Polar CS600 Power - First on the Block...

[JohnMcP]

Txs for the reply

I don't think the cadence sensor is the problem - at this point I am highly suspect of the chain sensor unit; I think I probably got a bum unit...

It's worth just checking the position of the chainspeed sensor.

A couple of years back Polar posted a video of a mechanic installing the power unit (for the s720...but the chainspeed sensor is the same).

He put the bike in the most extreme useable big ring x big cog combination, to pull the rear derailleur forward. He then rotated the chainspeed sensor as far as it would go (anti-clockwise) without touching the chain. This has the effect of bringing the sensor and the chain closer together in many gear combos.

There's nowhere in the manuals that it tells you to do this, but it's worth trying, before you send your unit back for replacement.

McP

 

[J-V]

Forget the lights (they're mostly useful for cadence, and turn off after several minutes of use, after which they don't light until the unit has been unused for awhile).

Are you getting power data shown when you pedal the bike? If so, it is working correctly. I honestly don't recall there being three separate lights, I only recall two (orange-ish and green). So far, the chain speed sensor has been the least troublesome part of the system that I'm aware of.

If you are getting data, it's working (regardless of the lights). Whether or not your particular setup is giving you valid data is a different issue entirely, and the video someone referred to above is NOT a good example of how to set up your unit for accurate data.

-J\V

Quick question - I recently picked up the CS600 w/Power W.I.N.D. Installation wasn't as bad as I had feared - but boy, could Polar have possibly made the Power unit red/green lLED any harder to see? I was only able to pick it up after turning all the lights off

Anyway - I'm not quite sure I have everything setup right, but everything seems right. My problem is similar to iPAQsRock - I get one quick red light when plugging in the battery pack. I get a green signal when the cadence magnet passes by the cadence notch. However, I do NOT see any red LED that apparently I'm supposed to see when the chain passes the chain sensor. The power training function completes fine, but the cadence training function does not - i get 'sensor not found' and 'try again?'. At first I thought the cadence magnet was the problem, but I get the green light perfectly as the magnet passes. Already made sure all settings etc. were completed in the CS600.

I'm stumped - any suggestions?

 

[JohnMcP]

the video someone referred to above is NOT a good example of how to set up your unit for accurate data.

-J\V

More than happy to believe this...but can you tell us why? Is it because the distance between the sensor and chain changes dependent on gear choice?

McP

 

[J-V]

More than happy to believe this...but can you tell us why? Is it because the distance between the sensor and chain changes dependent on gear choice?

McP

No, that distance will always change. The setup shown is poor mainly because in the small/small, there is still 'extra' distance from the sensor to the chain, distance that could be used on the 'other end'. In order to minimize errors in the large chainring, it needs to be set up so that in the small/small (or small/small-1) the chain is very nearly rubbing while under tension. 'Very nearly' being less than one millimeter. This gives the most latitude on the other end of things (large/large), thus making it more likely that those gear combinations won't give erroneous readings due to the chain being too far away from the sensor.

 

[JohnMcP]

No, that distance will always change. The setup shown is poor mainly because in the small/small, there is still 'extra' distance from the sensor to the chain, distance that could be used on the 'other end'. In order to minimize errors in the large chainring, it needs to be set up so that in the small/small (or small/small-1) the chain is very nearly rubbing while under tension. 'Very nearly' being less than one millimeter. This gives the most latitude on the other end of things (large/large), thus making it more likely that those gear combinations won't give erroneous readings due to the chain being too far away from the sensor.

I think we could be talking about two different sensors. What you describe sound like the main 'paddle' - the chain tension sensor. I was trying to describe the position of the chainspeed sensor attached to the derailleur.

 

[J-V]

I think we could be talking about two different sensors. What you describe sound like the main 'paddle' - the chain tension sensor. I was trying to describe the position of the chainspeed sensor attached to the derailleur.

I guess I wasn't directly referring to the chain speed sensor in my comment concerning the video. My distance comments were in relation to the sensor paddle.

FWIW, I've tried the chain speed sensor several ways, and settled on the 'rearmost' position (just above the metal of the cage), but keeping it where the chain is always in contact with the pulley. Not sure if it matters or not, but I doubt there will be errors in chain speed with distance.

 

[surista]

Forget the lights (they're mostly useful for cadence, and turn off after several minutes of use, after which they don't light until the unit has been unused for awhile).

Are you getting power data shown when you pedal the bike? If so, it is working correctly. I honestly don't recall there being three separate lights, I only recall two (orange-ish and green). So far, the chain speed sensor has been the least troublesome part of the system that I'm aware of.

If you are getting data, it's working (regardless of the lights). Whether or not your particular setup is giving you valid data is a different issue entirely, and the video someone referred to above is NOT a good example of how to set up your unit for accurate data.

-J\V

Problem Solved!
I was of course aware of the lights going off after a few minutes. There were only two lights - red(ish) and green. I was only getting one initial red blink the first time the cadence magnet passed the cadence sensor, then a green LED every time the magnet passed. My understanding was that for the first minute or so, normally you'd get a green (cadence) and red (chain) alternating. Since I wasn't getting the red, I assumed the chain sensor was faulty.

I was not getting any power/cadence readings at all. I was getting speed readings, however so I was pretty happy to rule out any possible problems with the computer. It was a bit odd I wasn't getting any cadence reading - the chain sensor shouldn't matter, right? But anyway, I contacted my vendor, and two days later I got a replacement package. I swapped out the power unit (paddle) - no change. I then swapped out the chain sensor - and bingo, everything worked perfectly.

I didn't check out the new chain sensor with the old power unit paddle, so I guess I can't rule out problems with the original paddle, but it does seem like the issue was with the chain sensor. Positioning hasn't been much of a problem - I've had to work to find a position of the chain or power sensor that _doesn't_ get any readings (obviously not saying all the readings are accurate).

I found the Polar video very helpful as a reference guide - certainly better than the text-heavy instruction manual. The installation wasn't near as difficult as I had feared. I suspect it may depend on the particular bike the unit is being installed on, but I found the installation relatively quick and easy. It's reasonably accurate, it's light, and it's the cheapest power optoin out there. And the software is great. Overall, I'm very very happy with it.

 

[Meek One]

Question (sorry didn't read all 21 pages): Talked to my brother about the Polar and asked him what he likes and dislikes (he's had 2 ergomos, an i-bike, and used my powertap extensively) and his only big dislike is that it doesn't give him accurate sprint numbers. Not that they are off, but off BIG like 40% measuring just over a 1000 when he knows he is laying down 1600-1700-1800 or if lucky a 1900. Do others have this enormous discrepancy with their CS?

On another note I think I may try the Polar for a while after reading a Bicyling article about the 'efficiency' feature. I know I am not nearly as efficient as my brother and think it may help me figure out how to be more efficient. He didn't believe me when I read the article over the phone to him about the numbers they produced, because he swore his numbers were significantly higher...so he checked and found most of his riding was around 27 then he went out for a ride and tried to max the number and was able to ride in the low 30s. This is something I think I would enjoy trying to max on since I bet I'd get a 15 or so. We concluded that his spin (and the power production) has to be extremely fluid for such a number and can probably be accounted for in the crazy rpms he can hit and sustain on his track bike. I, jokingly, told him to contact Polar to see what the greatest number they have seen was...maybe get some sponsorship..

 

[wiredued]

Does the Polar CS600 power meter work on free motion rollers without any problems?

 

[RHR38]

Does the Polar CS600 power meter work on free motion rollers without any problems?

Yes it works just fine. Also on trainer with mechanical (magnetic) brake.

>Meek One

In what situation your bro is supposed to get 1600-1900 W. Standing start of Kilo, flying road sprint. Is he bulky build or lightweight?

 

[Meek One]

Yes it works just fine. Also on trainer with mechanical (magnetic) brake.

>Meek One

In what situation your bro is supposed to get 1600-1900 W. Standing start of Kilo, flying road sprint. Is he bulky build or lightweight?

Both. He is about 180-185 (82-84KG), so he is neither big nor small.

 

[manos]

Hello

Someone knows if it is possible to find spare parts for Polar Cs600

at a online shop?

I need the whole back cover.

Thank you

 

[grahamspringett]

On another note I think I may try the Polar for a while after reading a Bicyling article about the 'efficiency' feature. I know I am not nearly as efficient as my brother and think it may help me figure out how to be more efficient.

What's 'efficiency' when it's at home? How does it help you train? How do you improve it?

I'm both intrigued and cynical - it sounds like a gimmick. Nobody I've heard or read about uses efficiency as a yardstick. Aero position, threshold power, that's what most pursue.

 

[Meek One]

What's 'efficiency' when it's at home? How does it help you train? How do you improve it?

I'm both intrigued and cynical - it sounds like a gimmick. Nobody I've heard or read about uses efficiency as a yardstick. Aero position, threshold power, that's what most pursue.

Sure both of us use power in our workouts. What I desire and what he has is this extra 'efficiency' that I don't. Best way to explain it is this:

When I ride say at threshold I basically end up pushing down. Period.

When he rides at threshold he pushes down too, but it seems he has the option (better than most of us) to be able to utilize 'while putting down threshold power' of using other leg muscles in a complete revolution e.g. push down, pull through the bottom, pull up and over the top very seemlessly. My guess is it is from his fixed gear work. Now people will tell you that the best riders just push down better which is true, but if you can also put down virtually identical power (vs yourself) utilizing the full circle as well as pushing I think it is valuable, especially if you want to give your quads an ever so slight break from the hard pushing. Make any sense?

I think basically what the Polar is measuring is how well he can 'spin', vs a choppier rider. Spinning is of course valuable in attaining super high cadence (think track).

 

[manos]

I just received my polar from a service.

They replaced the whole back cover, changed the battery and they made a pressure test. Total cost 17€

The repair took less than 24 hours.

The Polar CS600+ power is for me a very good training tool at low price.

I have it from 10 April 2007 and I have been driven with it for more than 18000Km with no problems

The only thing I don’t like is the Twist Lock system to mount the Polar Computer

On the bike

I hope that they will find a better lock system in the future ….

 

[bamavortex]

Since Polar fixed my power/cadence unit last year I have had no power of canence problems with my CS600. Power and cadence work all the time with no dropouts anymore, ever. When I first bought mine in Aug 2007 it was always dropping out and was very frustrating. I now have several thousand miles with the repaired unit and everything works great. The only problem I have had was after changing the lithium battery on the display unit a few months ago, the display has remained much dimmer and harder to see. I tried replacing the battery again and it is still dim, but everything is displayed and works. Is there anyway to increase the contrast? Maybe I just got two weak batteries. Anyone else have this problem?

Update time.

My family now owns two Polar CS600s, and they are both performing flawlessly.

I bought the second CS600 from a guy who claimed the power module just wouldn't work. He'd fiddled with it for a week, gave up and sold it to me for cheap. I installed it according to the book and the advice given on this forum and it's worked perfectly for the last month. As far as accuracy goes, I've compared both Polars to each other, to a Kurt Kinetic, to an Ergomo, and to the calibration curve on rollers. Power readings seem very accurate in all usable gear combinations. More importantly, the readings are very consistent, something that's hard to get with the Ergomo unless very frequent offset checks are done.

All in all, I'd have to say that the CS600 is by far the best bang for the buck in power meters, particularly since they can be gotten new on eBay for less than $500.

 

[jcjordan]

well two years with a unit and no problems with the power paddle. Did have to get the head fixed, but the Australian Distributer (Pursuit Performance) were fantasitic.

So happy I bought a second unit for my Time Trial Bike project

 

[J-V]

Hi, I am trying out a 2nd hand CS600 at the moment before deciding if worth buying. However I can't get any proper figures out from the power. Last night on the road is constantly stayed around 50-70 Watts. As I held approx 20mph average for the ride and I weigh 95kg I doubt this is correct. I am sure my position isn't that aero! Occassionally it would go up to 200-300 watts, but then trail off back to the 70 figure over about 30seconds. I am sure I have got the chain weight, length and span in correctly so does anyone have any tips on why it may be so far out. I have got the sensor close enough so it sucks chain down onto sensor whenever I stop pedalling so I don't think i can get it much closer. Any advice would be great. Otherwise I will tell the seller I am not interested and may rent some SRM's. Cheers Nick

If you are sure everything is set up properly (which it sounds like it probably is), I'd suspect a problem with that particular unit. Assuming no data dropouts during the ride (not that it matters), data drops are the only occasional hiccup I see these days, and it's not uncommon with any wireless system. Is the chain roughly in the longitudinal center of the 'paddle', when in the middle of the cassette?

If it were me, I'd steer clear.

-J\V

 

[goodboyr]

I've seen this kind of behaviour with old batteries that need to be changed. Do not use rechargeables. Best performance I've found is with the eveready lithium batteries. They last twice as long, and don't cause deterioration in power readings near the end of their life.

If you are sure everything is set up properly (which it sounds like it probably is), I'd suspect a problem with that particular unit. Assuming no data dropouts during the ride (not that it matters), data drops are the only occasional hiccup I see these days, and it's not uncommon with any wireless system. Is the chain roughly in the longitudinal center of the 'paddle', when in the middle of the cassette?

If it were me, I'd steer clear.

-J\V

 

[goodboyr]

There is a trick to adjusting contrast on the unit via the engineering diagnostic menu. Press all 4 outside buttons simultaneously. This will illuminate all the display elements. Then, first press and release the lower left button, then immediately press and release the upper right button. You should have a display that reads "Monitor", "CS05", "CS600-05" on the display. Now you can use the right side buttons to cycle through the various functions. When you get to the menu, go to Self Tests. Look for LCD, I think it's 2nd or 3rd option. Once in, hold Red button and use the +/Upper-right button to increase contrast.

Since Polar fixed my power/cadence unit last year I have had no power of canence problems with my CS600. Power and cadence work all the time with no dropouts anymore, ever. When I first bought mine in Aug 2007 it was always dropping out and was very frustrating. I now have several thousand miles with the repaired unit and everything works great. The only problem I have had was after changing the lithium battery on the display unit a few months ago, the display has remained much dimmer and harder to see. I tried replacing the battery again and it is still dim, but everything is displayed and works. Is there anyway to increase the contrast? Maybe I just got two weak batteries. Anyone else have this problem?