Originally Posted by alienator .
Oh, so it's their fault you were an ass? Maybe you should get to therapy more quickly since apparently it doesn't take much at all to provoke you when you're behind the wheel. You could have overtaken them like a grown-up in control of his/her emotions, but instead you responded like a child. It's people like you that are the problem behind the wheels of cars, people that respond angrily without thought. The cyclists may have been wrong, but that hasn't been proven. You were definitely wrong, and no one is to blame for that but you. You didn't respond the way you did because of the cyclists. You responded the way you did for the same reason that everyone else that succumbs to road rage does.
The cyclists were absolutely wrong and it has been proven. Just look up the NYS laws and you'll see exactly how and why they were wrong. And for the record, I wasn't provoked....I wasn't angry...I was just disappointed that a large group of cyclists would have such a total disregard for the law and for others using public roadways.
[COLOR= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The rest of your banter is just a waste of time, so I'll decline to comment on it. Be safe out there![/COLOR]
Please follow the rules of the road
- Thread starter Even Steven
- Start date
I did? That's funny because I don't see anyone venting any rage. I joined the forum to discuss the issue and raise awareness.
Now if you have rage issues, I can only say "enhance your calm, John Spartan."
I did? That's funny because I don't see anyone venting any rage here, especially when it comes to myself.
But if you have rage issues, I can only say: "enhance your calm, John Spartan."
You've proven nothing, other than you react like any other jerk on the road. Want proof? Here's your own statement:
See? You can't even take responsibility for your own actions. I'll leave the interpretation of NY driving laws to an attorney, since it's not clear that your interpretation is the correct one.
As always, situations dictate action. Following published laws is usually the best course of action. However, even the best laws can't always be all encompassing. That said, adjusting to the conditions does not guarantee the action will stand up in a court of law. Breaking laws "quid pro quo' because someone else does is generally not a defense that stands up in court. Intelligent people can work around unforeseen/unusual situations and make things work. Unreasonable people can't. That's why there are courts.
The OP amended the law as he saw fit. Maybe the cyclists did the same. He's right ... had to be there to interpret the situation. I've been in similar situations as a driver and as a cyclist. I give cyclists wide leeway knowing what it's like to navigate traffic and road situations safely.
On a narrow road with no shoulders, a double line of 100 riders is far shorter and easier to pass than a string of 100 riders in single file. Going single file encourages drivers to snake through between oncoming traffic and cyclists already hugging the edge of the pavement - dangerous situation. It usually isn't possible to pass a double paceline without moving into the oncoming lane anyway. A quad line shortens up the length of the peloton again by 50%, which can help trailing vehicles find more openings in oncoming traffic. Or maybe not.... depends.
In general drivers feel entitled to travel the roads as they wish. There are laws which give slow moving traffic the right of way - funeral processions, horse drawn vehicles, etc - and drivers legally have to follow behind until it is safe to pass. Those same rights are extended to cyclists as well.
The law is black and white and requires no interpretation. When the law specifically states that it is illegal to ride more than two abreast and these cyclists were riding up to four abreast, that doesn't require the services of an attorney. How's that for proof? lol
As for my actions, I absolutely take responsibility for them. I made the choice to make an illegal pass. That was my choice. However, I wouldn't have had to make that choice if the cyclists weren't riding in an illegal manner. Hopefully that shouldn't be too hard for you to understand.
The penalty of riding four abreast may only be a fine for a moving violation. Why pay a lawyer when the fine is minimal. On the other hand 100 counts of driving to endanger may entail some prison time so best to consult your team of attorney's before admitting your crimes on a public forum.
I don't really want to call your reading comprehension skills into question, but the fact of the matter is that I didn't admit to "driving to endanger" at any point in time. If anything, I said that I safely passed the cyclists. That said, your concerns are unfounded and irrelevant. Thanks for the concern though...
I hope the replies have raised your awareness. "My fellow cyclists" is how you began your rant. 'We fellow cyclists' are highly aware of the existence of selfish dangerous motorists. Thanks anyway for the "heads up".
That fact that you don't see a raging motorist spewing hate on cyclists is not funny at all, but not surprising either. We've all seen the Audi driver blaring his horn. You defend yourself by saying most drivers would have done the same. This reasoning is why most drivers are so dangerous. It's called mob psychology. "everyone is doing it (speeding, running red lights, passing in an unsafe manner, or...), so it must be OK." Don't follow the bad examples, set a good one and some may follow you. Probably not, but it's worth a try. Even if no one follows your example, you will feel better about yourself, if you obey the traffic laws and respect other road users. I know it sounds crazy, but try it. You might find it calming.
I am guessing that this is the event:
http://www.crca.net/2011/12/details-on-the-2012-new-years-day-ride/
Looks like fun to me and from the videos, the riders were fairly cognizant of road rules.
