Finally I Meet An Intelligent Mountain Biker

[[email protected]]

On Oct 19, 6:11 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> A canopy over the trail at a height of about 4 feet would work wonders
> to keep undesirables off.

I doubt your recumbent would handle very well weaving around toddlers
and midgets.

 

[Scott in SoCal]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> said in rec.autos.driving:

>I find the bicycle bell much LESS ambiguous.

Really? So when you hear the bell, do you move to your right or to
your left?

>The spoken voice requires more interpretation

Trivial unless you don't understand English.

>and required not only hearing the voice, but also
>being able understand the words, which is not a given due to poor
>diction, Doppler effect, and/or background noise.

If you hear the voice but can't understand the words, then that's
precisely the same scenario as the bell: you know someone is
approaching, but you don't know on which side. So the voice provides
at least as much information as the bell, and in most cases much more.
--
MFFYCam Videos Galore:
http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/
http://slothkills.blip.tv/

 

[Scott in SoCal]

Matt O'Toole <[email protected]> said in rec.autos.driving:

>>> * Cyclists have probably exacerbated the problem by riding irresponsibly
>>> around pedestrians -- passing too fast, too close, etc.
>>
>> But the blame is not only cyclists. Pedestrians certainly behave
>> erratically and thoughtlessly as well.
>
>I'll put the onus of safety on the one with greater potential to do harm.

I'll put the onus of safety on the ones who aren't following the rules
of the road (or the trail).

>We want cars and trucks to respect our right to the road, yet we feel it's
>our right to go blasting through a bunch of pedestrians, and that it's
>their responsibility to stay out of "our" way?

I shouldn't have to "go blasting through a bunch of pedestrians" -
those pedestrians should keep to the right and leave room for other
trail users to pass them safely, not spread out and hog the whole
goddamn trail as if they owned it. OTOH, if they're going to be
selfish MFFYs and hog the whole road, then I have very little sympathy
for them if a pedalcyclist "blasts" through the clum and
startles/injures somebody.
--
MFFYCam Videos Galore:
http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/
http://slothkills.blip.tv/

 

[Brent P]

In article <[email protected]>, Scott in SoCal wrote:
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> said in rec.autos.driving:
>
>>I find the bicycle bell much LESS ambiguous.
>
> Really? So when you hear the bell, do you move to your right or to
> your left?

People should know to keep right, but they do that on bike trails worse
than they drive.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> dgk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:19:05 -0700, [email protected]
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>The voice works OK too. Trouble is the ped usually has an iPod bored
>>>into their head.
>>
>>That really is a problem. My bell doesn't seem to penetrate at all.
>>Yelling sort of does the job. I think the old airhorn might be
>>necessary. I think I'll order one.
>
> A length of 2x4 delivered to the back of the head as you pass
> them after they ignore your warning should do the job as well.
>
> If there's several of them side-by-side blocking most or all of the ROW, you'll
> need a larger 2x4.

It takes a car driver to talk about deliberately
clobbering pedestrians.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 19, 6:11 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> A canopy over the trail at a height of about 4 feet would work wonders
>> to keep undesirables off.
>
> I doubt your recumbent would handle very well weaving around toddlers
> and midgets.

Toddlers and midgets have low mass - I just need a bike like Joe's:
<http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/joe/outtaMyWay_1.mpg> and
<http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/joe/outtaMyWay_2.mpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> ...
>> Sometimes while in there, I've had a bit o' fun
>> just silently pacing along at a safe distance
>> behind pedestrians, and seeing how long it
>> takes before they notice I'm there....
>
> I rather pace behind young women on inline skates. Better scenery, and
> they move at a pace where one does not have to concentrate on balance.

The park to which I refer doesn't have paved trails.
Just hardpack. The park serves me and other cyclists
as an interface between Vancouver's bike route system,
and our nextdoorikah's (to wit: Burnaby, BC.) But it
serves the majority of its visitors as what it actually
is: a park, and a very lovely one at that. As a cyclist
just passing through, I must courteously defer to the
/real/ users of that public space. It has signage
indicating its 10 km/h speed limit, and that cyclists
must always observe the ROW of pedestrians. That's
okay with me; sometimes I like to enjoy that park too.
The tree air in there is pretty good to breathe.
Going through there is like a mid-ride Shabbath to
pause and get one's perspective back.

