New Road frame,its called NEO Exile!!

[Hanzypanzy]

Just wanted to post a few questions on this new frame. Pics on the following links:
http://s367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/Colbert_Carbon_Cycles/FRAMESETS/?action=view&current=NEORoadframe001.jpg

http://s367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/Colbert_Carbon_Cycles/FRAMESETS/?action=view&current=NEORoadframe003.jpg

http://s367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/Colbert_Carbon_Cycles/FRAMESETS/?action=view&current=NEORoadframe002.jpg

The frame comes as a frameset, full carbon frame/fork/seatpost (clamp and headset included) and is very light indeed. This particular frameset is 1400g complete,and thats a size 57cm seattube.
The rear of the frame is based on a bike made by GURU, a Canadian company, and the front is based on a Wilier Le Roi.

Wouls appreciate some views on it,style and looks etc. Of course the proof is in the riding. This frame didnt make it to Interbike or Eurobike,but will be appearing soon.

Let me know your thoughts
Thanks
Stephen

 

[kdelong]

Looks really good, just like a lot of others out there. I personally like the styling but I don't really see anything that sets it apart from any other CF frame. Like you said though, the proof is in the ride.

 

[Hanzypanzy]

Looks really good, just like a lot of others out there. I personally like the styling but I don't really see anything that sets it apart from any other CF frame. Like you said though, the proof is in the ride.

Very very true......this frame will be on test in the next two weeks so will post reviews.

The main thing that sets it apart from most similar frames is the price tag.
As I mentioned,it comes as a frameset, so the frame/fork/seatpost/headset/clamp is a cool £850

Keep an eye out for reviews and for size charts etc.

Thanks
Stephen

 

[Phill P]

Man if this were weight weenies the spamo meter would be going nuts.....

Who makes the frame?

 

[Hanzypanzy]

Man if this were weight weenies the spamo meter would be going nuts.....

Who makes the frame?

LOL, yeah the weight weenies will love this frame! As was mentioned before,this frame does indeed have a lot of,what looks like main stream qualities and styling. The market has a lot of these..............or does it though???? The aim was to make as light a frame as possible,but make it stiffer than say a Wilier Le Roi (which is stiff for those who have not ridden one). Job done Id say.

The Frame is made by the same company that produce some Wilier/Specialized/Scott etc.

 

[Phill P]

Which company is that? Carbotech/Giant?

What I meant about WWs is somebody new posting thier own product and promoting it without owning up to it. On weight weenies you aren't allowed to "advertise".

What are the features that make this bike so good? Tapered steer? BB30? Integrated BB? 1400grams frame and fork is mid range for carbon.

 

[Hanzypanzy]

Which company is that? Carbotech/Giant?

What I meant about WWs is somebody new posting thier own product and promoting it without owning up to it. On weight weenies you aren't allowed to "advertise".

What are the features that make this bike so good? Tapered steer? BB30? Integrated BB? 1400grams frame and fork is mid range for carbon.

Ok, lets look at it another way. The frame currently uses a similar fork to the Wilier Le Roi, but if we weigh the frame on its own,as per most of the frames on weight weenies, it stacks up quite well Id say.
So, 920grams for a 57cm frame is a little better than mid range by having a look on weight weenies. Possibly a different fork on there will make this an even better prospect.

The fork uses a 1-1/4 bottom race and 1-1/8th top race, making the front end stiffer and more responsive,ala Wilier.

The seat post area has actually had an alloy insert nicely slipped inside and fused into the carbon, so no more worries about the old carbon on carbon seatpost slippage(I know if seatpost is fitted correctly,ie cleaned,there should be no probs,but amazing how often we still see and hear it happen!)

The chain stays have been heavily beafed up if viewed from below and attachment to the BB area is also heafty,to transfer your hard earned work. Seat stays are classic design,with the triangular area cut out above the brake caliper to add a little aero.

The finish on the frame is currently in matt black(although this is yet to be totally decided on.........any ideas?)

Hope this gives a little more insight into the frame,and if we put it into context, price included............at this kind of money,for this quality of frame, is it just another one on the market...............................

 

[Felt_Rider]

Ok, lets look at it another way. The frame currently uses a similar fork to the Wilier Le Roi, but if we weigh the frame on its own,as per most of the frames on weight weenies, it stacks up quite well Id say.
So, 920grams for a 57cm frame is a little better than mid range by having a look on weight weenies. Possibly a different fork on there will make this an even better prospect.

The fork uses a 1-1/4 bottom race and 1-1/8th top race, making the front end stiffer and more responsive,ala Wilier.

The seat post area has actually had an alloy insert nicely slipped inside and fused into the carbon, so no more worries about the old carbon on carbon seatpost slippage(I know if seatpost is fitted correctly,ie cleaned,there should be no probs,but amazing how often we still see and hear it happen!)

