pedal reflectors



in message <[email protected]>, Chris Gerhard
('[email protected]') wrote:

> CJ wrote:
>>
>> So that's how it is. Now go write to your MPs about it, not here, it
>> changes nothing!
>
> Been there seen that got the T shirt. Now if the CTC could coordinate
> this that might help.
>
> However my pedals (Campag profit) have reflectors made for them but
> getting them imported to the UK seems to be impossible. If the CTC shop
> were to stock them that would be a step in the right direction for those
> of us who want to be within the law but also want decent pedals. If
> anyone knows a shop that stocks them I would love to know as my last
> pair have broken and good though they are you have to treat them as if
> they are consumables for me they last about 2 years.

Parker International - I quoted the part number up-thread somewhere.

> That would be the kind of service to members that the CTC shop should
> provide.

Indeed.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Let's have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
;; in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle.
;; Rep. Earl Blumenauer (Dem, OR)
 
Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> But I'm not at all convinced that any change in the law is needed for
> conventional upright bikes. You ought to have pedal reflectors if you ride
> on the road at night, whether or not the law says so. And there is no
> practical reason preventing you.
>

Yes, except that I think the law should be less specific : it should
requre something like 'a reflective surface that visibly changes at the
pedal rate', rather than a specific implementation. It does go some
of the way by requiring the reflectors to be readily visible rather
than a specific size (which would depend on the material used) but
'readily visible' is a bit open to interpretation. Well-drafted
laws don't go out of date when the technology changes.

Recumbents aren't the only way to obscure the pedal reflectors -
panniers will obstruct them for much of their travel too, and
so, I imagine, might deep heels (can you ride a bike in goth heels ?).

The problem is just that too many assumptions were made about the
implementation and the appearance of a bike whan all that was really
in mind was a moving tail light. This error is all too common in the
lighting regs, as is evident from the current fad for dazzlingly
bright car headlights which nevertheless conform to the power
consumption requirements.

-adrian
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> Parker International - I quoted the part number up-thread somewhere.

Interesting. I emailed them last year and the year before and they said
they could not get them once failed to reply once.

I'll try again.

deesidecycles managed to get me my last pair however despite all my
spending they went bust.

--chris
 
On 16 Jul, 23:33, "Adam Lea" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard pedals?
> Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either. As I
> understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with amber pedal
> reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it seems odd that
> is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually required by law.
>
> Adam

I've got shimano M424s (I think: cheap but reasonable SPD jobs with a
resin cage around them) and they don't have any reflectors or anywhere
to fit them. I thought I'd quite like to be legal and also that it
wouldn't hurt to add some so I did it by getting some sticky-backed
reflective tape off ebay for a couple of quid that I cut to fit the
rhombus-shaped inset bits on the pedal...Looks quite neat, if I say so
myself and has bugger-all weight, too...!
 
ric wrote:
>
> I've got shimano M424s (I think: cheap but reasonable SPD jobs with a
> resin cage around them) and they don't have any reflectors or anywhere
> to fit them. I thought I'd quite like to be legal and also that it
> wouldn't hurt to add some so I did it by getting some sticky-backed
> reflective tape off ebay for a couple of quid that I cut to fit the
> rhombus-shaped inset bits on the pedal...Looks quite neat, if I say so
> myself and has bugger-all weight, too...!
>

Alas unless they have the right kite mark you are still not strictly
legal at night.

--chris
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
> Parker International - I quoted the part number up-thread somewhere.
>

You forced me to do some ringing around. The Campagnolo importer tells
me that they don't have any and that Campagnolo have discontinued them
for 2008. Which I find most annoying.

I imagine they did not sell that many.

--chris
 
in message <[email protected]>, Chris Gerhard
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> Parker International - I quoted the part number up-thread somewhere.
>
> You forced me to do some ringing around. The Campagnolo importer tells
> me that they don't have any and that Campagnolo have discontinued them
> for 2008. Which I find most annoying.
>
> I imagine they did not sell that many.

