Braking the Fixie

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Spread Eagle(R) <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jul 21, 8:16 am, [email protected] (Paul J. Berg) wrote:
>
> > "A large number of people don't understand how many fixies there
> > are and how safe they are," says Atkinson, the original sponsor of
> > the bill.
>
>
> Those of us who learned to ride in the 50s know that pedal brakes are
> far better than those flimsy caliper things controlled on the
> handlebar. Pedal brakes can flat-out shut down the real wheel, so
> much so that you can easily skid and leave rubber on the road if
> that's something you want to do. Try that with calipers. As if.
> Calipers don't have anything like that kind of stopping power.

You obviously haven't used a rim brake since the 50s. Locking up the
rear wheel is no problem whatsoever with modern caliper brakes,
cantilever brakes, V-brakes or disc brakes.

> Plus the front wheel caliper brake is dangerous. Imedes steering
> control AND can throw you head over heels.

Also showing that you haven't used one in a while.

On the other hand, with only a coaster brake you have no brakes at all
if the chain snaps. Bad plan. The same problem applies to fixed
wheels, BTW. You need brakes on both wheels.

 

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>
>> Or are you one of the
>> hip & smug crowd, so you never noticed?
>
> I like to think I'm hip, doesn't everybody?

Personally, I'm so hip I can barely see over my pelvis.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
"Never draw fire; it irritates the people around you."

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:57:10 -0700, Dane Buson <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> Or are you one of the
>>> hip & smug crowd, so you never noticed?
>>
>> I like to think I'm hip, doesn't everybody?
>
>Personally, I'm so hip I can barely see over my pelvis.

LOL

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jul 21, 4:30 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Paul J. Berg wrote:
>
> > Spread Eagle® wrote:
> >> On Jul 21, 8:16 am, [email protected] (Paul J. Berg) wrote:
>
> >>> "A large number of people don't understand how many fixies there are and
> >>> how safe they are," says Atkinson, the original sponsor of the bill.
>
> >> Those of us who learned to ride in the 50s know that pedal brakes are
> >> far better than those flimsy caliper things controlled on the
> >> handlebar. Pedal brakes can flat-out shut down the real wheel, so
> >> much so that you can easily skid and leave rubber on the road if
> >> that's something you want to do. Try that with calipers. As if.
> >> Calipers don't have anything like that kind of stopping power.
>
> >> Plus the front wheel caliper brake is dangerous. Imedes steering
> >> control AND can throw you head over heels.
>
> > I am an old fart baby boomer too.
>
> > The bicycles in the 1950's had coaster brakes. The fixie has no
> > mechanical brake at all, just the leg strength of rider to stop the
> > forward momentum.
>
> > The first bike I had with dual caliper brakes, I make the mistake once
> > of hitting only the front brake, and the bike flipped end over end.
> > Luckily, I was thrown onto a grass parking strip, whilst the bike
> > tumble down the street. From that point on, I would always carry
> > items in my left hand instead of my right.
>
> See <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html>.
>
> Note to Ozark Bicycle: Baaaaahhhh!
>
>

Sheep-like behavior noted.

 

[Lobby Dosser]

Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:

> In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> Or are you one of the
>>> hip & smug crowd, so you never noticed?
>>
>> I like to think I'm hip, doesn't everybody?
>
> Personally, I'm so hip I can barely see over my pelvis.
>

I'm so hip I have to use a mirror to see my pelvis.

 

[John Thompson]

On 2007-07-22, Dave Mayer <[email protected]> wrote:

> However, the fixed gear 'thing' is both trendy and outright stupid. Riding
> a bike with no brakes (off track) is plain suicidal.

Fixed gear /= no brakes. My fixed gear bike has brakes. Two of them. One
for the front wheel and one for the back. They even say "Dura-Ace" on
them! But I seldom use them except for panic stops.

> And removing the ability to freewheel kills one of the key pleasures
> in riding a bike: coasting.

