Polar CS600 Power - First on the Block...

[JohnMcP]

Update time. It's now a couple of months since Polar UK replaced my CS600 power unit for the third time with a very confident prediction that this one would work. So far, they were right. It's been out and about in heavy rain in Northern England and it's still putting out good data.

Three emails to Polar asking what they did by way of a fix have all got no response, which is a shame...personally I don't feel they're in any position to quit while they're ahead.

The battery case they supplied is the same yellow colour as the original, but seemed to have a beefier connection (bigger blob of solder!) at the bottom end.

If anything interesting happens, I'll let you know. Meanwhile, I'm actually able to focus on training with power. Downside is, if my FTP doesn't improve I can't blame Polar

McP

 

[JohnMcP]

No; Polar haven't written back.

But I do have one latest observation: Twice now (20 - 25 riding hours apart) my unit has transmitted zeros for power and cadence. I know it's transmitting zeros rather than failing to transmit as the monitor does not give me the 'beep beep...check power' message.

On both occasions, new batteries have done the trick. However, the battery status (visible when you download from the unit via IR into the Polar Protrainer software) has shown OK (green) immediately before each failure and the LEDs on the power sensor have also lit up despite the batteries apparently needing a change.

Anybody else getting this? I'd hate Polar to think all was quiet on the Western Front!

McP

 

[Andre.T]

I got my units back from Polar.
The 3 years old power sensor with the cadence problem was replaced by a complete new one.
At the 1 year old unit with the small chain ring problems the speed sensor, chain speed sensor and top cover of the power sensor were replaced.
Both units had the same failure description: broken cable.
They also made a service on the S710 and replaced the battery.
The price for all was very moderate, I only had to pay for one new power sensor.
So thanks to Tom again to convince me to send the units to Polar
First tests with the new power sensor were looking very good.
(Fat line Polar, thin line PT Pro SL)
Regards
Andre

Last week, after a phone call with the German Polar Service, I sent the pictures and failure desciption posted here also to Polar.
They also suggested to mount the chain sensor more to the back that it doesn´t conflict with the "front derailer".
They wanted to send me some rubber-spacer for it.
At the weekend I raised the unit up again (with my spacers) and mounted it more to the rear wheel.
(Photos attached)
After this modification, changing the battery and after measuring the chain weigh of cause I tested the unit again.
After the modification the unit was not working on both chain rings.
I will send the unit to Polar for investigation now.

Also the second Polar PM. On this unit the cadence LED is blinking but the values are not displayed by the watch.
Speed is displayed, therefore it can not be a problem of the data line I guess.
I will keep you informed...

 

[Ergoman]

Update time.

My family now owns two Polar CS600s, and they are both performing flawlessly.

I bought the second CS600 from a guy who claimed the power module just wouldn't work. He'd fiddled with it for a week, gave up and sold it to me for cheap. I installed it according to the book and the advice given on this forum and it's worked perfectly for the last month. As far as accuracy goes, I've compared both Polars to each other, to a Kurt Kinetic, to an Ergomo, and to the calibration curve on rollers. Power readings seem very accurate in all usable gear combinations. More importantly, the readings are very consistent, something that's hard to get with the Ergomo unless very frequent offset checks are done.

All in all, I'd have to say that the CS600 is by far the best bang for the buck in power meters, particularly since they can be gotten new on eBay for less than $500.

 

[jbvcoaching]

Update time.

My family now owns two Polar CS600s, and they are both performing flawlessly.

I bought the second CS600 from a guy who claimed the power module just wouldn't work. He'd fiddled with it for a week, gave up and sold it to me for cheap. I installed it according to the book and the advice given on this forum and it's worked perfectly for the last month. As far as accuracy goes, I've compared both Polars to each other, to a Kurt Kinetic, to an Ergomo, and to the calibration curve on rollers. Power readings seem very accurate in all usable gear combinations. More importantly, the readings are very consistent, something that's hard to get with the Ergomo unless very frequent offset checks are done.

All in all, I'd have to say that the CS600 is by far the best bang for the buck in power meters, particularly since they can be gotten new on eBay for less than $500.

Does this mean you're going to change your handle?

