Now that we all agree: recumbents are the fastest bikes...



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"B. Sanders" wrote:
>
> ...How long will we have to wait before US bikes shops start selling lowracers and
> quasi-lowracers?...
>
> Still, I can't help but think that there must be *some* way to make such a venture work (no, I
> don't mean sweatshops.)
>
> Any thoughts?

Yeah: Get on it. Prove it can be done.

Maybe if you spent less time trying to convert the denizens of r.b.misc, and more time working on
your business plan, you could get the masses on 'bents.

Or maybe not. But if you don't try, you'll never know.

Clearly, plan A (posting endlessly about 'bents being faster) isn't working!

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]
 
In article <[email protected]>, Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>"B. Sanders" wrote:
>>
>> ...How long will we have to wait before US bikes shops start selling lowracers and
>> quasi-lowracers?...
>>
>> Still, I can't help but think that there must be *some* way to make such a venture work (no, I
>> don't mean sweatshops.)
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>
>Yeah: Get on it. Prove it can be done.
>
>Maybe if you spent less time trying to convert the denizens of r.b.misc, and more time working on
>your business plan, you could get the masses on 'bents.
>
>Or maybe not. But if you don't try, you'll never know.
>
>Clearly, plan A (posting endlessly about 'bents being faster) isn't working!

No actually it is working, all these recumbent threads on rec.bicycles.misc have made me think bent
riders (on Usenet) fall into several categories:

1. clever engineers who want to set (flat) land speed records
2. raving sociopaths
3. geezers who don't care about going fast and want to exercise in a la-z-boy

Anyway, it really makes me want a recumbent to try out for myself on hilly rides I know. Low racer
looks good to me, I just need to get up the nerve.

--Paul
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 11:23:30 +0100, "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Well, I only have one at present, but it's a B17 and therefore a work of The Great One.
>
> Yes - a B17 Narrow on the tourer, perfectly acceptable. A couple of other saddles, one on the MTB
> (horrid for more than 5 miles), one on the triplet (ditto), so Mr Brooks will be commissioned to
> supply another of his fine **** tenderisers some day.
>
> But the *comfy* bike, of course, is a 'bent.
>
> Guy
> ===
> ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
> dynamic DNS permitting)
> NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
> work. Apologies.

Ah yes, old fellow. Good to see you are still riding, in a way. I remember when you were still able
to ride a *real* bike (pre bent era). It's good to hear you have a good seat cushion. ;-) Oh yes, my
fave saddle is a 'Selle Italia Trans Am', generic Italian saddle, but fairly skinny, very rideable.
Best regards, Bernie
 
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
> > "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:WjWra.439051$Zo.100924@sccrnsc03...
> >
> >>>Renting a work space is very cheap around here. Used drill presses can
be
> >>
> >>had for a hundred bucks (or free if you're a good shopper). A tubing notcher is probably $100 or
> >>less, and/or could be fabricated. I already
have
> >>a Porter-Cable 12" miter saw - perfect for cutting tubing with a diamond disc.
> >
> >
> > No wonder you guys look like total dorks out on the road.
> >
> > Talking about work space and renting metal working tools make you sound like the useless retired
> > old fart who lives near me.
> >
> >
> Eh, btw, those useless old guys who work with machine tools are the ones who build your bikes.

We don't need any more proof that Fabi is a dim bulb.

