Mel Gibsons True Colors?

[Carrera]

His view that Jews are behind all wars (expressed after an alcoholic binge) seems a bit unfair to me. I mean, come on! What about the Japanese and the way they treated allied POW's in WW2 and how they treated the Chinese?
Israel doesn't have that kind of human rights record on its conscience.
You could successfully argue that Jews did have something to do with global communism seeing as Lenin and trotsky were both Jewish but, even in that case, communism came from the Greeks and the first neo-communist in Russia was Tolstoy. The you have Marx who was German.
By the same token, it would also be unfair to say that all Moslems are extremists and any public figure who made such a comment should likewise apologise.

Mel is a great actor,off his rocker a bit ,but so are a lot of people.

 

[2FAST4U]

His view that Jews are behind all wars (expressed after an alcoholic binge) seems a bit unfair to me. I mean, come on! What about the Japanese and the way they treated allied POW's in WW2 and how they treated the Chinese?
Israel doesn't have that kind of human rights record on its conscience.
You could successfully argue that Jews did have something to do with global communism seeing as Lenin and trotsky were both Jewish but, even in that case, communism came from the Greeks and the first neo-communist in Russia was Tolstoy. The you have Marx who was German.
By the same token, it would also be unfair to say that all Moslems are extremists and any public figure who made such a comment should likewise apologise.

I find it amusing that there are people here that are so ****** off at Mel Gibson (Trust me, I’m not taking up for the guy) but…These same people are not as upset as some TERROR GROUPS or ….uh, the bozo from Iran for all the threats he has made towards the Hebrew people. Let me think who is more dangerous…A middle age alcoholic actor or a leader of a country with the firepower to back up his threats…I mean what is Mel going to do…vomit them to death???? Tell stupid jokes? Steal their lampshades????

 

[jhuskey]

Actor,Definition:

1. performer in plays: somebody who acts in plays, movies, or television


2. somebody who pretends: somebody who pretends to be somebody else or to feel something so as to impress or deceive


Not to be confused with someone that has informed political views or should be taken seriously and has a valuable perspective on real life .
For entertainment purposes only. Like the internet.

 

[2FAST4U]

Actor,Definition:

1. performer in plays: somebody who acts in plays, movies, or television

MEL GIBSON

2. somebody who pretends: somebody who pretends to be somebody else or to feel something so as to impress or deceive

Wurm

Not to be confused with someone that has informed political views or should be taken seriously and has a valuable perspective on real life .
For entertainment purposes only. Like the internet.

Me

hmmm...Hey did I pass the test?

 

[darkboong]

I find it amusing that there are people here that are so ****** off at Mel Gibson (Trust me, I’m not taking up for the guy) but…

Can't say that I am too bothered by Melly being Smelly.

These same people are not as upset as some TERROR GROUPS or ….uh, the bozo from Iran for all the threats he has made towards the Hebrew people.

Prove it.

Let me think who is more dangerous…A middle age alcoholic actor or a leader of a country with the firepower to back up his threats…

Fair point. Let's have a quick review of the situation.

"we're going to turn Lebanon back into what it was 20 years ago," - Dan Halutz - Chief of Staff (IDF)

"According to Israeli army radio on July 24, he ordered the destruction of 10 multistory buildings in the Shiite-inhabited suburbs of Beirut for every rocket hitting Haifa." - referring to Dan Halutz

900 dead Lebanese civillians, $2bn of infrastructure damage, 1 million new refugees (25% of the population of Lebanon), and a colony of green turtles say that Dan Halutz and Ehud Olmert are far more dangerous than Mel Gibson or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It would be nice if I could put Halutz and Olmert into the big mouth no trousers category along with Mel Gibson and the Iranian President.

The record has to go to Tony Blair and George Bush though, GWB called for a "crusade", Tony waved his Bent as a Nine Bob Note Dossier, and lo and behold a few hundred thousand victims later there is full blown civil war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As a sideline to their multi-million civillian murder & refugee rap Tony Blair and GWB fly big bombs to their chums Olmert and Halutz so they can make more refugees, kill more civillians, blow up more bridges, airports, docks, hospitals, petrol stations, and Dan's personal favourite : Multistory appartment blocks.

