Paul Saunders

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by David Gibbins, Sep 1, 2004.



  1. Katherine

    Katherine Guest

    Gordon wrote:

    > The Reids <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    >>Following up to Paul Saunders
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Welcome back; will you be stopping for long?
    >>>>
    >>>Not my intention. I broke the silence because there's one thing I
    >>>particularly want to mention, not to go back to my former ways.
    >>>

    >>hmmm, they say addicts must stay away totally, so if you can post
    >>a bit then go off for a walk or something..............
    >>

    >
    > I'd say he is right back to his old style.
    > Newsgroups Anonymous is Thataway >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    >


    Yep

    Katherine
     
  2. Phil Cook

    Phil Cook Guest

    On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:04:22 +0100, Paul Saunders wrote:

    >John Laird wrote:
    >
    >>> Indeed. Best time of year to go wild camping, on a bare mountain...

    >>
    >> Doesn't the Mussorgsky frighten the wildlife away ?


    >I was very pleased that the original version was performed at the Proms
    >a few nights ago, specifically "St. John's Night on the Bare Mountain"
    >rather than Rimsky's over played "Night on Bare Mountain" version. I
    >prefer the original myself, maybe because we hear it so rarely.


    Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
    by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
    case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
    three different versions.

    There is a long history in western classical music of works being
    re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
    the original intentions of the composer.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
     
  3. Fran

    Fran Guest

    [email protected] said...
    > On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:37:17 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Gordon wrote:
    > >
    > >> Aaah yes! Halloween - your Dark Side, and all that....

    > >
    > >Indeed. Best time of year to go wild camping, on a bare mountain...

    >
    > Doesn't the Mussorgsky frighten the wildlife away ?
    >

    Of course not! It's more likely to encourage it!
    --
    I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
    as a dire warning.
     
  4. Fran

    Fran Guest

    [email protected] said...
    > John Laird wrote:
    >
    > >> Indeed. Best time of year to go wild camping, on a bare mountain...

    > >
    > > Doesn't the Mussorgsky frighten the wildlife away ?

    >
    > :)
    >
    > I was very pleased that the original version was performed at the Proms
    > a few nights ago, specifically "St. John's Night on the Bare Mountain"
    > rather than Rimsky's over played "Night on Bare Mountain" version. I
    > prefer the original myself, maybe because we hear it so rarely. The
    > Radio Times did not make this fact clear though, giving the incorrect
    > title. Tut tut!


    It's all Musorgsky's music though surely? Variations on a theme
    of black sabbaths and all that.
    --
    I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
    as a dire warning.
     
  5. Phil Cook wrote:

    > Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    > partially orchestrated.


    A bit like my website then...

    Bit of a boozer too wasn't he? Didn't he die of alcohol poisoning at
    age 33 or something like that? Terrible waste.

    > A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
    > by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
    > case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
    > three different versions.


    Really? I've heard a bit of that but I couldn't get into it. In fact I
    just can't get into opera at all. I like the instrumental bits and the
    choral bits, but not the solo voices.

    > There is a long history in western classical music of works being
    > re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
    > the original intentions of the composer.


    Probably.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  6. Fran wrote:

    > It's all Musorgsky's music though surely?


    Mostly yes, although I think Rimsky added the slow bit at the end (have
    to listen to the original again to make sure - good job I videoed it).

    Rimsky's arrangement is much tighter and more powerful though, with a
    solid driving rhythm, he keeps the momentum going, until the slow end
    bit. Mussorgsky's original is more disjointed in comparison, lots of
    stops and starts, not so much continuity. It's like a collection of
    ideas thrown together than don't always gel as well as they could. I
    still like it, in spite of it's "bitty" nature, but it does sound a bit
    like a rough draft that needs to be tightened up, which is what Rimsky
    did, and did an extremely good job of it too.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  7. Phil Cook

    Phil Cook Guest

    On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:13:39 +0100, Paul Saunders wrote:

    >Phil Cook wrote:
    >
    >> Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    >> partially orchestrated.

    >
    >A bit like my website then...


    Yeah, get on with it and get it sorted or somebody else will muck it
    up when you're gone!

    >Bit of a boozer too wasn't he? Didn't he die of alcohol poisoning at
    >age 33 or something like that? Terrible waste.


    Boozer and a chemist too.
    >
    >> A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
    >> by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
    >> case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
    >> three different versions.

    >
    >Really? I've heard a bit of that but I couldn't get into it. In fact I
    >just can't get into opera at all. I like the instrumental bits and the
    >choral bits, but not the solo voices.


    I used to be a bit of a "bleeding chunks" man myself, then I went to
    see a few. It helps to be able to see what is going on, it is after
    all an audio-visual medium. You've probably heard bits of the
    coronation scene from Boris where there are two sets of bells going
    like crazy and a couple of choruses singing "Slava! Slava!" (Glory!
    Glory!) interspersed with Boris having a guilt trip about murdering
    the boy who should have been Tsar.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
     
  8. Jim Ford

    Jim Ford Guest

    * The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
    * of violets, as Paul Saunders <[email protected]> descended
    * on a shaft of golden sunlight, and announced:

    > I know. Right now I'm only posting in a few marked threads and not even
    > looking at new threads. Hopefully once these fizzle out I'll be gone
    > again...


    Yeah right - and look out for low flying pigs when you go again!

