nagging lower back pain - need advice

[badger_biker]

This year I am having a new experience with lower back pain on both sides just below the belt (kidney area) and not on the spine. Other than one ride it hasn't been noticibly more severe while riding then when not. When I'm seated in a desk chair I can bring it on by lifting both legs horizontal with the floor.
I ride on hoods, drops and top but have a more generally upright position on the bikes with about a +15 degree stems and bars just slightly above the seat height. I'm thinking my back isn't straight enough with the outward lower bend causing me the problem.
I'm looking for some help with adjustment steps to try. I'm thinking either moving the seat forward or raising the bars may help flatten the back but could use some help here. The only bike change was a seatpost swap since last year. I tried to get bar to nose, and height/angle adjustments the same but it may be off.
Otherwise any suggestions on stretches that may relieve the pain would be appreciated. I've never had this problem before and it is becoming frustrating. Thanks!

 

[SoDakker]

Regarding the stretching,...

You are asking a very difficult question. The lower back is a very complicated region with a great number of tissue connections/joints that could potentially cause problems. Facet joint dysfunction, Sacroiliac joint dysfunction and referred pain from degenerative discs can all manifest themselves with the same symptoms you are describing, yet each are treated quite differently with different stretching and etc.

If you want to find the source of your nagging pain, then you really require an examination. I would recommend you see your physician, and if he/she cannot identify your issue, then request a referral to physical therapy, a PM&R doc or a pain specialist.

 

[SlickyRicky]

Well dont expect the primary care doctor to have a clue about your problem. You need to see someone who is well versed on the issue. I have a few articles i have written on pezcyclingnews.com on the issure. Good luck

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/default.asp?pg=fullstory&id=3003

thats the last one on the issue just put back pain in the search and you should find the other two links.

 

[badger_biker]

My issue isn't a lot of pain, just some general discomfort off the bike and when I'm riding a certain bike so I'm not ready to seek medical help yet. I only brought it up because I'm trying to adjust my bike for more comfort. I have not changed my touring bike at all and that one is comfortable to ride with no problems. I've found some other threads and info and will experiment with saddle angle, height and for/aft positioning. Thanks for your posts.

 

[SoDakker]

Well dont expect the primary care doctor to have a clue about your problem. You need to see someone who is well versed on the issue.QUOTE]

Your first sentence is irresponsible. I agree with your second sentence.

 

[Baalzamon]

You could have a lumbar weak muscle. I have got a weak lumbar weak muscle which is getting stronger slow.
Basically when I am cycling, my lower back aches. When I am not cycling it is not aches unless I am using that lower back mucles.

What you could do is try some lower back stretches that will get the lumbar muscles exercing. I do single leg knee hugs to chest for 30 each leg, then do double knee hug 3x.
But bear in mind it might it would be a good idea to do some ab work as well to keep balance between back muscles and ab muscles.

 

[nomotornozen]

Well dont expect the primary care doctor to have a clue about your problem. You need to see someone who is well versed on the issue.QUOTE]

Your first sentence is irresponsible. I agree with your second sentence.

Unfortunately it’s true here in the US. Follow the money and you’ll see why primary care here often means riskier costlier approaches that suppress the symptoms instead of treating the cause of the problem. Why else did the US come in 34th (or was it 38th?) on the WHO quality of life index? SlickyRicky knows what he's talking about.

 

[Felt_Rider]

I use a chiro weekly for my low back issues and I started using an inversion table for decompression since last Friday and that has really helped with some of my issues not only on the bike, but in daily living as well. I also have to do a lot of stretching for my glutes and hamstrings which alleviates the low back discomfort.

 

[SoDakker]

Unfortunately it’s true here in the US.

What is the "it" you are specifically referring to?

Follow the money and you’ll see why primary care here often means riskier costlier approaches that suppress the symptoms instead of treating the cause of the problem.

Are you referring to the usual approach that a primary care physician takes which would include talking to the patient to obtain a history followed by a basic physical exam to include a basic lower back pain exam? (the following to be read with mock surprise) Why this could actually diagnose the problem!!! (this sentence to be read with heavy sarcasm) Taking a patient's history and performing a physical exam is indeed very invasive, very risky and very costly.

In order to treat the problem, the problem must be identified. The history and physical are the chief means to connect symptomatology and physical signs to a diagnosis of the problem. A problem that, once identified, can be referred to an appropriate specialist as both I and SlickyRicky have suggested.

The original poster has suggested that his back pain has not yet progressed to the point he needs to seek medical attention, so until that time comes, perhaps you could offer some advice instead of critiquing primary care in the US--something you seem to be ill-informed about and ill-equipped to do.

Why else did the US come in 34th (or was it 38th?) on the WHO quality of life index?

What in the h*!! does this have to do with low back pain associated with cycling? The original poster was asking about his back pain.

SlickyRicky knows what he's talking about.

Chiropracty, as it is currently practiced in the US, still believes that it can cure diseases that have very clear and well understood pathology, like asthma (airway hyperreactivity due to a local inflammatory process) by manipulating the spine and correcting "vertebral subluxations"--horribly bogus and unfounded at its very base. Obviously, SlickyRicky is better than some of the unfortunate practices of his field, and that was precisely why I was disappointed with his writing of what I believed to be an irresponsible statement.

Let us bring this thread back to its original purpose of helping somebody with nagging lower back pain.

 

[nomotornozen]

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What is the "it" you are specifically referring to?

Well dont expect the primary care doctor to have a clue about your problem.

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Are you referring to the usual approach that a primary care physician takes which would include talking to the patient to obtain a history followed by a basic physical exam to include a basic lower back pain exam? (the following to be read with mock surprise) Why this could actually diagnose the problem!!! (this sentence to be read with heavy sarcasm) Taking a patient's history and performing a physical exam is indeed very invasive, very risky and very costly.

