Please help me identify these Campy/Mavic Components!

[Jim Rogers]

I got these items as part of a big trade with someone else, and I would like to know more about them
before I decide what, if anything, I will do with them.

I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so I assume it's an 8 speed hub!).
It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a silver cover
(that turns around the center to open/close). It has no markings other than Campagnolo Brev. Int.
on the grease cover. The front hub has the Campy "winged" trademark symbol. The skewers are the
"rough" type, knurled around the edges. With the skewers, the front weighs about 250g, the rear
about 500g.

I also have a front derailleur. It is clamp-on and only has the winged symbol stamped in it.

Unlike today, these parts don't say "Record," "Chorus," et.c on them, so I don't know what era or
level of quality they are.

Can anyone tell me the level (Record, Chorus, etc.) and approximate age of these items? Also, I have
two rims by Mavic. They are 32 hole tubulars and have the diamond-shaped Mavic logo and "G.E.L. 280"
on one and "G.E.L. 330" on the other. There are no other markings (such as SUP, etc.) The weights
are about 280 and 330 grams, which I assume correspond to the markings. They are dark gray in color.

Any one have any idea as to the age/level of quality of these rims? Unlike the hubs above, these
rims appear to compare favorably to new ones in the area of weight. They are of different weight, I
assume the heavier one is for use in the back, but I don't know if they are a matched set.

Do any of the new features of Mavic rims (SUP, ceramic, whatever) make these rims dated, or would
they still make a good wheel?

Thanks for the help,

Jim Rogers

 

[DeanPatterson]

Jim,
They are all fine...build the wheels, ride the wheels ( if you are using an eight speed, that is fine, or convert to that!) break the wheels, rebuild the wheels, ride the wheels, break the wheels...just ride the stuff until it dies...even if just training on it.
Best Regards,

 

[Dookie]

my circa-'94 8sp chorus hubs and skewers are exactly as you describe.

$0.02

dookie

"Jim Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got these items as part of a big trade with someone else, and I would like to know more about
> them before I decide what, if anything, I will do with them.
>
> I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so I assume it's an 8 speed
> hub!). It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a
> silver cover (that turns around the center to open/close). It has no markings other than
> Campagnolo Brev. Int. on the grease cover. The front hub has the Campy "winged" trademark symbol.
> The skewers are the "rough" type, knurled around the edges. With the skewers, the front weighs
> about 250g, the rear about 500g.
>
> I also have a front derailleur. It is clamp-on and only has the winged symbol stamped in it.
>
> Unlike today, these parts don't say "Record," "Chorus," et.c on them, so I don't know what era or
> level of quality they are.
>
> Can anyone tell me the level (Record, Chorus, etc.) and approximate age of these items? Also, I
> have two rims by Mavic. They are 32 hole tubulars and have the diamond-shaped Mavic logo and
> "G.E.L. 280" on one and "G.E.L. 330" on the other. There are no other markings (such as SUP, etc.)
> The weights are about 280 and 330 grams, which I assume correspond to the markings. They are dark
> gray in color.
>
> Any one have any idea as to the age/level of quality of these rims? Unlike the hubs above, these
> rims appear to compare favorably to new ones in the area of weight. They are of different weight,
> I assume the heavier one is for use in the back, but I don't know if they are a matched set.
>
> Do any of the new features of Mavic rims (SUP, ceramic, whatever) make these rims dated, or would
> they still make a good wheel?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Jim Rogers

 

[Tom Kunich]

Record hubs have the grease port. The front derailleurs are impossible to identify without putting
the years side by side.

