while back with the intention of building up into a single-speed bike - yes,
>> with two good hand brakes and a freehub. Now I have to sit on this project
>> perhaps for several years until this fad withers.
>
> I do not see why. Put the brakes on. Who will notice?
> A: the no brake crowd. Consider it a community service.
> The NBC won't be able to handle somebody more different
> than they are. If you are to be a slave to fashion,
> make it your fashion.

Heck, I would put a sign on the bike - "This bicycle equipped with
caliper brakes".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
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[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

J. Taylor wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:00:40 GMT, Dave Mayer wrote:
>
>> The downside for me is that I had bought a heavily discounted track frame a
>> while back with the intention of building up into a single-speed bike - yes,
>> with two good hand brakes and a freehub. Now I have to sit on this project
>> perhaps for several years until this fad withers.
>
> Why?
>
> You will not get a ticket.

I thought the concern was not looking like a crowd follower?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
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[Peter Cole]

Dave Mayer wrote:

> The downside for me is that I had bought a heavily discounted track frame a
> while back with the intention of building up into a single-speed bike - yes,
> with two good hand brakes and a freehub. Now I have to sit on this project
> perhaps for several years until this fad withers.

How could anyone tell you didn't have a geared hub? Besides, I don't
think SS track bikes, besides being an oxymoron, are part of the fad.

 

[Peter Cole]

Michael Press wrote:

> I was on my drop bar utility bicycle in street clothes
> with groceries in the panniers. I came up on a red
> light at 20 kph and put on the brakes. I hear a shouted
> `Oh!' behind me. It is a full kit kiddie who had
> silently got up behind and did not expect me to stop. I
> said `What do you mean "Oh!" He would not answer, I
> kept asking. He never owned up, the jerk, but tried to
> abuse me for my pains, the asshole.

My favorite was the guy I found drafting me in the dark because he had
no light -- I mean if he had asked...

Is was dark so I could see how he was dressed, wasn't sure how superior
I was supposed to feel, bummer.
>

 

[Peter Cole]

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <YYqoi.135509$1i1.83958@pd7urf3no>,
> "Dave Mayer" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The downside for me is that I had bought a heavily discounted track frame a
>> while back with the intention of building up into a single-speed bike - yes,
>> with two good hand brakes and a freehub. Now I have to sit on this project
>> perhaps for several years until this fad withers.
>
> I do not see why. Put the brakes on. Who will notice?
> A: the no brake crowd. Consider it a community service.
> The NBC won't be able to handle somebody more different
> than they are. If you are to be a slave to fashion,
> make it your fashion.

I hate leg braking anyway, it feels like leg breaking (or at least knee).

Besides, it's fixers, not fixies, fixies are for girlies. No brake
fixers are for people who are bored with living pain free.

 

[[email protected]]

Peter Cole writes:

>> The ability to stop a bicycle with a rear brake for aggressive riding
>> is ludicrous.

> And yet it was standard issue when we were kids.

I don't believe you descended any mountain roads or exceeded 15mph in
city traffic. Please don't skip the qualifications when making such
suggestions.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Bob Taylor wrote:
> "Paul J. Berg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Sleek and simple, fixies have become popular with everyone from couriers
>> to a hipper sect of the bike commuter set.
> Hipper than who?
>
> These people discussed in this article in the newspaper of record must think
> they are hip:
> http://tinyurl.com/279hov

This article can be summed up as "We better than you are, because we are
part of the 'in' fixie group, and you're not".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
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[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

"Spread Eagle®" (who?) anonymously wrote:
> On Jul 21, 8:16 am, [email protected] (Paul J. Berg) wrote:
>
>> "A large number of people don't understand how many fixies there are and
>> how safe they are," says Atkinson, the original sponsor of the bill.
>
>
> Those of us who learned to ride in the 50s know that pedal brakes are
> far better than those flimsy caliper things controlled on the
> handlebar. Pedal brakes can flat-out shut down the real wheel, so
> much so that you can easily skid and leave rubber on the road if
> that's something you want to do. Try that with calipers.