The chain stays have been heavily beafed up if viewed from below and attachment to the BB area is also heafty,to transfer your hard earned work. Seat stays are classic design,with the triangular area cut out above the brake caliper to add a little aero.

The finish on the frame is currently in matt black(although this is yet to be totally decided on.........any ideas?)

Hope this gives a little more insight into the frame,and if we put it into context, price included............at this kind of money,for this quality of frame, is it just another one on the market...............................

I kind of like the matte black. I also like the clear coat gloss of Pedalforce.
Are the decals optional like they are for the PedalForce frames?

 

[Hanzypanzy]

I kind of like the matte black. I also like the clear coat gloss of Pedalforce.
Are the decals optional like they are for the PedalForce frames?

Hi there,

Yeah, decals are being experimented with at the moment. The finish is also being discussed and decided on. Check out the link below:

http://s367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/Colbert_Carbon_Cycles/COMPLETE%20%20BIKES/FOR%20SALE/?action=view&current=WilierSRAMbuild006.jpg

This is a Wilier Le Roi/SRAM Red/3T build,the frame is without a factory paint job. The finish is bare carbon with clear lacquer coating. This maybe available in the new NEO Exile frame, just gathering some feedback before a decision will be made.

What you think?

 

[Felt_Rider]

What you think?

Suits me okay because I am a "function before form" kind of person.

If I were looking for a new frame I would be more interested in the technical aspects first and then consider the looks second, but I bet 50%+ cyclists are probably the opposite.

 

[Hanzypanzy]

Suits me okay because I am a "function before form" kind of person.

If I were looking for a new frame I would be more interested in the technical aspects first and then consider the looks second, but I bet 50%+ cyclists are probably the opposite.

Well said, I totally agree. Lots of frames are made for the `pleasing aspect` or for some marketing gig. These frame shave been made with both in mind. Its probably a more `classic` design so will appeal to the kind of taste, but strength/stiffness and quality of ride have not fallen to the wayside. They havnt bothered with the `integrated seatpost` layout, or with some weirdly shaped tubing, just added a few twists to the tried and tested design. All this has kept one of the most important qualities to the fore-front...........its kept the weight down yet managed to upgrade the stiffness in crucial areas!

 

[alienator]

Spam.

I don't see anything distinctive about this frame. It appears to be just another cookie cutter frame. Certainly, if it is actually an 'original' design, it would be designed on its own design specs, not 'based' on someone else's design.

Weight? Doesn't really matter in terms of performance. It's just a marketing tool. Stiffness? Please tell us exactly what metrics define appropriate stiffness, eh? Do have a set of stiffness magnitudes that are appropriate for a well performing bike? Are you aware there's not been a single study that has showed that increased stiffness in a bike frame increases performance? I won't go into how just throwing out the word stiffness, as if all stiffness measures are the same, is patently wrong. It's like saying that motorcycles and bicycles are the same because they each have two wheels. So, throwing out the term 'stiffness' as you have is just another marketing tool. If you actually understand the whole stiffness game, please tell us what exactly you've done to change stiffness in specific areas, why you did it, and what your tests on prototype frames revealed.

I see absolutely zero 'twists.' They--whoever 'they' is--have done nothing that someone else hasn't already done. As you said, the 'designers' already copied at least two other companies ideas.

Beefed up BB to transfer hard earned work? So, what were the hysteretic energy losses before the 'beefing up?'

Experimenting with decals? Do you have a team of scientists working on this? Or is the experimenting just you spamming forums?

Free advertising must totally rock for you, eh?

 

[Hanzypanzy]

Spam.

I don't see anything distinctive about this frame. It appears to be just another cookie cutter frame. Certainly, if it is actually an 'original' design, it would be designed on its own design specs, not 'based' on someone else's design.

Weight? Doesn't really matter in terms of performance. It's just a marketing tool. Stiffness? Please tell us exactly what metrics define appropriate stiffness, eh? Do have a set of stiffness magnitudes that are appropriate for a well performing bike? Are you aware there's not been a single study that has showed that increased stiffness in a bike frame increases performance? I won't go into how just throwing out the word stiffness, as if all stiffness measures are the same, is patently wrong. It's like saying that motorcycles and bicycles are the same because they each have two wheels. So, throwing out the term 'stiffness' as you have is just another marketing tool. If you actually understand the whole stiffness game, please tell us what exactly you've done to change stiffness in specific areas, why you did it, and what your tests on prototype frames revealed.

I see absolutely zero 'twists.' They--whoever 'they' is--have done nothing that someone else hasn't already done. As you said, the 'designers' already copied at least two other companies ideas.

Beefed up BB to transfer hard earned work? So, what were the hysteretic energy losses before the 'beefing up?'

Experimenting with decals? Do you have a team of scientists working on this? Or is the experimenting just you spamming forums?