"Jim Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got these items as part of a big trade with someone else, and I would like to know more about
> them before I decide what, if
anything,
> I will do with them.
>
> I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so
I
> assume it's an 8 speed hub!). It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a
> grease port with a silver cover (that turns around the center to open/close). It has no
> markings other
than
> Campagnolo Brev. Int. on the grease cover. The front hub has the
Campy
> "winged" trademark symbol. The skewers are the "rough" type, knurled around the edges. With the
> skewers, the front weighs about 250g, the rear about 500g.
>
> I also have a front derailleur. It is clamp-on and only has the
winged
> symbol stamped in it.
>
> Unlike today, these parts don't say "Record," "Chorus," et.c on
them,
> so I don't know what era or level of quality they are.
>
> Can anyone tell me the level (Record, Chorus, etc.) and approximate age of these items? Also, I
> have two rims by Mavic. They are 32 hole tubulars and have the diamond-shaped Mavic logo and
> "G.E.L. 280" on one and "G.E.L. 330" on the other. There are no other markings (such as SUP, etc.)
> The weights are about 280 and 330 grams, which I
assume
> correspond to the markings. They are dark gray in color.
>
> Any one have any idea as to the age/level of quality of these rims? Unlike the hubs above, these
> rims appear to compare favorably to new ones in the area of weight. They are of different weight,
> I assume
the
> heavier one is for use in the back, but I don't know if they are a matched set.
>
> Do any of the new features of Mavic rims (SUP, ceramic, whatever)
make
> these rims dated, or would they still make a good wheel?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Jim Rogers

 

[Drew Eckhardt]

In article <[email protected]>, Jim Rogers
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so I assume it's an 8 speed hub!).
> It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a silver cover
> (that turns around the center to open/close).

Record and Chorus 8-speed hubs both had grease ports. The difference is in the skewers - Record has
a wire loop on the nut end.
--
<a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a> The Congress shall assemble at least once in
every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law
appoint a different Day.

 

[Tom Kunich]

I think that once in awhile Campi has more Record hubs made than Chorus and if you order a Chorus
group it includes the Record hubs. That happened to me in around '96.

"Drew Eckhardt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Rogers
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I have a set of Campy hubs, freehub, 8-speed cassette will fit (so
I
> >assume it's an 8 speed hub!). It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a
> >grease port with a silver cover (that turns around the center to open/close).
>
> Record and Chorus 8-speed hubs both had grease ports. The
difference
> is in the skewers - Record has a wire loop on the nut end.
> --
> <a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a> The Congress shall assemble at least once
> in every Year, and such
Meeting
> shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law
appoint a
> different Day.

 

[Nick.Marshall]

I don't suppose you're in the UK? If you are, do you want to sell that GEL280 rim?

Nick M

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

Irene-<< It appears to be 130 mm by my quick measuring. The rear hub has a grease port with a silver
cover (that turns around the center to open/close). It has no markings other than Campagnolo Brev.
Int. on the grease cover >><BR><BR> << The front hub has the Campy "winged" trademark symbol.
>><BR><BR>

1993/4/5 Chorus is what I would guess.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(1994)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Jim Rogers]

Thanks for the input, guys. It supports my hunch that they are probably mid-90's Chorus hubs (there
is no wire loop on the nut end of the skewer). Still don't know about the rims-- I do know they were
bought in Europe at least 5 years ago, though.

The reason I ask about these parts is not because I question their usability. I'm sure I could build
the wheels up and they would ride just fine for a long time. The reason I ask is because I'm about
to begin a restoration/customization project. After years of being a student, my career is now to
the point where I can do this project exactly the way I want. Although I've had a lot of fun in the
past cobbling together bikes/components, this time I really do not have to compromise.

The frame is an '89 Bridgestone RB-1. I happen to really like this frame because it is a bit
sportier than the Grant P. spec'd '90-'94's, but still has long chainstays and wheelbase which
gives it somewhat of a 'BOBish' feel. After very careful computer and hand measurement, I have
found that mine (a 63 cm) has almost the exact geometry as a Ritchey Road Logic, IMO, one of the
best road bikes ever made. So, I consider my BStone frame to be a lugged Road Logic, and I think
that's pretty cool.

I'm going to send it out to be stripped, blasted, treated inside, aligned if necessary, have the
head and bb faced, and whatever else is necessary to make it literally good as new. I think it will
cost in the $500 dollar range, which is a bit expensive. But when you consider that I will be
getting slightly historical frame that is exactly the color I want and good as new for less than a
new Road Logic frame, I think it's not such a bad deal.

