Can Hincapie win?

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San
> > Fran, he might surprise.
>
> Dude we're talking about a 260km race. The guy probably didn't even ride this distance in a race
> or training this season. Comparing an American Crit to the elite WC is not a smart thing to do.


Dumbass -

Horner's training mileage is legendary.

 

[Richard Adams]

Kyle Legate wrote:

> Dan Connelly wrote:
>
>>>I have not seen George in a final sprint for several year, so...
>>
>>His last group sprint win:
>>
>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/mar97/setm97.html
>>
>
> Did you read the report? All the sprinters were dropped on a previous
> climb. This isn't a good example of a final sprint which therefore proves that Bettini is a better
> sprinter.

Stage 11 of this years Vuelta, Won by Zabel, G. Hincapie 8th st.

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Agreed. 5th is quite reasonable for him. Not the subject of this
thread,
> though.
> >
> > All I was discussing, though, was whether he's a better sprinter than
> Bettini,
> > an assertion I claim is completely without justification in the race
> record.
> >
> > Dan
>
>
> Bettini is a much better racer. Hincapie is a slightly better sprinter in long fast sprints, but
> Bettini is close.

<snip>

?

Hincapie's not even close to being the sprinter that Bettini is. Hincapie's won a handful in his
career - Bettini has been winning regularly out of small to medium sized groups.

He won 3 WC races so far this year for god's sake. How can this even be in dispute?

 

[Sonarrat]

No. Hincapie, a former US champion, is not a non-sprinter, as some have suggested, but for this
race, Freddy Rodriguez has a better chance than Hincapie. When Hincapie went for bunch sprints in
the Vuelta, the results were unspectacular. 34th in stage 10, 8th in stage 11, 25th in stage 12,
12th in stage 14. If that's an indicator of winning form, then Gorka Gonzalez and Alessandro
Bertolini will be his biggest competition.

-Sonarrat.

 

[Nick Burns]

"Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Kenny wrote:
>
> >>Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San
> >>Fran, he might surprise.
> >
> >
> > Dude we're talking about a 260km race. The guy probably didn't even ride this distance in a race
> > or training this season. Comparing an American Crit to the elite WC is not a smart thing to do.
>
> He cranked up Fillmore street 8 times and Taylor, what 13 times, then kept going past the finish
> line ready for another lap. Tough guy.
>

Yeah, that was more than a crit.

Keep in mind Horner has raced in international fields and done well. He just did not do well staying
in Europe for extended lengths of time.

At first, I didn't think much of his chances but upon reflection I think he has to be considered a
dark horse possibility.

 

[Richard Adams]

Nick Burns wrote:

> "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Kenny wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San
>>>>Fran, he might surprise.
>>>
>>>
>>>Dude we're talking about a 260km race. The guy probably didn't even ride this distance in a race
>>>or training this season. Comparing an American Crit to the elite WC is not a smart thing to do.
>>
>>He cranked up Fillmore street 8 times and Taylor, what 13 times, then kept going past the finish
>>line ready for another lap. Tough guy.
>>
>
>
> Yeah, that was more than a crit.
>
> Keep in mind Horner has raced in international fields and done well. He just did not do well
> staying in Europe for extended lengths of time.
>
> At first, I didn't think much of his chances but upon reflection I think he has to be considered a
> dark horse possibility.

He's also likely to be in form and racing on practically home ground. As Rolf Aldag put it, after
the SF race, most of the euros don't know much about these guys, i.e. who's a climber, who's a
sprinter, who's an all arounder, who's just trying to get some face time in front of the camera for
his dear old mum, etc.

 

[Sonarrat]

"Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:1065565239.162120@ns...
> >
> >
> > Kenny wrote:
> > >>Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San
> > >>Fran, he might surprise.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dude we're talking about a 260km race. The guy probably didn't even ride this distance in a
> > > race or training this season. Comparing an American Crit to the elite WC is not a smart thing
> > > to do.
> >
> > Oslo, 1993.
>
> Lance had been in Europe for about a year at that point. His first pro race was the Clasica San
> Sebastian in August 1992.