It is easy to lock up the rear wheel on a bicycle with properly designed
and adjusted caliper, cantilever (including direct pull) and disc
(mechanical and hydraulic). Don't generalize **** equipment and/or setup
to proper systems.

> As if.
> Calipers don't have anything like that kind of stopping power.

Skidding the rear wheel is NOT stopping power - the maximum deceleration
possible is typically less than 0.3g. Compare that to a front brake,
which can generate deceleration on the order of 0.6 to 0.7g.

> Plus the front wheel caliper brake is dangerous. Im[p]edes steering
> control AND can throw you head over heels.

No the front brake does not impede steering control, and if the rider
goes over the bars, it is due to improper upper body bracing. Don't
blame the brake for poor riding technique.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
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[Chalo]

On Jul 21, 10:38 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> If you're so hip to not be able to install a $10 front caliper
> at the co-op--you get what's coming to ya. I hope they strengthen the
> law. IMHO all adult bikes should be required to have two brakes--in
> that case, a fixed gear may count as one.

Man, I don't know what the beef is here. If the problem is unsafe
driving/riding, why not deal with that and not tell folks what
equipment they are or are not qualified to use appropriately?

Last I heard, skateboards and inline skates didn't have any brake as
effective as a fixed wheel. Millions of folks got their first taste
of vehicular cycling on coaster braked bikes that were likely to throw
their chains. Heck, America originally got paved highways to meet the
demands of fixed-gear riders who couldn't brake worth a damn. None of
the above are/were as crazy, reckless, and dangerous as the jackhole
who drives a 7,000 pound Hummer, all by himself, three miles to work--
regardless of how many brakes he's packing or how circumspectly he
drives.

As we speak, the neighborhood kids are out fooling around on my adult-
sized Big Wheel trike-- fixed, no brake-- and they are having a whale
of a time. They should not be subject to a $100 fine for that. They
aren't doing anything they wouldn't be doing on two-wheelers with
brakes. And if it's OK for the kids to figure out for themselves what
circumstances are appropriate for them to ride "fixed" in the street,
then why can't adults be trusted with the same judgment call?

I have directly observed that 29 x 2.35" wheels and tires are safer,
more stable, and more capable on ordinary streets than smaller wheels
and tires. Since that's my preferred choice, maybe I should promote
legislation that sets a minimum tire diameter of 28" and a minimum
tire width of 1.75" as a legal requirement. It is safer, after all.
And it's irresponsible to ride 23mm tires in the street-- I certainly
don't want to be tarred with the bad reputation earned by skinny-tire
riders. Just ban them, I say.

Chalo

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Peter Cole wrote:
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>
>> Hey, that was what I was going to write!
>>
>> The smugness of the "hip" makes one happy to see them ticketed.
>>
>
> How do you know they're smug?

These types are smug because they are part of the "in" group that
denigrates outsiders for not "getting it".

> You obviously are.

[Yawn] Your smugdar is in need of recalibration.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Peter Cole]

[email protected] wrote:
> Peter Cole writes:
>
>>> The ability to stop a bicycle with a rear brake for aggressive riding
>>> is ludicrous.
>
>> And yet it was standard issue when we were kids.
>
> I don't believe you descended any mountain roads or exceeded 15mph in
> city traffic. Please don't skip the qualifications when making such
> suggestions.

I didn't mean to suggest anything, other than perhaps the ludicrous
quality of our kids bikes. While we didn't do the things you mention, we
did have hills, and we did bump (sometimes literally) into the limits of
rear wheel only braking. Of course, even the caliper brakes on the steel
rims of that era had issues.

The thing I have never been able to understand about the brake-less
crowd is how they keep their tire from wearing out, given the skid
stopping they favor. The old balloon tires had thick tread, we used to
lock them up for fun.