Now, the question is components. The only downside to the RB-1 is that the frame/fork weight is
nearly a full pound more than the Road Logic, and it is in fact one of the heavier premium frames I
have ever seen. However, modern groups are so lightweight today, if I bought a complete new group I
have calculated that the bike will weigh less than the Road Logic did about 8 years ago. I.e., the
frame may weigh a pound more, but today's Chorus group, saddle, stem, wheels, etc. weighs about a
pound and a half less than the Ultegra group, saddle, stem, wheels, etc. back then. I believe that I
could get the bike down to about 20 lbs.-- not bad for a 63 cm, 6.5 lb lugged frame. I would love to
have a bike like that.

However, I'm not a total weight weenie and I do appreciate the Grant Petersen, BOB-types who use
certain components or types of components because they are good even if a bit heavy. I have the
hubs/rims I described, an 8 speed Athena ergopower/derailleur combination, and a brand new Record 8
speed cassette. That combination should work very well together, but it is kind of a mixture of
levels and the weights probably mean that the 20 lb. dream would be out the window. However, the
weight thing is OK if there is some other reason these components are better than what I can get
today. So my question is, are those hubs/rims (and handles/derailleur) worth the extra weight?

If, for example, if the consensus response to my original post was:

'Yeah, they're perfectly good components, but nothing special about them,'

then I'm going to get a new Chorus group for the Bstone and move all the older mix of 8 speed stuff
over to my wife's bike. (She doesn't care in the least what's on her bike as long as it works.)

However, if the consensus response to my original post is something like:

'Dear God, man! Those hubs are the famous Campy 8 speed hubs! Those were known to be the best Campy
ever made, and every change after that resulted in lower weight, but much worse function! They may
weigh a little more, but they are precious classics and worth every extra gram! Not only that, but
those 8 speed handles are the bomb, even if they were Athena! All that old stuff may be a bit
heavier, but it is much, much better than the lightweight junk you get today',

then I will definitely use those parts on my project bike and be happy regardless of the final
weight. I will then just get a Veloce ergo/derailleur combo for my wife's bike.

So, there you go. Before I start my project, I need to evaluate my current inventory of older parts.
Any help this list could give me in this regard would be greatly appreciated (and thanks again to
those that already responded).

BTW, I do not care about the number of gears. Anything between 7 and 9 cogs is fine with me, so that
aspect will play no role in my decision.

Jim

 

[Jim Rogers]

> I don't suppose you're in the UK? If you are, do you want to sell that GEL280 rim?
>
> Nick M

Sorry, I'm not in the U.K. Also, I can't sell them until I know what they are. Care to reveal
anything about them? I know they were bought in Europe at least 5 years ago.

Be honest, now! Don't tell me they're junk just so I won't want them and sell them to you at a
good price.

Seriously, the weights of the rims are good, so I'll probably keep them. Is it a standard practice
to use rims of two different weights on the same bike? How come you just want the 280?

Jim

 

[Jjpsych]

Jim, Mavic had 4 mainstay Tubular Rims (box section, Not aero) in the mid to late 80's. (and up to
the early 90's). A very clever move by Mavic was that all these had the same size/width and rim
profile. So you could switch between training wheels to racing wheels with no need to adjust or tune
the bike. Wich incidently also matched the MA40 clincher rim for those who could not afford to train
on tubulars. Here they are: There were the SSC (Special Service de Course)that were in a word
bomb-proof. I think they weighed about 430 grams per wheel and tested on the cobbles of the
Paris-Roubaix. Next on the list was their "general purpose" rim the GP4 I think that was about
390-400 grams per. Great for training and road racing on marginal roads.

Then you get into the rims you have. The Gl 330 is a 330 gram rim, and was marketed as a racing rim.
I had a set of GL 330's that I used for Crit racing way back when. Nice, light and if built
correctly, very stiff.

The GEL 280, is a 280 gram rim that was marketed for racing on "good roads" or for time trialing.
very light..almost too light for general purpose.