Laws are open to interpretation. I just reviewed Minnesota law and found a lot of "as reasonable", "practicable" and "possible" wording thrown in. It's legal to be more than 2 wide when passing for example. In such large groups, its natural to "get wider" in some sections because the passers get slowed and cannot get back into line safely. Again, the law states that to be as far right as it is safe; it is not safe to cut off other riders. I doubt that anyone would receive a citation if they were riding in a safe manner in an established event.
Anyway others bad behavior is not an excuse for your own. Laws in MN do not permit you to follow within 500 feet of another vehicle outside of residence or business districts. Rules also prevent you from coming within 3 feet of a bicyclist.
If you want a courteous response from bicyclists, be courteous yourself. If possible, most would be happy to make room. I have been on plenty of large organized rides, drivers usually need to do little more than a few quick toots on the horn and a quick flash of the lights make the leftmost riders riders aware of their presence and intent to pass. We then let them go by and maybe we even share a wave.
Of course I am in the Midwest, perhaps things are different out east.
http://www.crca.net/2011/12/details-on-the-2012-new-years-day-ride/
Looks like fun to me and from the videos, the riders were fairly cognizant of road rules.
Laws are open to interpretation. I just reviewed Minnesota law and found a lot of "as reasonable", "practicable" and "possible" wording thrown in. It's legal to be more than 2 wide when passing for example. In such large groups, its natural to "get wider" in some sections because the passers get slowed and cannot get back into line safely. Again, the law states that to be as far right as it is safe; it is not safe to cut off other riders. I doubt that anyone would receive a citation if they were riding in a safe manner in an established event.
Anyway others bad behavior is not an excuse for your own. Laws in MN do not permit you to follow within 500 feet of another vehicle outside of residence or business districts. Rules also prevent you from coming within 3 feet of a bicyclist.
If you want a courteous response from bicyclists, be courteous yourself. If possible, most would be happy to make room. I have been on plenty of large organized rides, drivers usually need to do little more than a few quick toots on the horn and a quick flash of the lights make the leftmost riders riders aware of their presence and intent to pass. We then let them go by and maybe we even share a wave.
Of course I am in the Midwest, perhaps things are different out east.
Are you suggesting the group of cyclists were dangerous or that your reaction to them was dangerous? I'm having trouble seeing how the cyclist were endangering you. I'm glad you survived with your misconceptions intact. Post about bicycling while you're here or join a car forum and whine there.
That's not the group or the ride. Those guys were going from NYC north to Bear Mountain, starting at 7:30 am. The group I'm talking about was headed south on 9W at approximately 9:30 am, so there's no way that they could have been the same club.
I agree with the rest of your points. However, this group was not willing to let anyone get by. That's where the problem begins.
The entire situation was dangerous for everyone on the road that day. Do you think only cyclists are in danger on the road because they're on bicycles? Don't you realize that drivers in cars are also in danger if/when they attempt a pass in an oncoming lane for a distance of 1/4 mile? I don't know how much experience you have behind the wheel of a car, but the fact of the matter is that passing another motor vehicle on a two-lane road can be risky in itself. Not only do you have to allow room enough to pass the car you're overtaking, but you also have to ensure that there's plenty of space between the nearest oncoming vehicle. And things can happen quickly, especially when it is difficult to judge the speed of an oncoming car. Now imagine trying to pass a car that is 1,320 feet long and getting back into your lane. That's what it was like to pass a 1/4 long group of cyclists. Like I said, the situation itself was dangerous and common sense (not to mention the law) should tell you that the cyclists shouldn't have been riding like that.
And by the way, this entire thread has been about cycling, in case you haven't realized that. And of course cycling on the road means that cars are involved as well, so this discussion is in fact pertinent to this forum. Posting on a car forum has nothing to do with cyclists who were exhibiting poor behavior and breaking the law. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that this simple fact escapes you.
You're too one-sided to see the point, so I'll say this: I usually obey traffic laws. I haven't had so much as a parking ticket in more than 12 years now. However, the group of cyclists weren't obeying the traffic laws that day, so anything you say can be just as easily directed at them. Except for the fact that you're too ignorant to understand that things tend to work both ways.
And BTW....was the text stupid because it was red? LOL
See, that right there is your problem. You'd fit right in with the groupthink mindset in that group. It's not okay and no respectable road cyclists would think it was okay to block the road and ride 15 MPH in a 40 MPH zone. And just in case you're not familiar with NYS law, the minimum legal speed limit is 15 mph under the posted maximum speed limit on secondary highways (like RT. 9W). Last time I checked, 40 - 15 is 25. And 25 is 10 more than 15.
But forget the numbers and lets look closer at speed laws in NY. Article 1 of the NYS statute related to speed says that "...one shall not travel at such a slow speed to impede the normal movement of traffic.." And the normal flow of traffic is 40 MPH on that road. In fact, it's probably closer to 45 MPH, as most people seem to drive a few mph over the posted speed limit. The long line of cars that formed behind the cyclists is undeniable PROOF that the cyclists were in fact impeding the normal flow of traffic.
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