Lemond v. Trek



[email protected] wrote:
>> what he alleges is true, I bet he wins his suit.

>
> Win or lose, no more Trek production of Lemond bikes. Will someone
> else pick up the name? After the first Lemond bikes (can't remember
> the name of the maker), Target & Trek, who would touch it. Giant?
>
> Any bets on when Trek announces its new line of Lance Armstrong brand
> of bikes? Will they wait until the suits are over or settled?
>
> Or will Trek keep making the steel lemonds and put another name on
> them? "Davis Phinny bikes" "Zabriski bikes" "Levi bikes" "Flandis
> bikes" "Tilford bikes" "Bostasaurus bikes".
>


you forgot the "Tom Kunich", that would be so appropriate...
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:171719a1-0037-4fb7-8018-e4ee276151fc@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> what he alleges is true, I bet he wins his suit.

>
> Win or lose, no more Trek production of Lemond bikes. Will someone
> else pick up the name? After the first Lemond bikes (can't remember
> the name of the maker), Target & Trek, who would touch it. Giant?
>
> Any bets on when Trek announces its new line of Lance Armstrong brand
> of bikes? Will they wait until the suits are over or settled?
>
> Or will Trek keep making the steel lemonds and put another name on
> them? "Davis Phinny bikes" "Zabriski bikes" "Levi bikes" "Flandis
> bikes" "Tilford bikes" "Bostasaurus bikes".
>
> www.lemondbikes.com is still up. Guess Burke hasn't pulled the plug
> on that yet. tic toc tic toc..... Or is this treks ploy to look
> innocent while putting up such biased statements. That and putting up
> the time lines and suit summarys.


Trek had/has a *lot* of explaining to do. They have a whole lot of dealers
with inventory of LeMond bikes who want to know what's going on, and why.
Doesn't it make sense for them to put everything they can out in public, as
quickly as possible? Beyond the fact that dealers are *owed* an explanation
(after all, we have a lot of inventory $$$ on the line), it makes sense to
try and get back to business as quickly as possible and that, again,
requires that you answer as many questions as you possibly can, as fast as
you can, preferably before they're even asked. That's simply good business.

What's perhaps most admirable is the absolute secrecy about this decision.
I'm one of the more-curious dealers, always wanting to know what's going on
behind the scenes. And just three days ago I asked what the future status of
LeMond is, since I've openly questioned the wisdom of having a line whose
namesake and spokesperson is so intensely negative about the current cycling
scene (it definitely costs me sales). And I was told that LeMond remains a
part of the Trek family and will continue.

The claim that Trek didn't promote the LeMond brand as they should have,
that they didn't support it with product, is bogus. LeMond got a total
redesign of their frame (the min-max carbon) well ahead of Trek's new Madone
design, and they made a HUGE deal of it. They even flew a bunch of dealers
back to Wisconsin to ride the Trek 100 fund-raiser on the new machines. And
they certainly put a lot of energy into the website and catalog. Despite the
fact that LeMond was obviously a much-smaller brand than Trek, it appeared
they received far more than their fair share of resources in Wisconsin.

And yet, Greg just couldn't focus on delivering a positive message about
cycling. I don't know if he understood that many of the things he was saying
(true or not is almost irrelevant) were detrimental to sales. We had
customers who wouldn't even consider a LeMond because of Greg's musings in
the press about how everyone was doping and that he was essentially the last
clean athlete in the world etc.

The most-frustrating thing about all this is that virtually everyone who has
ever met Greg, or been to an event where he talked about his TdF
experiences, comes away incredibly impressed with the guy. He seems
genuinely interested in what you have to say. He's funny, engaging, and
clearly loves the stage. And his "bad peach" story is hilarious. He doesn't
seem at all like the person in the press who believes he would have won 32
tours if the world hadn't conspired against him (the infamous "virtual" TdF
victories). There's no hint of the "victim mode" he is prone to when being
interviewed. Not that he hasn't been through some horrible things in his
life! And it seems that bad things tend to follow him, like the business
associate of Floyd Landis making the bogus phone call.