Now, as to the age of your rims... That depends on the Mavic Logo. If the Logo is Red with Gold
lettering, then they are pre-1990. Mavic changed to a Yellow with Blue lettering in about 1990..or
maybe 1989. I am not sure when they stopped making these rims. But I would guess about 1996 or 1997.
(but that is a guess)

Some people would mix and match rim weights depending on ride style, intended use, and rider weight.
They conventiona wisdom of the time was to put a heavier/stiffer wheel in the back and a lighter,
more responsive wheel in the front. Hope this helps, Jay

 

[Jim Rogers]

Jay-- Thanks for the very informative post. I have a few more questions for you, if you don't mind:

> Then you get into the rims you have. The Gl 330 is a 330 gram rim, and was marketed as a racing
> rim. I had a set of GL 330's that I used for Crit racing way back when. Nice, light and if built
> correctly, very stiff.
>
> The GEL 280, is a 280 gram rim that was marketed for racing on "good roads" or for time trialing.
> very light..almost too light for general purpose.

Do you think these rims (especially the front) would be too light for me at about 200 lbs.? What
happens when a rim is too light? If a wheel is not strong enough it collapses. If the rim is too
light does it just get dented when you run over stuff?

> Now, as to the age of your rims... That depends on the Mavic Logo. If the Logo is Red with Gold
> lettering, then they are pre-1990. Mavic changed to a Yellow with Blue lettering in about 1990..or
> maybe 1989. I am not sure when they stopped making these rims. But I would guess about 1996 or
> 1997. (but that is a guess)

Mine are red with gold lettering, so they must be pre-1990, which makes sense (see below)

> Some people would mix and match rim weights depending on ride style, intended use, and rider
> weight. They conventiona wisdom of the time was to put a heavier/stiffer wheel in the back and a
> lighter, more responsive wheel in the front.

They were bought in Europe by a guy I know that raced there from the late '80's into the mid '90's.
He also gave me a set of Vittoria tubulars called Pave. They were bought in Europe and I've never
seen any tire like them available in the U.S. I have seen Vittoria "Speacial Pave's," but those look
very different. Mine are pretty big and cushy looking. The guy that gave them to me said they were
the best tire going and that everyone in Belgium who was racing on their own dime (i.e., didn't have
a team to pay for their equipment) used them for the rough road racing in that area. He claimed they
would be the best tire I ever used (and since he was giving them to me he had no reason to
exaggerate).

I had planned on using those tires on the rims you identified for me, but now that I know that the
rims are very light, I wonder if it is the right thing to do. Would you recommend putting those big
(and I assume heavy) tires on those ultralight rims, or would that be stupid since the rim is
designed for light weight smooth road wheels? Would it be better to put the lightest weight tires on
those rims to get the lightest wheel possible and then use it only on smooth roads? Or would the big
tires give some protection to the lightweight rims yielding a very light rough road wheel?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Jjpsych]

> Do you think these rims (especially the front) would be too light for me at about 200 lbs.? What
> happens when a rim is too light? If a wheel is not strong enough it collapses. If the rim is too
> light does it just get dented when you run over stuff?

Well, that would be pretty close for the GEL 280, but you would have to consult a wheel guru with
some history building up these rims. Perhaps Mr. Brandt would could offer his valuable
assistance/guidance.

> Mine are red with gold lettering, so they must be pre-1990, which makes sense (see below)
>
>
>
> They were bought in Europe by a guy I know that raced there from the late '80's into the mid
> '90's. He also gave me a set of Vittoria tubulars called Pave. They were bought in Europe and I've
> never seen any tire like them available in the U.S. I have seen Vittoria "Speacial Pave's," but
> those look very different. Mine are pretty big and cushy looking.

Yes, I am familar with the tire you are talking about. Similar to Mavic, Vittoria had a line of
tubulars that shared similar profiles, but had specific uses. The ever-popular Corsa CX that you see
available had two cousins at that time (three if you count the Corsa CX seta, anyone remember that
sweet little tire). The Corsa CG (same tread pattern as the CX, only heavier treading) was
frequently used as a rear tire and a CX was used as a front. Of course, lot's of people also used
CX's on both. The Special Pave (I have also seen it called the Pave CG or the Pave) is basically a
heavier Corsa CG. It's desiged as its name implies, for terrible roads/conditions (Pave=cobbles). To
me, this tire is a little impratical for most American conditions. It's heavy, durable and
overbuilt. It's a safe bet that most spring classics in the mid to late 80's were won on Pave's
glued to Mavic SSC rims. In today's terms, it's most similar to the green/black "All-weather" model
you see in the catalogs.

