Iraq : A summary of the Bush Gov Lies

[ejglows]

There are flaws in your anology. 1. You will never have kids (the natural way that is) due to your lifestyle. 2. You don't live in the u.s. so your fabricated or otherwise assimulated fictional child won't be coming home from any U.S. school 3. You are not qualified to comment on family values as so indicated by your twisted deviant analogy concerning the presidents backside. 4. You left the U.S. (permanently, I hope) so your opinion carries even less weight concerning our domestic issues. Loser...

If you ever even had an OUNCE of credibilty you have lost it over countless posts of nonsense and slander.

e

 

[zapper]

If you ever even had an OUNCE of credibilty you have lost it over countless posts of nonsense and slander.
e

Hey E. if this is true then you slander yourself...

Originally Posted by ejglows
You know...

I have seen Christains kill

I have seen married folks cheat

AND I have seen nuclear weapons used for peace

The world is full of contradictions.

I am a lesbian and I dont own a *****.

I am a vegetarian and I dont eat anything that *tastes* like meat.

I have degrees in Biology as well as Religion.

Accept diversity.

Oh, and I am a very well-functioning member of society.

e

By the way, you didn't mention the string of pearls in your list of toys here...

 

[Bikerman2004]

If you ever even had an OUNCE of credibilty you have lost it over countless posts of nonsense and slander.

e

I guess you don't consider "a string of pearls up Bush`s ass" to be slander or nonsense? How can you talk about credibility when you say this ****?

 

[zapper]

Are you going to Boycott McDonals? How about GE? I am sure you have amazing insight into the connection of Cheney and Halliburton?

Check your facts on Halliburton..Nothing I repeat nothing proven against him...So, might you put up or shut up...

How dare you compare countries based on such crude information? If the world were as black and white as numbers, there wouldnt be such a pallet of beautiful colors. Japan has a much stonger economy than Ireland, BUT juxtapose to the relative `happiness` of this country, Ireland has almost 4x`s the `life satisfaction` and less suicide.

Pallet of beautiful colors...Oh, brother you are pathetic. Numbers work well for your kind when it is convienent... I suppose you have REAL data to show your 4x figure of life satisfactionor are you simply referring to a particular community that you are a member of...I would give you that those of your persuasion are happier outside the U.S. and that's fine with me. I could care less either way.

Take the blinders off.

Stay in Japan!

 

[ejglows]

I guess you don't consider "a string of pearls up Bush`s ass" to be slander or nonsense? How can you talk about credibility when you say this ****?

Did I deviate from the topic at hand? Maybe I should have been more `politically correct` and called him a brown-noser? Or how about a marrionette? Is that any better? I must admit, I am not very original, I got it from a Japanese friend (who is straight, an engineer at Fuji-Film, with a family). You can say we are both very colorful. Or, rather, honest. Oh, a world without poetry would be dull. Besides, that is my opinion. You dont have to agree.

I have never posted slandering another member. And I am not the one who lead a country into war based on lies and against the wishes of a united conglomerate of countries.

e

 

[ejglows]

Here is the `happiness study` Ireland is `happier` than the US...and Japan defaulted because life satisfaction has not risen at all since the end of WWII even though the economy has had substantial growth.

http://www2.eur.nl/fsw/research/veenhoven/Pub2000s/2003e-full.pdf

Published, scientific journal.

e

 

[Bikerman2004]

Did I deviate from the topic at hand? Maybe I should have been more `politically correct` and called him a brown-noser? Or how about a marrionette? Is that any better? I must admit, I am not very original, I got it from a Japanese friend (who is straight, an engineer at Fuji-Film, with a family). You can say we are both very colorful. Or, rather, honest. Oh, a world without poetry would be dull. Besides, that is my opinion. You dont have to agree.

I have never posted slandering another member. And I am not the one who lead a country into war based on lies and against the wishes of a united conglomerate of countries.

e

Didn't you state somewhere before that you are a teacher? I would think as a teacher you would be able to articulate an argument that is less crude, better thought out and expressed with the intelligence a teacher should posess.

 

[ejglows]

Didn't you state somewhere before that you are a teacher? I would think as a teacher you would be able to articulate an argument that is less crude, better thought out and expressed with the intelligence a teacher should posess.