I thought I would miss coasting more than I do. But I live in a fairly
flat area -- maximum elevation change is < 200' for virtually all the
riding I do. Fixed gear works fine in this terrain.

--

John ([email protected])

 

[Lobby Dosser]

Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:36:39 -0000, landotter <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>> Well he must have seen them coming if they were that close, why not
>>> stop first & let them by?
>>
>>Because they don't have the right of way. I don't drive much, but if
>>I'm at a stop sign and there's a bike coming as if not to slow down, I
>>hit the gas, and they better hope their brakes are dialed in. I won't
>>deliberately hit someone, but I have no problem letting people scare
>>the **** out of themselves.
>
> Cars don't make people crazy?
>
> Would you do the same thing if you were on a bike?
>
> Or would you have rolled through the stop sign, adjusted your speed
> and either gone in front or behind the approaching cyclist without
> causing them to brake unnecessarily, let alone panic stop.

Panic stop? At a visible stop sign? Brake unnecessarily at a stop sign?
What you do at stop signs is STOP.

 

[John Thompson]

On 2007-07-21, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:56:49 -0400, Peter Cole
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The thing I have never been able to understand about the brake-less
>>crowd is how they keep their tire from wearing out, given the skid
>>stopping they favor.

> They calculate the number of skid patches they get with various gear
> combinations and can sometimes increase that number by moving the
> tire on the rim. That and carry duct tape.

Use a prime number tooth count on both chainring and cog and you'll
spread the wear evenly enough without having to reposition the chain.


--

John ([email protected])

 

[Paul J. Berg]

Lobby Dosser wrote:
> Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> >>
> >>> Or are you one of the
> >>> hip & smug crowd, so you never noticed?
> >>
> >> I like to think I'm hip, doesn't everybody?
> >
> > Personally, I'm so hip I can barely see over my pelvis.
> >
>
> I'm so hip I have to use a mirror to see my pelvis.

I think Dane and Lobby are mistaking a beer belly for a hip.

My 2006 New Year's Resolution was to loose weight. I lost 40 lbs. It
is hard, but I have kept the weight off. I am proud to say, I'm able
to once again see my belt buckle without the aid of a mirror.

`

 

[landotter]

On Jul 21, 5:27 pm, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:36:39 -0000, landotter <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >> Well he must have seen them coming if they were that close, why not stop
> >> first & let them by?
>
> >Because they don't have the right of way. I don't drive much, but if
> >I'm at a stop sign and there's a bike coming as if not to slow down, I
> >hit the gas, and they better hope their brakes are dialed in. I won't
> >deliberately hit someone, but I have no problem letting people scare
> >the **** out of themselves.
>
> Cars don't make people crazy?

That's not crazy. If I'm at a four way stop first, I take the right
of way. If you want to assume that I'm going to yield to you when you
don't have the right of way--that's crazy. I'm not going to drive into
you, but if it's a distance where a person can panic brake, I go
ahead. My car was paid for 10 years ago, so I welcome people to taco
wheels against it.

>
> Would you do the same thing if you were on a bike?

Yes, and I've caused an idiot to lose some skin when he wrecked in a
panic. I rolled up to the stop sign at 5mph, saw a guy not even
thinking about braking flying perpendicular to me, so I took my right
of way while yelling "YO!" He lost control and fell. Tough ****. He
could have modulated his speed and ceded to my right of way, but he
decided to take a stupid risk. No sympathy here.

 

[Lobby Dosser]

[email protected] (Paul J. Berg) wrote:

> News article from Willamette Week (Portland, Oregon) - July 11, 2007
>
> After the 2007 Oregon Legislature failed to fix the "fixies" law, the
> tickets continue to fly in Portland.

This topic is becoming an Apprentice "Self Serve Gasoline".

 

[[email protected]]

Chalo Colina writes:

>> If you're so hip to not be able to install a $10 front caliper at
>> the co-op--you get what's coming to ya. I hope they strengthen the
>> law. IMHO all adult bikes should be required to have two
>> brakes--in that case, a fixed gear may count as one.