> I had planned on using those tires on the rims you identified for me, but now that I know that the
> rims are very light, I wonder if it is the right thing to do. Would you recommend putting those
> big (and I assume heavy) tires on those ultralight rims, or would that be stupid since the rim is
> designed for light weight smooth road wheels? Would it be better to put the lightest weight tires
> on those rims to get the lightest wheel possible and then use it only on smooth roads? Or would
> the big tires give some protection to the lightweight rims yielding a very light rough road wheel?

No, I would not mount the Pave's to these rims. Way too much tire for what you need. Unless you are
planning a tour through the Arenburg forrest.

I am biased toward Vittoria, and think they are great tubulars. Unless you are planning to race
these wheels, you might consider the Nuovo-Pro (about $35 each) as a great all around tire (that's
what I use, and I am about 220 pounds) But the Continental Sprinter is also an excellent tire.

I would suggest that, unless you have a great sentimental attachment to these tires, you sell them.
Use the money to get some tubulars more suited to your needs. Also, if you have never mounted a
tubular before, I would recommend you check out the Park Tool website for a great set of mounting
instructions. (One thing that helps is to mount the tire to a rim with no glue, and inflate it to
about 120-140 PSI (depending on the tires Max rating) and let it stretch for a couple of days before
you attempt to glue it. You may want to find someone local to help you with the mounting process. I
am certain that most LBS's don't glue tubulars due to the risk of a roll-off (reference Beloki's
crash at the TDF) Hope this helps, and again, this is just my $0.02,

Jay

 

[Jim Rogers]

Jay-- thanks again for your replies. This is really helping me out. I have a few more
questions below:

> Yes, I am familar with the tire you are talking about. Similar to Mavic, Vittoria had a line of
> tubulars that shared similar profiles, but had specific uses. The ever-popular Corsa CX that you
> see available had two cousins at that time (three if you count the Corsa CX seta, anyone remember
> that sweet little tire). The Corsa CG (same tread pattern as the CX, only heavier treading) was
> frequently used as a rear tire and a CX was used as a front. Of course, lot's of people also used
> CX's on both. The Special Pave (I have also seen it called the Pave CG or the Pave) is basically a
> heavier Corsa CG. It's desiged as its name implies, for terrible roads/conditions (Pave=cobbles).
> To me, this tire is a little impratical for most American conditions. It's heavy, durable and
> overbuilt. It's a safe bet that most spring classics in the mid to late 80's were won on Pave's
> glued to Mavic SSC rims. In today's terms, it's most similar to the green/black "All-weather"
> model you see in the catalogs.

After seeing your response yesterday, I went home to look at my tires again. They actually are
labeled "Pave CG," which you say are the same as the Special Pave. You also say they are the same
as the green/black all-weathers. However, according to the Vittoria Website, the All Weathers are
smaller and racier than the Special Pave's. I own the green/black All Weathers and I think my
Pave's are bigger than those (although when I checked them side-by-side yesterday, they're closer
than I thought).

I'm thinking now that I have an older version of the Special Pave.

> No, I would not mount the Pave's to these rims. Way too much tire for what you need. Unless you
> are planning a tour through the Arenburg forrest.

What I was originally going for was this: I have the green All-Weathers on a set of Spinergy's. I
like tubular Spinergy's and I think the All Weather is a good tire because it is the same weight as
all the other Vittoria racing tires (270g) but is 1mm bigger and has a little more tread. It's good
for the "racing with my friends as we commute to work" thing that I do almost every day, rain or
shine (and occasionally snow!). I've raced and commuted a long ways on that wheel/tire combo.

But lately I've been considering building up a retro-type bike. Following Rivendell-like philosophy,
I wanted nice, big cushy tires and relaxed frame geometry that would yield a mega-comfortable ride
would also be competent if raced a little. The Pave's seem like they would be perfect because they
are bigger and lower pressure (and tubular to boot-- nothing more retro than that!).