In a civilised society that lot would be confined to solitary confinement in a padded cell until they died.

 

[Carrera]

I think when I slip up, it's not so bad. I can afford to make slips - hell, I'm just a cyclist with an opinion. Mel Gibson, however, has a fantastic, multimillion dollar career and he can't afford to stereotype.
I only just corrected a girlfriend in America when she talked about America vs the Moslems. This is the same mistake Mel Gibson made. There are thousands of Moslems who don't believe in any violence or mixing religion with violence. It would be just as much a mistake to tar all Moslems with the same brush. It's unfair to to generalise about Jews as Mel did. Besides, one of the most radical ant-Lebanon war protesters we have in the Government over here is Jewish - the guy they kicked out of Parliament not too long ago.
In short - people are people.
Still, Mel Gibson made a sincere apology and I think he should be allowed to move on and get on with his life.
As for Iran, I heard the other day they had directly threatened the U.S. and are certainly making a lot of noise. I saw shots of them burning Amnerican and Jewish flags. Then on ABC news I heard many American churches believe it's Armageddon coming.

I find it amusing that there are people here that are so ****** off at Mel Gibson (Trust me, I’m not taking up for the guy) but…These same people are not as upset as some TERROR GROUPS or ….uh, the bozo from Iran for all the threats he has made towards the Hebrew people. Let me think who is more dangerous…A middle age alcoholic actor or a leader of a country with the firepower to back up his threats…I mean what is Mel going to do…vomit them to death???? Tell stupid jokes? Steal their lampshades????

 

[Carrera]

"According to Israeli army radio on July 24, he ordered the destruction of 10 multistory buildings in the Shiite-inhabited suburbs of Beirut for every rocket hitting Haifa." - referring to Dan Halutz."

Mel Gibson did that??? Now I'm really getting confused.

Can't say that I am too bothered by Melly being Smelly.



Prove it.



Fair point. Let's have a quick review of the situation.

"we're going to turn Lebanon back into what it was 20 years ago," - Dan Halutz - Chief of Staff (IDF)

"According to Israeli army radio on July 24, he ordered the destruction of 10 multistory buildings in the Shiite-inhabited suburbs of Beirut for every rocket hitting Haifa." - referring to Dan Halutz

900 dead Lebanese civillians, $2bn of infrastructure damage, 1 million new refugees (25% of the population of Lebanon), and a colony of green turtles say that Dan Halutz and Ehud Olmert are far more dangerous than Mel Gibson or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It would be nice if I could put Halutz and Olmert into the big mouth no trousers category along with Mel Gibson and the Iranian President.

The record has to go to Tony Blair and George Bush though, GWB called for a "crusade", Tony waved his Bent as a Nine Bob Note Dossier, and lo and behold a few hundred thousand victims later there is full blown civil war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As a sideline to their multi-million civillian murder & refugee rap Tony Blair and GWB fly big bombs to their chums Olmert and Halutz so they can make more refugees, kill more civillians, blow up more bridges, airports, docks, hospitals, petrol stations, and Dan's personal favourite : Multistory appartment blocks.

In a civilised society that lot would be confined to solitary confinement in a padded cell until they died.

 

[Carrera]

A very true comment I reproduce:
"For centuries, Jews were viewed as sinister wandering rootless cosmopolitan figures of no national allegiance. So they became a conventional sovereign state and now they’re hated for that. The standard defense is that it’s not anti-Semitic to criticize Israeli policies, but, as Miss Campbell’s letter suggests, what’s being questioned is not Israel’s policies but the right of Israel to have policies, especially on national security. If, say, some fellows in Mexico had kidnapped California State Troopers and were lobbing rockets randomly into residential areas of San Diego and Los Angeles, even La-La-Land libs would be demanding the US respond. It’s only the Israelis the world wishes to deny the conventional rights of sovereignty. In other words, it’s the legitimacy of the state that’s at issue. In effect, Israel has become the geopolitical version of the European Jew who’s allowed to operate a store in the town but not to exercise full ownership rights: in the old days, Jews faced property restrictions; now they face sovereignty restrictions."