 

[vetboy]

Thanks for the update ergoman. I wonder if you can shed some light for me. My CS 600 correlates very well with my KK in the small chainring, but in the large ring it over-estimates by a long shot (as much as 50-60 watts). The power paddle is pretty level, almost centred between rear axle and bb (just slightly back of that point) and the chain is never more than 23mm from the paddle in the large-large combo.

I haven't tested it on the road yet to know if the same will occur off the trainer -too much snow.

Joe

 

[Tom Anhalt]

Thanks for the update ergoman. I wonder if you can shed some light for me. My CS 600 correlates very well with my KK in the small chainring, but in the large ring it over-estimates by a long shot (as much as 50-60 watts). The power paddle is pretty level, almost centred between rear axle and bb (just slightly back of that point) and the chain is never more than 23mm from the paddle in the large-large combo.

I haven't tested it on the road yet to know if the same will occur off the trainer -too much snow.

Joe

That's just classic "polar on the trainer" behavior. What's most likely happening is that there's not enough random vibe input into (like you get on the road) the chain to get it resonating at a high enough amplitude at it's natural frequency. The signal processing will then "lock on" to something different like the chain speed signal (i.e. pins passing the sensor) and there'll be erroneous readings.

"Level-ness" of the module doesn't really matter much for the power reading...it just makes it less likely for the chain to rub in the small-small combos. With the distance to the top of the module you posted, you shouldn't see the same power variations outside.

 

[vetboy]

That's just classic "polar on the trainer" behavior. What's most likely happening is that there's not enough random vibe input into (like you get on the road) the chain to get it resonating at a high enough amplitude at it's natural frequency. The signal processing will then "lock on" to something different like the chain speed signal (i.e. pins passing the sensor) and there'll be erroneous readings.

"Level-ness" of the module doesn't really matter much for the power reading...it just makes it less likely for the chain to rub in the small-small combos. With the distance to the top of the module you posted, you shouldn't see the same power variations outside.

That's what I thought. I was hoping that since Ergoman got his working on his KK in all gear combos that he had some pearls that I had missed. To be honest, I'm not optimistic that random minor adjustments to the paddle will have any effect for me. Obviously the paddle is picking up the chain vibrations that it is presented and I don't think chain distance is an issues since the problem is actually more pronounce as the chain gets closer to the paddle (ie smaller rear cogs) in the large ring.

Oh well - no harm in "tricking" myself into an extra 50-60 watts.
Joe

 

[Tom Anhalt]

...problem is actually more pronounce as the chain gets closer to the paddle (ie smaller rear cogs) in the large ring.

Which actually makes sense with what I speculated above. There's not enough vertical chain vibration so the inductive sensor sees a bigger signal from just the pins passing the sensor. This will be MORE of a problem as the chain gets closer.

If you want to eliminate it, rig up some sort of random vibration input into your frame while you're on the trainer

 

[RHR38]

Free rollers produce enough good wibes for chain? (yesterday high speed spinning training>wheel speed 50-52 mph and unit seemed work alrighty)

 

[shoots]

could it be the magnet causing extra vibration???
i lost my original magnet and the magnet i'm using will attract the chain to it in the 3 lowest gears...could this cause a innaccurate reading by pulling the chain towards it in all gears?????


shoots

 

[bverdon]

Well...hopefully this will be my final update on this post!

I sent the power paddle back to Polar and got it back around Xmas time. Finally put it back on the first of the year and I think they fixed it!! I was told that there was a loose lead in the unit, that the resoldered it and tested it. So far, so good! I believe it is fixed...I would have seen a dropout or two by now.

Anyone else send the unit in with good results?

 

[J-V]

Well...hopefully this will be my final update on this post!

I sent the power paddle back to Polar and got it back around Xmas time. Finally put it back on the first of the year and I think they fixed it!! I was told that there was a loose lead in the unit, that the resoldered it and tested it. So far, so good! I believe it is fixed...I would have seen a dropout or two by now.

Anyone else send the unit in with good results?

My replacement unit has worked fine for me for months now. Thankfully!

 

[eugkimj]

Wanted to keep this accesible.

 

[iPAQsRock]

So I jumped in and bought the CS600 with power even with the issues noted.

It worked great for an hour then cut out with the check power batter message. I tried the soldier on the battery holder that seemed to work, but it failed again after about 1 1/2 of riding. I have checked the battery and I have 3 volts from the "+" connector that plugs into the power/cadnece sensor.