That is bad news, since they were the /only/ maker of quality clipless road
pedals who made a reflector adapter.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Good grief, I can remember when England won the Ashes.
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>, Chris Gerhard
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
>> Simon Brooke wrote:
>>> Parker International - I quoted the part number up-thread somewhere.
>> You forced me to do some ringing around. The Campagnolo importer tells
>> me that they don't have any and that Campagnolo have discontinued them
>> for 2008. Which I find most annoying.
>>
>> I imagine they did not sell that many.
>
> That is bad news, since they were the /only/ maker of quality clipless road
> pedals who made a reflector adapter.
>

And that was my excuse^W reason for equipping all my bike with them.
That said as non legal pedals they work well for me. I just liked being
legal.

--chris
 
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:16:36 +0100, Chris Gerhard
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Simon Brooke wrote:

<snip>

>> That is bad news, since they were the /only/ maker of quality clipless road
>> pedals who made a reflector adapter.
>>
>
>And that was my excuse^W reason for equipping all my bike with them.
>That said as non legal pedals they work well for me. I just liked being
>legal.

I've been holding off comment in this thread so far, but I have tosay
I'm completely baffled by the attitudes I see displayed here. Clearly
the answer to my natural reaction question of "who cares if they're
legal?" is "quite a few folk" but you may perhaps be able to help me
understand why.

To get the context right, has anyone, ever, anywhere, been convicted
of the offence [1] of riding without reflector-equipped pedals? And
what would the penalty be if one were?

I do, of course, clearly accept the concerns of those folks who feel
they need to be more visible, and that said reflectors are a good way
of doing so, but that only seems to account for about 50% of the
replies in here.

[1] And I'm making the assumption that, as it's been stated here
enough, there is actually some such offence.
 
On 19 Jul, 19:38, Ace <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:16:36 +0100, Chris Gerhard
>[snip]
> To get the context right, has anyone, ever, anywhere, been convicted
> of the offence [1] of riding without reflector-equipped pedals? And
> what would the penalty be if one were?
>
Not as far as I know, in 23 working for CTC. However I do know that
cyclists in receipt of our legal assistance, who were hit by motorists
at night, have been unable to refute contributory negligence claims in
respect of minor infractions of the lighting regulations such as this
("... and this will be why my client didn't see him m'lud") receiving
reduced compensation as a result.

I don't know about you, but I find it really annoying that the law and
the cycle trade between them have given negligent motorists such an
easy way of tranferring the blame for their own carelessness onto the
unwitting cyclist. The least you'd expect is warnings on boxes of
reflectorless pedals that it's illegal to ride them on road at night.

It IS difficult to fit the full set of properly legal lighting onto a
bike, and most bike shops aren't much help. You may think the same can
be said of the CTC Shop. In the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby: I could
not possibly comment.
 
Ace wrote:
>
> I've been holding off comment in this thread so far, but I have tosay
> I'm completely baffled by the attitudes I see displayed here. Clearly
> the answer to my natural reaction question of "who cares if they're
> legal?" is "quite a few folk" but you may perhaps be able to help me
> understand why.
>

My primary reason that I wish to be legal is that I believe in the rule
of law. While I think in this case the law is an ass it is still the
law. If I choose to break this law then how can I complain when others
choose to break the law that they don't like?

My secondary reason is that I ride a lot at night and if some twunt
knocks me of I don't want to give them any way to weasel out of the
resulting court case. They already have plenty of ways to do that
without being able to add that the cyclist was not riding a legal bike.

Alas now that Campagnolo have discontinued the reflectors for profit
pedals I am reduced to just one at night time legal road bike and that
is only legal due to it's age. Although the old reflectors I have and
some araldite may be able to increase that to two bikes for a bit.

Now if the UCI required pedal reflectors in all races this would be
solved really quickly.