> Man, I don't know what the beef is here. If the problem is unsafe
> driving/riding, why not deal with that and not tell folks what
> equipment they are or are not qualified to use appropriately?

> Last I heard, skateboards and in-line skates didn't have any brake
> as effective as a fixed wheel. Millions of folks got their first
> taste of vehicular cycling on coaster braked bikes that were likely
> to throw their chains. Heck, America originally got paved highways
> to meet the demands of fixed-gear riders who couldn't brake worth a
> damn. None of the above are/were as crazy, reckless, and dangerous
> as the jackhole who drives a 7,000 pound Hummer, all by himself,
> three miles to work-- regardless of how many brakes he's packing or
> how circumspectly he drives.

I haven't seen skateboards and in-line skaters mix with sidewalk or
street traffic at speeds above 10mph in urban locations. Even
distance runners at full speed would be a hazard doing that. In
contrast the no-brake bicyclists engage in their machismo in dense
traffic at speeds above 15mph. It's all how you do it that counts and
these guys are a hazard.

> As we speak, the neighborhood kids are out fooling around on my
> adult- sized Big Wheel trike-- fixed, no brake-- and they are having
> a whale of a time. They should not be subject to a $100 fine for
> that. They aren't doing anything they wouldn't be doing on
> two-wheelers with brakes. And if it's OK for the kids to figure out
> for themselves what circumstances are appropriate for them to ride
> "fixed" in the street, then why can't adults be trusted with the
> same judgment call?

Well, when they take a header, you might have more than $100 expenses.
Our local high wheel rider has had a few tilts even though he has a
brake.

> I have directly observed that 29 x 2.35" wheels and tires are safer,
> more stable, and more capable on ordinary streets than smaller
> wheels and tires. Since that's my preferred choice, maybe I should
> promote legislation that sets a minimum tire diameter of 28" and a
> minimum tire width of 1.75" as a legal requirement. It is safer,
> after all. And it's irresponsible to ride 23mm tires in the
> street-- I certainly don't want to be tarred with the bad reputation
> earned by skinny-tire riders. Just ban them, I say.

Don't be so coy and ridiculous. That's like the guy that suggested
all bicycles on Sand Hill Road ride against traffic after a rider was
hit "from behind". As it turned out, he was hit from the side as he
attempted a U-turn at the top of Sand Hill as many riders do, but
while looking back first.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Jul 21, 4:30 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Paul J. Berg wrote:
>>
>>> Spread Eagle® wrote:
>>>> On Jul 21, 8:16 am, [email protected] (Paul J. Berg) wrote:
>>>>> "A large number of people don't understand how many fixies there are and
>>>>> how safe they are," says Atkinson, the original sponsor of the bill.
>>>> Those of us who learned to ride in the 50s know that pedal brakes are
>>>> far better than those flimsy caliper things controlled on the
>>>> handlebar. Pedal brakes can flat-out shut down the real wheel, so
>>>> much so that you can easily skid and leave rubber on the road if
>>>> that's something you want to do. Try that with calipers. As if.
>>>> Calipers don't have anything like that kind of stopping power.
>>>> Plus the front wheel caliper brake is dangerous. Imedes steering
>>>> control AND can throw you head over heels.
>>> I am an old fart baby boomer too.
>>> The bicycles in the 1950's had coaster brakes. The fixie has no
>>> mechanical brake at all, just the leg strength of rider to stop the
>>> forward momentum.
>>> The first bike I had with dual caliper brakes, I make the mistake once
>>> of hitting only the front brake, and the bike flipped end over end.
>>> Luckily, I was thrown onto a grass parking strip, whilst the bike
>>> tumble down the street. From that point on, I would always carry
>>> items in my left hand instead of my right.
>> See <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html>.
>>
>> Note to Ozark Bicycle: Baaaaahhhh!
>>
> Sheep-like behavior noted.