I thought that was very well well thought out, thank you. I am quite articulate and have several publications (in both scientific journals as well as other non-fiction publications). I also drink beer, but that doesnt skew my judgement and ability to reason. Nor does it defile my profession. There is nothing dichotomous about how I live and what I believe.

Definitions do two things; they have the abilty to define what is and what is not. You have no authority to define me or define an entire body of people.

This thread has nothing to do with me. Please refrain from personal attacks. I know you must be persons of integrity, at least that is my hope.

e

 

[Bikerman2004]

I thought that was very well well thought out, thank you. I am quite articulate and have several publications (in both scientific journals as well as other non-fiction publications). I also drink beer, but that doesnt skew my judgement and ability to reason. Nor does it defile my profession. There is nothing dichotomous about how I live and what I believe.

Definitions do two things; they have the abilty to define what is and what is not. You have no authority to define me or define an entire body of people.

This thread has nothing to do with me. Please refrain from personal attacks. I know you must be persons of integrity, at least that is my hope.

e

How was my response a personal attack? I didn't challenge your viewpoint. I did question the manner in which you presented it. Don't lecture me on what I can and can't do. At what point did I define you? Your own post define you. You've done a good job of that all by yourself. Guess you don't take criticism well.

 

[zapper]

Here is the `happiness study` Ireland is `happier` than the US...and Japan defaulted because life satisfaction has not risen at all since the end of WWII even though the economy has had substantial growth.

http://www2.eur.nl/fsw/research/veenhoven/Pub2000s/2003e-full.pdf

Published, scientific journal.

e

Hey E, no offense but...A. This data is old...Seems the end of this research fell in the middle of CLINTON's presidency...
"The data span the years 1958-1996."

B. Seems the thesis of this rather large document(at least time that I care to spend on ones opinion) is as stated below:
Twenty-five years ago, Easterlin (1974) posed an important question, “Will raising the incomes of all increase the happiness of all?”

Thanks for the link..When I have some time on my hands to waste, I'll take a look at ALL of the data and get back to you. However, on the surface it seems that it's not really what you could call an "air tight case" as it appears the study is based upon changing ones income...not their geographical location or that it has anything to do with the current administration ....No matter perhaps there may be a few "pearls" of wisdom yet to be uncovered here....

 

[zapper]

Guess you don't take criticism well.

Yeah she thinks that Americans in general don't like her because she is short, red and doesn't own a *****..

 

[limerickman]