B
 
"Eugene Cottrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:dr%[email protected]...
> Barry,
>
> You seem to have a one track mind on this subject. Bents have been around for at least 70 years
> and most people just don't like them. They make
lots
> of flavors of ice cream, but vanilla and chocolate are the most popular.
If
> you like pistachio, then by all means, buy it, but don't try to convince
the
> world that it's the best thing going. Bents have a very limited audience for a lot of very good
> reasons. They're uncomfortable, unstable, have
poor
> acceleration from a stop and are slower than the DF in most real world riding situations (i.e..
> they're only good on flat to rolling terrain).
In
> all the years they've been produced, there still isn't any standard type
or
> most popular. Everyone is tinkering trying to get it right and nobody has been able to produce a
> bent that is liked by a majority. Most of the guys in this group who say they love their bent keep
> buying new and different styles, trying to find the one that works. So far, it appears, there is
> none that works well enough to mass produce. I say, there are those that like bents and those that
> like DFs, so, why would anybody try to convince the other side that theirs is best? Certainly
> speed is not the primary consideration for most recreational riders anyway, whether DFs or bents
are
> fastest. And US bike shops are going to sell what their customers want. The bike shops around here
> that do sell bents, do not carry them in stock. They will order it and put it together for you if
> you want one. They just can't sell enough to justify stocking them. All of the LBSs around here
> have a demo (or the shop owners personal bent) to try, but they won't
stock
> any. Why can't you face it a move on, the majority just don't want a
bent.
> If you think they're wrong, then just swallow hard and move on with your life.

Do you know thing one about marketing? Do you know the history of the lightweight racing bikes still
known to this day as "10 speeds"? Are you old enough to remember when naysayers were calling them
"flimsy" and "unsafe"? "Look at those skinny tires!" the ignorant would exclaim, "Hit a pothole and
the whole thing will just fold right up! No sir, none of that flimsy imported speed bike nonsense
for me! I'm buying a real American bike, with comfortable balloon tires and pretty chrome fenders."

Well, what do you know? A few years later, thanks in part to enthusiasm from bike shop employees cum
amateur racers, and other speed enthusiasts, 10 speeds were all the rage. Every teenager had one.
They were sold in department stores by the millions. They were still uncomfortable and less safe
than balloon tire bikes; but one very important thing had happened: Public perception of the
benefits of 10 speeds now outweighed other considerations (discomfort, not as durable, extreme
riding position vs. upright). This did not happen overnight; but it did happen. 10 speeds were
almost singlehandedly responsible for the huge bike boom of the 1970's. It

The moral of the story: Any ignorant bozo can size up the current US bike sales picture, post to
Usenet, and say "it will be this way for evermore;" but they'd be wrong. Did we expect mountain
bikes to boom as they have? "Look at those silly fat tires! They're so heavy and slow! Who would
want one of those when they can have a nice 10 speed for the same price?" Sure, you can always wait
until something new becomes commonplace, and then get on board like it's something you always
believed in. That's the common way. But there are always a few visionaries around, working on
strange bikes - riding down mountainsides on a bike they call "The Clunker." Those kind of bikes end
up in the Smithsonian, because they change the way we think of bicycles. Many have said that
mountain bikes are really just a rebirth of bikes built in the 1890's. So what? The important thing
about mountain bikes is the same thing that is important about every bike: It's the dream that goes
along with it. Mountain bikes project a dream of limitless adventure. Road bikes project a dream of
winning organized road races. Low racers project a dream of maximum speed combined with
uncompromising rider comfort. The fact

who love them. Like 10 speeds, lowracers can be sold to other consumer demographics - all it takes
is marketing.

and unique. The same thing happened to mountain bikes (they are also safer and more practical than
road racing bikes). A similar phenomenon could happen to recumbents (including lowracers) if the
current crop of US built

riding my M5 around populated areas. Chicks dig 'em, and that's all male buyers need to know.

So I know how I want to market lowracers in the US. The idea for an Extreme Speed Race Series is one
part of that marketing equation.

