opinions

[leanman]

what kind of workouts do you need to do when you are in a pace line and when its your turn you go 1-2 mph slower? nomatter how fast they go i can keep up, but into the wind alone i lack the current power like they all have now.. what kind of workout will bring up my power? also, on rolling hills i can keep up as i go fast down, get out of the saddle and hammer 30-40 rpm's, but a few long 2 mile climbs i was almost dropped.. what kind of workouts for these longer climbs...
thanks

 

[smaryka]

Man up and ride harder on the front. Make your turns shorter (how long are they that you can't ride 1-2mph harder than usual?) If you're really at risk of blowing up then get your turn done fast and get off the front. Or find a better more well-matched group to ride with. Or don't take any turns at all. Or take your turns and blow up and get dropped but hopefully later and later in the ride each time so that eventually you can last the whole thing.

Lots of options, but really if you want to be better at raising your power for ~30-60 secs then recovering in a paceline, then you need to do that solo too. But honestly it's easier if you just ride in a group that suits you so that your time spent wheelsucking is far enough below threshold that your time on the front (which is harder, well over threshold) doesn't kill you. If you're barely hanging on when you're in the wheels, of course you aren't going to be able to lift it much when you're on the front.

Get fitter overall, lose some weight and the longer climbs won't hurt you as much. But they may always hurt you if the people you ride with are just stronger with a better power to weight ratio.

Learn to spin faster than 30-40rpm out of the saddle, or get more gears. If you can't keep your legs turning over very fast, then the slightest gap to the wheel in front will get you dropped because your cadence is too low to spin up and react fast enough to close the gap.

 

[leanman]

thanks... its only he and i.. hes one of those young 51:00 40k guys that rides 120-135 miles on saturdays and repeats that on sundays and does an hour or a bit more per day during the week in the winter. spring summer and fall, hes doing that on the weekends and 3 hours wednesdays and 1-2 hours the other days...i'm 60 yeasrs old... come spring and summer i can do 1/3 of the work up front when we train together..maybe cause hes single and all he does is train hes much better this time of year. i train daily too, but lack those long weekend rides. fri sat and sunday he had 320 miles in.. i been training and racing for years, but always wanna get other peoples opinions on what to do to get stronger and faster. some say 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off for a few of these.. some say 1 minute intervals with a lot of rest in a bigger gear.. some say 20 minute intervals.. some say hill repeats..i do them all. maybe i just aint as fit as him at this time of year as my longer rides have been slower and only 2 hours..hes lucky. hes dosent burn out. he trains hard all the time.. i know him 20 years and he rides hard all the time year round.. thanks

 

[leanman]

it was 3 of us for just a short while. the other guys a young cat1 form out of town on a small pro team

 

[RapDaddyo]

It sounds as though what you need to do is to improve your sustainable aerobic power, commonly measured by your Functional Threshold Power (the average power you can maintain solo for about an hour). The primary way to increase your aerobic power is with aerobic efforts (91%+FTP) of at least 10 minutes and preferably longer. Depending on the group, it's very difficult to get in many 10+min efforts in a group ride. When you are riding in the draft, you are putting out about 1/3 less power than the rider on front (and even less if you are several riders from the front). So, let's say the rider on front is riding at 300W. Your output will be closer to 200W.

So, you have a couple of choices to get in 10+min segments at 91%+ of your FTP. One solution is to talk with the group, explain why you want to put in 10+mins on front and then stay on front for 10+mins when it's your turn on front. You have a small group and it sounds as though this might be an option for you. It's unrealistic with large groups (e.g., 20+ riders). A second solution is to ride out of the draft when you are in back. You can get out of the draft by riding a foot or so offset from the rider in front, especially in a crosswind (ride offset upwind). Obviously, a third solution is to do more solo rides where you can set your own pace.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo
Obviously, a third solution is to do more solo rides where you can set your own pace.

It was the third solution that seemed to work for me. It was a hard choice to make, but it worked.

Now when I return to ride with them I have no trouble keeping up with the most aggressive surges unless my residual fatigue from previous days is too high. But on a normal training week even under a bit of fatigue I hold on. With some rest I can dish out some pain.

There is a lot more to it like I also used your primary way using intervals at ~20 minutes of 91% FTP. All of this mainly was getting into a groove using an intensity and a structure that helped me increase my weekly training time.

 

[BrianMacDonald]

Anyone will tell you that two person rides can be brutal for the weaker person if the pace is hard. Train hard and get stronger and maybe think about riding less with this person until you are better matched.

 

[leanman]

thanks for the replies... it'll be just he and i tomorrow again.. and i'll do however much i can on the front, but being realistic with myself, i'll be riding behind him 90% of the time..god, i wish i was young again, to be able to train all day. hes out on another 120+ mile ride and i had time for an hour on the trainer.. i do the one thing suggested, and thats not sit directly behind, get out a bit into the wind.. i still believe i get a far better workout drafting him than doing a solo ride on my own. i cant go 23-27 mph into the wind yet. i aint that fit and 30+ with a tail wind for an hour.. come spring and summer, but not now..i feel i'm working way harder drafting him than being out on my own.. i have no power meter, so its just hr and feel.. i do go hard on my own, but this training with him is very much more demanding..plus, its an age thing too. at 60,i hate to admit it, but we do slow down a bit.. sucks!! lol..

 

[cyclightning]

Simplest solution is to not go to the front at all.. just stay at the back and pop out a little into the wind according to your ability.. or agree beforehand that you do just short 30 second pulls.