--chris
 
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:58:49 -0700, CJ <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 19 Jul, 19:38, Ace <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:16:36 +0100, Chris Gerhard
>>[snip]
>> To get the context right, has anyone, ever, anywhere, been convicted
>> of the offence [1] of riding without reflector-equipped pedals? And
>> what would the penalty be if one were?
>>
>Not as far as I know, in 23 working for CTC. However I do know that
>cyclists in receipt of our legal assistance, who were hit by motorists
>at night, have been unable to refute contributory negligence claims in
>respect of minor infractions of the lighting regulations such as this
>("... and this will be why my client didn't see him m'lud") receiving
>reduced compensation as a result.

OIC. Yes, that would not be a good thing.

>I don't know about you, but I find it really annoying that the law and
>the cycle trade between them have given negligent motorists such an
>easy way of tranferring the blame for their own carelessness onto the
>unwitting cyclist.

Yes, I'd be annoyed too.

>The least you'd expect is warnings on boxes of
>reflectorless pedals that it's illegal to ride them on road at night.

But that would apply to just about all clip-in pedals, wouldn't it?
Certainly none of mine could possibly have reflectors on them.

>It IS difficult to fit the full set of properly legal lighting onto a
>bike, and most bike shops aren't much help. You may think the same can
>be said of the CTC Shop. In the words of Sir Humphrey Appleby: I could
>not possibly comment.

Heh.
--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom
Ski Club of Great Britain http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
 
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:06:54 +0200, Ace <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:58:49 -0700, CJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >The least you'd expect is warnings on boxes of
> >reflectorless pedals that it's illegal to ride them on road at night.
>
> But that would apply to just about all clip-in pedals, wouldn't it?
> Certainly none of mine could possibly have reflectors on them.

My ATACs on my commuter have reflectors, and the mounting method would
work for almost any other double-sided clipless pedals. It would not
work for four-sided (eg eggbeaters). Single-sided pedals should be
able to accommodate reflectors trivially.

http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/temp/DSCN0419.JPG

But in all cases, if the manufacturer incorporated the option.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
In article <[email protected]>, Simon
Brooke
[email protected] says...

> The problem is for bikes such as recumbents, where, because of the
> architecture of the bike, the pedals cannot, as the law requires, be seen
> from behind. And I think the law ought to be changed /for/ /recumbents/,
> since it's foolish to ban a whole category of bikes from being used at
> night.
>
There's nothing to prevent the fitting of reflectors that stick out
beyond the pedals so they can be seen from behind.
 
in message <[email protected]>, Ian Smith
('[email protected]') wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:06:54 +0200, Ace <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:58:49 -0700, CJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >The least you'd expect is warnings on boxes of
>> >reflectorless pedals that it's illegal to ride them on road at night.
>>
>> But that would apply to just about all clip-in pedals, wouldn't it?
>> Certainly none of mine could possibly have reflectors on them.
>
> My ATACs on my commuter have reflectors, and the mounting method would
> work for almost any other double-sided clipless pedals.

The ATACs on my winter bike likewise. Also, as detailed in this thread,
Campagnolo ProFit pedals have optional attachable reflectors (although
someone upthread says that these will no longer be available after this
year).

> It would not
> work for four-sided (eg eggbeaters). Single-sided pedals should be
> able to accommodate reflectors trivially.
>
> http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/temp/DSCN0419.JPG
>
> But in all cases, if the manufacturer incorporated the option.

Not necessarily. It would be possible, surely, for a third party (perhaps
even the CTC?) to make a reflector to fit e.g. Look Keos, or some other
popular pedal system.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I can't work yanks out......
;; Why do they frown upon sex yet relish violence?
;; Deep Fried Lettuce
 
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:24:07 +0100, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Simon
> Brooke
> [email protected] says...
>
> > The problem is for bikes such as recumbents, where, because of the
> > architecture of the bike, the pedals cannot, as the law requires, be seen
> > from behind. And I think the law ought to be changed /for/ /recumbents/,
> > since it's foolish to ban a whole category of bikes from being used at
> > night.
> >
> There's nothing to prevent the fitting of reflectors that stick out
> beyond the pedals so they can be seen from behind.