-Barry
 
"Paul Southworth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:u1sa.34871$A%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"B. Sanders" wrote:
> >>
> >> ...How long will we have to wait before US bikes shops start selling lowracers and
> >> quasi-lowracers?...
> >>
> >> Still, I can't help but think that there must be *some* way to make
such a
> >> venture work (no, I don't mean sweatshops.)
> >>
> >> Any thoughts?
> >
> >Yeah: Get on it. Prove it can be done.
> >
> >Maybe if you spent less time trying to convert the denizens of r.b.misc, and more time working on
> >your business plan, you could get the masses on 'bents.
> >
> >Or maybe not. But if you don't try, you'll never know.
> >
> >Clearly, plan A (posting endlessly about 'bents being faster) isn't working!
>
> No actually it is working, all these recumbent threads on rec.bicycles.misc have made me think
> bent riders (on Usenet) fall into several categories:
>
> 1. clever engineers who want to set (flat) land speed records
> 2. raving sociopaths
> 3. geezers who don't care about going fast and want to exercise in a la-z-boy

You forgot my group:

4. sincere enthusiasts who believe the race results proving that lowracers are the fastest
bikes on Earth.

> Anyway, it really makes me want a recumbent to try out for myself on hilly rides I know. Low racer
> looks good to me, I just need to get up the nerve.

You'll need some nerve. Low racers are *very* different from upright bikes. That is actually a
marketing benefit, if handled correctly:

"It looks so...extreme."

"It is extreme. Want a test ride?"

"Um...sure...I guess."

"Do you have medical insurance?"

"Huh? Oh, yeah. Why do you ask?"

LOL!

-Barry
 
> Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
> > No wonder you guys look like total dorks out on the road.

Says the guy who waxes his legs and puts vaseline down his pants ...and thats just for a night
out in town.
 
"Eugene Cottrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<dr%[email protected]>...
> Barry,
>
> You seem to have a one track mind on this subject. Bents have been around for at least 70 years
> and most people just don't like them. They make lots of flavors of ice cream, but vanilla and
> chocolate are the most popular. If you like pistachio, then by all means, buy it, but don't try to
> convince the world that it's the best thing going. Bents have a very limited audience for a lot of
> very good reasons. They're uncomfortable, unstable, have poor acceleration from a stop and are
> slower than the DF in most real world riding situations (i.e.. they're only good on flat to
> rolling terrain). In all the years they've been produced, there still isn't any standard type or
> most popular. Everyone is tinkering trying to get it right and nobody has been able to produce a
> bent that is liked by a majority. Most of the guys in this group who say they love their bent keep
> buying new and different styles, trying to find the one that works. So far, it appears, there is
> none that works well enough to mass produce. I say, there are those that like bents and those that
> like DFs, so, why would anybody try to convince the other side that theirs is best? Certainly
> speed is not the primary consideration for most recreational riders anyway, whether DFs or bents
> are fastest. And US bike shops are going to sell what their customers want. The bike shops around
> here that do sell bents, do not carry them in stock. They will order it and put it together for
> you if you want one. They just can't sell enough to justify stocking them. All of the LBSs around
> here have a demo (or the shop owners personal bent) to try, but they won't stock any. Why can't
> you face it a move on, the majority just don't want a bent. If you think they're wrong, then just
> swallow hard and move on with your life.
>
> Gene
>
> PS: Yes, I recognize your post as a troll, but I thought it would be fun to nibble the bait and
> post some truth.

>
Gene, you have said it better than I ever could myself. I have been following the posts on this
newsgroup for over a year now and the enthusiasts just about drive me crazy sometimes. I was an
enthusiast for recumbents myself many years ago, but I outgrew it. Upright bikes do so much better
than any recumbent in so many repects that it is unfair to even make the comparisons.

I do find recumbents to be more comfy than any upright but that may be because I got out of shape
and soft with increasing age. The one best thing that can be said about recumbents is that we will
ride them longer into our old age than we would an upright, and therefore reap some health benefits
by so doing.

I would like to add one thought to what you have said. There is something about working with our
legs (yes, when we are biking our bodies are working) in a seated position that goes against what
nature intended us to be doing. We are designed for working in the upright postion. It is what being
an upright walking creature is all about. The upright bicycle remains true to this biological
imperative.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"B. Sanders" skrev

> When I say "I've crunched some numbers and they didn't look promising" that's what I meant. OTOH,
> US custom framebuilders do stay in business year after year. The market for lowracers also exists
> outside the US border. I'm not acquainted with US export laws; but I'm betting that I could sell a
> few bikes in the EU.

