Please follow the rules of the road

[Even Steven]

My fellow cyclists:

I was very disappointed to witness a total disregard for the rules of the road (and NYS law) by a large group of cyclist participating in a New Years Day ride on RT 9W in New York. I was driving south on 9W in Stony Point when I approached a large group of cyclists (must have been at least 100) who were riding 4 abreast and taking up the entire southbound lane. The group was so large that there was no safe way for motorists to overtake the cyclists, so a long line of cars formed behind the group of cyclists. At no point did I see a single cyclist make any attempt to yield to motor vehicle traffic, despite the fact that there were several vehicles behind them that were averaging approximately 15 MPH because they were unable to pass.

As road cyclists, I would hope that you all know and understand that NYS law requires you to ride near the right curb or edge of the road, or on a usable right shoulder of the road, to avoid undue interference with other traffic. You should be riding in single file when being overtaken by vehicular traffic. And the law also requires that you never travel with more than two abreast in a single lane. If you’re not familiar with these rules, they can be found in Chapter 11 (Sharing The Road) of the NYS Driver’s Manual.

BTW, I’m also an avid cyclist, but I prefer to ride the trails rather than the roads. Although only 10% of my riding is on the roads, I know and understand what it is like to share a road like RT 9W with cars and trucks. Please ride responsibly and be safe out there.

And just in case anyone on this forum might have been in that large group of cyclists, I was the guy in the silver Audi who illegally passed all of you while driving in the center turning lane (in the town of Haverstraw), with my horn blaring the entire time. Yes, I also broke the law, but I was hoping that my horn would at least make some of you realize that you had a long line of angry and/or frustrated drivers behind you. I really hope I never see that type of behavior again because it makes cyclists look selfish and irresponsible.

 

[qdc15]

If you can't control your road rage, you shouldn't be driving. Get some counseling before you kill someone.

 

[sitzmark]

Understand your frustration, but the laws in most states aren't specific about large organized events. It is courteous (and wise) to be as accommodating as possible to traffic, but stringing out 100 riders single or double file can create a hazard as well when vehicles try to squeeze by where space really isn't available. Sometimes safer to "take the lane" and right-of-way as most states also allow.

Just curious ... if it was a funeral procession of 30 cars moving slowly would you have reacted the same?

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by qdc15 .

If you can't control your road rage, you shouldn't be driving. Get some counseling before you kill someone.

I don't have road rage. I was simply disappointed that a large group of cyclists would behave in such a poor manner. Cyclists don't own the road, do they?

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by sitzmark .

Understand your frustration, but the laws in most states aren't specific about large organized events. It is courteous (and wise) to be as accommodating as possible to traffic, but stringing out 100 riders single or double file can create a hazard as well when vehicles try to squeeze by where space really isn't available. Sometimes safer to "take the lane" and right-of-way as most states also allow.

Just curious ... if it was a funeral procession of 30 cars moving slowly would you have reacted the same?

The laws in NY are pretty straightforward. It is simply illegal to ride 4 abreast on the road. The cyclists could have very well rode single file on the shoulder of the road and taken the road in areas where the shoulder was too small.

My reaction was a lot better than some of the other drivers who really were angry after following the cyclists for a long distance. You would have had to be there to understand what I mean...

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by qdc15 .

If you can't control your road rage, you shouldn't be driving. Get some counseling before you kill someone.

I didn't have any road rage. I was just disappointed that a large group of cyclists would behave in that manner. Cyclists don't own the roads, do they?

 

[jhuskey]

The inconsiderate make it hard on the rest of us. It is also not smart the get cocky even if you have a large number of riders with. The car will always win in a head to head contest and you never know who you are dealing with.

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by jhuskey .

The inconsiderate make it hard on the rest of us. It is also not smart the get cocky even if you have a large number of riders with. The car will always win in a head to head contest and you never know who you are dealing with.

Exactly. There was really no good reason for the behavior of that particular group of cyclists. Like I said, stay safe out there. Personally, I don't ride much on the road these days because I'd rather ride the trails instead. But I still have to deal with cyclists when I'm driving.

 

[64Paramount]

I always hate to see something like that. Most of the time irritated drivers won't do much more than yell or honk their horn.....but, you never know....some driver could totally lose it and injure somebody.

Whether you're riding a bike, or driving a vehicle, or just walking, it's always best to be considerate of the other folks using the roads and not to create traffic problems.

Nothing good ever comes from a situation like that.

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by Even Steven .



I don't have road rage. I was simply disappointed that a large group of cyclists would behave in such a poor manner. Cyclists don't own the road, do they?

You joined this forum to vent your rage.

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by Even Steven .



The laws in NY are pretty straightforward. It is simply illegal to ride 4 abreast on the road. The cyclists could have very well rode single file on the shoulder of the road and taken the road in areas where the shoulder was too small.

