Dodgy 'tests' used for selling wheels



alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Amazing. By amazing, I mean amazingly stupid. The correlation between these "tests" and anything that has physical significance would be zero. The scary is that there will be people who think these "tests" actually demonstrate product superiority of some sort. I'm surprised they didn't perform a Hogg Test (a revolutionary test developed by Steve Hogg that demonstrates the negative effects of wearing a "charity band" around wrist while on a bike) to show how the ZeroCX spun better than the others in the presence of a charity band.

The "synchronization rod" and "synchronization cardboard" used to absolutely insure test integrity by guaranteeing that all wheels were.......uhm.....spinning is an amazing invention. I'll bet ZeroCX can sell those, too.
 

maydog

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Feb 5, 2010
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Wow, that Hogg stuff is Hogg-wash. The problem is that less competent persons tend to assess themselves a higher than reality. Search for the Dunning-Kruger effect or the paper "Unskilled and Unaware of it". Funny as it is, the paper earned an Ig-Nobel award, the arguments are valid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

People who have studied, understand and apply the scientific method and statistics are in the minority. For many the only "training" in "science" they receive is on prime-time television.

Many people will attribute an experiment, however flawed, or anecdote as proof of whatever concept they support. This opens the door for hacks, quacks and politicians to do their song and dance to sell their product or join their cause.

There are so many shortcomings in the "tests" presented above. I find it humorous that a company looking to sell a high performance bicycling product would actually produce videos using roughly cut cardboard and a box fan for their experimental setup. If this were a middle school science project, I would give them an "C" due to deductions in Scientific merit, visual appeal and sloppy setup.
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Originally Posted by maydog .

Wow, that Hogg stuff is Hogg-wash. The problem is that less competent persons tend to assess themselves a higher than reality. Search for the Dunning-Kruger effect or the paper "Unskilled and Unaware of it". Funny as it is, the paper earned an Ig-Nobel award, the arguments are valid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

People who have studied, understand and apply the scientific method and statistics are in the minority. For many the only "training" in "science" they receive is on prime-time television.

Many people will attribute an experiment, however flawed, or anecdote as proof of whatever concept they support. This opens the door for hacks, quacks and politicians to do their song and dance to sell their product or join their cause.

There are so many shortcomings in the "tests" presented above. I find it humorous that a company looking to sell a high performance bicycling product would actually produce videos using roughly cut cardboard and a box fan for their experimental setup. If this were a middle school science project, I would give them an "C" due to deductions in Scientific merit, visual appeal and sloppy setup.
You're right on the money. In reality I think it's less about understanding Scientific Method and much more about there be comparatively little emphasis in schools on critical thinking skills. Certainly though, science and math education are being done sub-optimally, at least in the US.

In middle school, I guess the above "experiment" might merit a C. I'm not sure what purpose the cardboard "ramp" serves.
 

jpr95

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Oct 11, 2010
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So the ZeroCX wheels weigh 20 lbs each? Or did I miss something? ;)

"ZeroCX Wheels! Now with Perpetual Motion Technology!"
 

dhk2

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Aug 8, 2006
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Alienator, apparently they added the ramps to channel the airflow to the upper, advancing side of the wheel to maximize the drag effect. Makes the video shorter, but obviously doesn't simulate the real world. Interesting how aerodynamics is used to compare rolling resistance of hubs....afraid this one flunks the science fair.

On the second demo tape, that the Zero wheels have the heaviest rims would certainly be one possible explanation. The other is that they don't have any seals in their hubs, and that the bearings have been adjusted for no preload, or that they are running in light oil rather than grease. Doing a comparison at home, my Circuit wheel will spin much longer than my DT 240- hubed wheel. It's because the hubs have no preload and no axle seals to keep out rain and grit, not because the cheap R8 skateboard bearings they use are better than the DT Swiss bearings.
 
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alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Originally Posted by dhk2 .

Alienator, apparently they added the ramps to channel the airflow to the upper, advancing side of the wheel to maximize the drag effect. Makes the video shorter, but obviously doesn't simulate the real world. Interesting how aerodynamics is used to compare rolling resistance of hubs....afraid this one flunks the science fair.

On the second demo tape, that the Zero wheels have the heaviest rims would certainly be one possible explanation. The other is that they don't have any seals in their hubs, and that the bearings have been adjusted for no preload, or that they are running in light oil rather than grease. Doing a comparison at home, my Circuit wheel will spin much longer than my DT 240- hubed wheel. It's because the hubs have no preload and no axle seals to keep out rain and grit, not because the cheap R8 skateboard bearings they use are better than the DT Swiss bearings.
...and don't forget the wheels are just spinnin' in air, not rollin' down the road with bearings actually under a working load.