> I would suggest that, unless you have a great sentimental attachment to these tires, you sell
> them. Use the money to get some tubulars more suited to your needs.

Actually, I'm more inclined now to sell the rims. I want two sets of tubulars on two diffenent sets
of wheels; one racy and light (Spinergy's + All Weather), one soft and comfortable (? + Pave's).
However, just because it's soft and comfortable, I would still like light weight, if possible.
That's why I was wondering if the Pave's might be a good match for the mavic rims-- soft and cushy
ride (because of the tires), but not too much weight penalty (because the ultralight rims offset the
heavier tires). In addition, the bigger size of the Pave's might provide some protection for the
delicate Mavics.

> Also, if you have never mounted a tubular before, I would recommend you check out the Park Tool
> website for a great set of mounting instructions. (One thing that helps is to mount the tire to a
> rim with no glue, and inflate it to about 120-140 PSI (depending on the tires Max rating) and let
> it stretch for a couple of days before you attempt to glue it. You may want to find someone local
> to help you with the mounting process. I am certain that most LBS's don't glue tubulars due to the
> risk of a roll-off (reference Beloki's crash at the TDF)

I always just follow the standard instructions (found almost anywhere) for gluing tubulars, and I've
never had a problem. Considering my weight and the speeds I routinely corner at, I ride them hard
enough to be pretty sure they're glued on right.

However, the only thing that scares me about them is if I get a flat. Unbelievably, since I started
riding tubulars about 7 years ago, I've never had a flat! I always care a spare tire (one that had
been previously glued) and a little bit of glue, but I've never had to use them. I carry the glue
because my tires have been glued on for so many years I'm afraid there will be no tackiness when I
remove one after a flat. Thus, I figured the quick applications of a SMALL amount of glue might
provide enough tackiness and dry quickly enough to get me home if I ride very carefully.
Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I've never had to test this plan.

Oh well, I'm getting off topic, but I'm kind of a wheel/tire nut. Sounds like you are as well. Let
me know what rims you think would be a good match to the Pave's for that cushy yet light/fast
old-style wheel.

Thanks again for all the info-- I really appreciate it!

Jim

 

[Jjpsych]

Jim, Ah, yes, you have the Pave CG, older than the "Special Pave" and the heavier version of the
Corsa CG. Regarding the comparason to the All weather tires, I meant that they are the closest thing
to the Special PAve and Pave CG that you can find in USA.

After seeing your response yesterday, I went home to look at my tires
> again. They actually are labeled "Pave CG," which you say are the same as the Special Pave. You
> also say they are the same as the green/black all-weathers. I'm thinking now that I have an older
> version of the Special Pave.

weight penalty (because the
> ultralight rims offset the heavier tires). In addition, the bigger size of the Pave's might
> provide some protection for the delicate Mavics.

Yes, you are right, Light rims with heavy tires is counterproductive.

> However, the only thing that scares me about them is if I get a flat. Unbelievably, since I
> started riding tubulars about 7 years ago, I've never had a flat! I always care a spare tire (one
> that had been previously glued) and a little bit of glue, but I've never had to use them. I carry
> the glue because my tires have been glued on for so many years I'm afraid there will be no
> tackiness when I remove one after a flat. Thus, I figured the quick applications of a SMALL amount
> of glue might provide enough tackiness and dry quickly enough to get me home if I ride very
> carefully. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I've never had to test this plan.

My advise is take the glue out of the bag, you wont need it. Having flatted a few tubies, the best
thing is to do like you are doing and carry a spare that has been glued before. Just peel the old
one off, put the spare on, and inflate to usual pressures. One trick I have heard is to ride the
brakes for a few minutes to re-soften the glue, and then stay off the brakes to let it cool down.
Don't know if that works or not, but (knock wood) I have not rolled a spare.

> Oh well, I'm getting off topic, but I'm kind of a wheel/tire nut. Sounds like you are as well. Let
> me know what rims you think would be a good match to the Pave's for that cushy yet light/fast
> old-style wheel.