Not many I think. The price would go up by 40-50% for a european buyer with toll and V.A.T. and
shipping. So its just not worth it, especially when theres a wide variety of european bikes already
available.

Mikael Denmark
 
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Zach Kaplan Cycles wrote:
> >
> > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > > Avoid designing a bike with a three piece, mandrel bent, heat-treated frame with custom Delrin
> > > inserts in the telescoping sections if you wish to keep the price down. An aluminium frame
> > > seat with a custom mesh cover, a custom rear rack, custom Phil Wood hubs, and a custom chain
> > > tensioner will also drive the price up. :(
> > >
> > > Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
> >
> > The custom inserts on the Earth Cycles Sunset frame are black anodised aluminium, not Delrin.
> > The seat frame on the Sunset is steel, not aluminium.
>
> Zach,
>
> I should stop posting after I wake up in the middle of the night. ;) I suspect the non-magnetic
> parts of the seat and rack to be a stainless alloy, unless Shean discovered how to weld aluminum
> and steel together.
>
> I have never taken my Sunset apart to see what the inserts looked like inside - in this case I was
> passing along incorrect information.
>
> Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

The parts of the seat frame that interface with the bolts on the bike frame are stainless steel and
the rest of the seat frame is non-stainless steel, I believe CrMo. One of the nice touches on both
the Dragonflyer and Sunset is the fact that all the parts on the frame that will potentially have
paint abrasion such as dropouts, bottle braze-ons, fairing mounts and seat mounts are made of
stainless steel so they won't corrode. I do wish the whole seat frame were stainless steel like
Easy Racers Koolback seat frames and early BikeEs as the seat fabric and leaning the bike against
walls or crashing can abrade the paint and cause corrosion on CrMo steel. I guess even Shean had to
draw the cost vs. benefit line somewhere. Now a titanium Sunset with titanium seat frame would be
really neat.

Zach Kaplan
 
On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:33:37 -0400, "Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Easy....do a Co-operative, something along the lines of Burley. Design a product, get 10-20 people
>into the design, pool $, get backing from a Credit Union and you are set. It isn't rocket science
>to grow a company if the product is good and at a price (below) an Optima or M5. The American
>advantage is offshore companies get hammered via import duties. Homegrown bents don't get nailed as
>hard.Insurance is less, shipping is less

Or if you really wanted to offer inexpensive lowracers in the US, you could buy a container full of
frames from these guys:

http://www.recumbent.com.tw/bents/model.htm

and do just enough assembly in the US to avoid import duties. I don't know the price for those, but
the frame kits for their SWB
(451/622, USS) are selling for $400 in Japan and based on what I've seen, outselling every other
recumbent.

Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/
 
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Eugene Cottrell wrote:

> > ... Bents have a very limited audience for a lot of very good reasons. They're uncomfortable,
> > unstable, have poor acceleration from a stop and are slower than the DF in most real world
> > riding situations (i.e.. they're only good on flat to rolling terrain)....
> > PS: Yes, I recognize your post as a troll, but I thought it would be fun to nibble the bait and
> > post some truth.
>
> Uncomfortable? Is that why after a long enough ride on my Sunset Lowracer to cause me to become
> very tired, I am happy to stop next to a solid object, lean the edge of the seat against it to
> support the bike, and just sit there for a while? Has anyone ever seen an upright bicycle rider
> sit on his/her bike in the same situation because it was so comfortable?

I do tend to agree with you on the comfort factor but I was not all that uncomfortable on an upright
30 years ago. It is just that as the years went by I got more and more uncomfortable. And like most
recreational cyclists I refused to train just so I could be comfortable on the bike. Sometimes
though I think we recumbent cyclists like to sit too much and that upright cyclists are just not so
much into sitting all the time.
>
> Unstable? My lowracer is stable from about 3 mph (~5 kph) to the highest speed I have attained of
> about 55 mph (~90 kph). This covers almost all riding I have ever done.