Put as much useful information on your website as Sheldon has on his,
and it too will get cited in rec.bicycles.*.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[[email protected]]

Paul J. Berg writes:

>>> "A large number of people don't understand how many fixies there
>>> are and how safe they are," says Atkinson, the original sponsor of
>>> the bill.

>> Those of us who learned to ride in the 50s know that pedal brakes
>> are far better than those flimsy caliper things controlled on the
>> handlebar. Pedal brakes can flat-out shut down the real wheel, so
>> much so that you can easily skid and leave rubber on the road if
>> that's something you want to do. Try that with calipers. As if.
>> Calipers don't have anything like that kind of stopping power.

>> Plus the front wheel caliper brake is dangerous. Impedes steering
>> control AND can throw you head over heels.

> I am an old fart baby boomer too.

> The bicycles in the 1950's had coaster brakes. The fixie has no
> mechanical brake at all, just the leg strength of rider to stop the
> forward momentum.

> The first bike I had with dual caliper brakes, I make the mistake
> once of hitting only the front brake, and the bike flipped end over
> end. Luckily, I was thrown onto a grass parking strip, whilst the
> bike tumble down the street. From that point on, I would always
> carry items in my left hand instead of my right.

I wouldn't mention that if I were you. It reeks of ineptness,
especially at that age.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/over-the-bars.html

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Peter Cole writes:

>>>> [1] They often like to talk loudly so others can "benefit" from
>>>> their superiority.

>>> Ah, you've been "indirectly" denigrated. I take it that was
>>> categorical and not personal? How did you know you were in the
>>> category?

>> Have you been paying attention to how people act?

> No, what did they say about me?

>> Or are you one of the hip & smug crowd, so you never noticed?

> I like to think I'm hip, doesn't everybody?

I prefer to see a definition of "hip" before believing that. I sense
that it often goes with driving a jacked up shiny black SUV with 18"
chromed wheels with 12" wide low cross section tires, blackened
windows and 4" dual rumble pipes to go with the tish-boom stereo that
shakes most structures (and cars) near the road.

I don't want to spend time with shallow people who believe they are
what they own (or are in debt for), especially if it is in such bad
taste. Do you drive truck! If you don't, you ain't nowhere.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Peter Cole writes:

>> My current pet peeve is being "waved through" an intersection, on a
>> bike or in a car, when I obviously do NOT have the right of way.
>> I've actually unclipped and dismounted after five long seconds of
>> red-faced frenetic waving on their part. I don't need the damn
>> "favor". It just confuses people. Some people get enormous,
>> throbbing erections from randomly directing traffic this way.

> They're just trying to be nice, Mr. Grumpypuss.

I think you got that wrong. It's a subtle way of saying "You're a
stupid bicyclist, dangerous at any speed. Go ahead, get out of here
and out of my way, even if you don't have the right-of-way."

It's like the guys who won't pass on a slightly curvy mountain road
even on straight sections, on a road that has reasonable shoulders
beyond the lane edge stripe. Even though bicycling on the shoulder,
they won't pass until someone in the car complains, and then make a
pass, regardless of visibility, going to the opposite shoulder to
emphasize what a hazard the bicyclist is. I have witnessed some near
head-on collisions with this routine. Of course it was the bicyclists
fault when you hear the incident recounted by such "bike watchers".

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Peter Cole writes:

>> However, the fixed gear 'thing' is both trendy and outright stupid.
>> Riding a bike with no brakes (off track) is plain suicidal. And
>> removing the ability to freewheel kills one of the key pleasures in
>> riding a bike: coasting.

> So it would seem, but there are a lot of us who greatly prefer fixed
> to single speed, trends or no.

I still think you should define "hip". I think that's what it's all
about.