- Where he came in dead last.

-Sonarrat.

 

[Fred Marx]

there are some rumours floating around regarding a three week, "intensive" was the word used,
climbing trainging camp, with Klasna I hear, before and specifically directed toward, SFGP. Add in
the "who's that guy" factor and who knows...... I expect to see The Azzuri go out hard, put the big
horses up front, and drill this sucker for Bettini. It also looks like Zabel will benefit from a
concerted team effort.

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"Sonarrat" <[email protected]..> wrote in message
> >
> > Lance had been in Europe for about a year at that point. His first pro race was the Clasica San
> > Sebastian in August 1992.
>
> - Where he came in dead last.
>

Ahead of all the riders who had quit the race.

 

[Nick Burns]

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >

>
> Hincapie's not even close to being the sprinter that Bettini is.
Hincapie's
> won a handful in his career - Bettini has been winning regularly out of
small
> to medium sized groups.
>
> He won 3 WC races so far this year for god's sake. How can this even be in dispute?

I guess I can't dispute it since nobody seems to get my point.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, "B. Lafferty"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I can't help but wonder if George is not trained to win. Tyler Hamilton said in an interview
> that when he was with Postal, he was trained for setting a long, hard, steady pace in the
> mountains. George seems to be getting better and better at that same skill each year. Riis
> change Hamilton's training to give him more of the ability to attack. It certainly paid off
> this year. Hapless Hincapie needs a new team and a fresh start.

This seems pretty reasonable to me. He has gotten pretty good at dragging his team up to a
certain level in the mountains. So which team/DS would be able to get different (better)
performance out of GH?

--
tanx, Howard

"We've reached a higher spiritual plane, that is so high I can't explain We tell jokes to make you
laugh, we play sports so we don't get fat..." The Dictators

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>, "Nick Burns"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Dan Connelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote:
> > > Still it's a sign that if Hincapie is in a lead group, the others often
> seem
> > > to be afraid of his sprint. At least that's how it appears to me when I
> see
> > > him race in Flanders. I think he's reasonably fast (as is Van Bon).
> Given
> > > the fact that he has shown himself this season to survive tough courses well, it's not
> > > illogical to predict a high spot for him. Something like
> 5th
> > > place, or thereabout.
> > >
> > > Jonathan.
>
> Yep. I would say Van Bon is about right too. I am not picking Hincapie for the win, just making
> the point that it is not his lack of a fast sprint that causes his problems.Actually, (this is
> really going out on a limb) there may have been a few times where he should have attacked but he
> was too confident in his sprint.

I think confidence is a big part of the Hincapie/results issue, but my take is a bit different. I
think he lacks confidence in his ability to successfully maintain an attack to the end of a race,
so he falls back on his ability to sprint. One important thing about Bettini is his ability to
consistently put himself into situations where he can do the thing he excels at: win from a
smallish group.

--
tanx, Howard

"We've reached a higher spiritual plane, that is so high I can't explain We tell jokes to make you
laugh, we play sports so we don't get fat..." The Dictators

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Nick Burns]

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> > Yep. I would say Van Bon is about right too. I am not picking Hincapie
for
> > the win, just making the point that it is not his lack of a fast sprint
that
> > causes his problems.Actually, (this is really going out on a limb) there
may
> > have been a few times where he should have attacked but he was too
confident
> > in his sprint.
>
> I think confidence is a big part of the Hincapie/results issue, but my
take
> is a bit different. I think he lacks confidence in his ability to
successfully
> maintain an attack to the end of a race, so he falls back on his ability
to
> sprint. One important thing about Bettini is his ability to consistently
put
> himself into situations where he can do the thing he excels at: win from a smallish group.

You raise a good point. I think both scenarios at various times have been a part of Hincapies
frustrations.

 

[Nick Burns]

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> This seems pretty reasonable to me. He has gotten pretty good at
dragging his
> team up to a certain level in the mountains. So which team/DS would be
able to
> get different (better) performance out of GH?