Other than teh fact they'd also need to stick out past my seat, my
thighs and the panniers on the rack. They'd need to sick out about
300mm, I think.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
In article <[email protected]>, Ian Smith
[email protected] says...
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:24:07 +0100, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, Simon

> > There's nothing to prevent the fitting of reflectors that stick out
> > beyond the pedals so they can be seen from behind.
>
> Other than teh fact they'd also need to stick out past my seat, my
> thighs and the panniers on the rack. They'd need to sick out about
> 300mm, I think.
>
Perhaps I should have said "so that they face in the legally required
direction" rather than commenting on their visibility, but I do think
you're exaggerating.
 
On 20/07/2007 17:33, Rob Morley wrote:
> Ian Smith uk says...
>>Rob Morley wrote:
>>> There's nothing to prevent the fitting of reflectors that stick out
>>> beyond the pedals so they can be seen from behind.
>>
>>Other than teh fact they'd also need to stick out past my seat, my
>>thighs and the panniers on the rack. They'd need to sick out about
>>300mm, I think.
>
> Perhaps I should have said "so that they face in the legally required
> direction" rather than commenting on their visibility,

Simply facing in the legally required direction wouldn't be good enough,
because the lighting regs state that the reflectors must be positioned:
"Such that the reflector on the ... trailing edge of each pedal is
plainly visible to the rear"[1].

> but I do think
> you're exaggerating.

Having taken a ruler to my bike, I reckon they'd need to stick out about
200mm. Ian rides a trike, so would probably need his reflectors to
stick out further from the ends of the pedals.

Anyway, reflectors sticking out from the ends of the pedals wouldn't
actually be on the leading and trailing edges of the pedals, so still
wouldn't comply with the requirement for the pedals to be positioned:
"On the leading edge and the trailing edge of each pedal"[1].

[1]<http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_25.htm#nsch20>

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2
 
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 20/07/2007 17:33, Rob Morley wrote:
> > Ian Smith uk says...
> >>Rob Morley wrote:
> >>> There's nothing to prevent the fitting of reflectors that stick out
> >>> beyond the pedals so they can be seen from behind.
> >>
> >>Other than teh fact they'd also need to stick out past my seat, my
> >>thighs and the panniers on the rack. They'd need to sick out about
> >>300mm, I think.
>
> > but I do think you're exaggerating.
>
> Having taken a ruler to my bike, I reckon they'd need to stick out about
> 200mm. Ian rides a trike, so would probably need his reflectors to
> stick out further from the ends of the pedals.

My panniers are 230mm wide each when reasonably full (but not bursting
at the seams. The rack flares and is about 310mm at the level of the
widest part of the pannier, so across the panniers is 770mm. Across
the pedals is 310, so the reflectors would need to be on 230mm
extensions.

Luckily, mine's a narrow track Trice. If it weren't, it would be
greater distance across the wheels, so then you would need greater
extensions - I think standard track is 100mm wider, at about 860
across outer edges of the wheel. Then you'd need 280mm extensions.

In my opinion 280mm measured is a reasonable correlation with "about
300mm". Of course, if you want to be legal when turning the steering
as well as when going in a straight line, you'll need rather longer
extensions.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
Chris Gerhard wrote:

> Alas now that Campagnolo have discontinued the reflectors for profit
> pedals I am reduced to just one at night time legal road bike and that
> is only legal due to it's age. Although the old reflectors I have and
> some araldite may be able to increase that to two bikes for a bit.

If you are happy with Asian products Shimano offers reflectors for
almost all of their clipless pedals, e.g.
- PD-M520 with SM-PD22
- PD-A520 with SM-PD59
- PD-7800 with SM-PD58
- PD-6620 with SM-PD58
These won't be in stock in most bike shops, of course.

Günther
 
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