    Regards: Jim Ford
     
  9. Phil Cook wrote:

    > Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    > partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
    > by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
    > case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
    > three different versions.
    >
    > There is a long history in western classical music of works being
    > re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
    > the original intentions of the composer.


    I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
    last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
    'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
    if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
    orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
    original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
    really, though I have heard the original).


    --

    Bernie Hughes
     
  10. Duncan Gray

    Duncan Gray Guest

    "Bernie Hughes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Phil Cook wrote:
    >
    > > Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    > > partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
    > > by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
    > > case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
    > > three different versions.
    > >
    > > There is a long history in western classical music of works being
    > > re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
    > > the original intentions of the composer.

    >
    > I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
    > last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
    > 'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
    > if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
    > orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
    > original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
    > really, though I have heard the original).



    Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the recording
    have.

    I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more often
    than the
    Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer version more
    often too.

    --
    Duncan Gray

    www.duncolm.co.uk
    also The Mountaineering Council of Scotland
    www.mountaineering-scotland.org.uk
     
  11. Duncan Gray wrote:

    > Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the
    > recording have.
    >
    > I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more
    > often than the
    > Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer
    > version more often too.


    Well since we're playing one-upmanship here, has anybody else here got
    Tomita's version? And his Night on a Bare Mountain?

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  12. Gordon

    Gordon Guest

    Paul Saunders <[email protected]> wrote
    >Duncan Gray wrote:
    >
    >> Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the
    >> recording have.
    >>
    >> I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more
    >> often than the
    >> Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer
    >> version more often too.

    >
    >Well since we're playing one-upmanship here, has anybody else here got
    >Tomita's version? And his Night on a Bare Mountain?
    >

    No, but I've got some Mussorgski - Great Gate of Kiev, or Wigan or
    somewhere, and Pictures at an Exhibition, but I thought it too
    pretentious to mention in a walking group.

    They are part of the "Give Yourself a Stereo Checkout" suite, my first
    purchase after I invented and built my first stereo amplifier.

    (EF86/6BW6 with negative feedback tone controls for the benefit of the
    thermionic bottle afficionados).
    --
    Gordon
     
  13. Phil Cook

    Phil Cook Guest

    On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:21:37 +0100, Duncan Gray wrote:

    >"Bernie Hughes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> Phil Cook wrote:
    >>
    >> > Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    >> > partially orchestrated.


    Though of course he never intended Pictures to be anything but a pano
    piece.

    >> I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
    >> last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
    >> 'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
    >> if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
    >> orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
    >> original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
    >> really, though I have heard the original).


    That was a "pick and mix" Pictures done at the Proms

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/aboutmusic/musorgsky_pictures.shtml

    You must have heard the attribution of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs" which
    was orchesterted by Stokowski

    >Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the recording
    >have.


    Ravels is possibly the best orchestral version, hardly surprising
    given his skill at orchestration.

    >I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more often
    >than the Ravel.


    There is a tale of a pianist who was asked after a perfomance, "Who
    did the piano arrangement?"
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
     
  14. Fran

    Fran Guest

    [email protected] said...
    > You must have heard the attribution of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs" which
    > was orchesterted by Stokowski
    >

    Baba Yaga? (sp?)
    --
    I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
    as a dire warning.
     
  15. Bernard Hill

    Bernard Hill Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Bernie Hughes
    <[email protected]> writes
    >Phil Cook wrote:
    >
    >> Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    >> partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
    >> by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
    >> case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
    >> three different versions.
    >> There is a long history in western classical music of works being
    >> re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
    >> the original intentions of the composer.

    >
    >I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
    >last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
    >'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
    >if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of
    >obscure orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known
    >including the original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the
    >only one I know really, though I have heard the original).
    >
    >


    I have recordings of orchestrations by

    Leo Funtek,
    Tushmalov
    Elgar Howarth (for brass ensemble)
    and of course Ravel.

    as well as the original piano too of course. Seemingly the end is pretty
    unplayable (or ineffective?) on the piano as written and Radio 3's CD
    Review had a fascinating compilation of different endings played by
    various pianists.

    --
    Bernard Hill
    Braeburn Software
    Author of Music Publisher system
    Music Software written by musicians for musicians
    http://www.braeburn.co.uk
    Selkirk, Scotland
     
  16. Duncan Gray wrote:

    > "Bernie Hughes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Phil Cook wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
    >>>partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
    >>>by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
    >>>case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
    >>>three different versions.
    >>>
    >>>There is a long history in western classical music of works being
    >>>re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
    >>>the original intentions of the composer.

    >>
    >>I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
    >>last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
    >>'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
    >>if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
    >>orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
    >>original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
    >>really, though I have heard the original).

    >
    >
    >
    > Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the recording
    > have.


    Yes, of course.


    > I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more often
    > than the
    > Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer version more
    > often too.


    Never heard that one.


    --

    Bernie Hughes
     
  17. Phil Cook wrote:


    >>>I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
    >>>last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
    >>>'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
    >>>if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
    >>>orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
    >>>original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
    >>>really, though I have heard the original).

    >
    >
    > That was a "pick and mix" Pictures done at the Proms
    >
    > http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/aboutmusic/musorgsky_pictures.shtml
    >
    > You must have heard the attribution of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs" which
    > was orchesterted by Stokowski


    That was it, thank you.


    --

    Bernie Hughes
     
Loading...