I like my fixed gear, but I often use it in snow where having 2 brakes
is useful to make best use of the available traction and leg braking
works when wet rims don't.

 

[Bill Shatzer]

still me wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 08:16:22 -0700, [email protected] (Paul J. Berg)
> wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>"After it initially went through, I had a lot of reservations," Burdick
>>said in an interview with Jonathan Maus, editor of Bikeportland. "My own
>>daughter (who works at River City Bicycles in Portland) rides fixies on
>>the velodrome. She jumped on me pretty hard and said there were a lot of
>>people on fixies who really don't know what they're doing, so changing
>>the standard across the board would not be a good idea."

>>River City Bicycles sells one type of fixed-gear bicycle without brakes.

> <snip>

> The solution is clear! Arrest the people selling those fixies without
> brakes for causing this problem.

No more than the folks selling motorcross and off-road motorcycles which
lack all sorts of things[1] required for legal street operation.

[1] mirrors, head lights, turn signals, mufflers, etc.

> I'm sure that right after her
> daughter gets arrested, Sen Burdick will have a change of heart.

Why so? They're perfectly legal to ride at the velodrome. And that's
where she rides 'em, apparently.

It's only when folks take 'em out on the public highways and byways that
there's a problem.

Peace and justice,

 

[Paul J. Berg]

Spread Eagle® wrote:
> On Jul 21, 8:16 am, [email protected] (Paul J. Berg) wrote:
>
> > "A large number of people don't understand how many fixies there are and
> > how safe they are," says Atkinson, the original sponsor of the bill.
>
>
> Those of us who learned to ride in the 50s know that pedal brakes are
> far better than those flimsy caliper things controlled on the
> handlebar. Pedal brakes can flat-out shut down the real wheel, so
> much so that you can easily skid and leave rubber on the road if
> that's something you want to do. Try that with calipers. As if.
> Calipers don't have anything like that kind of stopping power.
>
> Plus the front wheel caliper brake is dangerous. Imedes steering
> control AND can throw you head over heels.

I am an old fart baby boomer too.

The bicycles in the 1950's had coaster brakes. The fixie has no
mechanical brake at all, just the leg strength of rider to stop the
forward momentum.

The first bike I had with dual caliper brakes, I make the mistake once
of hitting only the front brake, and the bike flipped end over end.
Luckily, I was thrown onto a grass parking strip, whilst the bike
tumble down the street. From that point on, I would always carry
items in my left hand instead of my right.

`

 

[Peter Cole]

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, that was what I was going to write!
>>>
>>> The smugness of the "hip" makes one happy to see them ticketed.
>>>
>>
>> How do you know they're smug?
>
> These types are smug because they are part of the "in" group that
> denigrates outsiders for not "getting it".

& you know this how? Have you been denigrated?

>
>> You obviously are.
>
> [Yawn] Your smugdar is in need of recalibration.

That's what it sounded like above (schadenfreude & all that).

 

[landotter]

On Jul 21, 3:50 pm, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 21, 10:38 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If you're so hip to not be able to install a $10 front caliper
> > at the co-op--you get what's coming to ya. I hope they strengthen the
> > law. IMHO all adult bikes should be required to have two brakes--in
> > that case, a fixed gear may count as one.
>
> Man, I don't know what the beef is here. If the problem is unsafe
> driving/riding, why not deal with that and not tell folks what
> equipment they are or are not qualified to use appropriately?

On Jul 21, 3:50 pm, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:


So we should let stick shift cars on the road since they can engine
brake? How far you wanna take this? People may choose from a wide
variety of braking devices--but to suggest that requiring them is
unfair--is absurd. You some sort of dope smoking libertarian?

>
> Last I heard, skateboards and inline skates didn't have any brake as
> effective as a fixed wheel.

Does your locality recognize them as road legal?

> Millions of folks got their first taste
> of vehicular cycling on coaster braked bikes that were likely to throw
> their chains.

Point?