You mean like this? HEINZ WATTIE'S AUSTRALASIA - Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
HEINZ SINGAPORE PTE. LTD. - Republic of Singapore
HEINZ WATTIE'S LIMITED - Auckland, New Zealand
HEINZ JAPAN LTD - Tokyo, Japan
HEINZ-UFE LTD. - Guangzhou, People's Republic of China
HEINZ COSCO - Qingdao, People's Republic of China
HEINZ KOREA LTD. - Inchon, South Korea
HEINZ WIN CHANCE LTD. - Bangkok, Thailand
HEINZ INDIA PRIVATE LIMITED - Mumbai, India
PT HEINZ ABC INDONESIA - Jakarta, Indonesia
PT HEINZ SUPRAMA - Surabaya, Indonesia
HEINZ UFC PHILIPPINES - Manila, the Philippines
HEINZ HONG KONG LIMITED - Wanchai, Hong Kong
H. J. HEINZ (Botswana) (Proprietary) LTD. - Ga borone, Botswana
KGALAGADI SOAP INDUSTRIES (Pty) LTD. - Gaborone, Botswana
REFINED OIL PRODUCTS (Pty) LTD. - Gaborone, Botswana
OLIVINE INDUSTRIES (Private) LIMITED - Harare, Zimbabwe
CHEGUTU CANNERS (Pvt) LTD. - Chegutu, Zimbabwe
HEINZ SOUTH AFRICA (PTY) LTD. - Johannesburg, South Africa
HEINZ WELLINGTON'S (PTY) LTD. - Wellington, South Africa
HEINZ EUROPE - Hayes, Middlesex, England
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Hayes Park, Hayes, Middlesex, England
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Rovereto, Italy
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Telford, England
JOHN WEST FOODS LIMITED - Liverpool, England
H. J. HEINZ FROZEN & CHILLED FOODS LIMITED - Hayes, Middlesex,
England
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY (IRELAND) LIMITED - Dublin, Ireland
H.J. HEINZ COMPANY OF CANADA LTD - North York, Ontario, Canada
OMSTEAD FOODS LIMITED - Wheatley, Ontario, Canada
ALIMENTOS HEINZ C.A. - Caracas, Venezuela
DISTRIBUIDORA BANQUETE, S.A. - San José* Costa Rica
HEI NZ ITALIA S.r.l. - Milan, Italy
FATTORIA SCALDASOLE, S.p.a. - Monguzzo, Italy
COPAIS FOOD AND BEVERAGE COMPANY, S.A. - Athens, Greece
HEINZ POLSKA Sp. Z.O.O. - Warsaw, Poland
PUDLISZKI S.A. - Pudliszki, Poland
WODZISLAW, S.A. - Wodzislaw, Poland
ETS. PAULET S.A. - Douarnenez, France
H. J. HEINZ FROZEN S.A.R.L. - Paris, France
HEINZ IBERICA S.A. - Madrid, Spain
IDAL (Industrias de Alimentacã * Lda.) - Lisbon, Portugal
MIEDZYCHOD S.A. - Miedzychod, Poland
HEINZ C.I.S. - Moscow, Russia
HEINZ GEORGIEVSK - Georgievsk, Russia
CAIRO FOOD INDUSTRIES SAE - Cairo, Egypt
HEINZ REMEDIA LIMITED - Tel Aviv, Israel
STAR-KIST FOOD DÂ'OR LIMITED - Haifa, Israel
H. J. HEINZ GMBH - Dí² í³¥ldorf, Germany
SONNEN BASSERMANN - Seesen, Germany
KONINKLIJKE DE RUIJTER BV - The Netherlands
HAK BV - The Netherlands
FOODMARK - The Netherlands
HONIG MERKARTIKELEN BV - The Netherlands
DRUKKERIJ DE GROENBOER - The Netherlands
H. J. HEINZ B.V . - Elst, The Netherlands
H. J. HEINZ BELGIUM S.A. - Brussels, Belgium
SERV-A-PORTION - Turnhout, Belgium
Arimpex Industrie Alimentari S.R.L. - Rovereto, Italy
Comexo S.A. - Chateaurenard, France
HEINZ EUROPE - UK and IRELAND - Factories: Chorley, Fakenham,
Grimsby,
Kendal, Kitt Green, Leaminton, Luton, Okehampton, Telford, Westwick

However, Please send us your money...We'll take it.

AND WHO WAS CHAIRMAN AND CHEIF EXECUTIVE OF HEINZ DURING THE
1980 AND 1990'S, ZAPPER ???
COME ON !

One A.J.F. (Tony) O'Reilly : Born Dublin - Lives in Dublin.
Played Rugby and Cricket for Ireland.

Ye see what the moral here is Zapper ? The Yanks create great companies but it takes an Irishman to make them successful.

Hey, Zapper, thanks for putting us up in lights again !!!!!!!! (LOL)

(This is like a bout with a punchy boxer - he keeps comin' forward and I keep
hitting him !)

 

[limerickman]

The premise made by the Bush goverment for the invasion of Iraq - being especially vocal between June 2002 and March 2003 - has now been demolished by :

1. The Butler Report in Britain
2. 9/11 Bi-Partisan Senate Commission
3. Iraq Survey Group Report.

No weapons of masss destruction were in Iraq.
No stockpiles of WMD were found in Iraq.
No documentation for a WMD program were found in Iraq.
No stockpiles of chemical weapons were found in Iraq.
No documentation for chemical weapons program were found in Iraq.
The USA has had unfettered access to the entire territory of Iraq and has still - 18 months later - failed to provide one quantity of depleted uranium, one vial of anthrax, one vial of small, one document showing the manufacture of WMD and/or

36,000,000 (36 MILLION DOCUMENTS) were examined by the latest commission (Iraq Survey Group) to investigate WMD and not one document in the 36,000,0000 documents read, can substantiate the lie.