In order to treat the problem, the problem must be identified. The history and physical are the chief means to connect symptomatology and physical signs to a diagnosis of the problem. A problem that, once identified, can be referred to an appropriate specialist as both I and SlickyRicky have suggested.



You are correct in stating that the problem must be diagnosed before treatment. But proper diagnosis and examination require proper training, and the allopathic training isn’t as good as the Chiropractic training for musculoskeletal problems. Ever see this: http://www.occhiro.org/Definitions/Education.htm Remember the JAMA article on this back in 1999? And how little things have changed since then?





The original poster has suggested that his back pain has not yet progressed to the point he needs to seek medical attention, so until that time comes, perhaps you could offer some advice instead of critiquing primary care in the US--something you seem to be ill-informed about and ill-equipped to do.


Well I did spend more time in the classroom taking almost exactly the same classes I would have taken to become a MD.
And I've treated enough people who wished they would have started with me instead of a MD to feel qualified to comment on the sad state of US medical care. And your diagnosis of the original posters condition of not needing attention shows the limits of your training in musculoskeletal issues. Do you tell your hypertensive and diabetic patients to wait until they’re sure they’ve got a problem to seek care? Please refer to your earlier statements about the benefit of a diagnosis after the physical examination – none of us will know for sure until he’s been examined by someone qualified.





What in the h*!! does this have to do with low back pain associated with cycling? The original poster was asking about his back pain.


It relates to the effectiveness of allopathic care, which is based on the effectiveness of both the training of the practitioners and the treatments they prescribe. http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm

is a much more concise reference, which relates to the original statement that a primary care MD wouldn’t be the most qualified/effective person for this condition. But perhaps you can explain why a field that is so deadly in trying to treat conditions that their training is supposed to be so superior in would be better at treating conditions where their training isn’t superior?

And if you get a terrible headache from all of this thinking where a regular aspirin won't do, you can always take something that's been scientifically proven to be both safe and effective while being more potent. That is unless you've given away all of your Vioxx samples. http://www.vioxx.com/rofecoxib/vioxx/consumer/index.jsp

 

[SoDakker]

I can "cook" my classroom/lab/research/residency numbers to give me an astronomical number of "classroom" hours--dwarfing the numbers produced by your chiro site.

Again, I am suggesting we allow this thread to fulfill its purpose; helping someone with back pain.

I am sending you an e-mail.

 

[SlickyRicky]

I can "cook" my classroom/lab/research/residency numbers to give me an astronomical number of "classroom" hours--dwarfing the numbers produced by your chiro site.

Again, I am suggesting we allow this thread to fulfill its purpose; helping someone with back pain.

I am sending you an e-mail.

I need to clarify whats going on here. I did not mean to discredit anyone in my post. I work with all types of physicians from primary care physicans to neurosurgeons. I have respect for each specialty. However it is no secrest even amoung the primary care physicans themselfs that they would not be able to resolve a muscluesketla problem as a result of cycling. I posted 3 well recevied articles on back with reference. It does seem that you have a biased opionion on chiropractic from the previous posts and that may have been the issue. My specialty has allowed me to help numerous patients for over 10 years and there is no reason to defendent. It is not necessary to discredt anyone specialty. My comments are just from my clinical experince

 

[Felt_Rider]

Well dont expect the primary care doctor to have a clue about your problem. You need to see someone who is well versed on the issue. I have a few articles i have written on pezcyclingnews.com on the issure. Good luck

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/default.asp?pg=fullstory&id=3003

thats the last one on the issue just put back pain in the search and you should find the other two links.

Looking at this article that is exactly how I have been treating my lower back condition by using my 25 years of training experience combined with the advice of my chiropractor (who is a competitive powerlifter) on how to improve my condition to relieve the discomfort and correct the problem (scoliosis). Whether anyone else takes the advice or not I have been using stretching, ice, massage, decompression (exclusive to my condition) and a chiropractor (exclusive to my condition) to treat and correct the problem area and it seems to be working.

At least it is good to read this article for confirmation that I feel like I am doing the right thing for treatment.

 

[P1 Madone SL]

I have a herniated disk at 3-4 lumbar. I have first hand knowldege of lower back pain.

Stretching: YES! The thing is that you need a professional to recommend the right stretches. My back needs a lot of leg stretches. That may not be the case for other back pain sufferers.

I do notice that different muscles suffer at different stages of my training. At the start of each season it is the quads, big surprise. But next comes the lower back muscles you describe. Your pain sounds familiar to me. Sounds familiar proves nothing, understand?

Ok, in my case the lower back muscles were not strong enough to support the power my legs were developing. This went on through 2 weeks of training. I have a coach that manages my training. It is intense to say the least. Anyway, the back pain has subsided and now it is my calves that seem to be the weak link. Two weeks from now I expect it to be something else.

Having recovered from a blown disk, all I can say is be patient but do not give up. Back off on the time you ride to keep up the intensity. You need strength to support you lower back. A course of physical therapy would be your best bet. To get there, you probably have to see a doctor.

Give it two weeks. If your back still hurts see that doctor. Whatever you do, keep riding. All it takes is a few weeks of couch potato to turn your back muscles into worthless jello. That is the outcome you need to avoid.

Take care of your body, gets lots of sleep, take the multivitamin and stay so hydrated your **** is clear. It will do more than keep your back strong. It will make you a better cyclist.

If you can get a coach, do it! It is very hard to be objective about your own training. My coach has brought results out of me that are shocking!

Good luck and keep riding