Originally Posted by Colnago62
He didn't say that. What he did say was developing more strength than needed for an athlete's given discipline is probably a waste of energy. Since this article is about rowing, he then goes about trying to quantify exactly how much strength that is. To imply that cyclists don't need strength is not accurate. Cycling events last less then a minute and also can last days at a time. The real question is does the cyclist have enough strength for the event they are training for. That question isn't always easily answered.
As far as weight training on the bike, from what I've seen the majority of riders that do participate are mostly track guys, and then mostly sprinters. I don't have much involvement with that scene so I'm speculating a bit, but that is still a very small percentage of riders overall. As for road riders who lift, they strike me as the exception, not the rule.Originally Posted by Colnago62
I can't think of a national senior program that doesn't use some form of strength training as part of the program for the speed guys. Which ones am I missing?
Originally Posted by Colnago62
He didn't say that. What he did say was developing more strength than needed for an athlete's given discipline is probably a waste of energy. Since this article is about rowing, he then goes about trying to quantify exactly how much strength that is. To imply that cyclists don't need strength is not accurate. Cycling events last less then a minute and also can last days at a time. The real question is does the cyclist have enough strength for the event they are training for. That question isn't always easily answered.
Just to be clear I have been full disclosure that I did massive work on the stair machine in addition to weights. In fact it rained yesterday and I hit it hard again, My legs are gassed today.Originally Posted by Felt_Rider
Okay, now your posts are starting to focus in on a unique group of cyclist that has a specific title. You are now talking about strength training for a specific activity and one which I mentioned at the tail end of my last post that I step aside and let fergie, who coaches track athletes to tell me if strength training is mandatory or not.
However, up until you became specific you have been painting with a really broad brush as I highlighted in your quote above. Those who are new to endurance cycling (the majority that visit this forum are recreational level endurance based cyclists) these posts sends a very confusing message and may lead them to chase after the wrong training methods.
If you had used Kilo cyclist or something specific like that I probably would have not responded, but your posts uses the generic label of cyclists.
In Ira's post he mentions that lifting helped his FTP. I say kudos to the improvement, but he would be the rare individual that raised FTP (that I am aware) by lifting since lifting is a very short duration and not aerobic (typically since I have never heard of anyone squatting for an hour straight and if they were capable that is not strength training) and training to improve FTP is generally thought to happen through aerobic type training.
Because they have always done weights.Originally Posted by Colnago62
I can't think of a national senior program that doesn't use some form of strength training as part of the program for the speed guys. Which ones am I missing?
Most Elite riders doing Kilo or Keirin are riding between 98 - 116in gears and have no problem getting underway. I have my U19 women heading to Junior Worlds doing starts on a 98in gear and they have no problem getting off the line. Trick is to get the technique right off the line. That can't be replicated in the gym.Originally Posted by Colnago62
Kilo riding has the issue of overcoming a less than optimal gear in beginning of the event. That is where strength really comes into play; being able to quickly get 94 gear inches up to a high cadence. Once you are on top of the gear, it becomes a matter of how long you can hold that speed till lactic acid takes over.
Originally Posted by fergie
A 15 year old girl weighing 53kg putting out World Class 5s power (Andy Coggan Power Profile) who has never been to the gym.
As she went into U19 was worried about going from a restricted gear of 53 x 17 but after a few rides was doing it easy.
I clearly need to get into the gym more. Plus ride my bike and lay off the bagels.
Olivia is now in the gym. Part of that is most gyms do not allow people under 16 to train there. But most of her gains as a sprinter will come from sprinting. Specificity.Originally Posted by needmoreair
So is her ability to do tha just a result of muscle fiber makeup? And if so, is there anything that can be done to overcome a significant amount of slow twitch vs fast twitch fibers?
If a person is looking to improve max power output (for a sprint), would the gym be a waste? What would help? Stomps or big gear work? Just sprinting?
This is the type of posts that I like to read because it is carefully worded unlike certain posts that toss the "strength" word around without much thought. Fergie gets it just as I would expect a coach and sports science type guy to get and I can only hope that I use cycling terminology correctly when I attempt to discuss cycling training. As mentioned before if I were asked if I strength trained my answer would be no. I do train at the gym 5 days a week and have for over 30 years. I used to strength train long ago with focused efforts on improving in certain lifts. The primary was squat and at one time I set my focus on achieving a max lift on a drug free hack squat personal best. I did hit that goal of a 1 x 600 full depth hack squat at 175 lb bodyweight and actually got 3 reps on that particular day. The whole gym stopped to watch. My best lift ever but there is no hack squat competition so it's just a fond memory.Originally Posted by fergie
Because they have always done weights.
In NZ when our juniors are inducted into high performance programmes the gym sessions are compulsory even if they are endurance athletes.
A major movement from with within strength and conditioning is drop the term strength and to focus on conditioning as this is a requisite for all sports. If you understand the demands of cycling, even the sprint events, then you would understand how little strength contributes to the process.
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