Free advertising must totally rock for you, eh?

Oh, an angry reader eh. LOL

Lets see how and why your so angry and against new things.

Weight..............it doesnt really matter?? Oh, I think that you will find it has a little to do with the whole package. Im by no means a scientist,but I did listen a little at school, and when they made us lift and throw that big medicine ball at school (was a few years ago) up and over an object,it was difficult............but the little ball was easier for some reason.

Stiffness............again, no science degree in engineering for me, but ever ridden a full suspension mountain bike on the road? Forget the wind effect from the heavy(its a weight issue again) bike or thick tyres, but imagine the loss of power from that rear end springing up and down. Now, not really seen any road frame chain stays do this,or that it is visible to the eye, but it does happen Im affraid. So if the manufacturer can get rid of this as much as possible,Im sorry to say,the effort YOU put in WILL give you a better result. Please dont have a go at me on this front, frame manufacturers have been working on this aspect for quite a while. Maybe you can come and `explain the whole stiffness game` to them......who `ever they is`? They is open to suggestions remember. Im sure Ive read at least a few companies who see stiffness as a must......................

This forum is for discussing,not spamming my friend, no need for the childish attacks, simply put your voice forward.

As for the team of scientists, they work tirelessly into the night trying to come up with different decal designs, I dont think they get paid enough myself.

 

[alienator]

Oh, an angry reader eh. LOL

Lets see how and why your so angry and against new things.

Weight..............it doesnt really matter?? Oh, I think that you will find it has a little to do with the whole package. Im by no means a scientist,but I did listen a little at school, and when they made us lift and throw that big medicine ball at school (was a few years ago) up and over an object,it was difficult............but the little ball was easier for some reason.

Stiffness............again, no science degree in engineering for me, but ever ridden a full suspension mountain bike on the road? Forget the wind effect from the heavy(its a weight issue again) bike or thick tyres, but imagine the loss of power from that rear end springing up and down. Now, not really seen any road frame chain stays do this,or that it is visible to the eye, but it does happen Im affraid. So if the manufacturer can get rid of this as much as possible,Im sorry to say,the effort YOU put in WILL give you a better result. Please dont have a go at me on this front, frame manufacturers have been working on this aspect for quite a while. Maybe you can come and `explain the whole stiffness game` to them......who `ever they is`? They is open to suggestions remember. Im sure Ive read at least a few companies who see stiffness as a must......................

This forum is for discussing,not spamming my friend, no need for the childish attacks, simply put your voice forward.

As for the team of scientists, they work tirelessly into the night trying to come up with different decal designs, I dont think they get paid enough myself.

Just as I thought: you don't understand anything about bike design. You're just a simple spammer. You've done nothing but regurgitate what some other marketing guy--specifically, the marketing guy for the factory that makes these frames--regurgitated to you.

I'm not angry. I'm just calling BS ******** when I see it, and your drivel is ********. Alas, your folksy little dodge around the questions doesn't equate to anything factual at all. Your cutesy responses to technical points just show that you don't know much about bikes at all and instead rely on mythology to sell. Your just some 'merchant' trying to pawn off product without having to go through all the hoops that reputable sellers have to go through, like paying for advertising. I'll bet your customer service will rise to the level of your bike knowledge, which is to say it likely won't rise at all.

Why don't go and spend some actual money on advertising.

I'll wager that you won't be in business longer than a year--maybe two years--at best.

 

[Hanzypanzy]

Just as I thought: you don't understand anything about bike design. You're just a simple spammer. You've done nothing but regurgitate what some other marketing guy--specifically, the marketing guy for the factory that makes these frames--regurgitated to you.

I'm not angry. I'm just calling BS ******** when I see it, and your drivel is ********. Alas, your folksy little dodge around the questions doesn't equate to anything factual at all. Your cutesy responses to technical points just show that you don't know much about bikes at all and instead rely on mythology to sell. Your just some 'merchant' trying to pawn off product without having to go through all the hoops that reputable sellers have to go through, like paying for advertising. I'll bet your customer service will rise to the level of your bike knowledge, which is to say it likely won't rise at all.

Why don't go and spend some actual money on advertising.


I'll wager that you won't be in business longer than a year--maybe two years--at best.

Sorry to offend you so much, this forum, and infact many of the forums on the net are perfect places to post such articles..............after all, this is where guys like you, the riders, go to praise or put down equipment that is already on the market. Your missing the point my friend. Your views have been noted and are greatly appreciated, as are all who take the time to post on here.
I made no attempt to `dodge` or use `cutesy` responses at all, I just dont see the point in having to prove gravity and engineering all over again, that was taking into hand many many decades ago.

The advertising campaign will take place once the product is fully ready for public sale. In the mean time, I hope its ok to collect as many points of view and get some real feedback from riders on here. Im not sure why you feel its such a bad thing for a company to ask people questions about its forth coming products...................Id say its pretty good market research myself.