> Heck, America originally got paved highways to meet the
> demands of fixed-gear riders who couldn't brake worth a damn.

So the shittiness of old technology justifies the stupid choices of
today?

>None of
> the above are/were as crazy, reckless, and dangerous as the jackhole
> who drives a 7,000 pound Hummer, all by himself, three miles to work--
> regardless of how many brakes he's packing or how circumspectly he
> drives.
>

The "Hummer Argument" is up there with Godwin's Law. Most of us that
live in urban areas see insane brakeless behavior every single day. I
see Hummers every day, but tacky as they are, it's rare that I see one
blow an intersection at 30mph.


> As we speak, the neighborhood kids are out fooling around on my adult-
> sized Big Wheel trike-- fixed, no brake-- and they are having a whale
> of a time. They should not be subject to a $100 fine for that. They
> aren't doing anything they wouldn't be doing on two-wheelers with
> brakes.

Are they riding it at 20mph?

>And if it's OK for the kids to figure out for themselves what
> circumstances are appropriate for them to ride "fixed" in the street,
> then why can't adults be trusted with the same judgment call?

You're comparing a Big Wheel toy to a proper bike. Bikes are not toys,
they are vehicles.

>
> I have directly observed that 29 x 2.35" wheels and tires are safer,
> more stable, and more capable on ordinary streets than smaller wheels
> and tires. Since that's my preferred choice, maybe I should promote
> legislation that sets a minimum tire diameter of 28" and a minimum
> tire width of 1.75" as a legal requirement. It is safer, after all.
> And it's irresponsible to ride 23mm tires in the street-- I certainly
> don't want to be tarred with the bad reputation earned by skinny-tire
> riders. Just ban them, I say.

I see several incidents of cringe worthy fixed riding in my
neighborhood every day. I've seen guys with two broken femurs because
they couldn't stop. I've seen fat guys with Madones and pinch flats.
There's a difference.

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Paul J. Berg wrote:
>
> Spread Eagle® wrote:
>> On Jul 21, 8:16 am, [email protected] (Paul J. Berg) wrote:
>>
>>> "A large number of people don't understand how many fixies there are and
>>> how safe they are," says Atkinson, the original sponsor of the bill.
>>
>> Those of us who learned to ride in the 50s know that pedal brakes are
>> far better than those flimsy caliper things controlled on the
>> handlebar. Pedal brakes can flat-out shut down the real wheel, so
>> much so that you can easily skid and leave rubber on the road if
>> that's something you want to do. Try that with calipers. As if.
>> Calipers don't have anything like that kind of stopping power.
>>
>> Plus the front wheel caliper brake is dangerous. Imedes steering
>> control AND can throw you head over heels.
>
> I am an old fart baby boomer too.
>
> The bicycles in the 1950's had coaster brakes. The fixie has no
> mechanical brake at all, just the leg strength of rider to stop the
> forward momentum.
>
> The first bike I had with dual caliper brakes, I make the mistake once
> of hitting only the front brake, and the bike flipped end over end.
> Luckily, I was thrown onto a grass parking strip, whilst the bike
> tumble down the street. From that point on, I would always carry
> items in my left hand instead of my right.

See <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html>.

Note to Ozark Bicycle: Baaaaahhhh!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Peter Cole wrote:
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey, that was what I was going to write!
>>>>
>>>> The smugness of the "hip" makes one happy to see them ticketed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How do you know they're smug?
>>
>> These types are smug because they are part of the "in" group that
>> denigrates outsiders for not "getting it".
>
> & you know this how? Have you been denigrated?

I have been around groups like this enough [1] to know that denigration
of others who don't "get it" is a main topic of conversation.

>>> You obviously are.
>>
>> [Yawn] Your smugdar is in need of recalibration.
>
> That's what it sounded like above (schadenfreude & all that).

When did "schadenfreude” and "smug" become synonyms?

[1] They often like to talk loudly so others can "benefit" from their
superiority.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com