My reaction was a lot better than some of the other drivers who really were angry after following the cyclists for a long distance. You would have had to be there to understand what I mean...

Riding no more than 2 abreast is the rule here as well. But if the cyclists were riding 2 abreast rather than 4, would that have mattered? You need to be fully in the other lane to pass cleanly, regardless of how many cyclists were side-by-side. Surely you wouldn't pass cyclists riding 2 up or single file on a narrow road with traffic in the oncoming lane, right? By making the group more compact on the road, riding 4 abreast could actually facilitate passing, couldn't it?

Agree it's smart to pull off the road and let traffic by whenever possible. That's easy when you're just with a few other riders, and most of us do it freely when necessary. But on our big century rides here, with hundreds of riders, it's just not practical to pull over to let cars pass.....slowing and stopping in the big group is a great way to trigger a crash. But the groups split up pretty quickly, so that the passing driver is usually dealing with just a few riders at a time.

So, if leaning on the horn as you passed was a lot better than some of the other drivers, what did they do? Passing in the center lane seems perfectly fine, but leaning on the horn as you pass isn't going to earn you any sympathy with any riders I know. You'd get flipped-off by more than a few of the riders as you went by with your expensive german horn blaring. Sorry, but with that illegal horn harassment you appear to cyclists to be just another a-hole in an Audi or BMW, indignant that you were slowed down by a group of mere cyclists.

 

[davereo]

Originally Posted by Even Steven .


Yes, I also broke the law, but I was hoping that my horn would at least make some of you realize that you had a long line of angry and/or frustrated drivers behind you. I really hope I never see that type of behavior again because it makes cyclists look selfish and irresponsible.

You put the life and safety of a hundred cyclist in jeopardy. For all you know that may have been a charity event raising money and awareness for a good cause. THEY MAY EVEN HAVE APPLIED FOR AND PAID FOR A SPECIAL PERMIT TO HOLD THEIR EVENT IN YOUR PRESTIGIOUS NEIGHBORHOOD. Myself I am glad you had a stressful day and felt compelled to share your misery with us. You deserve it you have the nerve to call yourself a cyclist.

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by qdc15 .


You joined this forum to vent your rage.

I did? That's funny because I don't see any evidence of rage being vented here.

And I thought I joined to bring up a useful discussion about cyclists and drivers sharing public roadways. How silly of me!

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by dhk2 .



Riding no more than 2 abreast is the rule here as well. But if the cyclists were riding 2 abreast rather than 4, would that have mattered? You need to be fully in the other lane to pass cleanly, regardless of how many cyclists were side-by-side. Surely you wouldn't pass cyclists riding 2 up or single file on a narrow road with traffic in the oncoming lane, right? By making the group more compact on the road, riding 4 abreast could actually facilitate passing, couldn't it?

Agree it's smart to pull off the road and let traffic by whenever possible. That's easy when you're just with a few other riders, and most of us do it freely when necessary. But on our big century rides here, with hundreds of riders, it's just not practical to pull over to let cars pass.....slowing and stopping in the big group is a great way to trigger a crash. But the groups split up pretty quickly, so that the passing driver is usually dealing with just a few riders at a time.

So, if leaning on the horn as you passed was a lot better than some of the other drivers, what did they do? Passing in the center lane seems perfectly fine, but leaning on the horn as you pass isn't going to earn you any sympathy with any riders I know. You'd get flipped-off by more than a few of the riders as you went by with your expensive german horn blaring. Sorry, but with that illegal horn harassment you appear to cyclists to be just another a-hole in an Audi or BMW, indignant that you were slowed down by a group of mere cyclists.

I

I watched some of the other drivers buzz the cyclists while continuing to accelerate well beyond the posted speed limit. In my opinion, some of those drivers were far too close to the cyclists. In fact, some of the cyclists reacted by swerving to right when the cars were too close. It was actually scary to watch and I'm surprised more of the cyclists didn't react.

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by davereo .




You put the life and safety of a hundred cyclist in jeopardy. For all you know that may have been a charity event raising money and awareness for a good cause. THEY MAY EVEN HAVE APPLIED FOR AND PAID FOR A SPECIAL PERMIT TO HOLD THEIR EVENT IN YOUR PRESTIGIOUS NEIGHBORHOOD. Myself I am glad you had a stressful day and felt compelled to share your misery with us. You deserve it you have the nerve to call yourself a cyclist.