 

[alienator]

Sorry to offend you so much, this forum, and infact many of the forums on the net are perfect places to post such articles..............after all, this is where guys like you, the riders, go to praise or put down equipment that is already on the market. Your missing the point my friend. Your views have been noted and are greatly appreciated, as are all who take the time to post on here.
I made no attempt to `dodge` or use `cutesy` responses at all, I just dont see the point in having to prove gravity and engineering all over again, that was taking into hand many many decades ago.

The advertising campaign will take place once the product is fully ready for public sale. In the mean time, I hope its ok to collect as many points of view and get some real feedback from riders on here. Im not sure why you feel its such a bad thing for a company to ask people questions about its forth coming products...................Id say its pretty good market research myself.

Well, you're wrong about your "gravity" ideas and what "engineering" says about frame stiffness. Perhaps you should just copy some adspeak from Guru and Wilier to sell your frames, eh?

 

[Hanzypanzy]

Well, you're wrong about your "gravity" ideas and what "engineering" says about frame stiffness. Perhaps you should just copy some adspeak from Guru and Wilier to sell your frames, eh?

Now Now, lets not get a wound up about this. I think its fair to say that you wont be riding one of the frames from NEO by personal choice. We all wish you good luck and hope that all your current riding or designing or what ever it is you do,goes well. We too hope that the NEO Exile goes well as far as research is concerned.

Looking forward to next years TDF, watching all those riders go up through the mountains on heavy,flexible bikes.

Thanks for the input Alienator, now let someone else get a word in..............eh?

 

[alienator]

Now Now, lets not get a wound up about this. I think its fair to say that you wont be riding one of the frames from NEO by personal choice. We all wish you good luck and hope that all your current riding or designing or what ever it is you do,goes well. We too hope that the NEO Exile goes well as far as research is concerned.

Looking forward to next years TDF, watching all those riders go up through the mountains on heavy,flexible bikes.

Thanks for the input Alienator, now let someone else get a word in..............eh?

So you can't answer the questions, directly, right? You cannot actually answer questions with facts, right? Another marketing whiz kid is born, I guess.

 

[Hanzypanzy]

So you can't answer the questions, directly, right? You cannot actually answer questions with facts, right? Another marketing whiz kid is born, I guess.

Please set your questions out, in a logical and non agressive manor,back them up with some useful facts,intellectual also,and then we can discuss, no problem in talking like an adult about this, but give me some back round on yourself and back up your ideas.

Remember, life will still go on if the whole world thinks the same as you about the product, but in the mean time, lets discuss ........................

 

[alienator]

Please set your questions out, in a logical and non agressive manor,back them up with some useful facts,intellectual also,and then we can discuss, no problem in talking like an adult about this, but give me some back round on yourself and back up your ideas.

Remember, life will still go on if the whole world thinks the same as you about the product, but in the mean time, lets discuss ........................

How how much does the light weight of the NEO exile improve climbing? What percentage increase, as a function of slope, power and mass, should a person see with this weight compared to heavier frame? What percentage increase, again as a function of slope, mass, and power, should a person expect in speed?

What has been done to increase lateral stiffness in the bottom bracket? How many watts will this save? What has been done to increase the tortional stiffness of the BB? How many watts will that save? What percentage of a rider's power is wasted in BB flex or torsion? What has been done to increase the torsional stiffness of the head tube? How much will that increase the mechanical efficiency of the bike rider system? Have losses due to hysteresis been addressed only by increasing stiffness, or has the CF matrix been altered so that for a given amount of flex or torsion, energy losses to hysteresis are reduced?

What are the fatigue modes of this new frame? Do the frame and fork have any characteristic harmonics, in the spectrum of riding conditions possible, that would compromise bike stability and/or control?

Can you please detail how compliance in the vertical plane has been addressed? What was done to make the bike flex in that plane more than the few parts of a millimeter that almost every other frame on the market flexes?

When the stiffness was "improved," was vibrational damping also addressed? How so?

How big of an effect does flexure in the vertical plane have compared to other methods of "improving" comfort?

As for facts, why do I need facts to present logical questions? Up until this point, I've been using what are considered to be facts re: the static and dynamic properties of bicycles.

My background? Hmmm. What is yours? I've dabbled a bit in science and engineering, doing design and design analysis of airborne sensor platforms in both dynamic and static cases. I've worked in a lab where we did testing of composite (i.e., carbon fiber) and metal parts used in jet and rocket engines. For the last 4 years I've specialized in high precision metrology, like developing systems to measure to very high resolution (like to a nanometer) and analyzing said measurement data.

Since you're now going to tell me how all of the different design and structural features of this frame make performance gains that are above the noise threshold for measurement, you should fill everyone in on your background.