Remember Bush said and I quote "we know that SH possess weapons of mass destruction" in State of the Union address 2002.
He said it so often that he actually believed and still believes it to be true -
despite the findings of all of the commissions and reviews !
Tony Blair Sept 2002 in the House of Commons "we know that SH presents a real and active threat and we know that he us in possession of WMD".

"in possession of/possesses" - think about that phrase for one moment.

Both leaders - spoke with unequivocal certainty that Hussein possessed WMD/
chemical weapons.
WHEN ASKED TO PROVIDE PROOF OF THESE CLAIMS - NEITHER OF THEM CAN
PROVIDE ANY PROOF !

1,060 dead American soldiers, thousands of dead Iraqi's.
That's the price for this war in human terms, so far.
Instead of making Iraq a secure place - Iraq is in anarchy.
Outside of the Green Zone in Baghdad, anarchy reigns.
Foreigners are being kidnapped and killed.
People volunteering to join the local police are being ambushed on a daily basis.
Carbombs are detonated at will throughout Iraq.
It is a lie to conclude that Iraq is free.
No electricity/gas supplies for the civilian people.
Hospitals are barely functioning.

Democracy indeed.
And let me define democracy because there are two types of democracy here.
The USA cheerleads about democracy.
One type of democracy is the one that is within the sovereign territory of the USA - Bush would have you believe that this same democracy applies in Iraq.
Well let me tell you, it doesn't.
When Bush talks about democracy - he wants you to believe that the same democracy that applies in the USA, applies in Iraq.
It doesn't.

You see there is a puppet goverment in Iraq.
On June 30th 2004 : the US handed power to this new Iraq interm goverment.
To hand over power means, just that, hand over power.

Zarqawi demanded the release of women prisoners from this interm Iraqi
goverment in Sept 2004.
The Justice Minister of Iraq - said that the two ladies in question would be freed on bail.
After all these people are Iraq's prisoners.
THE US STATE DEPT THEN INFORMED THE IRAQ GOVERMENT THAT IT WAS NOT IN THEIR (IRAQI'S) GIFT TO AUTHORISE THE RELEASE OF THESE TWO PRISONERS.
Consequently, these two women were kept on prison and Zarqawi began executing the foreign workers held captive.

So we have a situation where an Iraq'i goverment is appointed and told that they are in charge of their own affairs BUT ONLY IF THIS IS IN LINE WITH WHAT THE US GOVERMENT WANTS.

Democracy is a very precious commodity.

 

[Trekker2017]

Yeah only "half pints" in Ireland.

Wow a thriving economy in your huge country....Very impressive...Um lets see..

Ireland - Country?: Population: .3.7 million
Area: 70,282 sq. km.
GDP: 55million IRE or 70.94million U.S. dollars

New York City -CITY Population: 7 million
Area: 800sqkm
GDP 4thqtr NYC’s Gross City Product
increased by 2.8% in 2Q04, from $410.8 billion
to $413.7 billion



