Paul Saunders



Gordon wrote:

> The Reids <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>Following up to Paul Saunders
>>
>>
>>>>Welcome back; will you be stopping for long?
>>>>
>>>Not my intention. I broke the silence because there's one thing I
>>>particularly want to mention, not to go back to my former ways.
>>>
>>hmmm, they say addicts must stay away totally, so if you can post
>>a bit then go off for a walk or something..............
>>
>
> I'd say he is right back to his old style.
> Newsgroups Anonymous is Thataway >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>

Yep

Katherine
 
On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 23:04:22 +0100, Paul Saunders wrote:

>John Laird wrote:
>
>>> Indeed. Best time of year to go wild camping, on a bare mountain...
>>
>> Doesn't the Mussorgsky frighten the wildlife away ?

>I was very pleased that the original version was performed at the Proms
>a few nights ago, specifically "St. John's Night on the Bare Mountain"
>rather than Rimsky's over played "Night on Bare Mountain" version. I
>prefer the original myself, maybe because we hear it so rarely.

Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
three different versions.

There is a long history in western classical music of works being
re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
the original intentions of the composer.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
 
[email protected] said...
> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:37:17 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Gordon wrote:
> >
> >> Aaah yes! Halloween - your Dark Side, and all that....
> >
> >Indeed. Best time of year to go wild camping, on a bare mountain...
>
> Doesn't the Mussorgsky frighten the wildlife away ?
>
Of course not! It's more likely to encourage it!
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
as a dire warning.
 
[email protected] said...
> John Laird wrote:
>
> >> Indeed. Best time of year to go wild camping, on a bare mountain...
> >
> > Doesn't the Mussorgsky frighten the wildlife away ?
>
> :)
>
> I was very pleased that the original version was performed at the Proms
> a few nights ago, specifically "St. John's Night on the Bare Mountain"
> rather than Rimsky's over played "Night on Bare Mountain" version. I
> prefer the original myself, maybe because we hear it so rarely. The
> Radio Times did not make this fact clear though, giving the incorrect
> title. Tut tut!

It's all Musorgsky's music though surely? Variations on a theme
of black sabbaths and all that.
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
as a dire warning.
 
Phil Cook wrote:

> Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
> partially orchestrated.

A bit like my website then...

Bit of a boozer too wasn't he? Didn't he die of alcohol poisoning at
age 33 or something like that? Terrible waste.

> A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
> by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
> case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
> three different versions.

Really? I've heard a bit of that but I couldn't get into it. In fact I
just can't get into opera at all. I like the instrumental bits and the
choral bits, but not the solo voices.

> There is a long history in western classical music of works being
> re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
> the original intentions of the composer.

Probably.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
 
Fran wrote:

> It's all Musorgsky's music though surely?

Mostly yes, although I think Rimsky added the slow bit at the end (have
to listen to the original again to make sure - good job I videoed it).

Rimsky's arrangement is much tighter and more powerful though, with a
solid driving rhythm, he keeps the momentum going, until the slow end
bit. Mussorgsky's original is more disjointed in comparison, lots of
stops and starts, not so much continuity. It's like a collection of
ideas thrown together than don't always gel as well as they could. I
still like it, in spite of it's "bitty" nature, but it does sound a bit
like a rough draft that needs to be tightened up, which is what Rimsky
did, and did an extremely good job of it too.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
 
On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:13:39 +0100, Paul Saunders wrote:

>Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
>> partially orchestrated.
>
>A bit like my website then...

Yeah, get on with it and get it sorted or somebody else will muck it
up when you're gone!

>Bit of a boozer too wasn't he? Didn't he die of alcohol poisoning at
>age 33 or something like that? Terrible waste.

Boozer and a chemist too.
>
>> A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
>> by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
>> case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
>> three different versions.
>
>Really? I've heard a bit of that but I couldn't get into it. In fact I
>just can't get into opera at all. I like the instrumental bits and the
>choral bits, but not the solo voices.

I used to be a bit of a "bleeding chunks" man myself, then I went to
see a few. It helps to be able to see what is going on, it is after
all an audio-visual medium. You've probably heard bits of the
coronation scene from Boris where there are two sets of bells going
like crazy and a couple of choruses singing "Slava! Slava!" (Glory!
Glory!) interspersed with Boris having a guilt trip about murdering
the boy who should have been Tsar.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
 
* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as Paul Saunders <[email protected]> descended
* on a shaft of golden sunlight, and announced:

> I know. Right now I'm only posting in a few marked threads and not even
> looking at new threads. Hopefully once these fizzle out I'll be gone
> again...

Yeah right - and look out for low flying pigs when you go again!

Regards: Jim Ford
 
Phil Cook wrote:

> Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
> partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
> by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
> case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
> three different versions.
>
> There is a long history in western classical music of works being
> re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
> the original intentions of the composer.

I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
really, though I have heard the original).