 

[darkboong]

A very true comment I reproduce:
"Miss Campbell’s letter suggests, what’s being questioned is not Israel’s policies but the right of Israel to have policies, especially on national security.

Absolute tosh. The point is that no government has the moral right to attack civillians indiscriminately. I do not see any reason see why Israel should have a uniquely moral right to murder civillians.

If, say, some fellows in Mexico had kidnapped California State Troopers and were lobbing rockets randomly into residential areas of San Diego and Los Angeles, even La-La-Land libs would be demanding the US respond.

That isn't how it has panned out though is it Crappy ? The actual order of events is that Hezbollah took two soldiers prisoner, Israel retaliated by killing a few dozen civillians, destroying an airport, fuel depots, bridges and a power station. A full day passed before the rockets started flying into Israel.

Also it's worth noting that the Israeli soliders were actually caught as they were *retreating* after a botched raid on Lebanon. The IDF have bragged about their commando raids on Lebanon on several occasions. Hell they have even shelled UNIFIL observation posts as a matter of routine, have you even bothered to look at the number of casualties that UNIFIL have reported and where the fire came from on each occasion ?

It’s only the Israelis the world wishes to deny the conventional rights of sovereignty.

Untrue. That said Isarel is denying the conventional rights of sovereignty to the Palestinians. We are seeing a classic example of paranoia and projection here.

In other words, it’s the legitimacy of the state that’s at issue.

I think that question is at the back of her mind more than mine.

In effect, Israel has become the geopolitical version of the European Jew

Hmm is that because Israel's ethnic background is predominately European Jew ?

who’s allowed to operate a store in the town but not to exercise full ownership rights:

in the old days, Jews faced property restrictions; now they face sovereignty restrictions."

I don't see any restrictions on Israel's sovereignty whatsoever. There are no sanctions, there are no bombers destroying the IDF, weapons are being supplied quite openly, aid is flowing freely. The Israel is still sitting on the Occupied Territories, Shebba Farms, Jordan Valley, and the Golan Heights. If anything Israeli is enjoying some rather large extras as far as Sovereignty goes, particularly in the light of the fact that they are operating in direct violation of UN Resolution 242.

Why don't you put on a Clown suit and tell the Palestinians that Israel is suffering from restrictions on it's Sovereignty ?

You don't let the facts get in the way of a good slogan do you Crappy ?

 

[Carrera]

"That said Isarel is denying the conventional rights of sovereignty to the Palestinians. We are seeing a classic example of paranoia and projection here."

Again, this is where you slip up and I wish other posters would follow what I say here and point this out to you.
I recently posted examples where 2 gays were subjected to a public flogging of over 50 lashes in Iran and then hung up to die. I provided further evidence of Christians churches being closed down in Iran and informed you that a Moslem who converts from Islam to Christianity faces the death penalty. I could provide far worse examples than that and the list would go on and on.
The fact remains that if you fail to be shocked and horrified by such a situation and support Hezbollah which is a recognised Iranian backed terrorist organization, then we clearly have different value systems altogether.
It seems to me you seem to research every possible irregularity you can find in Israel but it's funny I never read about death penalties being dealt out to Jews who converted to Christianity or floggings and hangings of gays and lesbians in Telaviv.
What about that?
I still maintain you're apparently as anti-Jewish and anti-American as the rest of the Londoners who happily rally around London burning American flags but are never seen protesting over Iraq's gassing of the Kurds or religious persecutions in Iran.
This attitude seen lately in London has been making some waves overseas and you guys are getting a reputation for appeasement and basically grovelling to Islamic extremists and any other religious nutter who shouts out for Jihad against democracy.

Absolute tosh. The point is that no government has the moral right to attack civillians indiscriminately. I do not see any reason see why Israel should have a uniquely moral right to murder civillians.