Oh, If you were going to do that, I would recommend getting a pair of NOS GP4's or SSC's (i see
them on Ebay a lot). I would also think that the Reflex tubular rims available these days would be
fine. But, if you are going for a vintage look, get a pair of the older style rims. If you want
cushy, I would not get them tied and soldered. (That was a joke....like anybody remembers tied and
soldered wheels

Best of luck, Jay

 

[Jim Rogers]

Jay-- hope your not sick of talking about this, but I'm really enjoying this conversation and have a
few more questions, if you don't mind:

> Ah, yes, you have the Pave CG, older than the "Special Pave" and the heavier version of the Corsa
> CG. Regarding the comparason to the All weather tires, I meant that they are the closest thing to
> the Special PAve and Pave CG that you can find in USA.

> Yes, you are right, Light rims with heavy tires is counterproductive.

I see what you mean about it being counterproductive, but I was actually trying to positive. Is it
possible that, instead of being a counterproductive combination (not the lightest/fastest, but also
not the toughest/strongest), it might be a good _compromise_ (striking a balance between weight and
toughness)? Usually when one wants a compromise between weight and durability, one would get both a
wheel and tire that were each a compromise. However, sometimes you can reach the same balance by
selecting one item from one extreme (in this case the rim from the extremely light end of the
spectrum) and the other item from the other extreme (i.e., the tire from the heavy end of the
spectrum). On average, it might reach the same compromise between weight and strength.

However, I understand that what I'm saying is akin to asking "if I put one foot in boiling water and
the other in ice water, will I be comfortable on average?" Sometimes that works and sometimes it
doesn't. I'm wondering if it might work with the PAVE CG and the GEL rims.

I promise this will be the last I bug you about this topic, but now I have some questions on spare
tubulars.

> My advise is take the glue out of the bag, you wont need it. Having flatted a few tubies, the best
> thing is to do like you are doing and carry a spare that has been glued before. Just peel the old
> one off, put the spare on, and inflate to usual pressures. One trick I have heard is to ride the
> brakes for a few minutes to re-soften the glue, and then stay off the brakes to let it cool down.
> Don't know if that works or not, but (knock wood) I have not rolled a spare.

When you just peel off the old and put on the spare, are you assuming some tackiness from the old
glue on the rim and on the spare? I've been told that's why you can safely change to a spare tire on
the road and ride back home. However, my All-Weathers have not been off the Spinergy's in seven
years, and the previously-glued spare has not been on a rim for the same seven years. Should I
occasionally remove my tires and re-glue them to make sure the spare will stay on? Or would a
totally un-glued tire stay on the rim well enough to carefully ride home?

> Oh, If you were going to do that, I would recommend getting a pair of NOS GP4's or SSC's (i see
> them on Ebay a lot). I would also think that the Reflex tubular rims available these days would be
> fine. But, if you are going for a vintage look, get a pair of the older style rims. If you want
> cushy, I would not get them tied and soldered. (That was a joke....like anybody remembers tied and
> soldered wheels

Actually, I have a set of tied/soldered wheels! Remember, I'm a wheel nut so I tend to pick these
things up when I see them. They are old Wolber rims with old Record hubs. I think they would fit the
bill, but after I got them (at a swap meet) I realized they were 28 spoke wheels and was afraid to
use them because I about 200 lbs. Ended up trading them to a friend who weighs 120 lbs., but he's
not using them so I could always get them back!

At the time, I didn't think it was a big loss to trade them away because Bandt's book said that
tying and soldering makes no difference whatsoever in the wheels. Still don't, really, because I
think for retro look/feel I need 36 spokes anyway.

Jim

 

[John Forrest To]

[email protected] (Jim Rogers) wrote in message [about tubulars]
> I think the All Weather is a good tire because it is the same weight as all the other Vittoria
> racing tires (270g) but is 1mm bigger and has a little more tread.

Is it really true that the All Weather is the same weight as the other Vittoria tires (CX etc). I
don't have a good scale or any CXs, but it seems like the All Weather is heavier.

I've got some clinchers in each version and will try to compare them.

JT