Actually, I didn't put any of theirs lives at risk. I passed them at a reasonable speed that was well under the posted speed limit, but still fast enough to overtake them. I also allowed them a wide berth by using another lane entirely. And when there is a cycling event in the neighborhood with permits, there's also police presence and signs to notify drivers. That wasn't the case. This was simply an organized ride by a local bike club. And finally, I didn't have a stressful day at all. My post isn't about misery, it's about disappointment with other cyclists As an experienced cyclist myself, I'd never behave like that when riding on public roadways. More than 20 years of being a roadie and I've never done anything as stupid as that particular group.

 

[alienator]

So, the riders weren't following what you allege is the law in New York, and you drove like an ass. I'm not sure which is worse.

The biggest pet peeve of drivers around here does seem to be riders not observing the rules of the road, but I suspect that's the pet peeve of most drivers. It's upsetting when I'm driving and see that, but I don't revert to some brainless state and pass and behave like some prepubescent child and lay on the horn. My advice to you would be to seek therapy and also obey the laws when driving, as well as when riding.

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by alienator .

So, the riders weren't following what you allege is the law in New York, and you drove like an ass. I'm not sure which is worse.

The biggest pet peeve of drivers around here does seem to be riders not observing the rules of the road, but I suspect that's the pet peeve of most drivers. It's upsetting when I'm driving and see that, but I don't revert to some brainless state and pass and behave like some prepubescent child and lay on the horn. My advice to you would be to seek therapy and also obey the laws when driving, as well as when riding.

The law in NY is easy to understand....and the cyclists were definitely not following the law. That much isn't even debatable. As for the way I was driving, well, that was a direct result of the cyclists who failed to follow the law. If they were riding in accordance of the law, I wouldn't have been passing them in a turning lane. See how simple that is?

It's easy for you to be an armchair quarterback, but the fact of the matter is most people would have passed the cyclists after being stuck behind such a large pack for several miles on end. My advice to you (and any other road cyclist) is to obey the rules of the road and yield to faster moving traffic. It just might save your life some day.

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by Even Steven .



Actually, I didn't put any of theirs lives at risk. I passed them at a reasonable speed that was well under the posted speed limit, but still fast enough to overtake them. I also allowed them a wide berth by using another lane entirely. And when there is a cycling event in the neighborhood with permits, there's also police presence and signs to notify drivers. That wasn't the case. This was simply an organized ride by a local bike club. And finally, I didn't have a stressful day at all. My post isn't about misery, it's about disappointment with other cyclists As an experienced cyclist myself, I'd never behave like that when riding on public roadways. More than 20 years of being a roadie and I've never done anything as stupid as that particular group.

The thing enraged drivers like to do here is pass the group at the first opportunity at full throttle, making as much noise and accelerating as fast as possible. I've been passed at high speeds by ******-off drivers, leaning on the horn and accelerating to maybe 80-90 mph. If the drivers are trying to "teach cyclists a lesson", that kind of aggressive and dangerous driving certainly doesn't put me in a receptive learning mode.

So, what would you recommend the group do then? Are you saying they picked the wrong road for their ride, or the wrong time or day? Or should they have split into smaller, easier to pass bunches? The fact that they were riding more than 2-abreast really didn't limit your ability to pass, since you said you used the other lane (meaning you waited for a proper gap in oncoming traffic). In usual groups here, someone yells "car back" and we generally try to move over single file, mainly just to indicate to the driver that we see him and don't "own the road". There are cases though were that's not the safe thing to do, since it encourages drivers to pass close despite oncoming traffic.

Drivers here are getting more used to cyclists, but we're still not too common. In most cases, it just takes a little planning on the part of the driver to go around small packs of riders without slowing down. If traffic is heavy, we avoid the road entirely unless there is a good shoulder (rare thing here in AL). If the cyclists are riding single file and staying "as far to the right as practicable" (from state code), aggressive drivers will sometimes pass when traffic is oncoming, forcing the oncoming car to slow or move part way off the road, onto dirt shoulder. It's often locals, going just down the road to their house that are the worst offenders out in the country; they act like they live on a private road.

So, in your 20+ years of road riding, what would you have done differently? If the road had no minimum speed limit, are you saying the cyclists were acting intentionally to impede traffic by riding too slowly or blocking your ability to pass? Are you arguing that organized group rides without permits are illegal, or that they were just dumb for being on a busy road? There are lots of roads here we avoid for group rides. There are a few county roads I'll ride at midday, midweek times but stay off of entirely on the weekends.

I'm asking a lot of questions since I understand that pissing off motorists isn't in our best interest as cyclists.

 

[alienator]

Originally Posted by Even Steven .


The law in NY is easy to understand....and the cyclists were definitely not following the law. That much isn't even debatable. As for the way I was driving, well, that was a direct result of the cyclists who failed to follow the law. If they were riding in accordance of the law, I wouldn't have been passing them in a turning lane. See how simple that is?