That isn't how it has panned out though is it Crappy ? The actual order of events is that Hezbollah took two soldiers prisoner, Israel retaliated by killing a few dozen civillians, destroying an airport, fuel depots, bridges and a power station. A full day passed before the rockets started flying into Israel.

Also it's worth noting that the Israeli soliders were actually caught as they were *retreating* after a botched raid on Lebanon. The IDF have bragged about their commando raids on Lebanon on several occasions. Hell they have even shelled UNIFIL observation posts as a matter of routine, have you even bothered to look at the number of casualties that UNIFIL have reported and where the fire came from on each occasion ?



Untrue. That said Isarel is denying the conventional rights of sovereignty to the Palestinians. We are seeing a classic example of paranoia and projection here.



I think that question is at the back of her mind more than mine.



Hmm is that because Israel's ethnic background is predominately European Jew ?



I don't see any restrictions on Israel's sovereignty whatsoever. There are no sanctions, there are no bombers destroying the IDF, weapons are being supplied quite openly, aid is flowing freely. The Israel is still sitting on the Occupied Territories, Shebba Farms, Jordan Valley, and the Golan Heights. If anything Israeli is enjoying some rather large extras as far as Sovereignty goes, particularly in the light of the fact that they are operating in direct violation of UN Resolution 242.

Why don't you put on a Clown suit and tell the Palestinians that Israel is suffering from restrictions on it's Sovereignty ?

You don't let the facts get in the way of a good slogan do you Crappy ?

 

[Carrera]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1526379,00.html#article_continue
"London is easily the most jihadist hub in western Europe," Roger Cressy, a former White House counterterrorism official, told the Los Angeles Times. "London has been an indoctrination and recruiting centre for many years," Michael Radu, a terrorism expert at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia, told the Philadelphia Tribune.

In the Wall Street Journal, the former head of the State Department's counter-terrorism centre, Larry Johnson, said Britain had been too squeamish about respecting Muslims' rights.

As a result, argues Peter Bergen, a fellow of the New America Foundation, British Muslims pose "one of the greatest terrorist threats to the United States".

In a comment piece, Mr Bergen questions whether America's safety is compromised by allowing Britons to come to the US without a visa, given "the reality that Islamic militant groups in Britain ... represent a growing threat to the United States that will continue for many years to come". So entrenched is the British capital as an outpost of the Muslim diaspora, that London is now commonly referred to as "Londonistan" - a word used several times in different papers."

Absolute tosh. The point is that no government has the moral right to attack civillians indiscriminately. I do not see any reason see why Israel should have a uniquely moral right to murder civillians.



That isn't how it has panned out though is it Crappy ? The actual order of events is that Hezbollah took two soldiers prisoner, Israel retaliated by killing a few dozen civillians, destroying an airport, fuel depots, bridges and a power station. A full day passed before the rockets started flying into Israel.

Also it's worth noting that the Israeli soliders were actually caught as they were *retreating* after a botched raid on Lebanon. The IDF have bragged about their commando raids on Lebanon on several occasions. Hell they have even shelled UNIFIL observation posts as a matter of routine, have you even bothered to look at the number of casualties that UNIFIL have reported and where the fire came from on each occasion ?



Untrue. That said Isarel is denying the conventional rights of sovereignty to the Palestinians. We are seeing a classic example of paranoia and projection here.



I think that question is at the back of her mind more than mine.



Hmm is that because Israel's ethnic background is predominately European Jew ?



I don't see any restrictions on Israel's sovereignty whatsoever. There are no sanctions, there are no bombers destroying the IDF, weapons are being supplied quite openly, aid is flowing freely. The Israel is still sitting on the Occupied Territories, Shebba Farms, Jordan Valley, and the Golan Heights. If anything Israeli is enjoying some rather large extras as far as Sovereignty goes, particularly in the light of the fact that they are operating in direct violation of UN Resolution 242.

Why don't you put on a Clown suit and tell the Palestinians that Israel is suffering from restrictions on it's Sovereignty ?