Ah, but you are talking skill here. Most of us like to ride our bicycles with out making a big
investment in skill. I know folks who can roller skate backwards, but does that mean roller skates
are stable? You have got to make a big investment in learning how to ride a low racer or any SWB for
that matter.
>
> Most real world riding situations? Even if your argument that recumbents are very poor climbers is
> accepted, the majority of the world's population lives in relatively flat areas.

What is this "even if..." business? It is a forgone conclusion. As to flatness, there are all
varieties of that too. I have often thought that the perfect recumbent tour for me would be a round
trip from Fargo to Winnipeg. Now that is FLAT!
>
> Your "truth" is nothing more than opinions that almost all who have ridden recumbent bicycles
> extensively would disagree with.

Well, that is what "truth" is for all of us if we could ever be honest with ourselves. I do believe
you are quite correct though in your assessment of how the folks on this newsgroup perceive
recumbents, but there are thousands of other kinds of recumbent riders who wouldn't have the
slightest notion of what you are talking about when you say you go 55 mph on your lowracer.
>

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
"B. Sanders" wrote:
> ... Low racers project a dream of maximum speed combined with

> ... Chicks dig 'em, and that's all male buyers need to know....

Here are some examples of the most visually attractive lowracers (and some semi-lowracers). <
http://www.hurricane.nl/images/jester_groot.jpg > < http://www.hurricane.nl/images/taifun_groot.jpg
> < http://www.hurricane.nl/images/hurricane_serie_groot.jpg > <
http://www.hurricane.nl/images/hurricane_race_groot.jpg > <
http://www.m5-ligfietsen.com/images_ti_sp/ti_sp_integraal_rechts.jpg > <
http://www.m5-ligfietsen.com/images/lowracer.jpg > <
http://www.m5-ligfietsen.com/carbon_racer/carbon_lr_rechts_a.jpg > <
http://www.optima-cycles.nl/eng/images/11.jpg > < http://www.optima-cycles.nl/eng/images/01.jpg > <
http://www.optima-cycles.nl/eng/images/10.jpg >

Here is one that is not as elegant as the Dutch designs, but much cuter. <
ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset001.jpg > [1]

As for women finding lowracers attractive, there is one general exception to the rule - most women
roadies generally view them with an apparent disdainful attitude.

[1] Unfortunately, out of production, and mine is NOT FOR SALE.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
skip wrote:
> ... I agree with Tom Sherman...

Notify AP and Reuters! ;)

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
"Paul Southworth" skrev...

> Anyway, it really makes me want a recumbent to try out for myself on hilly rides I know. Low racer
> looks good to me, I just need to get up the nerve.

I think the morale of this thread is that someone (Barry) should stop crossposting.

But just in case you're being serious get a carbon bike for hills. At 24.25 lbs my Velokraft doesn't
have too much of a weight disadvantage and theres no chaininterference either so its not hard to
learn to ride. Cost me a little under 2000 usd kitted out with a mix of Ultegra, 105 and Deore XT
etc. http://community.webshots.com/user/mseierup

I ride to stay in shape and because I love bicycling.

M.
 
"Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
> > > No wonder you guys look like total dorks out on the road.
>
> Says the guy who waxes his legs and puts vaseline down his pants ...and thats just for a night out
> in town.

But Mikael - off course he needs to have aero legs, when he's waving them around all the way up
there in the stratosphere. I bet he bought aero-tubed DF frame and seatpost in the eighties [1].

[1] If he was old enough back then.

Torben - old (35) fart using tools - Scheel
 
Tom,

Im interested in your claim that

>"the majority of the world's population lives in relatively flat areas"

How do you know this? (I would be interested in the refference) Or is it just an assumption from
your experience?