It's easy for you to be an armchair quarterback, but the fact of the matter is most people would have passed the cyclists after being stuck behind such a large pack for several miles on end. My advice to you (and any other road cyclist) is to obey the rules of the road and yield to faster moving traffic. It just might save your life some day.

Oh, so it's their fault you were an ass? Maybe you should get to therapy more quickly since apparently it doesn't take much at all to provoke you when you're behind the wheel. You could have overtaken them like a grown-up in control of his/her emotions, but instead you responded like a child. It's people like you that are the problem behind the wheels of cars, people that respond angrily without thought. The cyclists may have been wrong, but that hasn't been proven. You were definitely wrong, and no one is to blame for that but you. You didn't respond the way you did because of the cyclists. You responded the way you did for the same reason that everyone else that succumbs to road rage does.

 

[Even Steven]

Originally Posted by dhk2 .


The thing enraged drivers like to do here is pass the group at the first opportunity at full throttle, making as much noise and accelerating as fast as possible. I've been passed at high speeds by ******-off drivers, leaning on the horn and accelerating to maybe 80-90 mph. If the drivers are trying to "teach cyclists a lesson", that kind of aggressive and dangerous driving certainly doesn't put me in a receptive learning mode.

I've seen drivers behave like that too and it's unacceptable and unsafe behavior. I've experienced it while cycling and while driving. I guess some people just have a really short fuse.

So, what would you recommend the group do then? Are you saying they picked the wrong road for their ride, or the wrong time or day? Or should they have split into smaller, easier to pass bunches?

The road was fine...it's actually a common bike route. They didn't need to be in a tightly packed group of more than 100+ riders. They could have broken into smaller groups. They could have ridden single file to allow faster moving traffic to pass safely. They certainly didn't need to clog up the entire roadway, causing a long line of traffic behind them.

The fact that they were riding more than 2-abreast really didn't limit your ability to pass, since you said you used the other lane (meaning you waited for a proper gap in oncoming traffic).

Actually, it completely limited my ability to pass. It was a dangerous situation because the majority of that road is a simple two-lane road with a double yellow line. Passing such a large group of cyclists means that you'd have to have enough room to continuing passing them for nearly a quarter mile before moving back over. If you were in the process of passing them and had to move back over because of an oncoming vehicle in the other lane, you risk the safety of the cyclists who were fairly tightly packed together in the group. I chose to wait until there was a center lane to pass. That was a better option, but still not safe at all because the center lane is shared by vehicles traveling in both directions and is intended for turning left into shopping centers.


In usual groups here, someone yells "car back" and we generally try to move over single file, mainly just to indicate to the driver that we see him and don't "own the road". There are cases though were that's not the safe thing to do, since it encourages drivers to pass close despite oncoming traffic.

Yup, that's common around here too. This particular group made no attempts at all to move over or allow anyone to pass. However, it should have been obvious that they were putting their own safety at risk when some of the more annoyed drivers passed them in an aggressive manner, meaning far too close and far too fast. If I were riding in that group, that would have been a definitely signal to me that I wasn't in a safe riding situation.

Drivers here are getting more used to cyclists, but we're still not too common. In most cases, it just takes a little planning on the part of the driver to go around small packs of riders without slowing down. If traffic is heavy, we avoid the road entirely unless there is a good shoulder (rare thing here in AL). If the cyclists are riding single file and staying "as far to the right as practicable" (from state code), aggressive drivers will sometimes pass when traffic is oncoming, forcing the oncoming car to slow or move part way off the road, onto dirt shoulder. It's often locals, going just down the road to their house that are the worst offenders out in the country; they act like they live on a private road.

So, in your 20+ years of road riding, what would you have done differently? If the road had no minimum speed limit, are you saying the cyclists were acting intentionally to impede traffic by riding too slowly or blocking your ability to pass?

I don't know their intentions. I doubt they were intentionally out there just to block traffic. But the fact remains that they were breaking several laws and had no regards for anyone else but themselves. That's bad behavior at the very least and does nothing but help foster animosity between motorists and cyclists. The ironic thing is that the vast majority of cyclists are also motorists, so they should know better.

Are you arguing that organized group rides without permits are illegal, or that they were just dumb for being on a busy road? There are lots of roads here we avoid for group rides. There are a few county roads I'll ride at midday, midweek times but stay off of entirely on the weekends.

No, as far as I know it's not illegal to organize a group ride without a permit. If there is such a law, I'm not aware of it. And they weren't being "dumb" for choosing to ride on a busy road. They should have just followed the rules of the road instead of acting like they owned the road and impeding faster moving traffic.

I'm asking a lot of questions since I understand that pissing off motorists isn't in our best interest as cyclists.

Completely understood. Do you drive a car? If so, then most of this should be relatively simply to understand from a motorists' point of view as well as a cyclists' point of view.