You don't let the facts get in the way of a good slogan do you Crappy ?

 

[darkboong]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1526379,00.html#article_continue
"London is easily the most jihadist hub in western Europe," Roger Cressy, a former White House counterterrorism official

Hmm, I take the time to respond to the rubbish you quote, and in return you quote more rubbish. "most jihadist hub" ? What the hell does that mean ? Are Campagnolo Veloce hubs "Jihadist" ?

In the Wall Street Journal, the former head of the State Department's counter-terrorism centre, Larry Johnson, said Britain had been too squeamish about respecting Muslims' rights.

So he thinks we should respect the rights of Muslims less than everyone else ? I don't see why should listen to a goose-stepping wannabe Nazi.

As a result, argues Peter Bergen, a fellow of the New America Foundation, British Muslims pose "one of the greatest terrorist threats to the United States".

America is one of the greatest terrorist threats to British Muslims. They lock them up without charge and torture them for years at a time. I am not at all surprised that they are anticipating some bad feeling from British Muslims.

The New America Foundation advocates the destruction of every Muslim country on the planet. Genocide is highly irrational, I wouldn't expect anyone representing that organisation to present a rational assessment of threat.

London is now commonly referred to as "Londonistan" - a word used several times in different papers."

The real reason for them calling it "Londistan" is that they hate our freedom.

 

[darkboong]

I provided further evidence of Christians churches being closed down in Iran and informed you that a Moslem who converts from Islam to Christianity faces the death penalty.

That does not make killing and displacing millions of Lebanese and Palestinians OK though does it ?

The fact remains that if you fail to be shocked and horrified by such a situation and support Hezbollah which is a recognised Iranian backed terrorist organization, then we clearly have different value systems altogether.

I am not shocked by much when it comes to cruelty inflicted by people in uniforms. History is littered with examples.

It seems to me you seem to research every possible irregularity you can find in Israel but it's funny I never read about death penalties being dealt out to Jews who converted to Christianity or floggings and hangings of gays and lesbians in Telaviv.

That is largely because you haven't bothered to research into it. That has certainly occurred in Israel.

What about that?

Good point, what about that ?

I still maintain you're apparently as anti-Jewish and anti-American as the rest of the Londoners who happily rally around London burning American flags but are never seen protesting over Iraq's gassing of the Kurds or religious persecutions in Iran.

I have protested against all of those things Crappy. I have even told you that in this very thread, but you persist in lying yet again.

This attitude seen lately in London has been making some waves overseas and you guys are getting a reputation for appeasement

****** invaded Poland, Chamberlin stood by, you (and Israel's supporters) accuse Chamberlin of Appeasement. Israel invades the Occupied Territories and Lebanon and you accuse the people who speak out against it of being appeasers.

You are a jackbooted liar and racist who actively supports the mass murder and displacement of Lebanese and Palestinians.

 

[darkboong]

I still maintain you're apparently as anti-Jewish and anti-American as the rest of the Londoners who happily rally around London burning American flags but are never seen protesting over Iraq's gassing of the Kurds or religious persecutions in Iran.

The question here is : Will you be rallying around London burning American flags and protesting against Israel's bombing of 23 Kurds ?

"At least 23 farm workers have died after Israeli aircraft fired missiles at vehicles in a farm near the Lebanon-Syria border, Lebanese officials said on Friday.

An additional 20 people were wounded in the attack and taken to hospital, while there are reports that some victims remain buried in rubble." - Reuters.

The following is a bit of a old news. I mention it because you brought up the Kurds and alleged that I didn't protest (which in fact I did). The descriptions of the corpses bear an uncanny similarity to the descriptions of some of the Halabja victims (not all though).

"20 July 2006

BRUSSELS — The Israeli military is using chemical weapons during its bombing of Lebanon, a Belgian-Lebanese professor claimed during a press conference in Brussels on Thursday.

The press conference was organised by the secretary of the Tripoli archbishop, Monsignor Jean Abboud. The Belgian professor of Lebanese origin, Bachir Cham, is the head of a hospital in Lebanon.