Tom Nicholson

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Eugene Cottrell wrote:
> > ... Bents have a very limited audience for a lot of very good reasons. They're uncomfortable,
> > unstable, have poor acceleration from a stop and are slower than the DF in most real world
> > riding situations (i.e.. they're only good on flat to rolling terrain)....
> > PS: Yes, I recognize your post as a troll, but I thought it would be fun to nibble the bait and
> > post some truth.
>
> Uncomfortable? Is that why after a long enough ride on my Sunset Lowracer to cause me to become
> very tired, I am happy to stop next to a solid object, lean the edge of the seat against it to
> support the bike, and just sit there for a while? Has anyone ever seen an upright bicycle rider
> sit on his/her bike in the same situation because it was so comfortable?
>
> Unstable? My lowracer is stable from about 3 mph (~5 kph) to the highest speed I have attained of
> about 55 mph (~90 kph). This covers almost all riding I have ever done.
>
> Most real world riding situations? Even if your argument that recumbents are very poor climbers is
> accepted, the majority of the world's population lives in relatively flat areas.
>
> Your "truth" is nothing more than opinions that almost all who have ridden recumbent bicycles
> extensively would disagree with.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
"Ken Kobayashi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:CDBBC3CFD92EACB9.C68C82135937034B.AAE1074CB62B824C@lp.airnews.net...
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:33:37 -0400, "Wile E.Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Easy....do a Co-operative, something along the lines of Burley. Design a product, get 10-20
> >people into the design, pool $, get backing
from
> >a Credit Union and you are set. It isn't rocket science to grow a company
if
> >the product is good and at a price (below) an Optima or M5. The American advantage is offshore
> >companies get hammered via import duties.
Homegrown
> >bents don't get nailed as hard.Insurance is less, shipping is less
>
> Or if you really wanted to offer inexpensive lowracers in the US, you could buy a container full
> of frames from these guys:
>
> http://www.recumbent.com.tw/bents/model.htm
>
> and do just enough assembly in the US to avoid import duties. I don't know the price for those,
> but the frame kits for their SWB
> (451/622, USS) are selling for $400 in Japan and based on what I've seen, outselling every other
> recumbent.

Ken, that's a great idea! (If it would work...) At the $400 price point, I can only imagine how well
they are selling. It takes many factors to popularize a "new" product category, but affordability
never hurts.

I might just drop them some email and ask about their prices for various quantities of certain
models in their line.

-Barry
 
Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>... ...
> > Unstable? My lowracer is stable from about 3 mph (~5 kph) to the highest speed I have attained
> > of about 55 mph (~90 kph). This covers almost all riding I have ever done.
>
> Ah, but you are talking skill here. Most of us like to ride our bicycles with out making a big
> investment in skill. I know folks who can roller skate backwards, but does that mean roller skates
> are stable? You have got to make a big investment in learning how to ride a low racer or any SWB
> for that matter....

Riding a properly designed lowracer [1] does not require that much skill. I learned to ride an
upright bicycle at a much later age (10 years) than most people - I simply did not have the
coordination at an earlier age to master the skill. I have also ridden upright bikes thousands of
miles, yet I will crash most of the time if I try most of the maneuvers that upright bicycle
advocates use to point out the superiority of the upright design, e.g. curb/obstacle jumping, bunny
hopping, riding hands off for extended distances, track stands, etc. If I can ride a lowracer with
no problem, so anyone who has normal balance and gross motor skills should also be able to do so.

For what it is worth, my first ride on an Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer [TM] was on the prototype in
March 2000. At that time, I had about 1200 miles riding experience on a RANS Wave LWB, and less than
5 miles experience riding SWB recumbents, yet I was able to ride the Sunset with no problems other
than some wobble the first couple of times I started out on the bike. This is hardly a huge
investment in learning new skills.

I believe the reason that many experienced upright riders have so much trouble with recumbents is
that they insist on trying to ride them the same way as an upright bike which does not work well. If
they would relax and stop over-controlling the bike, they would master the basic recumbent riding
skills in 15 minutes or less.

[1] Anyone who is able to ride a recumbent will have no problem with an Earth Cycles Sunset after a
few minutes on the bike.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
 
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