--

Bernie Hughes
 
"Bernie Hughes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Phil Cook wrote:
>
> > Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
> > partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
> > by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
> > case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
> > three different versions.
> >
> > There is a long history in western classical music of works being
> > re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
> > the original intentions of the composer.
>
> I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
> last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
> 'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
> if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
> orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
> original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
> really, though I have heard the original).


Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the recording
have.

I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more often
than the
Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer version more
often too.

--
Duncan Gray

www.duncolm.co.uk
also The Mountaineering Council of Scotland
www.mountaineering-scotland.org.uk
 
Duncan Gray wrote:

> Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the
> recording have.
>
> I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more
> often than the
> Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer
> version more often too.

Well since we're playing one-upmanship here, has anybody else here got
Tomita's version? And his Night on a Bare Mountain?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
 
Paul Saunders <[email protected]> wrote
>Duncan Gray wrote:
>
>> Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the
>> recording have.
>>
>> I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more
>> often than the
>> Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer
>> version more often too.
>
>Well since we're playing one-upmanship here, has anybody else here got
>Tomita's version? And his Night on a Bare Mountain?
>
No, but I've got some Mussorgski - Great Gate of Kiev, or Wigan or
somewhere, and Pictures at an Exhibition, but I thought it too
pretentious to mention in a walking group.

They are part of the "Give Yourself a Stereo Checkout" suite, my first
purchase after I invented and built my first stereo amplifier.

(EF86/6BW6 with negative feedback tone controls for the benefit of the
thermionic bottle afficionados).
--
Gordon
 
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:21:37 +0100, Duncan Gray wrote:

>"Bernie Hughes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Phil Cook wrote:
>>
>> > Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
>> > partially orchestrated.

Though of course he never intended Pictures to be anything but a pano
piece.

>> I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
>> last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
>> 'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
>> if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
>> orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
>> original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
>> really, though I have heard the original).

That was a "pick and mix" Pictures done at the Proms

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/aboutmusic/musorgsky_pictures.shtml

You must have heard the attribution of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs" which
was orchesterted by Stokowski

>Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the recording
>have.

Ravels is possibly the best orchestral version, hardly surprising
given his skill at orchestration.

>I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more often
>than the Ravel.

There is a tale of a pianist who was asked after a perfomance, "Who
did the piano arrangement?"
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
 
[email protected] said...
> You must have heard the attribution of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs" which
> was orchesterted by Stokowski
>
Baba Yaga? (sp?)
--
I try to be a good example to my children, but they just see me
as a dire warning.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Bernie Hughes
<[email protected]> writes
>Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
>> partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
>> by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
>> case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
>> three different versions.
>> There is a long history in western classical music of works being
>> re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
>> the original intentions of the composer.
>
>I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
>last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
>'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
>if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of
>obscure orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known
>including the original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the
>only one I know really, though I have heard the original).
>
>

I have recordings of orchestrations by

Leo Funtek,
Tushmalov
Elgar Howarth (for brass ensemble)
and of course Ravel.

as well as the original piano too of course. Seemingly the end is pretty
unplayable (or ineffective?) on the piano as written and Radio 3's CD
Review had a fascinating compilation of different endings played by
various pianists.

--
Bernard Hill
Braeburn Software
Author of Music Publisher system
Music Software written by musicians for musicians
http://www.braeburn.co.uk
Selkirk, Scotland
 
Duncan Gray wrote:

> "Bernie Hughes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Phil Cook wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mussorgsky had a terrible work process and left a lot of stuff only
>>>partially orchestrated. A lot of his work is consequently orchestrated
>>>by other people. the Night on the Bare Mountain is just the best known
>>>case there is also his massive opera Boris Godunov which exists in
>>>three different versions.
>>>
>>>There is a long history in western classical music of works being
>>>re-orchestrated. Often they tell us more about the orchestrator than
>>>the original intentions of the composer.
>>
>>I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
>>last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
>>'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
>>if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
>>orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
>>original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
>>really, though I have heard the original).
>
>
>
> Isn't the usual orchestral version by Ravel? That's certainly the recording
> have.

Yes, of course.


> I've also got a recording of the piano version, and listen to it more often
> than the
> Ravel. Then again, I also listen to the Emerson, Lake & Palmer version more
> often too.

Never heard that one.


--

Bernie Hughes
 
Phil Cook wrote:


>>>I heard a rather bombastic orchestration of the Great Gate on the radio
>>>last week, but I didn't catch the name clearly- Slavic, beginning with
>>>'S', and 20th Century I think. Any ideas? The presenter (Sean Rafferty
>>>if I remember correctly) claimed that there were a whole pile of obscure
>>>orchestrations of Pictures at an Exhibition, abut 68 known including the
>>>original piano & Rimsky's famous version ( which is the only one I know
>>>really, though I have heard the original).
>
>
> That was a "pick and mix" Pictures done at the Proms
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/aboutmusic/musorgsky_pictures.shtml
>
> You must have heard the attribution of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs" which
> was orchesterted by Stokowski

That was it, thank you.


--

Bernie Hughes
 
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