"The bodies don't look like they normally do. After an explosion there were no traces of blood loss or subcutaneous haemorrhages [bruises]," Cham said via mobile phone direct from Beirut.

"The hair and sometimes the beard and the moustache remained intact. I found no traces of the pressure wave by the
explosion. The colour of the skin was black like a shoe, but the skin was not carbonised or burnt.""

Talking of Halabja, while Turkey & Iraq were hell bent on eliminating the Kurds (using US/UK supplied weapons in both cases), Iran and Syria was busy given them safe-haven. Why have you failed to mention that fact, hmmm ?

 

[Carrera]

So far as I'm aware, the support for Islamic extremism in London is known within Europe, Russia and the U.S.
I think Melanie Phillips is spot on with her analysis. I do believe the U.K. is risking a diplomatic break with the U.S. but there will be a price to pay if that happens. I mean, it would leave the U.K. quite isolated and I see no signs of Australia withdrawing from the Transatlantic Alliance.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying Americans are saints but I do think the support for Islamic fundamentalism in London is being noted, even in Europe.
The current situation sees Blair with no alternative but to follow Bush's line even if he's opposed by Londoners and his own Party. But the reality is if Blair were to refuse to back the U.S., the Americans would be none too happy. The U.K. depends on the U.S. economically and for defence.
Melanie Philipps is right, though. The special relationship is now with Israel. In Thatcher's time the special relationship was with the U.K.

Hmm, I take the time to respond to the rubbish you quote, and in return you quote more rubbish. "most jihadist hub" ? What the hell does that mean ? Are Campagnolo Veloce hubs "Jihadist" ?



So he thinks we should respect the rights of Muslims less than everyone else ? I don't see why should listen to a goose-stepping wannabe Nazi.



America is one of the greatest terrorist threats to British Muslims. They lock them up without charge and torture them for years at a time. I am not at all surprised that they are anticipating some bad feeling from British Muslims.

The New America Foundation advocates the destruction of every Muslim country on the planet. Genocide is highly irrational, I wouldn't expect anyone representing that organisation to present a rational assessment of threat.



The real reason for them calling it "Londistan" is that they hate our freedom.

 

[Carrera]

Do you know what the verb "to medize" means? It was a term that described Greeks who surrendered to Persia when Greece was threatened with invasion of the Persian army. That is, there were Greeks who believed the easy way out for Greece would be just to submit to the Persian Empire and send a sacrifice of earth, fire and water.
Today, it's the same. There are Americans and Europeans who believe in secular liberty and democracy and western values. They're prepared to fight to preserve those values. There are other groups of people, however, who would rather live under Islamic Fundamentalism. Such people hate Israel, hate the U.S.A. and hate democracy.
As much as Wurm hates George Bush, I find it hard to believe he'd rather live in an Islamic Theocracy where gays and lesbians are lashed and hung by a noose for their sexual orientation and where people are beheaded for choosing another religion.

That does not make killing and displacing millions of Lebanese and Palestinians OK though does it ?



I am not shocked by much when it comes to cruelty inflicted by people in uniforms. History is littered with examples.



That is largely because you haven't bothered to research into it. That has certainly occurred in Israel.



Good point, what about that ?



I have protested against all of those things Crappy. I have even told you that in this very thread, but you persist in lying yet again.



****** invaded Poland, Chamberlin stood by, you (and Israel's supporters) accuse Chamberlin of Appeasement. Israel invades the Occupied Territories and Lebanon and you accuse the people who speak out against it of being appeasers.

You are a jackbooted liar and racist who actively supports the mass murder and displacement of Lebanese and Palestinians.