Jobst Brandt

 

[landotter]

On Jul 21, 9:30 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Peter Cole writes:
> >>>> [1] They often like to talk loudly so others can "benefit" from
> >>>> their superiority.
> >>> Ah, you've been "indirectly" denigrated. I take it that was
> >>> categorical and not personal? How did you know you were in the
> >>> category?
> >> Have you been paying attention to how people act?
> > No, what did they say about me?
> >> Or are you one of the hip & smug crowd, so you never noticed?
> > I like to think I'm hip, doesn't everybody?
>
> I prefer to see a definition of "hip" before believing that. I sense
> that it often goes with driving a jacked up shiny black SUV with 18"
> chromed wheels with 12" wide low cross section tires, blackened
> windows and 4" dual rumble pipes to go with the tish-boom stereo that
> shakes most structures (and cars) near the road.


Actually, in a lot of circles, the new hip is vastly different. My kid
cousin's version of hip is like an amalgam between the style of the
Kinks, early Stax, and a bit of punk when you reach the shoe. When he
visited the States, I took him to a preacher's suit store in Memphis
to get a proper outfit. The collision of Swedish (wannabe)intellectual
rocker with Memphis soul and gospel style was a success. Everybody was
laughing their asses off as we left the store--in a good way. A heavy
Swedish accent can be understood in many cities in the US, but in
Memphis, I had to translate, which was hilarious for everybody
involved. The young man left the shop looking quite fly.

Nothing wrong with style, nothing wrong with laughter, just don't
shuffle your shoes and sulk too much.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
landotter <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jul 21, 5:27 pm, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:36:39 -0000, landotter <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >> Well he must have seen them coming if they were that close, why
> > >> not stop first & let them by?
> >
> > >Because they don't have the right of way. I don't drive much, but
> > >if I'm at a stop sign and there's a bike coming as if not to slow
> > >down, I hit the gas, and they better hope their brakes are dialed
> > >in. I won't deliberately hit someone, but I have no problem
> > >letting people scare the **** out of themselves.
> >
> > Cars don't make people crazy?
>
> That's not crazy. If I'm at a four way stop first, I take the right
> of way. If you want to assume that I'm going to yield to you when you
> don't have the right of way--that's crazy. I'm not going to drive
> into you, but if it's a distance where a person can panic brake, I go
> ahead. My car was paid for 10 years ago, so I welcome people to taco
> wheels against it.

Actually, that is crazy.

> > Would you do the same thing if you were on a bike?
>
> Yes, and I've caused an idiot to lose some skin when he wrecked in a
> panic. I rolled up to the stop sign at 5mph, saw a guy not even
> thinking about braking flying perpendicular to me, so I took my
> right of way while yelling "YO!" He lost control and fell. Tough
> ****. He could have modulated his speed and ceded to my right of way,
> but he decided to take a stupid risk. No sympathy here.

Or maybe you're just a self-righteous ass.

 

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 21, 5:27 pm, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:36:39 -0000, landotter <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Well he must have seen them coming if they were that close, why
>>>>> not stop first & let them by?
>>>> Because they don't have the right of way. I don't drive much, but
>>>> if I'm at a stop sign and there's a bike coming as if not to slow
>>>> down, I hit the gas, and they better hope their brakes are dialed
>>>> in. I won't deliberately hit someone, but I have no problem
>>>> letting people scare the **** out of themselves.
>>> Cars don't make people crazy?
>> That's not crazy. If I'm at a four way stop first, I take the right
>> of way. If you want to assume that I'm going to yield to you when you
>> don't have the right of way--that's crazy. I'm not going to drive
>> into you, but if it's a distance where a person can panic brake, I go
>> ahead. My car was paid for 10 years ago, so I welcome people to taco
>> wheels against it.
>
> Actually, that is crazy.
>
>>> Would you do the same thing if you were on a bike?
>> Yes, and I've caused an idiot to lose some skin when he wrecked in a
>> panic. I rolled up to the stop sign at 5mph, saw a guy not even
>> thinking about braking flying perpendicular to me, so I took my
>> right of way while yelling "YO!" He lost control and fell. Tough
>> ****. He could have modulated his speed and ceded to my right of way,
>> but he decided to take a stupid risk. No sympathy here.
>
> Or maybe you're just a self-righteous ass.

People that run stop signs when there is other traffic around that has
the right-of-way are self-righteous asses.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com