I noticed one time I was riding it did not give me the check battery beep and the power unit needed to be synced up again.

Now the computer will not read the power/cadence at all. I get the red and green lights from the sensor, and have tried several times to train the computer with no luck. I get the message that it has completed the training but does not show up on the computer. Any ideas?

 

[eugkimj]

I bought a CS600 after Christmas from Performance to replace my Garmin 305. I just recently installed it on my Cannondale Supersix (I posted elsewhere). Issues with my bike consisted mostly of placement of the chain sensor. With the BB30 integrated cranks, there are no cups, so the crank arms are almost flush with the carbon bottom bracket. Positioning the sensor without having the crank arm touch required the sensor to be well forward of center, almost under the front derailleur and tilted toward the wheel for extra clearance. Set like this, the chain wasn't even over the sensor in the 53/12-14 gearing.

I fixed this by getting the Radio Shack Rare Earth Magnets which are tiny. I used contact cement to glue one inside the crank arm on the pedal spindle. By doing so, I moved the sensor backward and could spin it less toward the wheel (still not parallel to the ground).

I've had 2 rides with the Polar - haven't had any issues, seems to work flawlessly. No dropouts yet. My problem is unfamiliarity with the functions, as I have been monitoring only power, cadence and speed. Need to spend some time looking over the manual.

 

[Digital P]

After replacing the magnet it seems to work all right. Didn't do a lot of testing but so far it's OK. Longest ride was for 3 hours and the CS6000 power output sensor didn't fail a moment. So it seems to me that the trick is in a good (not too strong) magnet.

After a ride I disconnect the battery from the sensor to reconnect it only when I want to go riding again. Maybe this helps as well?

I keep you posted on my experiences as the weather gets better and I'll be using this unit more often.

 

[max51]

No; Polar haven't written back.

But I do have one latest observation: Twice now (20 - 25 riding hours apart) my unit has transmitted zeros for power and cadence. I know it's transmitting zeros rather than failing to transmit as the monitor does not give me the 'beep beep...check power' message.

On both occasions, new batteries have done the trick. However, the battery status (visible when you download from the unit via IR into the Polar Protrainer software) has shown OK (green) immediately before each failure and the LEDs on the power sensor have also lit up despite the batteries apparently needing a change.

Anybody else getting this? I'd hate Polar to think all was quiet on the Western Front!

McP

Hi I'm a newbie concerning PMs. I'm owning a CS600 since the 1st of this year. Because of the bad weather I have done about, like above, 20-25 hours with it working perfectly from the beginning. The last 2 turns though, after 1,5 - 2 hours the display showed zeros for cad. and power. Straight after the 1st failure I changed batteries which helped the next ride but only for the same amount of time (1,5 - 2 h). The first time this happened I thought it's because of the cold temperature ( 5° C) but today it happened to be 20° when it failed again. When it drops out after about 10 - 15 min. it showes cad. and power maybe for 1 or 2 min and then it's zero for the rest of the ride.
Sorry for my English I hope somebody can help with this annoyance.

max51

 

[J-V]

Hi I'm a newbie concerning PMs. I'm owning a CS600 since the 1st of this year. Because of the bad weather I have done about, like above, 20-25 hours with it working perfectly from the beginning. The last 2 turns though, after 1,5 - 2 hours the display showed zeros for cad. and power. Straight after the 1st failure I changed batteries which helped the next ride but only for the same amount of time (1,5 - 2 h). The first time this happened I thought it's because of the cold temperature ( 5° C) but today it happened to be 20° when it failed again. When it drops out after about 10 - 15 min. it showes cad. and power maybe for 1 or 2 min and then it's zero for the rest of the ride.
Sorry for my English I hope somebody can help with this annoyance.

max51

Your problem (cadence/power dropouts) is exactly what this entire thread is about. If you read the thread, you may find your answers.

 

[max51]

Your problem (cadence/power dropouts) is exactly what this entire thread is about. If you read the thread, you may find your answers.

Thanx J/V,

if I get it right, then it should be a weak connection of the battery holder of the powerpaddle.
Does anybody have pictures where the problem sits and how to get it fixed?
This would be very helpful.

max51