Greg remains one of the GREAT cyclists of all time. That cannot be taken
away from him, nor taken for granted. That, alone, would be enough for most
people. But somehow he focuses instead on what could have been. From my
standpoint, what could have been would be a phenomenally-successful bicycle
line, if only he hadn't decided it was more important to spend his time
accusing people of doping.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
 
On Apr 8, 8:13 pm, "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dans le message denews:296a92c7-da10-412d-8fa4-cd73273616e2@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
> RicodJour <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 8, 7:41 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:

>
> >> Win or lose, no more Trek production of Lemond bikes. Will someone
> >> else pick up the name? After the first Lemond bikes (can't remember
> >> the name of the maker), Target & Trek, who would touch it. Giant?

>
> >> Any bets on when Trek announces its new line of Lance Armstrong brand
> >> of bikes? Will they wait until the suits are over or settled?

>
> >> Or will Trek keep making the steel lemonds and put another name on
> >> them? "Davis Phinny bikes" "Zabriski bikes" "Levi bikes" "Flandis
> >> bikes" "Tilford bikes" "Bostasaurus bikes".

>
> >>www.lemondbikes.comisstill up. Guess Burke hasn't pulled the plug
> >> on that yet. tic toc tic toc..... Or is this treks ploy to look
> >> innocent while putting up such biased statements. That and putting
> >> up the time lines and suit summarys.

>
> > I'd rather those sort of self-serving statements than the ego-fodder
> > than Greggie's lawyers wrote up. The first items in his complaint are
> > a paean to all that is Lemond. As always, first and foremost, it's
> > all about Greg. He's like a Steve Jobs without the business acumen
> > and charisma.

>
> Did someone tell you that legal pleadings are supposed to be even-handed?


Oh man, next thing you're going to be telling me that the girls in
Playboy aren't virgins. You're a cynic, or a cygnet, can't remember
which - but definitely one or the other. :)~

> Did you also look at the Trek papers?


I think Greg might be trying for an end run - suing TREK and trying to
subpoena LANCE. That would definitely prove that Greg should have all
of his wins AND all of LANCE's wins. Imagine! TEN TdF wins! Nobody
will ever touch that.

R
 
On Apr 8, 9:05 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Trek had/has a *lot* of explaining to do. They have a whole lot of dealers
> with inventory of LeMond bikes who want to know what's going on, and why.
> Doesn't it make sense for them to put everything they can out in public, as
> quickly as possible? Beyond the fact that dealers are *owed* an explanation
> (after all, we have a lot of inventory $$$ on the line), it makes sense to
> try and get back to business as quickly as possible and that, again,
> requires that you answer as many questions as you possibly can, as fast as
> you can, preferably before they're even asked. That's simply good business.


Will RBRers get early notice of when the Lemond fire sale starts?
Please let me know. Thanks.

R

PS How much extra to take off the decals?
 
On Apr 8, 10:22 am, Geraard Spergen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Interesting.  There will be some kind of settlement.  Both sides will
> eventually run out of ****.


I've heard there is plenty of beer in both Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Plenty beer = plenty ****, no need to run out.

ABS
 
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0f76295b-9f45-4ee8-94e2-1253bc3c8887@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 8, 9:05 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Trek had/has a *lot* of explaining to do. They have a whole lot of
>> dealers
>> with inventory of LeMond bikes who want to know what's going on, and why.
>> Doesn't it make sense for them to put everything they can out in public,
>> as
>> quickly as possible? Beyond the fact that dealers are *owed* an
>> explanation
>> (after all, we have a lot of inventory $$$ on the line), it makes sense
>> to
>> try and get back to business as quickly as possible and that, again,
>> requires that you answer as many questions as you possibly can, as fast
>> as
>> you can, preferably before they're even asked. That's simply good
>> business.

>
> Will RBRers get early notice of when the Lemond fire sale starts?
> Please let me know. Thanks.
>
> PS How much extra to take off the decals?


Do you have any business knowledge at all? LeMond brand name belongs to Trek
and they can do whatever they want with it as I understand it. They've
CHOSEN to keep Greg on as a spokesman and that has continuously bit them in
the butt since Greg is a notorious whiner whenever he gets in the limelight.

LeMond will always be THE first American to win a Tour de France. Too bad he
can't be satisfied with that.
 
In article <[email protected]>, dave a <[email protected]>
wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
> >> what he alleges is true, I bet he wins his suit.

> >
> > Win or lose, no more Trek production of Lemond bikes. Will someone
> > else pick up the name? After the first Lemond bikes (can't remember
> > the name of the maker), Target & Trek, who would touch it. Giant?
> >
> > Any bets on when Trek announces its new line of Lance Armstrong brand
> > of bikes? Will they wait until the suits are over or settled?
> >
> > Or will Trek keep making the steel lemonds and put another name on
> > them? "Davis Phinny bikes" "Zabriski bikes" "Levi bikes" "Flandis
> > bikes" "Tilford bikes" "Bostasaurus bikes".
> >

>
> you forgot the "Tom Kunich", that would be so appropriate...


They'd all end up in his garage.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
On Apr 9, 1:16 am, Howard Kveck wrote:

>    They'd all end up in his garage.


Especially would they remain in his garage after he posted FS ads in
rbm, asking more than three times what he previously, and
disparagingly, pontificated their market value to be. --D-y
 
On Apr 9, 1:27 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:0f76295b-9f45-4ee8-94e2-1253bc3c8887@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Apr 8, 9:05 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >> Trek had/has a *lot* of explaining to do. They have a whole lot of
> >> dealers
> >> with inventory of LeMond bikes who want to know what's going on, and why.
> >> Doesn't it make sense for them to put everything they can out in public,
> >> as
> >> quickly as possible? Beyond the fact that dealers are *owed* an
> >> explanation
> >> (after all, we have a lot of inventory $$$ on the line), it makes sense
> >> to
> >> try and get back to business as quickly as possible and that, again,
> >> requires that you answer as many questions as you possibly can, as fast
> >> as
> >> you can, preferably before they're even asked. That's simply good
> >> business.

>
> > Will RBRers get early notice of when the Lemond fire sale starts?
> > Please let me know. Thanks.

>
> > PS How much extra to take off the decals?

>
> Do you have any business knowledge at all? LeMond brand name belongs to Trek
> and they can do whatever they want with it as I understand it. They've
> CHOSEN to keep Greg on as a spokesman and that has continuously bit them in
> the butt since Greg is a notorious whiner whenever he gets in the limelight.


Quit posturing. I'm first in line for the fire sale.

On the topic of business acumen, do you believe these lawsuits will
help the sale of Lemond bikes? You can count on Greg making things
worse, so what's in it for TREK? They should get out while the
getting is relatively good. I'd market Lemond kids bikes and put them
in Walmart and Costco.

> LeMond will always be THE first American to win a Tour de France. Too bad he
> can't be satisfied with that.


Really? Gee, I didn't know that..the first? Wow. I thought he was
the actor in Breaking Away.

R
 
On Apr 8, 9:05 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Trek had/has a *lot* of explaining to do. They have a whole lot of dealers
> with inventory of LeMond bikes who want to know what's going on, and why.
> Doesn't it make sense for them to put everything they can out in public, as
> quickly as possible? Beyond the fact that dealers are *owed* an explanation
> (after all, we have a lot of inventory $$$ on the line), it makes sense to
> try and get back to business as quickly as possible and that, again,
> requires that you answer as many questions as you possibly can, as fast as
> you can, preferably before they're even asked. That's simply good business..
>
> What's perhaps most admirable is the absolute secrecy about this decision.
> I'm one of the more-curious dealers, always wanting to know what's going on
> behind the scenes. And just three days ago I asked what the future status of
> LeMond is, since I've openly questioned the wisdom of having a line whose
> namesake and spokesperson is so intensely negative about the current cycling
> scene (it definitely costs me sales). And I was told that LeMond remains a
> part of the Trek family and will continue.
>
> The claim that Trek didn't promote the LeMond brand as they should have,
> that they didn't support it with product, is bogus. LeMond got a total
> redesign of their frame (the min-max carbon) well ahead of Trek's new Madone
> design, and they made a HUGE deal of it. They even flew a bunch of dealers
> back to Wisconsin to ride the Trek 100 fund-raiser on the new machines. And
> they certainly put a lot of energy into the website and catalog. Despite the
> fact that LeMond was obviously a much-smaller brand than Trek, it appeared
> they received far more than their fair share of resources in Wisconsin.
>
> And yet, Greg just couldn't focus on delivering a positive message about
> cycling. I don't know if he understood that many of the things he was saying
> (true or not is almost irrelevant) were detrimental to sales. We had
> customers who wouldn't even consider a LeMond because of Greg's musings in
> the press about how everyone was doping and that he was essentially the last
> clean athlete in the world etc.
>
> The most-frustrating thing about all this is that virtually everyone who has
> ever met Greg, or been to an event where he talked about his TdF
> experiences, comes away incredibly impressed with the guy. He seems
> genuinely interested in what you have to say. He's funny, engaging, and
> clearly loves the stage. And his "bad peach" story is hilarious. He doesn't
> seem at all like the person in the press who believes he would have won 32
> tours if the world hadn't conspired against him (the infamous "virtual" TdF
> victories). There's no hint of the "victim mode" he is prone to when being
> interviewed. Not that he hasn't been through some horrible things in his
> life! And it seems that bad things tend to follow him, like the business
> associate of Floyd Landis making the bogus phone call.
>
> Greg remains one of the GREAT cyclists of all time. That cannot be taken
> away from him, nor taken for granted. That, alone, would be enough for most
> people. But somehow he focuses instead on what could have been. From my
> standpoint, what could have been would be a phenomenally-successful bicycle
> line, if only he hadn't decided it was more important to spend his time
> accusing people of doping.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Thanks Mike I was hoping you'd weigh in, and knew you'd have been
asking questions. Really appreciate the good info you add for us.
Bill C
 
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Really? Gee, I didn't know that..the first? Wow. I thought he was
> the actor in Breaking Away.


Gee, and all this time I assumed from your attitude that you were only 12.
 
On Apr 9, 10:17 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Really? Gee, I didn't know that..the first? Wow. I thought he was
> > the actor in Breaking Away.

>
> Gee, and all this time I assumed from your attitude that you were only 12.


Thanks! I try to be young at heart instead of a bitter old man.

R
 
On Apr 8, 9:05 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ... He doesn't
> seem at all like the person in the press who believes he would have won 32
> tours if the world hadn't conspired against him (the infamous "virtual" TdF
> victories).


Hm...does this fall into the virtual win category:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2008/news_trek_lemond08

"...The third count is "breach of contract", and here LeMond stands by
all his previous comments about cycling and Armstrong, and that Trek
has "failed" to uphold its contractual obligations that ... "has
caused LeMond Cycling to lose revenue in an amount to be proven at
trial".... "
 
> > Or will Trek keep making the steel lemonds and put another name on
> > them? "Davis Phinny bikes" "Zabriski bikes" "Levi bikes" "Flandis
> > bikes" "Tilford bikes" "Bostasaurus bikes".

>
> you forgot the "Tom Kunich", that would be so appropriate...


No way. No one outside of rbr has ever hear of him.
 
"Victor Kan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:acdb0329-1c68-4637-b73a-a352387ff138@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 8, 9:05 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ... He doesn't
>> seem at all like the person in the press who believes he would have won
>> 32
>> tours if the world hadn't conspired against him (the infamous "virtual"
>> TdF
>> victories).

>
> Hm...does this fall into the virtual win category:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2008/news_trek_lemond08
>
> "...The third count is "breach of contract", and here LeMond stands by
> all his previous comments about cycling and Armstrong, and that Trek
> has "failed" to uphold its contractual obligations that ... "has
> caused LeMond Cycling to lose revenue in an amount to be proven at
> trial".... "


Let's just say it's consistent with the previously-established concept of
the "virtual win."

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
 
On Apr 8, 5:05 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Trek had/has a *lot* of explaining to do. They have a whole lot of dealers
> with inventory of LeMond bikes who want to know what's going on, and why.
> Doesn't it make sense for them to put everything they can out in public, as
> quickly as possible? Beyond the fact that dealers are *owed* an explanation
> (after all, we have a lot of inventory $$$ on the line), it makes sense to
> try and get back to business as quickly as possible and that, again,
> requires that you answer as many questions as you possibly can, as fast as
> you can, preferably before they're even asked. That's simply good business.
> ...


That's a very thoughtful post from the business perspective. It is
interesting that Trek has put Greg's suit verbatim on their website.
People don't normally present both sides of a story like that, so Trek
must see it as an advantage.

It's really too bad. In his prime Greg was a great asset to the
cycling community. As you say, "he's funny, engaging, and clearly
loves the stage." In the beginning I thought LA was surly and did not
come off well at all compared with Greg, but LA grew into his role.
Greg's degenerated. It's a shame, I think he'd have been great doing
commentary on the tour, for example.

-Paul
 
On Apr 9, 12:36 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > > Or will Trek keep making the steel lemonds and put another name on
> > > them?  "Davis Phinny bikes"  "Zabriski bikes" "Levi bikes" "Flandis
> > > bikes" "Tilford bikes"  "Bostasaurus bikes".

>
> > you forgot the "Tom Kunich", that would be so appropriate...

>
> No way.  No one outside of rbr has ever hear of him.


Tom is working very, very hard to rectify (or was that rectumfy?) the
situation:

http://groups.google.com/groups/pro...AANgBBgUwG_r7LXrconLiLgWMj6vob75xS36mXc24h6ww

Or:

http://tinyurl.com/423wbc

158 groups, 9424 posts. And that's just one user name. He has used
another one, but I guess the point is made? --D-y
 
On Apr 9, 4:44 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 9, 12:36 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > > > Or will Trek keep making the steel lemonds and put another name on
> > > > them?  "Davis Phinny bikes"  "Zabriski bikes" "Levi bikes" "Flandis
> > > > bikes" "Tilford bikes"  "Bostasaurus bikes".

>
> > > you forgot the "Tom Kunich", that would be so appropriate...

>
> > No way.  No one outside of rbr has ever hear of him.

>
> Tom is working very, very hard to rectify (or was that rectumfy?) the
> situation:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=3txmJxMAAAANgBBgUwG_...
>
> Or:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/423wbc
>
> 158 groups, 9424 posts. And that's just one user name. He has used
> another one, but I guess the point is made?  --D-y


I just checked mine too. A lot of that was stuff that got crossposted
when Gummer Wingnut was here spouting his ****. There're only 6 I go
to regularly and the three top groups after rbr were all from that
****. I have no idea how a few got posted to once or twice.
Bill C
 
On Apr 9, 5:11 pm, Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I just checked mine too. A lot of that was stuff that got crossposted
> when Gummer Wingnut was here spouting his ****. There're only 6 I go
> to regularly and the three top groups after rbr were all from that
> ****. I have no idea how a few got posted to once or twice.


Gumbie was just on rec.bicycles.tech spouting about the proper way to
carry a gun to protect yourself from dogs. He's like **** on a shoe.
Someone crossposts a question and he's all over Usenet.

R
 

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