 

[Carrera]

Make up your own minds. Darkboong reckons Israel is repressive, disrespectful of human rights and intolerant and America is a dictatorship Here's some information about Iran to maybe compare with life in Israel. If Boogers could find some details like this to accuse Israel of he'd be in his element:
"Five Iranians, including two sisters, Tahereh and Sima Yaghubi, were reported to have been flogged in public on 16 May 2001 in the northern city of Tonekabon for having sexual relations outside marriage. The sisters and two of the men received 91 lashes each; the remaining man received 74 lashes.
A woman, named only as Robabeh, was sentenced in May 2001 to receive 50 lashes, to be followed by stoning to death. There have been no reports of the punishment having yet been carried out.
Twenty-five men received between 70 and 80 lashes in public floggings carried out in Tehran on 20 July 2001; the men were accused of drinking and selling alcohol.
On 24 July 2001, eight Iranian men accused of drinking alcohol and causing public disturbances were publicly flogged in Vanak Square in northern Tehran. The men, all aged between 20 and 25, each received between 70 and 80 lashes. A further 14 men, aged 20-25, were flogged in Tehran, receiving between 70-80 lashes.
On 25 July 2001, 22 men were flogged in public in Tehran for drinking alcohol and harassing women.
On 29 July 2001, five men were whipped in a public square in the town of Boroujerd in the west of Iran. The men all received more than 70 lashes for public disorder offences.
On 1 August 2001 a Revolutionary Court in Torbat-e Heydariyeh, in northeastern Iran, sentenced two political supporters of the president, Mohammad Khatami, to periods of imprisonment plus 40 lashes following arrests made in connection with celebrations of the president's re-election.
Five Iranian men were flogged in public for drunkenness on 7 August 2001. The men, aged between 27 and 30, reportedly received 70 lashes each at a Tehran square close to the Interior Ministry building."

 

[davidmc]

along those lines...

 

[stevebaby]

Make up your own minds. Darkboong reckons Israel is repressive, disrespectful of human rights and intolerant and America is a dictatorship Here's some information about Iran to maybe compare with life in Israel. If Boogers could find some details like this to accuse Israel of he'd be in his element:
"Five Iranians, including two sisters, Tahereh and Sima Yaghubi, were reported to have been flogged in public on 16 May 2001 in the northern city of Tonekabon for having sexual relations outside marriage. The sisters and two of the men received 91 lashes each; the remaining man received 74 lashes.
A woman, named only as Robabeh, was sentenced in May 2001 to receive 50 lashes, to be followed by stoning to death. There have been no reports of the punishment having yet been carried out.
Twenty-five men received between 70 and 80 lashes in public floggings carried out in Tehran on 20 July 2001; the men were accused of drinking and selling alcohol.
On 24 July 2001, eight Iranian men accused of drinking alcohol and causing public disturbances were publicly flogged in Vanak Square in northern Tehran. The men, all aged between 20 and 25, each received between 70 and 80 lashes. A further 14 men, aged 20-25, were flogged in Tehran, receiving between 70-80 lashes.
On 25 July 2001, 22 men were flogged in public in Tehran for drinking alcohol and harassing women.
On 29 July 2001, five men were whipped in a public square in the town of Boroujerd in the west of Iran. The men all received more than 70 lashes for public disorder offences.
On 1 August 2001 a Revolutionary Court in Torbat-e Heydariyeh, in northeastern Iran, sentenced two political supporters of the president, Mohammad Khatami, to periods of imprisonment plus 40 lashes following arrests made in connection with celebrations of the president's re-election.
Five Iranian men were flogged in public for drunkenness on 7 August 2001. The men, aged between 27 and 30, reportedly received 70 lashes each at a Tehran square close to the Interior Ministry building."

This is exactly what happens in saudi arabia...the country which receives the greater portion of us aid (and which is certainly the country which least needs it.).Nobody seems too bothered about this.It would also be an accurate description of pakistan or kuwait or oman etc.
The main difference between saudi arabia and iran is that at least iranians get to vote.
Still,looking on the bright side...the saudi oil minister said recently that an attack on iran would cause the price of oil to triple...so the citizens of every western country will be spending a lot more time on their bikes!

 

[stevebaby]

And with a little luck it never will be.

World Exclusive!
First Cruise baby pic!
http://images.www3.cyclingforums.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
ugly-baby-l.jpg