Quickstep, Fassa Bortolo or maybe a few others. He needs a team with focus and expertise with the
classics and a strong DS that will look after his needs (as opposed to Lance's).

 

[Nick Burns]

"Sonarrat" <[email protected]..> wrote in message

> >
> > Lance had been in Europe for about a year at that point. His first pro
race
> > was the Clasica San Sebastian in August 1992.
>
> - Where he came in dead last.

Dude, we know. Then he came back and won it.

 

[Scott Downie]

Rumor, through sources close to a USA competitor in Hamilton say they will be working for Hincapie.
--
Irrationally held truths may be more harmful than reasoned errors. "Richard Adams"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Nick Burns wrote:
>
> > "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Kenny wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Sure seem willing to write off some of the local US talent. After Horner's great race in San
> >>>>Fran, he might surprise.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Dude we're talking about a 260km race. The guy probably didn't even ride this distance in a
> >>>race or training this season. Comparing an American Crit to the elite WC is not a smart thing
> >>>to do.
> >>
> >>He cranked up Fillmore street 8 times and Taylor, what 13 times, then kept going past the finish
> >>line ready for another lap. Tough guy.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yeah, that was more than a crit.
> >
> > Keep in mind Horner has raced in international fields and done well. He
just
> > did not do well staying in Europe for extended lengths of time.
> >
> > At first, I didn't think much of his chances but upon reflection I think
he
> > has to be considered a dark horse possibility.
>
> He's also likely to be in form and racing on practically home ground. As Rolf Aldag put it, after
> the SF race, most of the euros don't know much about these guys, i.e. who's a climber, who's a
> sprinter, who's an all arounder, who's just trying to get some face time in front of the camera
> for his dear old mum, etc.

 

[Nick Burns]

"Scott Downie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rumor, through sources close to a USA competitor in Hamilton say they will be working for
> Hincapie.

I am sure they will be helping each other. Hincapie would likely win the sprint in the break while
Hamilton would try to go on a solo attack that would allow George (and other Americans) to sit in.
That is why Tyler is such an important member of the team. Horner is in great shape (as others have
noted) and Levi should be hitting top form too. This is the strongest American team in a long time.

Still, the Italians should be able to take this if the pressure doesn't get to them. Ballerini knows
how to put together a winning squad and he sure has the resources to draw from.

The American and Italian teams should be well marked though (and of course that always works against
the favorites) so it should be an exciting race. If Friere hadn't won twice already I would say he
is a favorite too...but to win a third time?

Damn, I wish this one was televised. Is this going to be on a web site with text updates every few
minutes? If so, when and where?

 

[Beetlebum]

[
Damn, I wish this one was televised. Is this going to be on a web site with text updates every few
minutes? If so, when and where? [/B][/QUOTE]

Try cyclingnews.com - they'll have live updates the whole race, and of the time trial tomorrow as well...

 

[Davey Crockett]

h squared <[email protected]> writes:

> Nick Burns wrote:
>>
>> Damn, I wish this one was televised. Is this going to be on a web site with text updates every
>> few minutes? If so, when and where?
>
> what about cyclingnews?
>
> heather, too lazy to check out the official website.

If anyone cannot access text based coverage Saturday and Sunday, I will be happy to supply coverage
as live as you will get either via a website or via an IRC channel I have on irc.freenode.net

But you must let me know in advance. I'll do it for as few as two interested parties, but it is a
lot of work, so I'm not just going to blindly do it and see who shows up as i did at the Vuelta.

Just post here if you are interested.

Toodlez

--
le vent a Dos

Davey Crockett

 

[Davey Crockett]

"Nick Burns" <[email protected]> writes:

> "h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> Nick Burns wrote:
>> >
>> > Damn, I wish this one was televised. Is this going to be on a web site
> with
>> > text updates every few minutes? If so, when and where?
>>
>> what about cyclingnews?
>>
>> heather, too lazy to check out the official website.
>
> Is there an official web site?
>
>

Yes but they will not be supplying coverage

--
le vent a Dos

Davey Crockett