Questions for hitch type bike rack users

[SMS]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> It's also reasonable to expect that one watches where one is walking and
> that if you can't see, you use a flashlight.

I guess we have different views regarding the expectation that a vehicle
owner will act in a responsible manner.

You think it's just fine for steel bar to be sticking out into a traffic
lane of a parking lot where someone could easily walk into it, and I
think it's the vehicle owner's responsibility to not be an self-centered
idiot, and endanger innocent passers-by. I guess we'll have to agree to
disagree on which one of us is clueless.

 

[Rick]

On Mar 30, 7:22 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Rick wrote:
> >> Pat
> > Don't know if it folded or not, as it wasn't folded and I wasn't
> > addressing your use of a rack, it should have been folded without
> > bikes on it, or taken off, or parked differently.  It would have been
> > a hazard to an adult, nothing to do with a "small" child, my son is
> > only 7 inches shorter than me and it would have caught me in the
> > throat if I had been walking there.  A hitch only sticks out 6-8
> > inches max, a spare tire isn't much of an issue at all - it is a
> > factor of the distance the rack arms stick out that makes an empty
> > bike rack a potential danger, especially in the dark.
>
> I'm amazed that there are people that actually think that it's anyone
> but the vehicle owners fault when they leave a hitch rack arms sticking
> out of a parking space in the dark and someone that can't see it walks
> into it.
>
> Geez, how hard is it for the vehicle owner to fold down the arms? The
> rack instructions will always tell the owner to either fold down the
> arms when not in use to minimize the length of the rack, or to remove
> the rack completely when not in use. Both are prudent and common-sense
> actions to take to avoid injuring passers by that don't expect a steel
> bar sticking out two feet at torso level (or eye level for a kid).

Yep, I thought my danger/safety point was pretty non-controversial,
but it seems like the various groups here will go off on just about
any comment. "So what if it is dangerous", the pedestrian is at
fault.

I have only used my bike rack when going mountain bike riding, during
the daylight, and I felt concerned while riding about other people
when I forgot to lower the arms one time, and that someone like Tom
Sherman would be along using his laser range finder at 3 feet off the
ground and miss my arms at 4 feet and hit them while riding. Not
concerned about liability as seems to be the common comment about why
it is okay, but concerned that it could contribute to an accident to a
person of all things. Maybe I should just permanently mount a 3 foot
long spear on my hitch and see what I can harpoon!

Rick

 

[Roger Zoul]

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>
>> It's also reasonable to expect that one watches where one is walking and
>> that if you can't see, you use a flashlight.
>
> I guess we have different views regarding the expectation that a vehicle
> owner will act in a responsible manner.
>

No, the issue here is really that you can't follow an argument. I own a
hitch rack. I either fold it up to minimize it's footprint or I take it off
and put it in the trunk when I'm riding the bike.

I do that because I don't want the thing to get hit, jumped on, or to be an
inconvenience to others. However, that doesn't remove the responsibility of
others to be watching where they are going. And it doesn't make me
responsible for their lack of concern or silly behavior if they should walk
into it or be walking in some place there they cannot see and run into it.

> You think it's just fine for steel bar to be sticking out into a traffic
> lane of a parking lot where someone could easily walk into it, and I think
> it's the vehicle owner's responsibility to not be an self-centered idiot,
> and endanger innocent passers-by. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
> on which one of us is clueless.

Endangering an innocent person passing by would be to have the rack fall on
them unexpectedly, or something like that.

Many vehicles have hitchs and racks. Hence, it's no unreasonable to expect
things to be sticking out the rear of vehicles. People walking down the
street or in parking lots have an innate responsibility to see where they
are going before walking there. Just has drivers have a responsibility to
slow down in blind curves or in any situation where they don't have a clear
view of the road ahead.

It's one thing to talk about the pro's and con's of a rack....it's quite
another to start laying blame. You do much better with the former than the
latter. If you think one should stow a rack, fine. I do as well. Yet, I
draw the line at trying to say who's at fault. We all have innate
responsibility to watch out for our own safety.

 

[SMS]

Rick wrote:

> Yep, I thought my danger/safety point was pretty non-controversial,
> but it seems like the various groups here will go off on just about
> any comment. "So what if it is dangerous", the pedestrian is at
> fault.

I'm not sure if it's because they're trying to defend their own
irresponsible behavior, or if it's because they just like to argue. Some
people like to misuse the mantra of "personal responsibility" to attack
victims of stupid people doing stupid things.

Look at all the lawyer bashing and false statements over certain famous
cases where it turns out the defendant actually was at fault, i.e. the
McDonald's coffee case.

 

[[email protected]]

If someone walks into a hitch rack on a PARKED car it's the idiot
walking's fault!!!!!


On Mar 31, 9:36 am, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Rick wrote:
> > Yep, I thought my danger/safety point was pretty non-controversial,
> > but it seems like the various groups here will go off on just about
> > any comment.  "So what if it is dangerous", the pedestrian is at
> > fault.
>
> I'm not sure if it's because they're trying to defend their own
> irresponsible behavior, or if it's because they just like to argue. Some
> people like to misuse the mantra of "personal responsibility" to attack
> victims of stupid people doing stupid things.
>
> Look at all the lawyer bashing and false statements over certain famous
> cases where it turns out the defendant actually was at fault, i.e. the
> McDonald's coffee case.

 

[SMS]

On Mar 31, 12:35 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> If someone walks into a hitch rack on a PARKED car it's the idiot
> walking's fault!!!!!

Wow, five exclamation points. Impressive.