You mean like this? HEINZ WATTIE'S AUSTRALASIA - Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
HEINZ SINGAPORE PTE. LTD. - Republic of Singapore
HEINZ WATTIE'S LIMITED - Auckland, New Zealand
HEINZ JAPAN LTD - Tokyo, Japan
HEINZ-UFE LTD. - Guangzhou, People's Republic of China
HEINZ COSCO - Qingdao, People's Republic of China
HEINZ KOREA LTD. - Inchon, South Korea
HEINZ WIN CHANCE LTD. - Bangkok, Thailand
HEINZ INDIA PRIVATE LIMITED - Mumbai, India
PT HEINZ ABC INDONESIA - Jakarta, Indonesia
PT HEINZ SUPRAMA - Surabaya, Indonesia
HEINZ UFC PHILIPPINES - Manila, the Philippines
HEINZ HONG KONG LIMITED - Wanchai, Hong Kong
H. J. HEINZ (Botswana) (Proprietary) LTD. - Ga borone, Botswana
KGALAGADI SOAP INDUSTRIES (Pty) LTD. - Gaborone, Botswana
REFINED OIL PRODUCTS (Pty) LTD. - Gaborone, Botswana
OLIVINE INDUSTRIES (Private) LIMITED - Harare, Zimbabwe
CHEGUTU CANNERS (Pvt) LTD. - Chegutu, Zimbabwe
HEINZ SOUTH AFRICA (PTY) LTD. - Johannesburg, South Africa
HEINZ WELLINGTON'S (PTY) LTD. - Wellington, South Africa
HEINZ EUROPE - Hayes, Middlesex, England
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Hayes Park, Hayes, Middlesex, England
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Rovereto, Italy
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY LIMITED - Telford, England
JOHN WEST FOODS LIMITED - Liverpool, England
H. J. HEINZ FROZEN & CHILLED FOODS LIMITED - Hayes, Middlesex,
England
H. J. HEINZ COMPANY (IRELAND) LIMITED - Dublin, Ireland
H.J. HEINZ COMPANY OF CANADA LTD - North York, Ontario, Canada
OMSTEAD FOODS LIMITED - Wheatley, Ontario, Canada
ALIMENTOS HEINZ C.A. - Caracas, Venezuela
DISTRIBUIDORA BANQUETE, S.A. - San José* Costa Rica
HEI NZ ITALIA S.r.l. - Milan, Italy
FATTORIA SCALDASOLE, S.p.a. - Monguzzo, Italy
COPAIS FOOD AND BEVERAGE COMPANY, S.A. - Athens, Greece
HEINZ POLSKA Sp. Z.O.O. - Warsaw, Poland
PUDLISZKI S.A. - Pudliszki, Poland
WODZISLAW, S.A. - Wodzislaw, Poland
ETS. PAULET S.A. - Douarnenez, France
H. J. HEINZ FROZEN S.A.R.L. - Paris, France
HEINZ IBERICA S.A. - Madrid, Spain
IDAL (Industrias de Alimentacã * Lda.) - Lisbon, Portugal
MIEDZYCHOD S.A. - Miedzychod, Poland
HEINZ C.I.S. - Moscow, Russia
HEINZ GEORGIEVSK - Georgievsk, Russia
CAIRO FOOD INDUSTRIES SAE - Cairo, Egypt
HEINZ REMEDIA LIMITED - Tel Aviv, Israel
STAR-KIST FOOD DÂ'OR LIMITED - Haifa, Israel
H. J. HEINZ GMBH - Dí² í³¥ldorf, Germany
SONNEN BASSERMANN - Seesen, Germany
KONINKLIJKE DE RUIJTER BV - The Netherlands
HAK BV - The Netherlands
FOODMARK - The Netherlands
HONIG MERKARTIKELEN BV - The Netherlands
DRUKKERIJ DE GROENBOER - The Netherlands
H. J. HEINZ B.V . - Elst, The Netherlands
H. J. HEINZ BELGIUM S.A. - Brussels, Belgium
SERV-A-PORTION - Turnhout, Belgium
Arimpex Industrie Alimentari S.R.L. - Rovereto, Italy
Comexo S.A. - Chateaurenard, France
HEINZ EUROPE - UK and IRELAND - Factories: Chorley, Fakenham,
Grimsby,
Kendal, Kitt Green, Leaminton, Luton, Okehampton, Telford, Westwick

However, Please send us your money...We'll take it.

You can talk about the Cheney/Halburton (sp?) connection all you want, but did anyone notice that in this list of all the companies that have left the US shores for greener pastures the name of HEINZ? Hello... that's Mrs. Kerry. Those are her billions. If Kerry is so incensed about US companies heading off shore, he should look in the bed next to him first. Can you imagine the effect on the voters if he went before the cameras and said that he has just "ordered his wife to bring back all the Heinz company's holdings back to the US" and to stop out-sourcing? He'd knock Bush right out of the election.

 

[Carrera]

Another problem is the media. The media tends to churn out a lot of propaganda so views in a particular country tend to reflect media influence.
With regard to the Iraq issue what's needed are concrete, balanced facts but my own take on the issue is as follows:
The Bush Administration figured that the removal of Hussein and the installment of a democracy in Iraq would make the Iraqi population grateful and lead to a prosperous economy in the Middle East. This would then trigger a collapse of the regimes in Iran and elsewhere and the eventual emergence of democratic values in the Middle East as a whole. Unfortunately, this view is too simplistic.
The thing is, though, did the American people really have a choice in the Iraq war? Would it have made any difference if the Democrats had been in office? There lies the problem.
In the Greece of 400 B.C. decisions on major issues such as going to war were made by the electorate and through direct voting. Modern day governments make decisons over the heads of those they claim to represent. If, say, as much as 50 pre cent of a population is wholly against war, how do they get their views represented? Even Kerry has no intention of ending any occupation of Iraq as far as I can gather.
If democracy means a "sovereign reign of the people" why don't modern so-called democracies involve the people in any decisions that are taken? If 50 per cent of the US population opposed the war (or were led to believe Saddam Hussein backed the 9/11 attacks), is that a democratic justification for the present policy? I suspect there is no majority backing for the war in Iraq in the way people backed the war with Nazi Germany in the forties.
At least 50 per cent of the U.K. population opposed war in Iraq yet we supported the policy. In my book that simply isn't democracy since democracy involves addressing the interests and views of a country's inhabitants. So, how can democracy ever be established in Iraq if we don't yet have it in the West?

Discussions on politics, religion, and sports will always descend into insults. People hold these opinions close and feel when someone questions them they are being attacked personally. I've always thought it odd that someone lashes out at anothers opinions to defend their own. We all have that defense mechanism that kicks in when we feel we are being attacked. In order to have a political discussion you have to intentionally shut off that mechanism. Its hard to listen to other opinions when the wall comes up automatically.

 

[davidmc]

Cheney/Bush(in that order) ought to be brought up on charges for criminal misconduct & be impeached or censured on the floor of the senate. The only problem is, i can't figure out which one is the pres. Dubya or Uncle **** Just checking in.

 

[davidmc]

Another problem is the media. The media tends to churn out a lot of propaganda so views in a particular country tend to reflect media influence.
With regard to the Iraq issue what's needed are concrete, balanced facts but my own take on the issue is as follows:
The Bush Administration figured that the removal of Hussein and the installment of a democracy in Iraq would make the Iraqi population grateful and lead to a prosperous economy in the Middle East. This would then trigger a collapse of the regimes in Iran and elsewhere and the eventual emergence of democratic values in the Middle East as a whole. Unfortunately, this view is too simplistic.
The thing is, though, did the American people really have a choice in the Iraq war? Would it have made any difference if the Democrats had been in office? There lies the problem.
In the Greece of 400 B.C. decisions on major issues such as going to war were made by the electorate and through direct voting. Modern day governments make decisons over the heads of those they claim to represent. If, say, as much as 50 pre cent of a population is wholly against war, how do they get their views represented? Even Kerry has no intention of ending any occupation of Iraq as far as I can gather.
If democracy means a "sovereign reign of the people" why don't modern so-called democracies involve the people in any decisions that are taken? If 50 per cent of the US population opposed the war (or were led to believe Saddam Hussein backed the 9/11 attacks), is that a democratic justification for the present policy? I suspect there is no majority backing for the war in Iraq in the way people backed the war with Nazi Germany in the forties.
At least 50 per cent of the U.K. population opposed war in Iraq yet we supported the policy. In my book that simply isn't democracy since democracy involves addressing the interests and views of a country's inhabitants. So, how can democracy ever be established in Iraq if we don't yet have it in the West?

The U.S. is a reresentative republic, look at the pledge of allegiance (...& to the republic for which it stands...) or more precisely a "corporatocracy". We are a nation governed by corporations & their lobbyists. Look at Cheney's "ultra secret" energy task force. **** probably said "...you boys write it up & when i get back from the golfcourse i'll give it to jr. to sign." It's sickening but it's true. It's gov't "sold to the highest bidder" & it probably would'nt be all that different from the dem's, just different companies although the dem's would be less rapacious than the repub's. The repub's steal from the people in broad daylight. It's odd because thier middleclass supporter's, even after that, continue to support them. It's like the "rich" leading the "un-rich" (bush's word). I got to hand it to them though, it just proves the maxim: "the best place to hide something is in plain view" No offense to you right leaning fellows. It would be comical, the repub's actions, if it were'nt so tragic, the ripping out by the roots of the avg. citizens capacity to compete in the marketplace of idea's (lobbyist's have that one), voting (Diebold[ a vocal republican supporter] has a good part of that one & keeping wages commensurate w/ the rising cost of living. Has the price of a barrel of oil ever been this high before-$53(u.s.), w/ the winter coming on too. I expect some repub's to "see the light" defect this winter. Nice thread, Lim. keep it up.

 

[Bikerman2004]

You can talk about the Cheney/Halburton (sp?) connection all you want, but did anyone notice that in this list of all the companies that have left the US shores for greener pastures the name of HEINZ? Hello... that's Mrs. Kerry. Those are her billions. If Kerry is so incensed about US companies heading off shore, he should look in the bed next to him first. Can you imagine the effect on the voters if he went before the cameras and said that he has just "ordered his wife to bring back all the Heinz company's holdings back to the US" and to stop out-sourcing? He'd knock Bush right out of the election.

Teresa Heinz Kerry has no control over the Heinz Co. She made her money from the death of her husband John Heinz, who was an heir to the Heinz fortune. I don't much care for Teresa Heinz but let's be fair and honest.

 

[Carrera]

Briefly, I don't live in the U.S. but my feeling is that Kerry is the way to go. I imagine that if he gets in, he'll probably involve other countries more directly in the Iraq situation - the only way the whole mess can be sorted out.
The Bush Administration simply believed it would be a simple task to topple Saddam and create a new democracy in a country that has no experience of democracy over thousands of years. The people were supposed to be full of gratitude, foreign companies could gain access to oil revenues and then other Middle East regimes would crumble as Iraq got richer and somehow westernised. Sounds a bit like trying to skip a whole chunk out of history.

The U.S. is a reresentative republic, look at the pledge of allegiance (...& to the republic for which it stands...) or more precisely a "corporatocracy". We are a nation governed by corporations & their lobbyists. Look at Cheney's "ultra secret" energy task force. **** probably said "...you boys write it up & when i get back from the golfcourse i'll give it to jr. to sign." It's sickening but it's true. It's gov't "sold to the highest bidder" & it probably would'nt be all that different from the dem's, just different companies although the dem's would be less rapacious than the repub's. The repub's steal from the people in broad daylight. It's odd because thier middleclass supporter's, even after that, continue to support them. It's like the "rich" leading the "un-rich" (bush's word). I got to hand it to them though, it just proves the maxim: "the best place to hide something is in plain view" No offense to you right leaning fellows. It would be comical, the repub's actions, if it were'nt so tragic, the ripping out by the roots of the avg. citizens capacity to compete in the marketplace of idea's (lobbyist's have that one), voting (Diebold[ a vocal republican supporter] has a good part of that one & keeping wages commensurate w/ the rising cost of living. Has the price of a barrel of oil ever been this high before-$53(u.s.), w/ the winter coming on too. I expect some repub's to "see the light" defect this winter. Nice thread, Lim. keep it up.

 

[Carrera]

Another point is there are new plans to invade Iran. Whether these will change if Kerry gets in I can't say.
Again, the problem is that something has to be put in place of any regime that's knocked down. I can't really see how Iraq will regain any semblance of stability for decades to come - unless some kind of internationally-endorsed election is held. So, the worst scenario is that Iraq will become a terrorist haven for kidnappings, banditry and chaos. Incidentally did anyone hear about Billy Connoly getting into hot-water over Iraq? Apparently he cracked a joke about a hostage situation that didn't do down too well with the audience and media.

Briefly, I don't live in the U.S. but my feeling is that Kerry is the way to go. I imagine that if he gets in, he'll probably involve other countries more directly in the Iraq situation - the only way the whole mess can be sorted out.
The Bush Administration simply believed it would be a simple task to topple Saddam and create a new democracy in a country that has no experience of democracy over thousands of years. The people were supposed to be full of gratitude, foreign companies could gain access to oil revenues and then other Middle East regimes would crumble as Iraq got richer and somehow westernised. Sounds a bit like trying to skip a whole chunk out of history.