It's not always necessary to pass, or to otherwise
(have to) outdo, people ahead of you.
Sometimes, easy does it.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[[email protected]]

On Oct 19, 11:36 pm, Scott in SoCal <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> I shouldn't have to "go blasting through a bunch of pedestrians" -
> those pedestrians should keep to the right and leave room for other
> trail users to pass them safely, not spread out and hog the whole
> goddamn trail as if they owned it.

I agree. It's rude for five housewives to walk shoulder to shoulder
down a Multi-User Path. I'm sure if those same housewives
encountered five teenagers walking shoulder to shoulder through their
favorite shopping mall, they'd cluck like angry hens.

But another point: Why is it that peds are expected to keep to the
_right_ on a MUP? If they followed the rules for _roads_ and kept to
their left, facing the traffic on wheels, we could skip this whole
discussion of bells.

It's just evidence that MUPs are thought of as sidewalks, not
streets. The people riding bikes on them are willfully choosing a
sidewalk environment. And on MUPs, as on sidewalks, bicycles and
pedestrians mix poorly.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[[email protected]]

On Oct 22, 11:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 19, 11:36 pm, Scott in SoCal <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I shouldn't have to "go blasting through a bunch of pedestrians" -
> > those pedestrians should keep to the right and leave room for other
> > trail users to pass them safely, not spread out and hog the whole
> > goddamn trail as if they owned it.
>
> I agree. It's rude for five housewives to walk shoulder to shoulder
> down a Multi-User Path. I'm sure if those same housewives
> encountered five teenagers walking shoulder to shoulder through their
> favorite shopping mall, they'd cluck like angry hens.
>
> But another point: Why is it that peds are expected to keep to the
> _right_ on a MUP? If they followed the rules for _roads_ and kept to
> their left, facing the traffic on wheels, we could skip this whole
> discussion of bells.
>
> It's just evidence that MUPs are thought of as sidewalks, not
> streets. The people riding bikes on them are willfully choosing a
> sidewalk environment. And on MUPs, as on sidewalks, bicycles and
> pedestrians mix poorly.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

There is a bike path in Salem MA that is treated like a MUP, even
though it's a city designated bike path. I've been yelled at to slow
down on that path by said group while they were walking 5 or 6 wide,
blocking the entirety of the path in BOTH directions, coming at me
head to head. This is on my mountain bike, on the way to or from the
trails, on my middle ring. I don't keep a computer on the mtb, but I
couldn't have been going much faster than 15mph, and estimate it was
closer to 12. I had to ride off the trail to get around them. None
of this was uncommon on that path, and I only used it to get me to a
certain trail or on foul weather days when it was actually suitable
for the road bike (read: empty).

 

[Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
> ...
> There is a bike path in Salem MA that is treated like a MUP, even
> though it's a city designated bike path. I've been yelled at to slow
> down on that path by said group while they were walking 5 or 6 wide,
> blocking the entirety of the path in BOTH directions, coming at me
> head to head....

See <http://sheldonbrown.com/lirpa.html#bayonetz>. As usual, Sheldon has
the answer.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Beer - It's not just for breakfast anymore!

 

[Leo Lichtman]

The idea of locking a brake to keep the bike from rolling and tipping is
good for another reason. If you can lock a brake, this is a deterrent to
casual theft. The person decides to walk away or ride away on your bike,
but something is wrong--it just won't go. The important thing here is that
the brake should be jammed in a non-obvious way, such as inserting a wedge
or shim at a caliper, or at the noodle.

 

[Dana Myers]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 19, 11:36 pm, Scott in SoCal <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I shouldn't have to "go blasting through a bunch of pedestrians" -
>> those pedestrians should keep to the right and leave room for other
>> trail users to pass them safely, not spread out and hog the whole
>> goddamn trail as if they owned it.
>
> I agree. It's rude for five housewives to walk shoulder to shoulder
> down a Multi-User Path. I'm sure if those same housewives
> encountered five teenagers walking shoulder to shoulder through their
> favorite shopping mall, they'd cluck like angry hens.
>
> But another point: Why is it that peds are expected to keep to the
> _right_ on a MUP? If they followed the rules for _roads_ and kept to
> their left, facing the traffic on wheels, we could skip this whole
> discussion of bells.

Ahhh... the Jedediah Smith Memorial Trail in the American River Parkway
from Sacramento to Folsom has signs explicitly directing pedestrians to
walk on the gravel shoulder on the left, and many do. It's wonderful,
and no bell is required.

However, some pedestrians will simply wander around the trail without
paying attention to the signs, or the frequent oncoming bicyclists. It
is almost as if they *want* to be hit. I don't think a bell would help
these folks, either.

Dana