If the hitch rack's arms are folded down and not sticking out, then
indeed it's probably the pedestrian's fault. But what some clueless
people do is to leave the arms sticking out into the traffic lane of
the parking lot. At night, it's easy to not spot these thin black
objects sticking out at torso level. That's why the hitch rack
manufacturer's advise owners to fold down the arms, or remove the
rack, when not in use. The vehicle owner has a lot of liability should
someone injure themselves due to their negligence.

 

[Roger Zoul]

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote

> On Mar 31, 12:35 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> If someone walks into a hitch rack on a PARKED car it's the idiot
>> walking's fault!!!!!
>
> Wow, five exclamation points. Impressive.
>
> If the hitch rack's arms are folded down and not sticking out, then
> indeed it's probably the pedestrian's fault. But what some clueless
> people do is to leave the arms sticking out into the traffic lane of
> the parking lot. At night, it's easy to not spot these thin black
> objects sticking out at torso level. That's why the hitch rack
> manufacturer's advise owners to fold down the arms, or remove the
> rack, when not in use. The vehicle owner has a lot of liability should
> someone injure themselves due to their negligence.

Ok...you must have some case law or something to back up you continued
claims of who has liability. Why don't you provide it so we can get this
conversation over with?

 

[[email protected]]

Yes please back it up with case law. If there is liability I'll spend
my days off walking into back racks and making $$$$$. It would be
nice if the arms were folded but I doubt it absolves the pedestrian
from any responsibilty.

On Mar 31, 5:14 pm, "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SMS" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > On Mar 31, 12:35 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> >> If someone walks into a hitch rack on a PARKED car it's the idiot
> >> walking's fault!!!!!
>
> > Wow, five exclamation points. Impressive.
>
> > If the hitch rack's arms are folded down and not sticking out, then
> > indeed it's probably the pedestrian's fault. But what some clueless
> > people do is to leave the arms sticking out into the traffic lane of
> > the parking lot. At night, it's easy to not spot these thin black
> > objects sticking out at torso level. That's why the hitch rack
> > manufacturer's advise owners to fold down the arms, or remove the
> > rack, when not in use. The vehicle owner has a lot of liability should
> > someone injure themselves due to their negligence.
>
> Ok...you must have some case law or something to back up you continued
> claims of who has liability. Why don't you provide it so we can get this
> conversation over with?

 

[SMS]

[email protected] wrote:
> Yes please back it up with case law. If there is liability I'll spend
> my days off walking into back racks and making $$$$$. It would be
> nice if the arms were folded but I doubt it absolves the pedestrian
> from any responsibilty.

Wait, so you think every insurance settlement for negligence is the
result of a trial that would be indexed in some sort record of cases. It
doesn't work that way. The insurance company always settles.

You need to come up with a better response than that!

 

[[email protected]]

Cite one settlement then. Someone a knowledgable as you can do
that!!!!! Or you cant because a person would sound pretty stupid
stating "I didnt look where I was going and walked into a rack" and
insurance wouldgive zilch

On Mar 31, 6:06 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Yes please back it up with case law.  If there is liability I'll spend
> > my days off walking into back racks and making $$$$$.  It would be
> > nice if the arms were folded but I doubt it absolves the pedestrian
> > from any responsibilty.
>
> Wait, so you think every insurance settlement for negligence is the
> result of a trial that would be indexed in some sort record of cases. It
> doesn't work that way. The insurance company always settles.
>
> You need to come up with a better response than that!

 

[Tom Sherman]

Rick B? wrote:
> On Mar 30, 7:22 pm, SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Rick wrote:
>>>> Pat
>>> Don't know if it folded or not, as it wasn't folded and I wasn't
>>> addressing your use of a rack, it should have been folded without
>>> bikes on it, or taken off, or parked differently. It would have been
>>> a hazard to an adult, nothing to do with a "small" child, my son is
>>> only 7 inches shorter than me and it would have caught me in the
>>> throat if I had been walking there. A hitch only sticks out 6-8
>>> inches max, a spare tire isn't much of an issue at all - it is a
>>> factor of the distance the rack arms stick out that makes an empty
>>> bike rack a potential danger, especially in the dark.
>> I'm amazed that there are people that actually think that it's anyone
>> but the vehicle owners fault when they leave a hitch rack arms sticking
>> out of a parking space in the dark and someone that can't see it walks
>> into it.
>>
>> Geez, how hard is it for the vehicle owner to fold down the arms? The
>> rack instructions will always tell the owner to either fold down the
>> arms when not in use to minimize the length of the rack, or to remove
>> the rack completely when not in use. Both are prudent and common-sense
>> actions to take to avoid injuring passers by that don't expect a steel
>> bar sticking out two feet at torso level (or eye level for a kid).
>
> Yep, I thought my danger/safety point was pretty non-controversial,
> but it seems like the various groups here will go off on just about
> any comment. "So what if it is dangerous", the pedestrian is at
> fault.
>
WELCOME TO USENET!

> I have only used my bike rack when going mountain bike riding, during
> the daylight, and I felt concerned while riding about other people
> when I forgot to lower the arms one time, and that someone like Tom
> Sherman would be along using his laser range finder at 3 feet off the
> ground and miss my arms at 4 feet and hit them while riding.

Hey, on my lowracer I can ride under a 4-foot high bar.

> Not
> concerned about liability as seems to be the common comment about why
> it is okay, but concerned that it could contribute to an accident to a
> person of all things. Maybe I should just permanently mount a 3 foot
> long spear on my hitch and see what I can harpoon!
>
Cool idea!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
> If someone walks into a hitch rack on a PARKED car it's the idiot
> walking's fault!!!!!
>
This may be the first time I have ever agreed with Little Jimmy.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful